@ 2012-11-02 2:34 PM (#8900 - in reply to #8828) (#8900) Top | |
Posts: 139 Country : Estonia | TiiT posted @ 2012-11-02 2:34 PM Hi, It seems great idea of the theme but I also have few questions. 1. Puzzle no 9 Little killer with extra region: There are several extra regions shaded grey. If they touch each other and my printer doesn't print these colors differently enough, then I have a problem. Is there anything I can do to avoid it? 2. Puzzle no 10 Twin Murderers: Instructions say that the pattern of numbers entered in the left and the right grid are identical. If patterns are identical, then it doesn't mean that there have to be the same numbers. Let me explain! In the IB, you can easily switch 2-s and 3-s in the first grid and the pattern really is the same as in the other grid. Is there a double solution in IB, or do you mean that the numbers (not pattern) have to be the same in both grids? (I hope my point is clear). TiiT |
@ 2012-11-02 2:45 PM (#8901 - in reply to #8900) (#8901) Top | |
Posts: 25 Country : South Korea | Kwaka posted @ 2012-11-02 2:45 PM Hi. Here are answers. 1. Puzzle no 9 Little Killer with ER You don't worry about that. They don't touch each other. I'm so sure that you won't meet that color problem. 2. Puzzle no 10 Twin Murderers Actually I used an instruction of Puzzle no 18 Double Murder of USPC 07. (Country using English as a mother language) Sorry to you if you confused about that. I mean that the numbers have to be the same in both grids. Kwak Edited by Kwaka 2012-11-02 2:48 PM |
@ 2012-11-02 4:01 PM (#8902 - in reply to #8828) (#8902) Top | |
Posts: 139 Country : Estonia | TiiT posted @ 2012-11-02 4:01 PM Thanks, It's clear now :) TiiT |
@ 2012-11-02 6:09 PM (#8903 - in reply to #8828) (#8903) Top | |
Posts: 774 Country : India | rakesh_rai posted @ 2012-11-02 6:09 PM Do we have online solving enabled for this test? |
@ 2012-11-02 6:11 PM (#8904 - in reply to #8903) (#8904) Top | |
Country : India | Administrator posted @ 2012-11-02 6:11 PM rakesh_rai - 2012-11-02 6:09 PM Sorry, forgot to post, there won't be any online solving. It is because of the last sudoku "Prison Break". Do we have online solving enabled for this test? May be we should explore, if we should enable online solving even in cases where 1 or 2 sudokus are not solvable online. |
@ 2012-11-02 11:00 PM (#8905 - in reply to #8828) (#8905) Top | |
Country : India | Administrator posted @ 2012-11-02 11:00 PM Announcements• Password protected pdf is uploaded. It has 15 pages. Each page has one sudoku. The Pentominoes for Prison Break are in separate page. There is no cover page. • There is no online solving in this test. Edited by Kwaka 2012-11-03 11:12 AM |
@ 2012-11-02 11:13 PM (#8906 - in reply to #8905) (#8906) Top | |
Country : India | Administrator posted @ 2012-11-02 11:13 PM List of clarifications after IB release - 1. (14) Prison Break - The numbers under the Pentomino pieces are the only digits that are smaller than the given numbers inside the pieces, that can appear in the pieces. Numbers given below must appear at least once and can repeat. 2. (5) Fake Treasure - Numbers can repeat in the shaded area. 3. (10) Twin Murderers - Numbers can't repeat inside cages. The numbers have to be same in all corresponding cells of both the grids. 4. (11) Clue - There is only 1 line in the middle 9x3 area, but the length is unknown. So Arithmetic Sequence(if it is determined to be that) has to be to definition (a sequence of numbers such that the difference between the consecutive terms is constant) |
@ 2012-11-03 6:52 PM (#8907 - in reply to #8828) (#8907) Top | |
Posts: 164 Country : Slovakia | greenhorn posted @ 2012-11-03 6:52 PM 15 pages of the PB? It is too much, don´t you think? I believe that two grids per paper are always enough. Also big grids slow the solving, because it is not easy to look at the whole grid with one view. Anyway I really enjoyed some of the puzzles. Those I have solved in time were very tricky and nice for me. But I spent just 7 minutes until my printer deal with such a huge amount of papers (because it froze I wasn´t able to rewrite the sudokus on paper). |
@ 2012-11-03 7:23 PM (#8908 - in reply to #8907) (#8908) Top | |
Posts: 25 Country : South Korea | Kwaka posted @ 2012-11-03 7:23 PM I'm very sorry about that. I hadn't thought of that problem because I usually print out 2 pages per sheet when I take this kind of test. Anyway, thanks for enjoying the test. |
@ 2012-11-03 7:34 PM (#8909 - in reply to #8908) (#8909) Top | |
Country : India | debmohanty posted @ 2012-11-03 7:34 PM Kwaka - 2012-11-03 7:23 PM I think password-protected-pdfs for the tests should be designed such that players should just "Print" the pdfs without thinking / trying to find out a) whether I should print the first page b) whether I should print 2 pages per sheet etc. They should just press Control + P, and hit enter. I hadn't thought of that problem because I usually print out 2 pages per sheet when I take this kind of test. That is the reason almost all LMI tests (except annual contests) password-protected-pdfs don't have cover page. But we do not enforce any other formatting criteria. Having just one grid per page is too much in my opinion. But as we saw in FF2, there were lot of complaints because the grid sizes were small with 2 grids per page. |
