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Administrator
   
Country : India | |
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Administrator
Country : India | Some notes about April Contest 2020Please note this contest will have a slightly different format than regular LMI tests.
Key differences from regular LMI tests:
• There is no IB (i.e. no Instructions Booklet). If you have any questions about any puzzle, please ask here.
• The PB (Puzzle Booklet) does not have any password.
• You can download the pdf and start solving. Login at the contest page to start submitting.
• There is no time limit. You can submit until the contest ends.
• There will be some optimizer puzzles. Other puzzles will be very hard (compared to regular LMI tests)
• Same scores will have same rank (i.e. early submissions do not count towards rank)
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Administrator
Country : India | Puzzle Booklet
The Puzzle Booklet is available now.
The contest has started now.
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-08 4:50 PM The example does not comply with "A barrier must be placed between two vertically or horizontally adjacent cells if they contain consecutive digits." in at least 4 pairs. Is it correct that it is not necessary to have a bar bewetwewn every such pair. |
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Puzzle_Maestro
Posts: 25
Country : United Kingdom | My guess is that they aren't placed because they are irrelevant to the solve, i.e. not in the same row or column as any clue. |
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rob
Posts: 170
Country : Germany | rob posted @ 2020-04-08 5:58 PM For puzzle 10, what's a street? Any stretch of white cells of length at least 2? Or do they have to go from one end to the other end of the grid? |
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Administrator
Country : India | Puzzle_Maestro - 2020-04-08 5:47 PM
My guess is that they aren't placed because they are irrelevant to the solve, i.e. not in the same row or column as any clue.
That's correct. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | rob - 2020-04-08 5:58 PM
For puzzle 10, what's a street? Any stretch of white cells of length at least 2? Or do they have to go from one end to the other end of the grid?
Any stretch of white cells of length at least 2. |
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forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | in puzzle 3 hangers there is a sentence " if there are less than two circles in a row or column, there shall be no clue in that row/column".
Is the opposite also true? I mean, if in a row/column there are no clues, in that row/column there are less than 2 circles?Or could it be that clues for a row/column are omitted? |
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Puzzle_Maestro
Posts: 25
Country : United Kingdom | All rows and columns are fully clued, i.e. if a row or column does not have any clues, then there are less than 2 circles in that row/column. |
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rob
Posts: 170
Country : Germany | rob posted @ 2020-04-09 2:04 AM Are the given loop fragments in puzzle 9 of length 1, or could they be part of segments of length 2? |
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Mihalich
Posts: 26
Country : Ukraine | Puzzle 11:
1) Can the corners of the cards touch?
2) Can diamonds go one on top of the other? |
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athin
Posts: 11
Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-09 7:58 AM Puzzle 5: Should all dominoes be connected? |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | rob - 2020-04-09 2:04 AM
Are the given loop fragments in puzzle 9 of length 1, or could they be part of segments of length 2?
These fragments can be of any length. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | Mihalich - 2020-04-09 2:32 AM
Puzzle 11:
1) Can the corners of the cards touch?
2) Can diamonds go one on top of the other?
1 ) Yes
2 ) In the example, cards 3 and 5 share a common diamond. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | athin - 2020-04-09 7:58 AM
Puzzle 5: Should all dominoes be connected?
It's possible. |
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Kithyane
Posts: 49
Country : France | Puzzle 8 : the 1-2-3-4-5 bottom clue line doesn't go til the upper left end (it stops 2 cells before). Is this normal or a display error ? |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-09 3:35 PM In puzzle 2, a table displays some letters and their values. Is this an illustration or a real mapping? As I see it, it does appear to be illustrative as many of the slots don't have words that satisfy 1 = A ,P, R. I have no way to know unless I understand the rules well. There is no example either
Edited by anurag 2020-04-09 3:50 PM
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-09 4:02 PM Streets of 1x1 are allowed?
Is this a town puzzle with 2x2 white areas not permissible? Or the white strips must be 1XN when evaliating the score? There is no clear demarcation in the description between puzzle rules and score evaluation.
Edited by anurag 2020-04-09 4:11 PM
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pranavmanu
Posts: 55
Country : India | In puzzle 2, the mapping of 1 - A,P,R given doesn't seem to fit the grid. Is it applicable to the grid or given as an example? |
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mstang
Posts: 74
Country : United States | mstang posted @ 2020-04-09 7:46 PM I think the given letters are part of the puzzle, not just an example. Remember that not every name is going to be used. |
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pranavmanu
Posts: 55
Country : India | Ah,missed that. Thank you for the clarification! |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-09 8:04 PM Not every name is used, but every slot needs to be filled in. There seem to be no names from the list matching the slots. |
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rob
Posts: 170
Country : Germany | rob posted @ 2020-04-09 8:50 PM I've solved puzzle 2, it's fine. |
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Kithyane
Posts: 49
Country : France | Puzzle 9 : what does "passing through all rows and columns" mean for the loop ? In the example, the loop doesn't use the top line of the grid at all... |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-09 9:11 PM Thanks, for some reason I was thinking consecutive letters should be the same if the numbers in the cells are equal.
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WA1729
Posts: 62
Country : United States | WA1729 posted @ 2020-04-10 12:27 AM Puzzle 11: "...it is possible to uniquely restore their contours." Does the assignment of numbers to cards have to be unique, or is it enough to uniquely specify the nine 3x5 borders of the cards? |
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forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | In puzzle 10, I am nut sure whether I can consider a solution as valid if it is the only way of respecting the rules and the clues. Can Riad (or any of the organizers) check the solution I have currently filed and tell me if it is valid and unique?
Edited by forcolin 2020-04-10 7:49 AM
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-10 9:55 AM Puzzle 10: Is this a town puzzle with 2x2 white areas not permissible? Or the white strips must be 1XN when evaluating the score? There is no clear demarcation in the description between puzzle rules and score evaluation. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Updated Puzzle Booklet
An updated version of the Puzzle Booklet is available now.
Changes:
Puzzle 9 : Example fixed
Puzzle 10: Rules updated
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | WA1729 - 2020-04-10 12:27 AM
Puzzle 11: "...it is possible to uniquely restore their contours." Does the assignment of numbers to cards have to be unique, or is it enough to uniquely specify the nine 3x5 borders of the cards?
The reviewer should clearly define the borders of the nine cards and their numerical values. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | forcolin - 2020-04-10 7:29 AM
In puzzle 10, I am nut sure whether I can consider a solution as valid if it is the only way of respecting the rules and the clues. Can Riad (or any of the organizers) check the solution I have currently filed and tell me if it is valid and unique?
I was sent your solution, it is not valid. Some rectangles that you were supposed to declare dark can be declared completely white. You need to get a solution without 2x2 white fragments. You use this condition as given in advance. This is incorrect. |
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Mihalich
Posts: 26
Country : Ukraine | Puzzle 7.
For numbers with cells, the use of rules a) OR b) is true. If there is a cell where the rules are applied a) AND b) is this true or is it wrong? |
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pranavmanu
Posts: 55
Country : India | In the town puzzle mini example, going by the definition of a street being a stretch of white cells of length 2 and width 1, I can make out 6 streets in the solution for it. But the answer key gives it as 4, so have i understood it wrong?Or is there a mistake in the example's key? |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 2:30 PM Someone kindly rephrase that answer, as I cannot understand any of it. I have already submitted a solution and I am pretty sure I understand what is expected. But, this new piece of information makes me believe that I may still be missing something though it is very unlikely. Organizers, either confirm that my solution follows the rules, or please confirm what is mentioned in that last reply by the author.
A slightly larger example grid might clear any doubts ( "You use this condition as given in advance" - he meant 'used' OR 'need to use'). The language seems to be the source of all confusion here. Reviewers have to step up their efforts.
Edited by anurag 2020-04-11 2:34 PM
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 2:37 PM Count only those strips that are bounded by edges or rectangles. Example is fine. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 4:14 PM Anderson: Interesting. I wonder how the two things you mentioned are different. In my opinion, when one of the two is met, the other is too, automatically (note that I am not starting to solve this puzzle yet so I am not thinking enough). Perhaps I am missing something.
Secondly, I am not sure if your query (and the authors' reply) were from the answer key standpoint or the solve itself. If you noticed, the example's answer key does not include any 'numerical assignment' whatever that means.
