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Posts: 136 ![]() ![]() Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 2:30 PM Someone kindly rephrase that answer, as I cannot understand any of it. I have already submitted a solution and I am pretty sure I understand what is expected. But, this new piece of information makes me believe that I may still be missing something though it is very unlikely. Organizers, either confirm that my solution follows the rules, or please confirm what is mentioned in that last reply by the author. A slightly larger example grid might clear any doubts ( "You use this condition as given in advance" - he meant 'used' OR 'need to use'). The language seems to be the source of all confusion here. Reviewers have to step up their efforts. Edited by anurag 2020-04-11 2:34 PM |
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Posts: 136 ![]() ![]() Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 2:37 PM Count only those strips that are bounded by edges or rectangles. Example is fine. |
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Posts: 136 ![]() ![]() Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 4:14 PM Anderson: Interesting. I wonder how the two things you mentioned are different. In my opinion, when one of the two is met, the other is too, automatically (note that I am not starting to solve this puzzle yet so I am not thinking enough). Perhaps I am missing something. Secondly, I am not sure if your query (and the authors' reply) were from the answer key standpoint or the solve itself. If you noticed, the example's answer key does not include any 'numerical assignment' whatever that means. Uniquely restoring could just require that the grid be cut uniquely with no more than one assignment (which equates to card placement, and hence I don't see why the two things are separate) possible. Lastly, if indeed, as Riad mentions, the competitor (or reviewer as he calls it) has to specify the borders, how are we supposed to do it? There is no such assistance provided with the instructions. And did the reviewers ('reviewers' here means reviewers, not competitors) miss mentioning that in the file? Edited by anurag 2020-04-11 4:25 PM |
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Posts: 67 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : France | Puzlifouk posted @ 2020-04-11 5:03 PM Hello everyone, Hello Riad, I am extremely happy to face this contest again, which is for me the best event of the year! And yet, because of the confinement, I forgot that it was the period and I missed the start. Why didn't you remind us earlier in a post that the start was coming? I'm really disappointed for that ... Take care of you all. |
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Posts: 8 Country : Japan | SP1 posted @ 2020-04-11 5:12 PM Puzzle 10: I think the definition of "streets" is ambiguous. To clarify the definition, I consider a following 7x7 example: ~~~~##~ ~##~##~ ~##~##~ ~~~~~~~ ###~##~ ###~##~ ###~~~~ ~ means white cell and # means dark cell. I guess there are 6 streets in this grid. detail: R1C1 -> R1C4 R4C1 -> R4C7 R7C4 -> R7C7 R1C1 -> R4C1 R1C4 -> R7C4 R1C7 -> R7C7 Is this interpretation correct? |
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Posts: 2 Country : Japan | panista posted @ 2020-04-11 5:28 PM Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells." Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)? For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid? |
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Posts: 136 ![]() ![]() Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 5:41 PM panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells." Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)? For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid? I had asked the same question in an earlier post. Obviously, this restriction has to be a part of the Town puzzle and not just the answer entry, as otherwise it would make the puzzle trivial. However, the phrase "The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells" confused me as it was incorrectly stated. The reviewers should make some effort to rephrase it to "The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells". But, it remains to be seen what the organizers confirm. |
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Posts: 234 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : Russia | Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 5:42 PM Mihalich - 2020-04-10 11:36 PM Puzzle 7. For numbers with cells, the use of rules a) OR b) is true. If there is a cell where the rules are applied a) AND b) is this true or is it wrong? If both a) and b) can be applied, you can choose any of them. |
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Posts: 234 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : Russia | Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 5:44 PM pranavmanu - 2020-04-11 12:21 PM In the town puzzle mini example, going by the definition of a street being a stretch of white cells of length 2 and width 1, I can make out 6 streets in the solution for it. But the answer key gives it as 4, so have i understood it wrong?Or is there a mistake in the example's key? In the example, there are 4 streets with a length of 4 cells each. |
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Posts: 234 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : Russia | Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 5:55 PM anurag - 2020-04-11 2:30 PM Someone kindly rephrase that answer, as I cannot understand any of it. I have already submitted a solution and I am pretty sure I understand what is expected. But, this new piece of information makes me believe that I may still be missing something though it is very unlikely. Organizers, either confirm that my solution follows the rules, or please confirm what is mentioned in that last reply by the author. A slightly larger example grid might clear any doubts ( "You use this condition as given in advance" - he meant 'used' OR 'need to use'). The language seems to be the source of all confusion here. Reviewers have to step up their efforts. Take a look at an example of the Town puzzle. Let's delete the given digit 2. Stefano assumed that the solution would be with a dark square. But the verifier (Deb or I) can declare the middle of the example white. The digit 2 is necessary for the uniqueness of the solution. |
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Posts: 234 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : Russia | Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 6:00 PM Puzlifouk - 2020-04-11 5:03 PM Hello everyone, Hello Riad, I am extremely happy to face this contest again, which is for me the best event of the year! And yet, because of the confinement, I forgot that it was the period and I missed the start. Why didn't you remind us earlier in a post that the start was coming? I'm really disappointed for that ... Take care of you all. Thank you for your kind words! |
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Posts: 234 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : Russia | Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 6:02 PM SP1 - 2020-04-11 5:12 PM Puzzle 10: I think the definition of "streets" is ambiguous. To clarify the definition, I consider a following 7x7 example: ~~~~##~ ~##~##~ ~##~##~ ~~~~~~~ ###~##~ ###~##~ ###~~~~ ~ means white cell and # means dark cell. I guess there are 6 streets in this grid. detail: R1C1 -> R1C4 R4C1 -> R4C7 R7C4 -> R7C7 R1C1 -> R4C1 R1C4 -> R7C4 R1C7 -> R7C7 Is this interpretation correct? Correct! |
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Posts: 234 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : Russia | Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 6:05 PM panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells." Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)? For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid? Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution. |
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Posts: 55 ![]() ![]() Country : India | pranavmanu posted @ 2020-04-11 6:06 PM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 5:55 PM Take a look at an example of the Town puzzle. Let's delete the given digit 2. Stefano assumed that the solution would be with a dark square. But the verifier (Deb or I) can declare the middle of the example white. The digit 2 is necessary for the uniqueness of the solution. But the rules of the puzzle state no 2*2 area can be completely white, which ensures that middle of the mini example has to be a 2*2 block of shaded cells!!,based on the other 0 clues. They cant be taken as white as that is not even a solution in the first place.I dont see how uniqueness comes into the picture here?? How is the outside clue 2 essential as per the rules? Also, going by your statement,every row or column that has shaded cells should be clued with an outside digit, or else they will be assumed by you as white? |
