@ 2020-04-13 11:41 PM (#27972 - in reply to #27970) (#27972) TopPosts: 136
Country : India
anurag posted @ 2020-04-13 11:41 PM
TiiT - 2020-04-13 9:57 PM
What happens if I miscalculate something in optimizers? Lets put here some concrete examples to make my question more clear:
1. Puzzle 10 Town. What if I accidentally sum up the given digits wrong? But the rest of the puzzle is correct.
2. Puzzle 11 Diamonds. What if I count the amount of diamonds wrong, but my solution is valid and is described correctly with (WWRWRW...)
3. Puzzle 12 Opti-battle with losses. What if I calculate the equation wrong although the puzzle describe is valid.
What happens if I miscalculate something in optimizers? Lets put here some concrete examples to make my question more clear:
1. Puzzle 10 Town. What if I accidentally sum up the given digits wrong? But the rest of the puzzle is correct.
2. Puzzle 11 Diamonds. What if I count the amount of diamonds wrong, but my solution is valid and is described correctly with (WWRWRW...)
3. Puzzle 12 Opti-battle with losses. What if I calculate the equation wrong although the puzzle describe is valid.
As always, there will be no problem with that. It is only a little overhead for the author to report back claimed and actual scores.
4. Puzzle 12 Opti-battle with losses. What if I miss some of the possible solutions. Let's say I get 3 solutions, but I actually have 6. (Therefore my equation also gets wrong). But the puzzle created is valid.
Score should be based on the submitted solution.
5. Puzzle 11 Diamonds. Can 2 cards touch each other by corners?
Cannot.
Edited by anurag 2020-04-13 11:42 PM
@ 2020-04-13 11:43 PM (#27973 - in reply to #27868) (#27973) TopPosts: 136
Country : India
anurag posted @ 2020-04-13 11:43 PM
I did not see your reply before posting mine. Cards can touch? In the squares puzzle, squares cannot touch. I thought the same rule applies here. Are you sure?
@ 2020-04-14 12:58 AM (#27974 - in reply to #27868) (#27974) TopPosts: 139
Country : Estonia
TiiT posted @ 2020-04-14 12:58 AM
It would be nice if only author answers the questions. In that way we can be sure that the answers are correct and it doesn't get messy.
Thanks Riad for the answers!
Thanks Riad for the answers!
@ 2020-04-14 1:39 AM (#27976 - in reply to #27972) (#27976) TopPosts: 26
Country : Ukraine
Mihalich posted @ 2020-04-14 1:39 AM
??????
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-09 2:21 PM ( #27898 - in reply to #27892 ) ( #27898 )
Puzzle 11:
1 ) Can the corners of the cards touch?
2 ) Can diamonds go one on top of the other?
1 ) Yes
2 ) In the example, cards 3 and 5 share a common diamond.
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-09 2:21 PM ( #27898 - in reply to #27892 ) ( #27898 )
Puzzle 11:
1 ) Can the corners of the cards touch?
2 ) Can diamonds go one on top of the other?
1 ) Yes
2 ) In the example, cards 3 and 5 share a common diamond.
@ 2020-04-14 2:31 AM (#27977 - in reply to #27868) (#27977) TopPosts: 15
Country : United States
cyberx60 posted @ 2020-04-14 2:31 AM
In puzzle 8 of the contest does the direction on the bottom, 2nd from left, end before the edge of grid intentionally, or is this an error?
@ 2020-04-14 9:38 AM (#27978 - in reply to #27868) (#27978) TopPosts: 241
Country : Indonesia
chaotic_iak posted @ 2020-04-14 9:38 AM
Considering the "white streets may not form 2x2 area" rule in 10 is actually not part of the Town ruleset, but a requirement for the author (that we must form a unique Town puzzle, which happens to have no 2x2 white area), I'll have to ask the same for 11 too: is the rule "cards may not share borders" part of the Diamonds ruleset (if there are multiple ways to reconstruct the contours, but only one of them also has no cards sharing borders, then the solution is unique) or is it a requirement for the author (the solution in the previous case is not unique)?