Uniquely restoring could just require that the grid be cut uniquely with no more than one assignment (which equates to card placement, and hence I don't see why the two things are separate) possible.
Lastly, if indeed, as Riad mentions, the competitor (or reviewer as he calls it) has to specify the borders, how are we supposed to do it? There is no such assistance provided with the instructions. And did the reviewers ('reviewers' here means reviewers, not competitors) miss mentioning that in the file?
Edited by anurag 2020-04-11 4:25 PM
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Puzlifouk
Posts: 67
Country : France | Hello everyone, Hello Riad,
I am extremely happy to face this contest again, which is for me the best event of the year!
And yet, because of the confinement, I forgot that it was the period and I missed the start. Why didn't you remind us earlier in a post that the start was coming? I'm really disappointed for that ...
Take care of you all. |
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SP1
Posts: 8
Country : Japan | SP1 posted @ 2020-04-11 5:12 PM Puzzle 10:
I think the definition of "streets" is ambiguous.
To clarify the definition, I consider a following 7x7 example:
~~~~##~
~##~##~
~##~##~
~~~~~~~
###~##~
###~##~
###~~~~
~ means white cell and # means dark cell.
I guess there are 6 streets in this grid.
detail:
R1C1 -> R1C4
R4C1 -> R4C7
R7C4 -> R7C7
R1C1 -> R4C1
R1C4 -> R7C4
R1C7 -> R7C7
Is this interpretation correct? |
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panista
Posts: 2
Country : Japan | panista posted @ 2020-04-11 5:28 PM Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid? |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 5:41 PM panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM
Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?
I had asked the same question in an earlier post. Obviously, this restriction has to be a part of the Town puzzle and not just the answer entry, as otherwise it would make the puzzle trivial. However, the phrase "The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells" confused me as it was incorrectly stated. The reviewers should make some effort to rephrase it to "The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells".
But, it remains to be seen what the organizers confirm. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | Mihalich - 2020-04-10 11:36 PM
Puzzle 7.
For numbers with cells, the use of rules a) OR b) is true. If there is a cell where the rules are applied a) AND b) is this true or is it wrong?
If both a ) and b ) can be applied, you can choose any of them. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | pranavmanu - 2020-04-11 12:21 PM
In the town puzzle mini example, going by the definition of a street being a stretch of white cells of length 2 and width 1, I can make out 6 streets in the solution for it. But the answer key gives it as 4, so have i understood it wrong?Or is there a mistake in the example's key?
In the example, there are 4 streets with a length of 4 cells each. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | anurag - 2020-04-11 2:30 PM
Someone kindly rephrase that answer, as I cannot understand any of it. I have already submitted a solution and I am pretty sure I understand what is expected. But, this new piece of information makes me believe that I may still be missing something though it is very unlikely. Organizers, either confirm that my solution follows the rules, or please confirm what is mentioned in that last reply by the author.
A slightly larger example grid might clear any doubts ( "You use this condition as given in advance" - he meant 'used' OR 'need to use'). The language seems to be the source of all confusion here. Reviewers have to step up their efforts.
Take a look at an example of the Town puzzle. Let's delete the given digit 2. Stefano assumed that the solution would be with a dark square. But the verifier (Deb or I ) can declare the middle of the example white. The digit 2 is necessary for the uniqueness of the solution. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | Puzlifouk - 2020-04-11 5:03 PM
Hello everyone, Hello Riad,
I am extremely happy to face this contest again, which is for me the best event of the year!
And yet, because of the confinement, I forgot that it was the period and I missed the start. Why didn't you remind us earlier in a post that the start was coming? I'm really disappointed for that ...
Take care of you all.
Thank you for your kind words! |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | SP1 - 2020-04-11 5:12 PM
Puzzle 10:
I think the definition of "streets" is ambiguous.
To clarify the definition, I consider a following 7x7 example:
~~~~##~
~##~##~
~##~##~
~~~~~~~
###~##~
###~##~
###~~~~
~ means white cell and # means dark cell.
I guess there are 6 streets in this grid.
detail:
R1C1 -> R1C4
R4C1 -> R4C7
R7C4 -> R7C7
R1C1 -> R4C1
R1C4 -> R7C4
R1C7 -> R7C7
Is this interpretation correct?
Correct! |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM
Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?
Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution. |
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pranavmanu
Posts: 55
Country : India | Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 5:55 PM
Take a look at an example of the Town puzzle. Let's delete the given digit 2. Stefano assumed that the solution would be with a dark square. But the verifier (Deb or I) can declare the middle of the example white. The digit 2 is necessary for the uniqueness of the solution.
But the rules of the puzzle state no 2*2 area can be completely white, which ensures that middle of the mini example has to be a 2*2 block of shaded cells!!,based on the other 0 clues. They cant be taken as white as that is not even a solution in the first place.I dont see how uniqueness comes into the picture here?? How is the outside clue 2 essential as per the rules?
Also, going by your statement,every row or column that has shaded cells should be clued with an outside digit, or else they will be assumed by you as white?
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 6:26 PM Prnav: That's the whole point! If you read my first query regarding this puzzle, it was there to verify the same thing, whether the 2x2 constraint has to be considered during the design (and I am sure it has to be). But now, the author's statement implies NOT. Which is surprising. Apparently nice and easy puzzle, but so much discussion surrounding it. |
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athin
Posts: 11
Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-11 6:56 PM Puzzle 10:
I'm pretty confident about my understanding of puzzle 10, so I may rephrase the definition of streets as: "if you treat the final board as a crossword, then the street is a single word, so the number of street will be the number of words in this crossword."
And also, I have to agree that without 2 in the example, the solution should be unique as there shouldn't be any 2x2 of white cells. The proposed "alternative solution" fails this constraint.
This is my opinion btw, surely it will be great for the organizers to clarify this. |
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athin
Posts: 11
Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-11 6:58 PM Puzzle 11:
If for example I only use 5 rows x 10 columns table, should I just put only the contents in row 1 to 5? And should I just put 10 characters in one row? |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 7:13 PM I can't imagine what the currently stated version of the Town puzzle asks us to do, if it is different from what I and many others are confident that it is. |
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Puzlifouk
Posts: 67
Country : France | Puzzle 2: the answer format is quite strange. Why from right to left. And it is from right to left for the first diagonal too ? Or you mean from to bottom, for the two diagonals ? |
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Puzlifouk
Posts: 67
Country : France | Oops, sorry. It's explained on the answering form ... |
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SP1
Posts: 8
Country : Japan | SP1 posted @ 2020-04-11 9:08 PM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM
panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM
Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?
Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution.
Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"...
My former interpretation is as follows:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules:
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
(<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule )
Conditions for optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
(<- exactly "Clouds" rules )
Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!! )
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Conditions of the optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify! |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 9:20 PM This has been asked several times, but not clarified yet. Looks like the reviewers did not care to check the optimizers. While I am sure it has to be the first version, the author himself has turned it around. The second version is trivial and makes no sense. If that is what is expected, I don't get it, and don't like the puzzle. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | SP1 - 2020-04-11 9:08 PM
Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM
panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM
Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?
Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution.
Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"...
My former interpretation is as follows:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules:
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
(<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule )
Conditions for optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
(<- exactly "Clouds" rules )
Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!! )
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Conditions of the optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify!
I now understand where the questions came from. In the September Contest 2010, I published the Town puzzle. When solving this puzzle, we used the condition that the white area does not have 2x2 fragments. I repeated the name of the puzzle in 2020, but without looking back at the previous work. This point probably confused the solvers. In this April Contest, I suggest using the second option that you have described. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 10:15 PM As I said a couple of times today, the second version does not appeal to me. I reject it, unless someone can explain how it works. Also, I don't have my question about my subbmission answered yet. I think the admins are not available today to send you my submission. |
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SP1
Posts: 8
Country : Japan | SP1 posted @ 2020-04-11 10:40 PM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 10:11 PM
SP1 - 2020-04-11 9:08 PM
Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM
panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM
Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?
Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution.
Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"...
My former interpretation is as follows:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules:
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
(<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule )
Conditions for optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
(<- exactly "Clouds" rules )
Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!! )
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Conditions of the optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify!
