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Poll Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September
   LMI Tests -> Monthly Sudoku and Puzzle Tests80 posts • Page 3 of 4 • 1 2 3 4
How frequently you would want to see Sprint tests at LMI?
The aim of the Sprint test is to have relatively easier and less number of puzzles so that many more players can complete the full set. Please let us know if we should have more Sprint tests at LMI.
OptionResults
Once in a month22 Votes - [47.83%]
Once in a quarter18 Votes - [39.13%]
Once in 6 months5 Votes - [10.87%]
Once in a year1 Votes - [2.17%]
Never. This should be the last Sprint Test.0 Votes - [0%]
View Results

debmohanty
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-06 9:22 AM (#5548 - in reply to #5536) (#5548) Top



1000500100100100202020
Location: India
Regarding partial bonus :

Just to repeat what Rakesh and motris posted, partial bonus is not to encourage players to leave early, and get the time bonus. We expect players to be greedy and try to get as much points as possible. Also, the wrong puzzle will be manually checked to determine if the player has tried to solve it genuinely. It is some times difficult in a puzzle test, but I would assume that anyone with 10+ minutes bonus and a wrong answer has tried to solve the puzzle genuinely.

In the upcoming Sudoku test, we'll enforce a rule which requires player to have filled at least x correct cells of the 17 cells to be eligible for partial bonus.
gramar
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-06 12:20 PM (#5549 - in reply to #5455) (#5549) Top




Posts: 9

Location: United Kingdom
As a relatively new puzzler I would love to see some of the easy puzzle tests appear more frequently. I can see your dilemma. For many of the world class puzzlers on here, that would not present much of a challenge, but it would be great occasionally to see a competition aimed at people like myself who are keen (but quite slow!) puzzle solvers. I donlt imagine I could ever compete with the top solvers however hard I practised, but I would still find it fun to enter the competitions and try to beat my own scores etc. At the moment I find I am downloading quite a few of the puzzle booklets and then not submitting my score because it is too low to bother with! I then take away the booklets and do the puzles at leiisure when I can usually complete most of them in the end I have to say I really enjoy the challenge and variety of the puzzles in these tests because you get so bored with all the regular sudokus that appear in every magazine over here! I really enjoyed the Sprint test puzzles, but was just too slow to enter my results!

Just to say I really appreciate all the hard work everyone puts in here - it's a great site. Thank you.
Quela
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-06 2:55 PM (#5551 - in reply to #5455) (#5551) Top




Posts: 1

Location: Italy
I'm a new puzzler and I have tried online puzzle test for the first time, with this Sprint Test. I have appreciate it so much !!
I agree with Gramar. If possible we need other session of puzzle for beginners.
I am slow too, never tried to solve puzzle with timer.
I agree with Forcolin too, about this test was not so "easy" for newbie. The time is not sufficient for who of us that have tried periodically some puzzle on magazines, considering that many of them never appeared on magazines, and the difficult is absolutely not easy for other of new puzzler that have never tried this kind of game, or done it too few time.

Anyway, I will exercise with past tests, and hope do better next time :)

Congratulation for your work !!
swaroop2011
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-06 6:14 PM (#5552 - in reply to #5455) (#5552) Top


WSPC Organizer

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Location: india
can anybody post the solution of horse snake (in form of image).
and how to solve the Galaxies puzzle (i am finding it hard to solve it)
Fred76
Subject: RE: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-06 7:22 PM (#5553 - in reply to #5455) (#5553) Top



Diagonal Vision Author

Posts: 335
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Location: Switzerland
Thanks for the very good and fun puzzles from a beginner point of view.

As the test was designed for beginners/medium level players, and as I fit very well this category, I've some thoughts about this test:

I think that the main thing for me is that there was to many different puzzles if you consider that the goal is to introduce new players to puzzles. Perhaps is it also related to my proper way to approach things:
As a beginner, I would prefer a tournament introducing to me perhaps 4-5 types of puzzles, with 3-4 easy/medium grids for each type, so I could really get into them, memorize rules and become comfortable with them, understand the logic of the puzzle, etc...
The amount of work to become comfortable (without speaking of being really competitive) with a puzzle type is not negligeable (even if it's not comparable with the time spent to create grids and organize such a test), especially for an inexperienced player. With 15 puzzle types, I think it's too much for someone who does not know most types of puzzle. I had not much time to prepare this tournament, so I began to solve puzzle which I already knew enough about the rules and after that, I stopped solving.

It's just a personal point of view about sprint test designed mostly for new players. As you said in the instructions booklet: "Our main objectives with this test are to catch the interest of potential new players, who may be afraid of standard tests which are usually designed for experienced puzzlers"
I was also afraid of the number of new puzzles I had to study to be happy of my performance on this test.


Fred
vopani
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-06 8:53 PM (#5556 - in reply to #5552) (#5556) Top


WSPC Organizer

Posts: 703
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Location: India
swaroop2011 - 2011-09-06 6:14 PM

can anybody post the solution of horse snake (in form of image).
and how to solve the Galaxies puzzle (i am finding it hard to solve it)

Horse Snake was one of my favourites of this test.