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Posts: 136 ![]() ![]() Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 6:26 PM Prnav: That's the whole point! If you read my first query regarding this puzzle, it was there to verify the same thing, whether the 2x2 constraint has to be considered during the design (and I am sure it has to be). But now, the author's statement implies NOT. Which is surprising. Apparently nice and easy puzzle, but so much discussion surrounding it. |
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![]() Posts: 11 Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-11 6:56 PM Puzzle 10: I'm pretty confident about my understanding of puzzle 10, so I may rephrase the definition of streets as: "if you treat the final board as a crossword, then the street is a single word, so the number of street will be the number of words in this crossword." And also, I have to agree that without 2 in the example, the solution should be unique as there shouldn't be any 2x2 of white cells. The proposed "alternative solution" fails this constraint. This is my opinion btw, surely it will be great for the organizers to clarify this. |
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![]() Posts: 11 Country : Indonesia | athin posted @ 2020-04-11 6:58 PM Puzzle 11: If for example I only use 5 rows x 10 columns table, should I just put only the contents in row 1 to 5? And should I just put 10 characters in one row? |
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Posts: 136 ![]() ![]() Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 7:13 PM I can't imagine what the currently stated version of the Town puzzle asks us to do, if it is different from what I and many others are confident that it is. |
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Posts: 67 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : France | Puzlifouk posted @ 2020-04-11 7:47 PM Puzzle 2: the answer format is quite strange. Why from right to left. And it is from right to left for the first diagonal too ? Or you mean from to bottom, for the two diagonals ? |
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Posts: 67 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : France | Puzlifouk posted @ 2020-04-11 7:49 PM Oops, sorry. It's explained on the answering form ... |
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Posts: 8 Country : Japan | SP1 posted @ 2020-04-11 9:08 PM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells." Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)? For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid? Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution. Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"... My former interpretation is as follows: Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid. "Town puzzle" rules: Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They can not touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column. The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2. The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells. (<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule) Conditions for optimization: Maximize N, the number of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better. However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true: Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid. "Town puzzle" rules Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They can not touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column. (<- exactly "Clouds" rules) Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!!) The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2. The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells. Conditions of the optimization: Maximize N, the number of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better. Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify! |
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Posts: 136 ![]() ![]() Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 9:20 PM This has been asked several times, but not clarified yet. Looks like the reviewers did not care to check the optimizers. While I am sure it has to be the first version, the author himself has turned it around. The second version is trivial and makes no sense. If that is what is expected, I don't get it, and don't like the puzzle. |
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Posts: 234 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : Russia | Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 10:11 PM SP1 - 2020-04-11 9:08 PM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells." Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)? For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid? Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution. Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"... My former interpretation is as follows: Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid. "Town puzzle" rules: Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They can not touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column. The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2. The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells. (<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule) Conditions for optimization: Maximize N, the number of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better. However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true: Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid. "Town puzzle" rules Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They can not touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column. (<- exactly "Clouds" rules) Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!!) The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2. The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells. Conditions of the optimization: Maximize N, the number of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better. Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify! I now understand where the questions came from. In the September Contest 2010, I published the Town puzzle. When solving this puzzle, we used the condition that the white area does not have 2x2 fragments. I repeated the name of the puzzle in 2020, but without looking back at the previous work. This point probably confused the solvers. In this April Contest, I suggest using the second option that you have described. |
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Posts: 136 ![]() ![]() Country : India | anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 10:15 PM As I said a couple of times today, the second version does not appeal to me. I reject it, unless someone can explain how it works. Also, I don't have my question about my subbmission answered yet. I think the admins are not available today to send you my submission. |
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Posts: 8 Country : Japan | SP1 posted @ 2020-04-11 10:40 PM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 10:11 PM SP1 - 2020-04-11 9:08 PM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells." Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)? For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid? Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution. Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"... My former interpretation is as follows: Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid. "Town puzzle" rules: Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They can not touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column. The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2. The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells. (<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule) Conditions for optimization: Maximize N, the number of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better. However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true: Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid. "Town puzzle" rules Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They can not touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column. (<- exactly "Clouds" rules) Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!!) The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2. The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells. Conditions of the optimization: Maximize N, the number of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better. Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify! I now understand where the questions came from. In the September Contest 2010, I published the Town puzzle. When solving this puzzle, we used the condition that the white area does not have 2x2 fragments. I repeated the name of the puzzle in 2020, but without looking back at the previous work. This point probably confused the solvers. In this April Contest, I suggest using the second option that you have described. I see how it is. OK, now I consider this optimization by using the latter option. Thank you for your reply! |