I now understand where the questions came from. In the September Contest 2010, I published the Town puzzle. When solving this puzzle, we used the condition that the white area does not have 2x2 fragments. I repeated the name of the puzzle in 2020, but without looking back at the previous work. This point probably confused the solvers. In this April Contest, I suggest using the second option that you have described.
I see how it is. OK, now I consider this optimization by using the latter option. Thank you for your reply! |
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WTM
Posts: 4
Country : Czech Republic | WTM posted @ 2020-04-12 2:28 AM Puzzle 8: As I understand it, the sides along the entire grid don't need to be filled in, is that correct? Otherwise it would have no solutions, if I'm looking correctly. But still, even if they don't all have to be filled in, can at least some of them be filled in? |
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athin
Posts: 11
Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-12 4:56 AM Oh well, I already had a nice construction for the first interpretation, now I have to update it (or maybe scrapped it).. Hope this kind of misunderstanding doesn't come in later contests.
To clarify again, the solution of the town puzzle may have 2x2 cells. But if it happens, then it will get absolute 0 points. Is this correct? |
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mstang
Posts: 74
Country : United States | mstang posted @ 2020-04-12 6:44 AM Puzzle 9: Are Fillomino rules in effect, where polyominoes of the same size must not be orthogonally adjacent? Or can they be adjacent? |
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Kithyane
Posts: 49
Country : France | mstang - 2020-04-12 2:44 AM
Puzzle 9: Are Fillomino rules in effect, where polyominoes of the same size must not be orthogonally adjacent? Or can they be adjacent?
They can be adjacent. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-12 12:47 PM LOL.. sloppy work. I suspect the testers didn't have a look at the file. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-12 12:49 PM Yes, 2x2 areas are fine, but give no points. 1xN streets will earn you points. I suppose the admin has vowed not to reply to any of the questions, but to take down posts.
Edited by anurag 2020-04-12 12:50 PM
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athin
Posts: 11
Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-12 2:04 PM athin - 2020-04-11 6:58 PM
Puzzle 11:
If for example I only use 5 rows x 10 columns table, should I just put only the contents in row 1 to 5? And should I just put 10 characters in one row?
Sorry before, but this question hasn't replied yet. I'm afraid it's missed because of the puzzle 10 discussion. Thanks |
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DanAvi
Posts: 23
Country : India | DanAvi posted @ 2020-04-12 2:07 PM 2 is the easiest solve, I guess, since even I have solved it |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-12 11:43 PM Puzzle 11: If the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not share borders with other cards, is it acceptable? |
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EoHeongMat
Posts: 7
Country : South Korea | Puzzle 5:
1. In example, is there reason that [0,0] should be used?
2. Should "ALL" dominoes are placed? If so, why is there no [1,1]?
Edited by EoHeongMat 2020-04-13 12:13 PM
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-13 12:59 PM EoHeongMat - 2020-04-13 12:12 PM
Puzzle 5:
1. In example, is there reason that [0,0] should be used?
2. Should "ALL" dominoes are placed? If so, why is there no [1,1]?
1. It is simply that examples are illustrative and some authors usually make examples without putting much effort into it. There is no specific reason why [0,0] has to be there. It has multiple solutions. However, I would think it is advisable to have the example illustrate all rules.
2. Most likely not. I believe all are to be used. But I could not make progress beyond the right-most column, so I can't tell for sure.
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-13 1:18 PM What about the answer key for Diamonds? How can we specify the borders and numbers? |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-13 1:28 PM athin - 2020-04-11 6:58 PM
Puzzle 11:
If for example I only use 5 rows x 10 columns table, should I just put only the contents in row 1 to 5? And should I just put 10 characters in one row?
Yes, that should be fine. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-13 1:55 PM Puzzle 11: The instructions miss one more detail: All cards must be connected.
Or is that not required? |
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athin
Posts: 11
Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-13 4:53 PM I'll try to help answering some queries:
Puzzle 5:
- You should put ALL cards. That's why [0,0] are in the example. I have solved this puzzle so the rules should be good.
Puzzle 11:
- All cards are not required to be connected. And surely, if the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not contradict with the rule (i.e. not sharing an edge), it is acceptable. Because.. some cards are basically subset of another card.
- For the answer key, we don't need to specify the border and number because the instance of the puzzle is just a grid with some diamonds in some cells. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-13 5:53 PM athin - 2020-04-13 4:53 PM
I'll try to help answering some queries:
Puzzle 11:
- All cards are not required to be connected. And surely, if the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not contradict with the rule (i.e. not sharing an edge), it is acceptable. Because.. some cards are basically subset of another card.
- For the answer key, we don't need to specify the border and number because the instance of the puzzle is just a grid with some diamonds in some cells.
There is some confusion about the answer key, as I mentioned earlier. I would like this to be cleared. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | EoHeongMat - 2020-04-13 12:12 PM
Puzzle 5:
1. In example, is there reason that [0,0] should be used?
2. Should "ALL" dominoes are placed? If so, why is there no [1,1]?
There's an obvious typo. In the lower right corner should be 1-1. Please note that I do everything manually and do not access programs. I'll fix the example and update the file. |
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Kithyane
Posts: 49
Country : France | WTM - 2020-04-11 10:28 PM
Puzzle 8: As I understand it, the sides along the entire grid don't need to be filled in, is that correct? Otherwise it would have no solutions, if I'm looking correctly. But still, even if they don't all have to be filled in, can at least some of them be filled in?
I managed to solve it considering that every external border is a wall (like in the example ).
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | anurag - 2020-04-12 11:43 PM
Puzzle 11: If the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not share borders with other cards, is it acceptable?
Cards may not overlap. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Updated Puzzle Booklet
An updated version of the Puzzle Booklet is available now.
Change:
Puzzle 5 : Example fixed
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TiiT
Posts: 139
Country : Estonia | TiiT posted @ 2020-04-13 9:57 PM What happens if I miscalculate something in optimizers? Lets put here some concrete examples to make my question more clear:
1. Puzzle 10 Town. What if I accidentally sum up the given digits wrong? But the rest of the puzzle is correct.
2. Puzzle 11 Diamonds. What if I count the amount of diamonds wrong, but my solution is valid and is described correctly with (WWRWRW...)
3. Puzzle 12 Opti-battle with losses. What if I calculate the equation wrong although the puzzle describe is valid.
4. Puzzle 12 Opti-battle with losses. What if I miss some of the possible solutions. Let's say I get 3 solutions, but I actually have 6. (Therefore my equation also gets wrong). But the puzzle created is valid.
5. Puzzle 11 Diamonds. Can 2 cards touch each other by corners? |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | TiiT - 2020-04-13 9:57 PM
What happens if I miscalculate something in optimizers? Lets put here some concrete examples to make my question more clear:
1. Puzzle 10 Town. What if I accidentally sum up the given digits wrong? But the rest of the puzzle is correct.
2. Puzzle 11 Diamonds. What if I count the amount of diamonds wrong, but my solution is valid and is described correctly with (WWRWRW...)
3. Puzzle 12 Opti-battle with losses. What if I calculate the equation wrong although the puzzle describe is valid.
4. Puzzle 12 Opti-battle with losses. What if I miss some of the possible solutions. Let's say I get 3 solutions, but I actually have 6. (Therefore my equation also gets wrong). But the puzzle created is valid.
5. Puzzle 11 Diamonds. Can 2 cards touch each other by corners?
1-4. All calculations are double-checked, don't worry.
5. Cards can touch each other by corners. Edited by Riad Khanmagomedov 2020-04-13 11:40 PM
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-13 11:41 PM TiiT - 2020-04-13 9:57 PM
What happens if I miscalculate something in optimizers? Lets put here some concrete examples to make my question more clear:
1. Puzzle 10 Town. What if I accidentally sum up the given digits wrong? But the rest of the puzzle is correct.
2. Puzzle 11 Diamonds. What if I count the amount of diamonds wrong, but my solution is valid and is described correctly with (WWRWRW...)
3. Puzzle 12 Opti-battle with losses. What if I calculate the equation wrong although the puzzle describe is valid.
As always, there will be no problem with that. It is only a little overhead for the author to report back claimed and actual scores.
4. Puzzle 12 Opti-battle with losses. What if I miss some of the possible solutions. Let's say I get 3 solutions, but I actually have 6. (Therefore my equation also gets wrong). But the puzzle created is valid.
Score should be based on the submitted solution.
5. Puzzle 11 Diamonds. Can 2 cards touch each other by corners?
Cannot.