@ 2020-04-14 10:52 AM (#27979 - in reply to #27974) (#27979) TopPosts: 136
Country : India
anurag posted @ 2020-04-14 10:52 AM
TiiT - 2020-04-14 12:58 AM
It would be nice if only author answers the questions. In that way we can be sure that the answers are correct and it doesn't get messy.
Thanks Riad for the answers!
It would be nice if only author answers the questions. In that way we can be sure that the answers are correct and it doesn't get messy.
Thanks Riad for the answers!
Your quick retort was rude and unnecessary, if not ridiculous. On the contrary of what you think, and if you have not been following, the participants are NOT the source of mess. Instead they are the ones who are doing the admins' job.
Everyone is confused with many of the puzzles. Even after all that tedious messaging back and forth, look at the last question here - Chaoticiak has still got the rules of puzzle 10 wrong (or I got it wrong). I am also not sure yet as the 'suggested' but not confirmed second version appears to be a trivial puzzle. You can imagine how shabbily all of this was managed. The earliest queries regarding Puzzle 10, for example, came from me and they were selectively taken down for no reason!
The random change in Puzzle 11 is unacceptable just 2 days shy of the deadline. It would be unfair as I had not considered corner touch until now.
@ 2020-04-14 12:07 PM (#27980 - in reply to #27968) (#27980) TopPosts: 136
Country : India
anurag posted @ 2020-04-14 12:07 PM
Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-13 9:05 PM
Cards may not overlap.
anurag - 2020-04-12 11:43 PM
Puzzle 11: If the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not share borders with other cards, is it acceptable?
Puzzle 11: If the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not share borders with other cards, is it acceptable?
Cards may not overlap.
I do not understand how that answers the question. If language is a problem, the admin should own the responsibility of a mediator.
@ 2020-04-14 12:14 PM (#27981 - in reply to #27978) (#27981) TopPosts: 136
Country : India
anurag posted @ 2020-04-14 12:14 PM
chaotic_iak - 2020-04-14 9:38 AM
Considering the "white streets may not form 2x2 area" rule in 10 is actually not part of the Town ruleset, but a requirement for the author (that we must form a unique Town puzzle, which happens to have no 2x2 white area)
Considering the "white streets may not form 2x2 area" rule in 10 is actually not part of the Town ruleset, but a requirement for the author (that we must form a unique Town puzzle, which happens to have no 2x2 white area)
I think I understand your third version. Is it different from both versions described here previously? I think it is. One can take the liberty to innovate, given that the instructions were woefully inadequate.
@ 2020-04-14 12:58 PM (#27982 - in reply to #27868) (#27982) TopPosts: 45
Country : India
Swagatam posted @ 2020-04-14 12:58 PM
Puzzle 8: Hex maze
Answer format is total number of obtuse angles of the path. Do I have to count (the number of obtuse angles) both sides of each turn of the path?
Answer format is total number of obtuse angles of the path. Do I have to count (the number of obtuse angles) both sides of each turn of the path?
@ 2020-04-14 7:07 PM (#27985 - in reply to #27982) (#27985) TopPosts: 15
Country : United States
cyberx60 posted @ 2020-04-14 7:07 PM
Swagatam - 2020-04-13 1:58 PM
Puzzle 8: Hex maze
Answer format is total number of obtuse angles of the path. Do I have to count (the number of obtuse angles) both sides of each turn of the path?
Puzzle 8: Hex maze
Answer format is total number of obtuse angles of the path. Do I have to count (the number of obtuse angles) both sides of each turn of the path?
An obtuse angle measures strictly between (and not including) 90 and 180 degrees, so even if you did count both sides, you should arrive at the same answer.
@ 2020-04-14 11:11 PM (#27986 - in reply to #27974) (#27986) TopPosts: 139
Country : Estonia
TiiT posted @ 2020-04-14 11:11 PM
TiiT - 2020-04-14 9:58 PM
It would be nice if only author answers the questions. In that way we can be sure that the answers are correct and it doesn't get messy.
Thanks Riad for the answers!
It would be nice if only author answers the questions. In that way we can be sure that the answers are correct and it doesn't get messy.
Thanks Riad for the answers!
Sorry about my expression. I agree that solvers make an important part in here.
So I put it in this way.
