Oh... I have just decided to read discussion thread and here is my opinion. Please be consequent. As long as "borders of cards cannot have common segments" is a part of Diamonds puzzle rules, the same should be in operation for "the white are of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells" for a Town puzzle. Why should I assume two different interpretation for two puzzles? As the Diamond puzle doesn't make a sense without this rule, I obviously assumed as well that "the white are of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells" is the rule of the Town Puzzle. I will be very unsatisfied if you don't consider this interpretation because I spent literally 30 hours (!) optimising the Town puzzle. I have not only found a good solution but I have also proved mathematically that my solution is the best possible. It needed both using some mathematical tools and checking hundreds of cases what I did patiently. I am not going to spend further time to optimise the Town puzzle without that rule. Please consider it when making decision about this puzzle. As I said I would be very unsatisfied if my work went for nothing.

Whatever you decide, big appreciation for Riad for the next very good contest.

If I may suggest something for next editions, maybe the better idea is to publish optimization puzzles in the format below.

Town puzzle rules.
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They cannot touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column. The white cells must form streets – the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least two. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.

Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid. Maximize N, thenumber of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.

or

Town puzzle rules.
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They cannot touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.

Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid. This unique solution must meet the condition "The white cells must form streets – the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least two. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells." Maximize N, thenumber of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.

And everything would be clear :)

Edited by lukasz6500 2020-04-17 12:34 AM

So...uh...it's still not clear to me on puzzle 10. Should I make clues as if deductions utilizing "no 2x2 [or bigger] white squares" are allowed? Or do I need to clue it so that all dark squares are hit by a clue?

If I were a decision maker, I would accept both interpretations (making two separate rankings for both cases) or I would cancel the whole puzzle at all. But I am not.

I have not been on the forum for quite some time and I now notice the discussion has become very messy. I can't understand why. To me the rules of the diamonds and of the battleship were clear. Cards cannot have common segments and (after Anurag's question) can touch at corners. OK where is the problem? Obviously in the example given by panista I can see only one way of placing the card 2 without overlapping of any of the segments. any alternative way of placing the card would cause partial overlapping of contour segments. During the course of the competition I generated some solutions which I discarded because I could swap the position of the cards 2 and 3 so I did not have a unique solution.For puzzle 10 I needed to ask a question to Riad and after his reply everything was clear: my understanding was (and still is ) that I have to solve a "Clouds-like" puzzle avoiding 2x2 white areas, and that I could not use the extra rule of the absence of 2x2 white areas to exclude some combinations. Perhaps not everybody has read Riad's comment on my question (do players read answers to questions asked by other players?) or not everybody understood my question because i did not post a diagram with it, however subsequently there was a question about why there is the digit 2 in the example and that clarified the matter further (and I believe completely). I recommend to Timjamiller to go back at page 2 of the comments and to read Riad's answer to my question and to the question asked by panista related to the example. To me arguments such as "if in puzzle 10 a certain rule xxxx is applied in a certain way then in puzzle 11 we should adopt the same interpretation" are not sustainable. every puzzle is a puzzle in itself and it can well be that rules can be different for different puzzles.

I did not read discussion thread before today. I totally agree with you that your question resolves doubts about rules of Problem #10. But I didn't read it before. I just explained why I had interpreted rules in another way (another argument is that in previous editions such sentences like absence of 2x2 white areas applied for puzzle rules) and that I spent plenty of time solving this puzzle in that way. And by the way, the contents is still unclear and not updated in puzzle booklet.

For me, in that case, both or any approaches should be taken into consideration. Extending time is also a valid solution, but in that case, please clarify the contents in puzzle booklet and give enough time (e.g. until the end of this week) to make a proper approach.

if the contest has been extended it seems that nobody told the clock. new answers are not accepted

Fixed.

I am waiting for the official decision of organisers. For me, accepting only one approach, without clarifying contents of puzzle booklet and extending contest for more time, is unaccaptable. But it is just my opinion :) Above is my explanation. I have already told everything and I am just waiting for the official decision.

Some serious lessons for the admins in the last few posts.