Edited by anurag 2020-04-13 11:42 PM
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-13 11:43 PM I did not see your reply before posting mine. Cards can touch? In the squares puzzle, squares cannot touch. I thought the same rule applies here. Are you sure? |
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TiiT
Posts: 139
Country : Estonia | TiiT posted @ 2020-04-14 12:58 AM It would be nice if only author answers the questions. In that way we can be sure that the answers are correct and it doesn't get messy.
Thanks Riad for the answers! |
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Mihalich
Posts: 26
Country : Ukraine | ??????
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-09 2:21 PM ( #27898 - in reply to #27892 ) ( #27898 )
Puzzle 11:
1 ) Can the corners of the cards touch?
2 ) Can diamonds go one on top of the other?
1 ) Yes
2 ) In the example, cards 3 and 5 share a common diamond. |
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cyberx60
Posts: 15
Country : United States | In puzzle 8 of the contest does the direction on the bottom, 2nd from left, end before the edge of grid intentionally, or is this an error? |
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chaotic_iak
Posts: 241
Country : Indonesia | Considering the "white streets may not form 2x2 area" rule in 10 is actually not part of the Town ruleset, but a requirement for the author (that we must form a unique Town puzzle, which happens to have no 2x2 white area), I'll have to ask the same for 11 too: is the rule "cards may not share borders" part of the Diamonds ruleset (if there are multiple ways to reconstruct the contours, but only one of them also has no cards sharing borders, then the solution is unique) or is it a requirement for the author (the solution in the previous case is not unique)? |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-14 10:52 AM TiiT - 2020-04-14 12:58 AM
It would be nice if only author answers the questions. In that way we can be sure that the answers are correct and it doesn't get messy.
Thanks Riad for the answers!
Your quick retort was rude and unnecessary, if not ridiculous. On the contrary of what you think, and if you have not been following, the participants are NOT the source of mess. Instead they are the ones who are doing the admins' job.
Everyone is confused with many of the puzzles. Even after all that tedious messaging back and forth, look at the last question here - Chaoticiak has still got the rules of puzzle 10 wrong (or I got it wrong ). I am also not sure yet as the 'suggested' but not confirmed second version appears to be a trivial puzzle. You can imagine how shabbily all of this was managed. The earliest queries regarding Puzzle 10, for example, came from me and they were selectively taken down for no reason!
The random change in Puzzle 11 is unacceptable just 2 days shy of the deadline. It would be unfair as I had not considered corner touch until now. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-14 12:07 PM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-13 9:05 PM
anurag - 2020-04-12 11:43 PM
Puzzle 11: If the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not share borders with other cards, is it acceptable?
Cards may not overlap.
I do not understand how that answers the question. If language is a problem, the admin should own the responsibility of a mediator. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-14 12:14 PM chaotic_iak - 2020-04-14 9:38 AM
Considering the "white streets may not form 2x2 area" rule in 10 is actually not part of the Town ruleset, but a requirement for the author (that we must form a unique Town puzzle, which happens to have no 2x2 white area)
I think I understand your third version. Is it different from both versions described here previously? I think it is. One can take the liberty to innovate, given that the instructions were woefully inadequate. |
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Swagatam
Posts: 45
Country : India | Puzzle 8: Hex maze
Answer format is total number of obtuse angles of the path. Do I have to count (the number of obtuse angles) both sides of each turn of the path? |
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cyberx60
Posts: 15
Country : United States | Swagatam - 2020-04-13 1:58 PM
Puzzle 8: Hex maze
Answer format is total number of obtuse angles of the path. Do I have to count (the number of obtuse angles) both sides of each turn of the path?
An obtuse angle measures strictly between (and not including ) 90 and 180 degrees, so even if you did count both sides, you should arrive at the same answer. |
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TiiT
Posts: 139
Country : Estonia | TiiT posted @ 2020-04-14 11:11 PM TiiT - 2020-04-14 9:58 PM
It would be nice if only author answers the questions. In that way we can be sure that the answers are correct and it doesn't get messy.
Thanks Riad for the answers!
Sorry about my expression. I agree that solvers make an important part in here.
So I put it in this way.
Maybe it would be nice if only those solvers are responsing who understand the rules (in addition to authors responses ). It doesn't make sense if the same person answers the questions and at the same time repeats that he doesn't understand anything. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-15 12:07 AM Puzzle 10: As it stands now, any clarity remains elusive. There are at least three versions that the contestants could innovate. Two that are straightforward, and a third that asks me to create a town that was a clouds by definition and clues, but is actually somehow a town by solution. So, I guess it would be preferable to accept a solution based on any of the three versions as the participant likes. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-15 3:30 PM Apparently, either puzzle 10, or the whole contest, is scrapped. |
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kiwijam
Posts: 187
Country : New Zealand | kiwijam posted @ 2020-04-15 5:10 PM Sorry Anurag, you are filling this thread with complaints. You've posted 30 times already: take a breath, go for a walk.
I think Riad does a wonderful job every year, creating a contest for our enjoyment, even if there are small language difficulties.
Ivan's comment agrees with Riad's version, there is no ambiguity any more.
Let me repeat the instructions in my own words, which might help? |
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kiwijam
Posts: 187
Country : New Zealand | kiwijam posted @ 2020-04-15 5:28 PM chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13 ).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals. |
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athin
Posts: 11
Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-15 6:11 PM |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-15 6:33 PM kiwijam - 2020-04-15 5:28 PM
chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13 ).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
Funny. |
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Swagatam
Posts: 45
Country : India | Is this possible that if I put all the numbers outside the grid (which indicate the number of shaded cells) it may lead to multiple solutions? [For Town puzzle or any of this kind of puzzle] |
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-.ferchx.-
Posts: 12
Country : Spain | Congratulations for the contest !!
Puzzle 9:
I don't understand very well: "At the same time,starting from theb lack circle, draw a loop along the lines of the grid,passing through all rows and columns."
Can someone explain that to me in more detail?
Thanks.
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-.ferchx.-
Posts: 12
Country : Spain | Ok, I have seen that it can be solved without understanding it very well... |
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panista
Posts: 2
Country : Japan | panista posted @ 2020-04-16 4:53 PM kiwijam - 2020-04-15 8:28 PM
chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13 ).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
Thanks kiwijam for summarizing rules, but I don't agree with the interpretation of the rule 11. I agree with athin, the Diamonds rule set includes the border rule.
It becomes a problem in the following case.
(use 2,3,4 cards )
~~~~~~~
D~D~D~~
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
~~D~~~D
~~~~~~~
~~D~~~D
The position of the card 2 is unique or not?
I imagine each participant has different interpretations. It's a pity that the winner will change depending on the Riad's final judge after the contest....
I hope Riad will answer that question as soon as possible not to ruin this wonderful contest. Edited by panista 2020-04-16 4:55 PM
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oe2
Posts: 4
Country : Germany | oe2 posted @ 2020-04-16 6:41 PM yes |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | panista - 2020-04-16 4:53 PM
kiwijam - 2020-04-15 8:28 PM
chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13 ).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
Thanks kiwijam for summarizing rules, but I don't agree with the interpretation of the rule 11. I agree with athin, the Diamonds rule set includes the border rule.
It becomes a problem in the following case.
(use 2,3,4 cards )
~~~~~~~
D~D~D~~
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
~~D~~~D
~~~~~~~
~~D~~~D
The position of the card 2 is unique or not?
I imagine each participant has different interpretations. It's a pity that the winner will change depending on the Riad's final judge after the contest....
I hope Riad will answer that question as soon as possible not to ruin this wonderful contest.
I see a unique position for 2. This is a card with diamonds P2C3 and P6C3. What other options are possible? |
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kiwijam
Posts: 187
Country : New Zealand | kiwijam posted @ 2020-04-16 7:02 PM Oh dear. My interpretation was wrong then, that I posted a day ago.
According to my understanding of the rules, this diagram fails the sentence "All transparent cards from 2 to 4 are put on the table so that it is possible to uniquely restore their contours".
Because there are three places the 2-card might fit.
This is the opposite approach to puzzle 10, where the extra rule (no white 2x2) applies to the unique solution, not to the solving process.
Unfortunately it is 1:30am here, and I don't have time to start again... |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | kiwijam - 2020-04-16 7:02 PM
Oh dear. My interpretation was wrong then, that I posted a day ago.