@ 2012-11-03 9:20 PM (#8910 - in reply to #8828) (#8910) Top | |
Posts: 1806 Country : India | prasanna16391 posted @ 2012-11-03 9:20 PM Some of these, e.g. Clue, Prison Break are better on a bigger grid for markings IMO. Also, Fake Treasure and Twin Murderers are fit into 1 page. So you're left with just a few that might have been smaller, and still not too small. The size of grid differs from person to person and adding to what Deb said about last weekend's test, its difficult to set the right size. I think viewing the entire grid shouldn't be a big problem, if it does decrease the speed by a little amount, its the same for everyone. |
@ 2012-11-03 9:58 PM (#8911 - in reply to #8910) (#8911) Top | |
Posts: 191 Country : The Netherlands | Richard posted @ 2012-11-03 9:58 PM I enjoyed the test, thanks for writing it! I have my own habits in printing for tests. My printer is veeeeeery sloooooow, although it is not an old one. For that reason, I decide before I hit the start button, which puzzle I want to start with, and I print out first only the page that contains this puzzle. I choose for a draft print to increase the speed for this page. It then still takes about 45 seconds before I can start solving. While the printer is busy, I hit the print-button again, to print the entire file, this time in a better quality. By the time I have finished my first puzzle, the entire printout is ready, or at least enough pages to choose from to continue. I always have difficulties with the huge grids. I think mainly because I am not used to it. When creating puzzles, I always make cells with a size of about 1 centimeter, which is not too small so you can write notes in it and it is also not too large. When cells have a size of (about) one centimeter, you can easily fit two puzzles on a page, especially when the instructions don't ask much space, what can be done using a smaller font size. Richard |
@ 2012-11-03 10:06 PM (#8912 - in reply to #8907) (#8912) Top | |
Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2012-11-03 10:06 PM Thanks for the very nice test. There are some really nice sudokus and also some interesting new ideas. Territorial conflict was great, even if I think that I should have solved it faster. I like when you have to think globally and not only locally to solve grids. This was a very good example (so simple when you understand what is the trick...). Little multiplication killer was probably my favourite: a very clever construction, very nice solving path. Ditto with little killer with extraregions. The logic of jail sudoku is also very interesting. greenhorn - 2012-11-03 6:52 PM 15 pages of the PB? It is too much, don´t you think? I believe that two grids per paper are always enough. Also big grids slow the solving, because it is not easy to look at the whole grid with one view. Anyway I really enjoyed some of the puzzles. Those I have solved in time were very tricky and nice for me. But I spent just 7 minutes until my printer deal with such a huge amount of papers (because it froze I wasn´t able to rewrite the sudokus on paper). There are lot of online tournament that have 1 grid each page. Lot of previous monthly tests; sudokucup has also actually this format, with 15 sudokus, one per page. Last WSC had also this format, even with bigger grids. I think there is nothing wrong with having only one sudoku on each page. This is a matter of comfort for each player, I know some players who like very big grids, others, like you, prefer to have smaller grid (2 grids per page). Sometimes it's not convenient to have 2 grids per page, when rules are complicated it can represent a big text. When you have outside clues, you must have even smaller grids, which is ok if players don't have to write lot of pencilmarks inside the grid. Here I see not matter to complain about the format. The only thing is that the pdf is perhaps a bit too big, and it can also have an influence on the printing process I think. Fred |
@ 2012-11-04 12:18 AM (#8913 - in reply to #8828) (#8913) Top | |
Posts: 164 Country : Slovakia | greenhorn posted @ 2012-11-04 12:18 AM Kwaka, don´t worry, it is just my opinion and other players should not have such a problem. The most important thing is that your puzzles are really well made and logically solvable. The question about format and sizes needs to be discussed among more players. I agree with Prasanna that some puzzles need to be big enough in case of pencilmarks. But do we need all the instructions next to grids even when the IB is released few days before the competition? Fred, I went through some of that contests and I talked with Karel about format of Sudokucup´s PB. Last few times I haven´t participated at SC and helped Karel with presolving and we still have different opinion on the question of format. The number of pages and the size of grids are ones of the criteria that are crucial for me when deciding whether I will participate or not. It is different at the WSC, because I am not the person who prints the booklets (during the competition as in LMI tests). It is issue of organisers to chose the easiest and cheapes way of printing. In the USA there was only one grid per page (width of the cell was 1 cm), but the size was normal, not as the croatian ones (1,65 cm). However I think that the hungarian puzzle booklets were also clear enough even when they contain usually two grids per page (0,9 cm). Richard, thank you for sharing your experiences. It seems to be good idea. Edited by greenhorn 2012-11-04 12:20 AM |