Stefano, that reply from Riad, as I had mentioned several times, was grammatically incorrect. And that was the source of all confusion. It is a shame that nobody answered that question of mine, even yet. I also prepared a very specific question on that reply. If you read all my posts, which I don't think others did, you should notice that I also said that the puzzle, as I understand, was trivial. This was enough clue that my understanding was incorrect (same as what one of the users posting today thinks). Nobody corrected me on that. Some think and claim everything was crystal clear, pretend to help with some forced answers, report weird statistics like how many posts I made, and yet speculations do not end. Endorsing can be fun, but one should not sound like a sponsor.

Edited by anurag 2020-04-17 11:00 AM

Puzzle 11: Town Puzzle

Is the example below, for just the cards 4 and 5, accepted?
Please note that the solution is not unique.

XXOXXXO
XXXXXXX
OXXXOXX
XXXXXXX
XXOXXXO
XXXXXXX
OXXXOXX

Edited by SCORPPROCS 2020-04-17 12:06 PM

Under the new rules in the example, the number 2 is not needed. Right?

Streets of length 2 are not possible. It was not necessary to mention in the rules. They could just mention 1x3. The word 'the' also managed to stay in that updated text.

The clue '2' is needed in the example.

@Scorpprocs: Riad says "The reviewer should clearly define the borders of the nine cards and their numerical values.", so your example is not accepted because you cannot uniquely tell where the 4 and 5 are.

It is obvious that you haven't been reading. Your focus is on unnecessary things like counting how many time someone posts.

Scorpprocs's solution is correct, and as he knew, not unique. He asked if the solution is acceptable in terms of placement of cards, except for the non-uniqueness.

If you can invest time in counting the number of posts per user, I am sure you can do a bit of reading too.

Anurag -

It is clear your only presence here is to cause problems, and it hasn't escaped me that each time you come over here with this attitude is after a new case of us trying to work with you and it not working out. I don't want to divulge further here, but please stop with the agenda. Consider this the last warning and after this you will be banned from the forum for being a disruptive influence.

We are all here to enjoy Riad's puzzles. I can tell all the participants as a test solver that a lot of work goes into the IB and PB and the version put out is a result of a lot of cooperation between him and us already. We may still fall short at times, but that is never the intention. We have to run multiple contests in a year and sometimes its difficult to give more than a certain amount of time to a particular one but we always appreciate what Riad brings to these contests and are happy to make it work, even if things are found wanting sometimes, because the puzzle quality generally makes up for it. We apologize generally for the confusion that seems to have been caused with the rules.

I repeat though that that is no reason for a bullish attitude. Thank you to everyone who has gone about the discussions in an amicable way and tried to help out genuinely.

I can't emphasize more that this has nothing to do with what you are referring to. I need to know who is the admin here. It is a pity you think so. You all carry the same opinion about me that I am a critic, nothing more than that. My queries were left unattended and even taken down. So, who is the admin? I happen to write at this time because I usually don't attend other tests, not because of what you are referring to. I am not so keen to work with someone that I would resort to means of bullshitting. This thread did not start with complaints, if you were really reading. All I am saying is you are not doing your work and instead making alternative sense of it.
Your apology is fine, that's not what I need. I repeat, I have only one thing to say: know what you are doing before deleting posts. Thank you.

If that isn't the case, then I wonder why you have so much vitriol in your posts, and why there is a pattern of this.. Maybe there is a reason why people have a common opinion of you. I did not take down your posts but knowing past instances I have no doubt it was justified if another admin did. My apology was for people who deal with things well. You clearly do not and cannot see how disruptive you have been on the forum.

I am working tonight (that's why I asked for extending the contest at least until the end of the week) so I have no time to take a second approach for Puzzle #10. I know it is my problem but thank you for waisting seven days of my life mostly only solving that contest to get the best possible results in optimisation puzzles.


For all the time rules of problem #10 were:

Make a town puzzle with a unique solution in the grid 12x10.

Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high. They cannot touch each other, not even diagonally. The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column. The white cells must form streets with a width of one cell, i.e. the white area of streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.

Maximize N, the number of streets. If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.


I have solved this problem.
There was no mention that that unique solution must meet the condition of the absence of 2x2 white areas in puzzle booklet.
And I hope it will be considered as a good solution.

I really appreciate your job and I am sorry for emotions. I just spent too much time for that contest and that's why I do care so much. Greetings!

This is not acceptable.