According to my understanding of the rules, this diagram fails the sentence "All transparent cards from 2 to 4 are put on the table so that it is possible to uniquely restore their contours".
Because there are three places the 2-card might fit.
This is the opposite approach to puzzle 10, where the extra rule (no white 2x2) applies to the unique solution, not to the solving process.
Unfortunately it is 1:30am here, and I don't have time to start again...
We can extend the competition for a day.
I want to say about the puzzle 10. Its text changed the day before the start. My friends from India didn't like my translation using a translator. There was a misunderstanding. As a result, the text has changed a lot.
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | kiwijam - 2020-04-16 7:02 PM
Oh dear. My interpretation was wrong then, that I posted a day ago.
According to my understanding of the rules, this diagram fails the sentence "All transparent cards from 2 to 4 are put on the table so that it is possible to uniquely restore their contours".
Because there are three places the 2-card might fit.
This is the opposite approach to puzzle 10, where the extra rule (no white 2x2) applies to the unique solution, not to the solving process.
Unfortunately it is 1:30am here, and I don't have time to start again...
My text using the translator looked like this:
Place dark rectangles in the 12 x 10 grid, the lengths of the sides of which are at least 2 cells. They do not touch each other, not even diagonally. The number outside the grid shows the number of dark cells in the corresponding row. The puzzle must have a unique solution in your placement of the numbers. In this case, the white cells must form streets with a width of one cell, i.e. the white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2 x 2 cells. Maximize the number of streets. Among solutions with equal result the best will be the one in which the sum of the given numbers is less. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-16 7:31 PM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-16 7:21 PM
My text using the translator looked like this:
Place dark rectangles in the 12 x 10 grid, the lengths of the sides of which are at least 2 cells. They do not touch each other, not even diagonally. The number outside the grid shows the number of dark cells in the corresponding row. The puzzle must have a unique solution in your placement of the numbers. In this case, the white cells must form streets with a width of one cell, i.e. the white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2 x 2 cells. Maximize the number of streets. Among solutions with equal result the best will be the one in which the sum of the given numbers is less.
Why is this discussion still happening? I thought it was "no more ambiguous" or even unambiguous from the beginning and I was posting countless questions forn nothing.
kiwijam - 2020-04-16 7:02 PM
Oh dear. My interpretation was wrong then, that I posted a day ago.
According to my understanding of the rules, this diagram fails the sentence "All transparent cards from 2 to 4 are put on the table so that it is possible to uniquely restore their contours".
Because there are three places the 2-card might fit.
This is the opposite approach to puzzle 10, where the extra rule (no white 2x2) applies to the unique solution, not to the solving process.
Unfortunately it is 1:30am here, and I don't have time to start again...
I thought kiwijam cannot be wrong ; ) Edited by anurag 2020-04-16 7:31 PM
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Administrator
Country : India | 24 hours Extension
The contest duration is extended by 24 hours.
Answers can now be submitted/modified till 23:59 Moscow time on 17th April (20:59 GMT 17-04-2020) .
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-16 7:36 PM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-16 7:21 PM
kiwijam - 2020-04-16 7:02 PM
Oh dear. My interpretation was wrong then, that I posted a day ago.
According to my understanding of the rules, this diagram fails the sentence "All transparent cards from 2 to 4 are put on the table so that it is possible to uniquely restore their contours".
Because there are three places the 2-card might fit.
This is the opposite approach to puzzle 10, where the extra rule (no white 2x2) applies to the unique solution, not to the solving process.
Unfortunately it is 1:30am here, and I don't have time to start again...
My text using the translator looked like this:
Place dark rectangles in the 12 x 10 grid, the lengths of the sides of which are at least 2 cells. They do not touch each other, not even diagonally. The number outside the grid shows the number of dark cells in the corresponding row. The puzzle must have a unique solution in your placement of the numbers. In this case, the white cells must form streets with a width of one cell, i.e. the white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2 x 2 cells. Maximize the number of streets. Among solutions with equal result the best will be the one in which the sum of the given numbers is less.
Riad, the translation from your original text sounds much better than what the admins reduced it to. Not surprising, given that "You must submit before ..." has been there for years now in bold font on the submission pages. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | anurag - 2020-04-16 7:36 PM
Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-16 7:21 PM
kiwijam - 2020-04-16 7:02 PM
Oh dear. My interpretation was wrong then, that I posted a day ago.
According to my understanding of the rules, this diagram fails the sentence "All transparent cards from 2 to 4 are put on the table so that it is possible to uniquely restore their contours".
Because there are three places the 2-card might fit.
This is the opposite approach to puzzle 10, where the extra rule (no white 2x2) applies to the unique solution, not to the solving process.
Unfortunately it is 1:30am here, and I don't have time to start again...
My text using the translator looked like this:
Place dark rectangles in the 12 x 10 grid, the lengths of the sides of which are at least 2 cells. They do not touch each other, not even diagonally. The number outside the grid shows the number of dark cells in the corresponding row. The puzzle must have a unique solution in your placement of the numbers. In this case, the white cells must form streets with a width of one cell, i.e. the white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2 x 2 cells. Maximize the number of streets. Among solutions with equal result the best will be the one in which the sum of the given numbers is less.
Riad, the translation from your original text sounds much better than what the admins reduced it to. Not surprising, given that "You must submit before ..." has been there for years now in bold font on the submission pages.
Anurag, the second version also appeared through my efforts. We were looking for a more understandable wording, but as time has shown, we have not clarified the issue. I am very grateful to the administrators for their work. They have supported me for many years. Please note that the entire serious workload of the organizers is based on enthusiasm. |
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | Oh... I have just decided to read discussion thread and here is my opinion. Please be consequent. As long as "borders of cards cannot have common segments" is a part of Diamonds puzzle rules, the same should be in operation for "the white are of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells" for a Town puzzle. Why should I assume two different interpretation for two puzzles? As the Diamond puzle doesn't make a sense without this rule, I obviously assumed as well that "the white are of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells" is the rule of the Town Puzzle. I will be very unsatisfied if you don't consider this interpretation because I spent literally 30 hours (!) optimising the Town puzzle. I have not only found a good solution but I have also proved mathematically that my solution is the best possible. It needed both using some mathematical tools and checking hundreds of cases what I did patiently. I am not going to spend further time to optimise the Town puzzle without that rule. Please consider it when making decision about this puzzle. As I said I would be very unsatisfied if my work went for nothing.
Whatever you decide, big appreciation for Riad for the next very good contest.
If I may suggest something for next editions, maybe the better idea is to publish optimization puzzles in the format below.
Town puzzle rules.
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They cannot touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column. The white cells must form streets – the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least two. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid. Maximize N, thenumber of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
or
Town puzzle rules.
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They cannot touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid. This unique solution must meet the condition "The white cells must form streets – the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least two. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells." Maximize N, thenumber of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
And everything would be clear :)
Edited by lukasz6500 2020-04-17 12:34 AM
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Timjamiller
Posts: 54
Country : United States | So...uh...it's still not clear to me on puzzle 10. Should I make clues as if deductions utilizing "no 2x2 [or bigger] white squares" are allowed? Or do I need to clue it so that all dark squares are hit by a clue? |
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | If I were a decision maker, I would accept both interpretations (making two separate rankings for both cases) or I would cancel the whole puzzle at all. But I am not. |
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forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | I have not been on the forum for quite some time and I now notice the discussion has become very messy. I can't understand why. To me the rules of the diamonds and of the battleship were clear. Cards cannot have common segments and (after Anurag's question ) can touch at corners. OK where is the problem? Obviously in the example given by panista I can see only one way of placing the card 2 without overlapping of any of the segments. any alternative way of placing the card would cause partial overlapping of contour segments. During the course of the competition I generated some solutions which I discarded because I could swap the position of the cards 2 and 3 so I did not have a unique solution.For puzzle 10 I needed to ask a question to Riad and after his reply everything was clear: my understanding was (and still is ) that I have to solve a "Clouds-like" puzzle avoiding 2x2 white areas, and that I could not use the extra rule of the absence of 2x2 white areas to exclude some combinations. Perhaps not everybody has read Riad's comment on my question (do players read answers to questions asked by other players? ) or not everybody understood my question because i did not post a diagram with it, however subsequently there was a question about why there is the digit 2 in the example and that clarified the matter further (and I believe completely ). I recommend to Timjamiller to go back at page 2 of the comments and to read Riad's answer to my question and to the question asked by panista related to the example. Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-10 6:22 PMYou need to get a solution without 2x2 white fragments. You use this condition as given in advance. This is incorrect. To me arguments such as "if in puzzle 10 a certain rule xxxx is applied in a certain way then in puzzle 11 we should adopt the same interpretation" are not sustainable. every puzzle is a puzzle in itself and it can well be that rules can be different for different puzzles. |
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | I did not read discussion thread before today. I totally agree with you that your question resolves doubts about rules of Problem #10. But I didn't read it before. I just explained why I had interpreted rules in another way (another argument is that in previous editions such sentences like absence of 2x2 white areas applied for puzzle rules) and that I spent plenty of time solving this puzzle in that way. And by the way, the contents is still unclear and not updated in puzzle booklet.