@ 2012-11-04 1:27 AM (#8914 - in reply to #8828) (#8914) Top | |
Posts: 1806 Country : India | prasanna16391 posted @ 2012-11-04 1:27 AM Well as far as the instructions go, I think many people would like the instructions there to refer to at times. Personally I do that for some of the innovative variants on tests. At most we can just advise future authors to make an instruction-less version of the PB, but only if the one with instructions has a big number of pages. Anyway, the test was great for me too. My favorite was Little Killer with ER and the way that the Extra Regions were designed to play into it. Other favorites include basically the same as Fred's choices, but I'll add Weighted Killer in there. The theming of the Pentomino pieces in Prison Break was nice too. Performance-wise, I forgot to submit Clue Sudoku within the time limit, so I think my ranking's taken a hit there. It still seems to be an ok score looking at the others now. Thanks to Kwaka and Spica! |
@ 2012-11-06 2:33 AM (#8921 - in reply to #8828) (#8921) Top | |
Posts: 31 Country : United States | joshuazucker posted @ 2012-11-06 2:33 AM A beautiful test, and I loved the multiplication killer and the jail - very nice solving there. I finished the jail just a minute too late! I was very frustrated to spend a lot of time on the killer with doubled cells only to end up with a mistake in my solution. There were a lot of nice things to uncover in that puzzle but it still seemed very difficult. I should have spent my time elsewhere -- or maybe now looking at it after the test I'll see a better way to think about it. |
@ 2012-11-06 5:44 AM (#8922 - in reply to #8828) (#8922) Top | |
Country : India | Administrator posted @ 2012-11-06 5:44 AM With no more participants, Fugitive Warrant is now over. Password removed from pdf. |
@ 2012-11-06 6:12 AM (#8923 - in reply to #8828) (#8923) Top | |
Posts: 25 Country : South Korea | Kwaka posted @ 2012-11-06 6:12 AM Thanks for enjoying our test. It was very good experience to be an author of LMI test. Next time I'll consider more about size of puzzle. Also, few more things. Little Multiplication Killer : First time, there is no given number inside of the grid. It can be still solvable without it. Little Killer with ER : Also, the number in R9C1 which is 7 was not given first time. It can be still solvable without it. (But one can know the sum of R9C1 and R1C9 using the sum of remainders which I saw at the test 'Killer Shootout'. ) Last, I have a few questions. How do you make a 'nonconsecutive sudoku' ? Do you use a solution which is easily gotten from other problems, or just use a computer when you make it? Same question for 'Antiknight', 'Untouch'. Somebody help me to improve my ability to make. Kwak Edited by Kwaka 2012-11-06 6:13 AM |
@ 2012-11-06 8:51 AM (#8924 - in reply to #8828) (#8924) Top | |
Country : India | Administrator posted @ 2012-11-06 8:51 AM Congratulations to Kota for his win. It is hard to believe that this his first win in an LMI test, but he has been in top 3 in each of last 7 sudoku tests, except one. |
@ 2012-11-06 10:42 AM (#8928 - in reply to #8828) (#8928) Top | |
Posts: 31 Country : United States | joshuazucker posted @ 2012-11-06 10:42 AM I would love some solution tips on the weighted killer. I did eventually get it but it took me a very long time! |
@ 2012-11-06 2:33 PM (#8929 - in reply to #8828) (#8929) Top | |
Country : India | Administrator posted @ 2012-11-06 2:33 PM Link to Solutions booklet |
@ 2012-11-06 9:02 PM (#8930 - in reply to #8928) (#8930) Top | |
Posts: 3 Country : South Korea | Spica posted @ 2012-11-06 9:02 PM joshuazucker// Thanks for enjoy our Sudokus. Weighted Killer(Spoiler!!) : See http://home.postech.ac.kr/~meso/sudoku/weighted_killer.html When I made this problem, Kwaka found that solution route very quickly. That's why we give (relatively) low points on this hard problem. Sorry for that Spoiler: show Once you add the cages at two bottom rows(with additional cell R7C8), then you can get the clue. Since R8C5 and R8C6 can not be both 1 at the same time, the sum 96 is the minimum possible value. Hence R9C1 = R7C8 = 1 and we have a multiple set {R8C5, R8C6} = {1,2}. That is the starting point I intended. If it is not enough, the sum of first row also gives you many informations. |
@ 2012-11-07 1:56 AM (#8931 - in reply to #8930) (#8931) Top | |
Posts: 31 Country : United States | joshuazucker posted @ 2012-11-07 1:56 AM Yeah, I got stuck after finding the 389 in the middle of the top and finding the shaded 1s and 2s in the bottom rows ... what next? |
@ 2012-11-07 6:48 AM (#8935 - in reply to #8931) (#8935) Top | |
Posts: 3 Country : South Korea | Spica posted @ 2012-11-07 6:48 AM |
@ 2012-11-07 9:02 AM (#8936 - in reply to #8828) (#8936) Top | |
Posts: 31 Country : United States | joshuazucker posted @ 2012-11-07 9:02 AM Thanks for all the help! You're still earlier in the solve than the spot where it got hard for me. |