Maybe it would be nice if only those solvers are responsing who understand the rules (in addition to authors responses). It doesn't make sense if the same person answers the questions and at the same time repeats that he doesn't understand anything.
@ 2020-04-15 12:07 AM (#27987 - in reply to #27981) (#27987) TopPosts: 136
Country : India
anurag posted @ 2020-04-15 12:07 AM
Puzzle 10: As it stands now, any clarity remains elusive. There are at least three versions that the contestants could innovate. Two that are straightforward, and a third that asks me to create a town that was a clouds by definition and clues, but is actually somehow a town by solution. So, I guess it would be preferable to accept a solution based on any of the three versions as the participant likes.
@ 2020-04-15 3:30 PM (#27988 - in reply to #27868) (#27988) TopPosts: 136
Country : India
anurag posted @ 2020-04-15 3:30 PM
Apparently, either puzzle 10, or the whole contest, is scrapped.
@ 2020-04-15 5:10 PM (#27989 - in reply to #27868) (#27989) TopPosts: 187
Country : New Zealand
kiwijam posted @ 2020-04-15 5:10 PM
Sorry Anurag, you are filling this thread with complaints. You've posted 30 times already: take a breath, go for a walk.
I think Riad does a wonderful job every year, creating a contest for our enjoyment, even if there are small language difficulties.
Ivan's comment agrees with Riad's version, there is no ambiguity any more.
Let me repeat the instructions in my own words, which might help?
I think Riad does a wonderful job every year, creating a contest for our enjoyment, even if there are small language difficulties.
Ivan's comment agrees with Riad's version, there is no ambiguity any more.
Let me repeat the instructions in my own words, which might help?
@ 2020-04-15 5:28 PM (#27990 - in reply to #27868) (#27990) TopPosts: 187
Country : New Zealand
kiwijam posted @ 2020-04-15 5:28 PM
chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
@ 2020-04-15 6:11 PM (#27991 - in reply to #27868) (#27991) Top
Posts: 11
Country : Indonesia
athin posted @ 2020-04-15 6:11 PM
For puzzle 11, I have a feeling that sharing an edge is a part of Diamond ruleset instead. This is based on Riad's September 2012 contest if the puzzle is indeed reused: https://logicmastersindia.com/lmitests/dl.asp?attachmentid=269&view=... (puzzle 1).
@ 2020-04-15 6:33 PM (#27992 - in reply to #27990) (#27992) TopPosts: 136
Country : India
anurag posted @ 2020-04-15 6:33 PM
kiwijam - 2020-04-15 5:28 PM
chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
Funny.
@ 2020-04-15 7:11 PM (#27993 - in reply to #27868) (#27993) TopPosts: 45
Country : India
Swagatam posted @ 2020-04-15 7:11 PM
Is this possible that if I put all the numbers outside the grid (which indicate the number of shaded cells) it may lead to multiple solutions? [For Town puzzle or any of this kind of puzzle]
@ 2020-04-15 7:38 PM (#27994 - in reply to #27868) (#27994) TopPosts: 12
Country : Spain
-.ferchx.- posted @ 2020-04-15 7:38 PM
Congratulations for the contest !!
Puzzle 9:
I don't understand very well: "At the same time,starting from theb lack circle, draw a loop along the lines of the grid,passing through all rows and columns."
Can someone explain that to me in more detail?
Thanks.
Puzzle 9:
I don't understand very well: "At the same time,starting from theb lack circle, draw a loop along the lines of the grid,passing through all rows and columns."
Can someone explain that to me in more detail?
Thanks.
@ 2020-04-15 8:56 PM (#27995 - in reply to #27868) (#27995) TopPosts: 12
Country : Spain
-.ferchx.- posted @ 2020-04-15 8:56 PM
Ok, I have seen that it can be solved without understanding it very well...
@ 2020-04-16 4:53 PM (#27997 - in reply to #27990) (#27997) TopPosts: 2
Country : Japan
panista posted @ 2020-04-16 4:53 PM
kiwijam - 2020-04-15 8:28 PM
chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
Thanks kiwijam for summarizing rules, but I don't agree with the interpretation of the rule 11. I agree with athin, the Diamonds rule set includes the border rule.