For me, in that case, both or any approaches should be taken into consideration. Extending time is also a valid solution, but in that case, please clarify the contents in puzzle booklet and give enough time (e.g. until the end of this week) to make a proper approach. |
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forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | if the contest has been extended it seems that nobody told the clock. new answers are not accepted |
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Administrator
Country : India | forcolin - 2020-04-17 7:04 AM
if the contest has been extended it seems that nobody told the clock. new answers are not accepted
Fixed. |
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | I am waiting for the official decision of organisers. For me, accepting only one approach, without clarifying contents of puzzle booklet and extending contest for more time, is unaccaptable. But it is just my opinion :) Above is my explanation. I have already told everything and I am just waiting for the official decision. |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-17 10:42 AM Some serious lessons for the admins in the last few posts. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-17 10:58 AM forcolin - 2020-04-17 6:25 AM
I have not been on the forum for quite some time and I now notice the discussion has become very messy. I can't understand why. To me the rules of the diamonds and of the battleship were clear. Cards cannot have common segments and (after Anurag's question ) can touch at corners. OK where is the problem? Obviously in the example given by panista I can see only one way of placing the card 2 without overlapping of any of the segments. any alternative way of placing the card would cause partial overlapping of contour segments. During the course of the competition I generated some solutions which I discarded because I could swap the position of the cards 2 and 3 so I did not have a unique solution.For puzzle 10 I needed to ask a question to Riad and after his reply everything was clear: my understanding was (and still is ) that I have to solve a "Clouds-like" puzzle avoiding 2x2 white areas, and that I could not use the extra rule of the absence of 2x2 white areas to exclude some combinations. Perhaps not everybody has read Riad's comment on my question (do players read answers to questions asked by other players? ) or not everybody understood my question because i did not post a diagram with it, however subsequently there was a question about why there is the digit 2 in the example and that clarified the matter further (and I believe completely ). I recommend to Timjamiller to go back at page 2 of the comments and to read Riad's answer to my question and to the question asked by panista related to the example. Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-10 6:22 PMYou need to get a solution without 2x2 white fragments. You use this condition as given in advance. This is incorrect. To me arguments such as "if in puzzle 10 a certain rule xxxx is applied in a certain way then in puzzle 11 we should adopt the same interpretation" are not sustainable. every puzzle is a puzzle in itself and it can well be that rules can be different for different puzzles.
Stefano, that reply from Riad, as I had mentioned several times, was grammatically incorrect. And that was the source of all confusion. It is a shame that nobody answered that question of mine, even yet. I also prepared a very specific question on that reply. If you read all my posts, which I don't think others did, you should notice that I also said that the puzzle, as I understand, was trivial. This was enough clue that my understanding was incorrect (same as what one of the users posting today thinks ). Nobody corrected me on that. Some think and claim everything was crystal clear, pretend to help with some forced answers, report weird statistics like how many posts I made, and yet speculations do not end. Endorsing can be fun, but one should not sound like a sponsor. Edited by anurag 2020-04-17 11:00 AM
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SCORPPROCS
Posts: 2
Country : Turkey | Puzzle 11: Town Puzzle
Is the example below, for just the cards 4 and 5, accepted?
Please note that the solution is not unique.
XXOXXXO
XXXXXXX
OXXXOXX
XXXXXXX
XXOXXXO
XXXXXXX
OXXXOXX
Edited by SCORPPROCS 2020-04-17 12:06 PM
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Administrator
Country : India | 24 hours Extension
Based on requests from participants, the contest duration is further extended by 24 hours.
Answers can now be submitted/modified till 23:59 Moscow time on 18th April (20:59 GMT 18-04-2020) .
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Administrator
Country : India | Request to participants
Please restrict the discussion to the contest and puzzles.
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Administrator
Country : India | Updated Puzzle Booklet
An updated version of the Puzzle Booklet is available now.
Changes:
Page 1 : Submission date updated
Puzzle 10: Rules paraphrased again, based on forum discussion.
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Mihalich
Posts: 26
Country : Ukraine | Under the new rules in the example, the number 2 is not needed. Right? |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-17 6:24 PM Streets of length 2 are not possible. It was not necessary to mention in the rules. They could just mention 1x3. The word 'the' also managed to stay in that updated text. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-17 6:25 PM Mihalich - 2020-04-17 6:20 PM
Under the new rules in the example, the number 2 is not needed. Right?
The clue '2' is needed in the example. |
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kiwijam
Posts: 187
Country : New Zealand | kiwijam posted @ 2020-04-17 6:49 PM @Scorpprocs: Riad says "The reviewer should clearly define the borders of the nine cards and their numerical values.", so your example is not accepted because you cannot uniquely tell where the 4 and 5 are. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-17 7:24 PM kiwijam - 2020-04-17 6:49 PM
@Scorpprocs: Riad says "The reviewer should clearly define the borders of the nine cards and their numerical values.", so your example is not accepted because you cannot uniquely tell where the 4 and 5 are.
It is obvious that you haven't been reading. Your focus is on unnecessary things like counting how many time someone posts.
Scorpprocs's solution is correct, and as he knew, not unique. He asked if the solution is acceptable in terms of placement of cards, except for the non-uniqueness.
If you can invest time in counting the number of posts per user, I am sure you can do a bit of reading too. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1779
Country : India | Anurag -
It is clear your only presence here is to cause problems, and it hasn't escaped me that each time you come over here with this attitude is after a new case of us trying to work with you and it not working out. I don't want to divulge further here, but please stop with the agenda. Consider this the last warning and after this you will be banned from the forum for being a disruptive influence.
We are all here to enjoy Riad's puzzles. I can tell all the participants as a test solver that a lot of work goes into the IB and PB and the version put out is a result of a lot of cooperation between him and us already. We may still fall short at times, but that is never the intention. We have to run multiple contests in a year and sometimes its difficult to give more than a certain amount of time to a particular one but we always appreciate what Riad brings to these contests and are happy to make it work, even if things are found wanting sometimes, because the puzzle quality generally makes up for it. We apologize generally for the confusion that seems to have been caused with the rules.
I repeat though that that is no reason for a bullish attitude. Thank you to everyone who has gone about the discussions in an amicable way and tried to help out genuinely. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-17 8:12 PM I can't emphasize more that this has nothing to do with what you are referring to. I need to know who is the admin here. It is a pity you think so. You all carry the same opinion about me that I am a critic, nothing more than that. My queries were left unattended and even taken down. So, who is the admin? I happen to write at this time because I usually don't attend other tests, not because of what you are referring to. I am not so keen to work with someone that I would resort to means of bullshitting. This thread did not start with complaints, if you were really reading. All I am saying is you are not doing your work and instead making alternative sense of it.
Your apology is fine, that's not what I need. I repeat, I have only one thing to say: know what you are doing before deleting posts. Thank you. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1779
Country : India | If that isn't the case, then I wonder why you have so much vitriol in your posts, and why there is a pattern of this.. Maybe there is a reason why people have a common opinion of you. I did not take down your posts but knowing past instances I have no doubt it was justified if another admin did. My apology was for people who deal with things well. You clearly do not and cannot see how disruptive you have been on the forum. |
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | I am working tonight (that's why I asked for extending the contest at least until the end of the week) so I have no time to take a second approach for Puzzle #10. I know it is my problem but thank you for waisting seven days of my life mostly only solving that contest to get the best possible results in optimisation puzzles.