Edited by Rohan Rao 2011-09-06 9:42 PM




(HS Solution.png)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments HS Solution.png (9KB - 2 downloads)
vopani
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-06 9:08 PM (#5557 - in reply to #5455) (#5557) Top


WSPC Organizer

Posts: 703
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Location: India
Since a lot of beginners/new-comers/leisure-solvers participate at LMI and many of them do not submit answers due to 'low scores', we can possibly have more tabs on the Results Page. Apart from the complete results, we could have (say) 5 different tabs showing results of only those participants belonging to a certain category (which can be probably based on LMI ratings). So, all players with a rating below 200 can see results of all participants whose rating is below 200. Players whose rating is between 200 and 400 can see results of all participants whose rating is below 400. And so on.
(The number and section of tabs can be discussed).

I dont know how useful it would be, but it could certainly be an interesting part of the Results page. Players can compare their scores with players 'of similar level'.
MellowMelon
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-06 9:33 PM (#5558 - in reply to #5552) (#5558) Top


Fillomino-Fillia 2 Author

100
Location: USA
swaroop2011 - 2011-09-06 6:14 AM

and how to solve the Galaxies puzzle (i am finding it hard to solve it)

I found the Galaxies puzzle pretty nontrivial myself. Here is a text-only logical walkthrough for it.

1. The two bottom right galaxies can be finished first
2. R2C3 has to be part of the galaxy with R4C4; hence R7C6 also is
3. R5C2 has to be part of the galaxy with R4C4; hence R4C7 also is
4. R2C2, R2C1 are both part of galaxy with R3C2; hence R4C2, R4C3 also are
5. The above means R5C6, R5C7 can't be part of the R4C4 galaxy; it can easily be checked only the R6C7 galaxy can contain them
6. This means R8C7, R8C8 are part of that galaxy also
7. The large galaxy in R4C4 has to contain R6C5 to reach R7C6, and symmetrically has to have R3C4 also
8. That means R7C4 can't contain R6C5, hence symmetrically can't contain R8C3
9. Then only the R9C2 galaxy can contain R8C3
10. Notice it also has to contain R9C4, so symmetrically it contains R9C1, R10C2
11. Since the bottom R10C4 galaxy can't contain R10C2, it can't contain R10C6 either, leaving only one galaxy that can (R9C6)
12. This seals off R8C6; that gives more info about the R4C4 galaxy and finishes the R6C7 galaxy
13. Note R5C8 can only be contained by the R4C9 galaxy, so it symmetrically contains R4C10
14. This boxes in a bunch of space on the bottom, so we can actually finish the R4C9 galaxy here
15. R3C10 is hard to get to; only the R2C7 galaxy can contain it, also needing R2C9, R2C10
16. Drawing in the symmetric squares, we can easily finish all of the R1C4, R1C8, R2C7 galaxies
17. This gives us a lot of boxed in space in rows 3 and 4, as well as R2C4 which the R4C4 galaxy has to contain; draw in the symmetric squares
18. As a result, the R7C2 galaxy can't reach R8C2, so R9C2 has to reach it
19. This finishes R9C2, R8C1, R10C4, R9C5
20. From R4C4 containing R2C4, we get R7C4 is a single cell, which finishes off R7C4, R7C2, R6C1, R4C1
21. The remaining three galaxies are easy

If this isn't clear enough (likely), I can try to whip up some images. Broadly speaking, the important thing to recognize is that there are relatively few galaxies that are not on the edge, so that means that there are relatively few options for which galaxies can contain which non-edge squares, and you should focus on this to move forward. For example, step 2 is motivated by seeing the top left corner has almost no one nearby except R3C2 and R4C4, and so you pick a square R3C2 can't reach, such as the one symmetrically opposite the R4C1 galaxy, and the result (R2C3) is probably forced to be a part of the larger one - it is.
Para
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-06 11:41 PM (#5561 - in reply to #5455) (#5561) Top




Posts: 311
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Location: The Netherlands
Hmmm, I worked right to left in that puzzle. Mainly on the fact that cells like R3C10 and R6C910 can only belong to one galaxy, which helps you fill out the whole right top instantly.
swaroop2011
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-07 12:03 AM (#5562 - in reply to #5455) (#5562) Top


WSPC Organizer

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Thank you rohan and mellowmelon..
can u post the final image of galaxies.
if you can tell where i can find few practice puzzles for galaxies and horse snake.


Edited by rakesh_rai 2011-09-07 11:08 AM
rob
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-07 1:00 AM (#5563 - in reply to #5455) (#5563) Top


Classics & Regions (PR 2016/17) Author

Posts: 153
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Location: Germany
There's a ton of Galaxies puzzles at Otto Janko's site: http://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Galaxien/index.htm
Ours brun
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-07 2:17 PM (#5570 - in reply to #5562) (#5570) Top





Posts: 148
1002020
Location: France
swaroop2011 - 2011-09-06 8:03 PM

Thank you rohan and mellowmelon..
can u post the final image of galaxies.
if you can tell where i can find few practice puzzles for galaxies and horse snake.