It becomes a problem in the following case.
(use 2,3,4 cards)
~~~~~~~
D~D~D~~
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
~~D~~~D
~~~~~~~
~~D~~~D
The position of the card 2 is unique or not?
I imagine each participant has different interpretations. It's a pity that the winner will change depending on the Riad's final judge after the contest....
I hope Riad will answer that question as soon as possible not to ruin this wonderful contest.
Edited by panista 2020-04-16 4:55 PM
@ 2020-04-16 6:41 PM (#27998 - in reply to #27993) (#27998) TopPosts: 4
Country : Germany
oe2 posted @ 2020-04-16 6:41 PM
yes
@ 2020-04-16 6:51 PM (#27999 - in reply to #27997) (#27999) TopPosts: 234
Country : Russia
Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-16 6:51 PM
panista - 2020-04-16 4:53 PM
Thanks kiwijam for summarizing rules, but I don't agree with the interpretation of the rule 11. I agree with athin, the Diamonds rule set includes the border rule.
It becomes a problem in the following case.
(use 2,3,4 cards)
~~~~~~~
D~D~D~~
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
~~D~~~D
~~~~~~~
~~D~~~D
The position of the card 2 is unique or not?
I imagine each participant has different interpretations. It's a pity that the winner will change depending on the Riad's final judge after the contest....
I hope Riad will answer that question as soon as possible not to ruin this wonderful contest.
kiwijam - 2020-04-15 8:28 PM
chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
chaotic_iak had a good question: is "Borders of cards cannot have common segments" used when finding the unique contours, or a condition that the unique solution must have?
I assume the latter, see below.
These are not full rules, just helping to explain the official rules.
10.
Construct a normal Clouds/Radar/Regenwolken/Town puzzle. (e.g. https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Regenwolken/index.htm)
It must have a unique solution.
That unique solution cannot have any 2x2 white areas.
Maximize N, the number of white words if this was a crossword grid.
11.
Place diamonds into a grid (no larger than 16x13).
There must be exactly one possible way to place the 9 transparent cards to match all of the diamonds.
That unique solution cannot have two cards sharing an edge, but they can overlap or touch at corners.
Minimize the number of diamonds.
12.
Place some or all of the blue pieces in a 7x7 grid such that they don't touch each other, not even diagonally.
Choose some or all of the black ships to be placed.
N is the number of solutions for placing your black ships.
We don't actually define the black ships in the answer format, but they are found by subtracting the number of blue pieces from the ABCD totals.
Thanks kiwijam for summarizing rules, but I don't agree with the interpretation of the rule 11. I agree with athin, the Diamonds rule set includes the border rule.
It becomes a problem in the following case.
(use 2,3,4 cards)
~~~~~~~
D~D~D~~
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
~~D~~~D
~~~~~~~
~~D~~~D
The position of the card 2 is unique or not?
I imagine each participant has different interpretations. It's a pity that the winner will change depending on the Riad's final judge after the contest....
I hope Riad will answer that question as soon as possible not to ruin this wonderful contest.
I see a unique position for 2. This is a card with diamonds P2C3 and P6C3. What other options are possible?
@ 2020-04-16 7:02 PM (#28000 - in reply to #27868) (#28000) TopPosts: 187
Country : New Zealand
kiwijam posted @ 2020-04-16 7:02 PM
Oh dear. My interpretation was wrong then, that I posted a day ago.
According to my understanding of the rules, this diagram fails the sentence "All transparent cards from 2 to 4 are put on the table so that it is possible to uniquely restore their contours".
Because there are three places the 2-card might fit.
This is the opposite approach to puzzle 10, where the extra rule (no white 2x2) applies to the unique solution, not to the solving process.
Unfortunately it is 1:30am here, and I don't have time to start again...
According to my understanding of the rules, this diagram fails the sentence "All transparent cards from 2 to 4 are put on the table so that it is possible to uniquely restore their contours".
Because there are three places the 2-card might fit.
This is the opposite approach to puzzle 10, where the extra rule (no white 2x2) applies to the unique solution, not to the solving process.
Unfortunately it is 1:30am here, and I don't have time to start again...