For all the time rules of problem #10 were:
Make a town puzzle with a unique solution in the grid 12x10.
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They cannot touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column. The white cells must form streets with a width of one cell, i.e. the white area of streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Maximize N, the number of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
I have solved this problem.
There was no mention that that unique solution must meet the condition of the absence of 2x2 white areas in puzzle booklet.
And I hope it will be considered as a good solution.
I really appreciate your job and I am sorry for emotions. I just spent too much time for that contest and that's why I do care so much. Greetings! |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | SCORPPROCS - 2020-04-17 12:05 PM
Puzzle 11: Town Puzzle
Is the example below, for just the cards 4 and 5, accepted?
Please note that the solution is not unique.
XXOXXXO
XXXXXXX
OXXXOXX
XXXXXXX
XXOXXXO
XXXXXXX
OXXXOXX
This is not acceptable. |
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TiiT
Posts: 139
Country : Estonia | TiiT posted @ 2020-04-17 9:31 PM Maybe someone who knows the rules, should post few easy example puzzles here to show what kind of solutions are acceptable and what kind of solutions are not.
As much as I understand the rules (english is not my mother language), I'm pretty sure that 2x2 white areas are NOT allowed in town puzzle. It's also a rule if you start solving it with given clues after you have created one. I mean that if you are solving the puzzle you can use it to make a progress.
Example: If you have 2x2 area where 3 cells are definitely unshaded, then the 4-th cell must be shaded.
Note: Please correct me if I'm wrong. I also agree if you delete my post and replace it with correct expanation. I also have solved the puzzle as well as I could and it would not be a problem if I actually got it wrong.
Note2: I really appreciate the aesthetics of the puzzles after I had solved them. They looked just so beautiful. I even photographed them :)
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | TiiT - 2020-04-17 9:31 PM
Maybe someone who knows the rules, should post few easy example puzzles here to show what kind of solutions are acceptable and what kind of solutions are not.
As much as I understand the rules (english is not my mother language), I'm pretty sure that 2x2 white areas are NOT allowed in town puzzle. It's also a rule if you start solving it with given clues after you have created one. I mean that if you are solving the puzzle you can use it to make a progress.
Example: If you have 2x2 area where 3 cells are definitely unshaded, then the 4-th cell must be shaded.
Note: Please correct me if I'm wrong. I also agree if you delete my post and replace it with correct expanation. I also have solved the puzzle as well as I could and it would not be a problem if I actually got it wrong.
Note2: I really appreciate the aesthetics of the puzzles after I had solved them. They looked just so beautiful. I even photographed them :)
I am pretty sure that too. This is a difference between Clouds / Regenwolken and usual Town puzzle. The first one does not have the rule about the absence of 2x2 white area. The second one does. But of course sometimes there are some small differences in puzzles of the same name so it should have been clarified in puzzle booklet always.
And this is another argument why this approach should be considered. |
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Mihalich
Posts: 26
Country : Ukraine | Puzzle 10.
Condition:
- - - -
2 ? ? ? ?
- ? ? ? ?
In the description, only 2, without 0.
Is there a unique solution or not?
Edited by Mihalich 2020-04-17 10:33 PM
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | Mihalich - 2020-04-17 10:31 PM
Puzzle 10.
Condition:
- - - -
2 ? ? ? ?
- ? ? ? ?
In the description, only 2, without 0.
Is there a unique solution or not?
According to the actual rules and organisers' statement, there is not a unique solution. |
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | I will just make a summary and this will be my last message here.
There are two different approaches for Problem #10.
One of them states that the absence of 2x2 white areas is considered as a rule of a Town puzzle.
The seconds one states that it is not and that the unique solution of a Town puzzle should meet this condition.
Arguments for the first statement:
- contents of puzzle booklet for the whole standard time of the contest (excluding addidional time due to decision of extending the contest) - there was no mention that the unique solution must meet this condition;
- the same approach has been made for other problems (e.g. "borders of cards cannot have common segments" is part of rules of a Diamonds puzzle in Problem #11);
- usual Town puzzle probably contains that rule (if someone is able to find the example to get ensured, it will be great);
Arguments for the second statement:
- Riad's reply to Forcolin's message posted on the discussion thread - after that there was no official statement and clarifying the contents of puzzle booklet until today.
Below it is my opinion.
The decision of clarifying the rules and extending the contest was too late and for not enough time to make a second approach. The contest lasts 9 days so everyone can find enough time to solve problems.
If someone didn't read discussion thread before and has no time today and tomorrow then he has no chance to do it properly.
In that case, both approaches or any of them should be valid.
The decision is up to organisers. I will accept any decision even if I do not agree with it.
After all I really liked all the puzzles so I do appreciate a professional work of Riad. |
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forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | perhaps the organizers can activate a second answering page for puzzle 10 where a solution obtained according to a different principle/approach can be filed. I believe i have used the correct approach but if i am wrong I would be happy to submit a second alternative solution
on the same puzzle, how are roads counted? as kiwijam mentioned, is it the number of words in a crossword or the number of stretches of length 1x3 at least?
In other words, in the example below whereas O=white, X=black
XXOXX
XXOXX
OOOOO
XXOXX
XXOXX
how many roads are there? 2 of length 5 crossing in the middle or 4 of length 3 all departing from the central square?
Edited by forcolin 2020-04-18 12:51 AM
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | forcolin - 2020-04-18 12:48 AM
XXOXX
XXOXX
OOOOO
XXOXX
XXOXX
how many roads are there? 2 of length 5 crossing in the middle or 4 of length 3 all departing from the central square?
There are 2 streets of length 5. |
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forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | forcolin - 2020-04-18 12:48 AM
perhaps the organizers can activate a second answering page for puzzle 10 where a solution obtained according to a different principle/approach can be filed. I believe i have used the correct approach but if i am wrong I would be happy to submit a second alternative solution
sorry this was a stupid proposal just ignore it |
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athin
Posts: 11
Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-18 4:33 AM lukasz6500 - 2020-04-18 12:01 AM
I will just make a summary and this will be my last message here.
There are two different approaches for Problem #10.
One of them states that the absence of 2x2 white areas is considered as a rule of a Town puzzle.
The seconds one states that it is not and that the unique solution of a Town puzzle should meet this condition.
Arguments for the first statement:
- contents of puzzle booklet for the whole standard time of the contest (excluding addidional time due to decision of extending the contest) - there was no mention that the unique solution must meet this condition;
- the same approach has been made for other problems (e.g. "borders of cards cannot have common segments" is part of rules of a Diamonds puzzle in Problem #11);
- usual Town puzzle probably contains that rule (if someone is able to find the example to get ensured, it will be great);
Arguments for the second statement:
- Riad's reply to Forcolin's message posted on the discussion thread - after that there was no official statement and clarifying the contents of puzzle booklet until today.
Below it is my opinion.
The decision of clarifying the rules and extending the contest was too late and for not enough time to make a second approach. The contest lasts 9 days so everyone can find enough time to solve problems.
If someone didn't read discussion thread before and has no time today and tomorrow then he has no chance to do it properly.
In that case, both approaches or any of them should be valid.
The decision is up to organisers. I will accept any decision even if I do not agree with it.
After all I really liked all the puzzles so I do appreciate a professional work of Riad.
For what it's worth, I feel the same way thus I also made this comment:
athin - 2020-04-12 4:56 AM
Oh well, I already had a nice construction for the first interpretation, now I have to update it (or maybe scrapped it).. Hope this kind of misunderstanding doesn't come in later contests.
To clarify again, the solution of the town puzzle may have 2x2 cells. But if it happens, then it will get absolute 0 points. Is this correct?
But of course, I was lucky enough to read the discussion pretty early. Nevertheless, IMO accepting both approaches is kind of unfair as most people were apparently moving to the second approach and redoing the puzzle including me.
I'm happy to share my solution for the first approach after the contest end tho as I'm also pretty glad how it turned out. Maybe we can have an unofficial ranking for that one -- out of the contest? |
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | I would have not had any problem if organisers had clarified rules of this problem in puzzle booklet or had made an official statement that rules of this puzzle has changed. They knew there was a problem and they didn't clarify rules. Mistakes may happen and mistakes are happening for all people. I am okay with that and this is not a problem for me. I just want organisers to make a fair decision. For me accepting only second approach would be also unfair. |
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krasnosulinec1797
Posts: 2
Country : Russia | Hello!