I will publish a file with all solutions soon.
Regarding Horse Snake, the only such puzzles I know come from Oguz Atay Puzzle Contest 3, organized by Serkan and Gulce. I have some connection problems, so I do not have a link to give you right now.

Some very interesting comments from beginners/average solvers here. I will answer to all this later in the day.
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-07 3:17 PM (#5577 - in reply to #5455) (#5577) Top



Support Administrator, Casual and Word (PR 19) Author

Posts: 729
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Location: India
I noticed that the number of participants in Sprint Test was a new high at LMI. Congratulations to all involved with the test !!!

For the record, here are the Top 5 "Box Office" numbers so far at LMI (excluding ISC/IPC):

Test NameWhen?Total participantsNonzero participants
Sprint TestSeptember 2011264(1)211(1)
Japanese Puzzle LandAugust 2011258(2)203(2)
Fivefold Sudoku TestJuly 2011221(4)199(3)
20/10 Puzzle DecathlonOctober 2010226(3)191(4)
Nikoli Selection IIJuly 2011215(5)
Screen TestDecember 2010183(5)


Edited by rakesh_rai 2011-09-07 4:36 PM
debmohanty
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-07 3:28 PM (#5578 - in reply to #5577) (#5578) Top



1000500100100100202020
Location: India
we probably shouldn't including ISC 2011
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-07 4:09 PM (#5579 - in reply to #5455) (#5579) Top



Support Administrator, Casual and Word (PR 19) Author

Posts: 729
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Location: India
OK. ISC/IPC excluded now from the list.
swaroop2011
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-07 6:39 PM (#5586 - in reply to #5570) (#5586) Top


WSPC Organizer

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Ours brun - 2011-09-07 2:17 PM

swaroop2011 - 2011-09-06 8:03 PM

Thank you rohan and mellowmelon..
can u post the final image of galaxies.
if you can tell where i can find few practice puzzles for galaxies and horse snake.

I will publish a file with all solutions soon.
Regarding Horse Snake, the only such puzzles I know come from Oguz Atay Puzzle Contest 3, organized by Serkan and Gulce. I have some connection problems, so I do not have a link to give you right now.

Some very interesting comments from beginners/average solvers here. I will answer to all this later in the day.


I tried but then i didnt found anything.
if you can post the link later also its fine.
debmohanty
Subject: Re: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-08 1:25 AM (#5590 - in reply to #5586) (#5590) Top



1000500100100100202020
Location: India
swaroop2011 - 2011-09-07 6:39 PM

I tried but then i didnt found anything.
if you can post the link later also its fine.


Swaroop, it is very simple. Try again.

Open the IB and go to the last page. It is printed that Horse Snake appeared in "O?uz Atay Puzzle Contest 3"
Now google for "O?uz Atay Puzzle Contest 3"
The first link you get, you will see the IB and PB.
Puzzle booklet has 4 puzzles of Horse Snake type.
Ours brun
Subject: RE: Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September @ 2011-09-09 5:37 PM (#5599 - in reply to #5455) (#5599) Top





Posts: 148
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Location: France
Sorry for the delay, I have big difficulties to get a connection these days.

forcolin

Apart from this, the puzzle set was good (I like particularly the FORTRESS), but in my opinion the puzzles were not exactly "EASY" as defined somewhere (I had a debate with Deb on a different forum). Easier than usual, OK; the contest was solvable in the 75 minutes time, OK, (although my target seemed to me unrealistic, other players of similar level have achieved it), but if the target was to attract new players I believe only a few 5 or 10 points diagrams were simple enough for beginners.

Quela

I agree with Forcolin too, about this test was not so "easy" for newbie. The time is not sufficient for who of us that have tried periodically some puzzle on magazines, considering that many of them never appeared on magazines, and the difficult is absolutely not easy for other of new puzzler that have never tried this kind of game, or done it too few time.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Stefano, I don't know to what "somewhere" you are referring, but I was careful to say "rather easy" in the Instruction Booklet, since I knew that no two people agree on the definition of "easy".
One precision first : the idea was not to have puzzles that beginners may find easy. It was to have puzzles which would be easy enough so that beginners may be able to solve them, which is not exactly the same thing. However your point is still valid ; not all the puzzles were solvable in a reasonable time by beginners, and some were simply too tough for such a test. It is always hard to determine this, in particular for types such as Fortress or Galaxies that never appear in competitions. That is why we were attached to the fact of having some feedbacks : they will certainly be useful to the organizers of future such tests.

Fred76
I think that the main thing for me is that there was to many different puzzles if you consider that the goal is to introduce new players to puzzles.

Very interesting remark. My idea was that, with many puzzle types, a beginner would always find some puzzles to his likes. The weakness of this choice is obvious indeed : adapting to these 15 types in a very short time is out of reach of a beginner. Certainly something to keep in mind. One idea that comes to my mind is a series of tests each dedicated to a theme : loop puzzles, latin squares, etc. In each test, 5 puzzle types, 3 puzzles per type. Maybe there is an idea to dig, here.

Here is a file with all solutions : Link
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