Where can i find the answer form for the Riad contest on the site ?
Krasnosulinec 1797. |
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forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | the clock has stopped submissions again |
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Administrator
Country : India | Submission Link
Submissions were not working for some time. It is working now. Apologies for the inconvenience.
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Administrator
Country : India | Optimizer Submissions
Submissions to Optimizer puzzles available in score page.
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kiwijam
Posts: 187
Country : New Zealand | kiwijam posted @ 2020-04-19 4:10 PM Wow, lots of entries, and lots of great optimizer submissions.
Congratulations to those that found the optimal answers, and a big thank you to Riad and LMI for a fun and successful contest. :) |
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | I will share my observations from optimization puzzles. Maybe someone will find it interesting :)
Problem #10
Maximizing N, the number of streets, is the same for both approaches (including or excluding the absence of 2x2 white areas as a rule of Town puzzle).
Observation 1. N <= 18. The proof is by checking how streets may be distributed and checking some cases. I will just give a sketch without technical details. It is quite intuitive but formal details are very long. So there are at most 12 dark rectangles in the grid (at most 4 rectangles in one row and at most 3 rectangles in one column). Hence, all horizontal streets must touch (from above or below) the rectangle which "touches" an upper or lower border of the grid (I say that the rectangle touches a border when it is at most 1 cell apart from the border). From that you can deduce that there are at most 12 horizontal streets and how they may be distributed. Similarly, there are at most 12 vertical streets. Analysing the distribution, some of them cannot occur together or they must be "glued" together. Here comes checking some cases and after that you obtain 2 limit cases. One with 3 vertical streets coming through the whole grid (but then easily it comes that there are at most 17 streets) and one with 2 long horizontal streets (there are at most 6 horizontal and 12 vertical streets). And this is our case. All eight middle rows are determined here. After that, by distributing streets over the upper and lower row, we are getting 5 different solutions (accurate to symmetry).
Observation 2. (including the absence of 2x2 white areas as a rule of Town puzzle) When N = 18, the sum of given values >= 26. The proof is by drawing 5 possible patterns and modifying them by some small changes. If you find another solution which differs only at e.g. row #1, column #1 and column #2, then you know that you must use at least one of these values. After that you get some sets of rows or columns from which you must use at least one. And actually we are getting a few disjoint sets so the number of cases is really limited here. Finally, there are exactly 2 different solutions accurate to symmetry (4 different solutions generally) meeting (N, sum) = (18, 26).
The same method works for the second aproach without the rule of white areas. I did not check it but I think that there are a few times more cases to analyse to get the most optimal solution but still I think it can be done with a pencil and rubber during the contest.
Problem #11
I do not have any formal observation here. I came here with 36 diamonds and area = 143 but maybe it can be done better. How did I get it? There are so many cases that I must have decided for some assumptions. We want to get as most as we can common diamonds. Cards #10, #9, #8, #7 have the most number diamonds so I just checked many ways of joining them together. When these cards had totally <= 25 diamonds, I was trying to join next cards (#6, #5, #4, #3, #2) consecutively in the best possible way locally.
Problem #12
Firstly it is provable that you cannot obtain the value of 60. It is because there are no 2 disjoint distributions of full flotilla. Hence, the value of 59 is the greatest. When I found one, I did not analyse this problem any longer. But I obtained it by drawing the random set of full flotilla as fragments of the sea (all horizontal fragments - of length 4 and 2 in the first row, of length 3 and 3 in the second row, of length 2 and 2 and 1 in the fifth row, of length 1 and 1 and 1 in the seventh row). I checked it. It didn't work but I noticed that moving two 1-cell elements from the seventh row to the right side is enough to fix it. So the way how I did it makes me believe that there are at least hundreds of solutions with that value. Also there are 8 different submissions with that value :)
Edited by lukasz6500 2020-04-19 8:35 PM
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | Preliminary results will be published in the next few minutes. We decided not to include points for problem 10 in the final table. The reason is the complexity or ambiguity in the rules, and from a fairness perspective. |
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Rubben
Posts: 20
Country : Romania | Rubben posted @ 2020-04-19 10:54 PM Because flash problems I did not submited my solutions, but I really enjoyed problems. Thanks. |
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WA1729
Posts: 62
Country : United States | WA1729 posted @ 2020-04-19 10:58 PM Riad, thank you so much for putting this together! I loved the puzzles and had a lot of fun working on them. Build a Dominoes and Diatapa were my favorites. Thank you! |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | WA1729 - 2020-04-19 10:58 PM
Riad, thank you so much for putting this together! I loved the puzzles and had a lot of fun working on them. Build a Dominoes and Diatapa were my favorites. Thank you!
Thank you Walker, thanks to all participants!
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | Congratulations to Lukasz, Hugo and Tomoya! |
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Mihalich
Posts: 26
Country : Ukraine | Riad! Thank you for the most powerful and interesting contest! This year was a lot of fun! It’s fun because this contest showed that we are all people, not just machines that create and solve puzzles! |
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forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | Riad Thanks a lot for this contest which is the "Paris-Roubaix" of puzzle, the most enduring contest of the year. a monument. a classical event. Glad that the number of participants is increasing showing thesuccess of the event. Already looking forward for next year |
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athin
Posts: 11
Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-20 4:57 AM This is my first time to join this contest series and I really love it, so thank you very much Riad for the puzzles! :D
Btw, I really like (9) CHAIN BETWEEN POLYOMINOES, then (5) BUILD A DOMINOES comes next.
One suggestion maybe: For an answer format involving the number of turns, especially (8) BUILD A HEXMAZE, it is easy to miscount the number. I have to recount like 5 times until I'm sure that the answer is 101 instead of 100 (3 times I counted 100, and only 2 times I counted 101.) Maybe the answer format can be simpler and easier like the content/wall of some rows, or the total number of turns (not just obtuse one.)
Edited by athin 2020-04-20 5:09 AM
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Administrator
Country : India | Congratulations to Lukasz Kalinowski, Hugo van Rooijen and Tomoya Kimura for taking the top three places.
Thanks to the 112 participants from 31 countries. The participation was much higher compared to 2019. 36 participants completed the first 9 puzzles, and 24 participants scored points in the Optimzers. The median score of the test was 47. Italy had 14 participants, India 12, USA and France had 11 participants each.
Puzzle #1 (Battleships with Losses) was solved by the highest number of participants (96). Puzzles #8 (Build a Hex Maze) and #9 (Chain between Polyominoes) were each solved by 62 participants, the least among the first 9 puzzles.
Thanks Riad for the engaging puzzles!
And, thanks to all participants for healthy discussions, suggestions and constructive criticisms! |
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lukasz6500
Posts: 12
Country : Poland | Thanks Riad for the great competition and wonderful puzzles! I admire both logic and beauty of all of them. You do an amazing job every year! Btw, may I write some emotional shit? Yolo, let's do it! I have been struggling with a major depression, anxiety problems and drug abuse for a long time. And it is not only a fight against stigmatization which is a serious problem here where I live. First of all, it is a fight against myself - my low self-esteem, lack of self-confidence and emotions. I do not usually care about results but I must admit that this time is a little bit different. When you are hitting the bottom, every little or bigger thing, which increases your confidence, makes you feel that you can get back to life. It is still going to be a tough road ahead but let it be a good point to go through it :)
And also, thanks to all people who helped preparing the competition and to all participants. Congratulations to all of you and see you somewhere in the world :) Thanks! |
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mstang
Posts: 74
Country : United States | mstang posted @ 2020-04-20 9:10 AM Thanks Riad! And Lukasz, all the best. Congrats on your win :) |
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vjain9
Posts: 44
Country : India | vjain9 posted @ 2020-04-20 9:42 AM Really enjoyed Riad .... The solutions Booklet please. |
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sladjana
Posts: 1
Country : Serbia | If there are many to count, I usually number them writing small numbers in fields. It's my answer to Athin
Edited by sladjana 2020-04-20 4:20 PM
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Eugene Porter
Posts: 11
Country : United States | Is there a solution book --- I really like these puzzles..... I got stuck on the dominoes..... I want to see how close I am and I am not sure if all the dominoes have to be interconnected ?/ |
Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 18th April 2020