Kakuro Kart (20th Jun - 10th Jul) has started Discuss
Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 158 posts • Page 1 of 3 • 1 2 3
@ 2010-10-03 4:08 PM (#2028 - in reply to #2027) (#2028) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2010-10-03 4:08 PM

Yes, it is "connected".
@ 2010-10-04 1:35 PM (#2034 - in reply to #2014) (#2034) Top

David McNeill



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David McNeill posted @ 2010-10-04 1:35 PM

Is it possible to provide a link to a "real" Suraromu puzzle? I have never seen one of these before and do not subscribe to nikoli.

Thank you,

David McNeill.
@ 2010-10-04 1:42 PM (#2035 - in reply to #2034) (#2035) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-04 1:42 PM

@ 2010-10-04 9:28 PM (#2043 - in reply to #2014) (#2043) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2010-10-04 9:28 PM

Can we solve the three marathon puzzles before the 1st 18?
@ 2010-10-04 10:29 PM (#2046 - in reply to #2043) (#2046) Top

amitsowani




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amitsowani posted @ 2010-10-04 10:29 PM

Yes you can, but it might be preferable to solve the 18 basic puzzles first to ensure a time bonus.
@ 2010-10-04 10:56 PM (#2049 - in reply to #2014) (#2049) Top

rajeshk



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rajeshk posted @ 2010-10-04 10:56 PM

For the LITS puzzle, do we need to use all the pieces i.e L, I, T, S at least once?



@ 2010-10-04 10:59 PM (#2050 - in reply to #2049) (#2050) Top

amitsowani




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amitsowani posted @ 2010-10-04 10:59 PM

It is not necessary to use all pieces. The rules do not require that.
@ 2010-10-05 5:04 AM (#2054 - in reply to #2043) (#2054) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-05 5:04 AM

Rohan Rao - 2010-10-04 9:28 PM

Can we solve the three marathon puzzles before the 1st 18?
As mentioned in the IB, The "point value" of a main puzzle > The "point value" of a marathon puzzle > The "point value" of time bonus
[ "Point Value" is points you get for spending a minute ]
To secure more points, you should be doing the main puzzles first.
@ 2010-10-05 2:13 PM (#2063 - in reply to #2054) (#2063) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2010-10-05 2:13 PM

For Numberlink, does every cell need to be filled? The rules currently do not say so, but it seems to be implied (indirectly) as the answer key has no mention of blank cells.

The IB mentions marathon puzzles as "...finest tradition of fold out Nikoli puzzles..." - What is meant by fold out puzzles? Does it mean large puzzles which exceed the regular page size?
@ 2010-10-05 2:23 PM (#2064 - in reply to #2063) (#2064) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-05 2:23 PM

rakesh_rai - 2010-10-05 2:13 PM
For Numberlink, does every cell need to be filled? The rules currently do not say so, but it seems to be implied (indirectly) as the answer key has no mention of blank cells.
Lets wait till Tom comments on this tomorrow. In the meantime I suggest take a look this wonderful analysis by Tom on using-all-cells-in-NumberLink
http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/tcollyer/entry/friday_puzzles_71/

Also, the very very nice primer by mellowmelon on how to solve Numberlinks : http://mellowmelon.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/numberlink-primer/

rakesh_rai - 2010-10-05 2:13 PM
The IB mentions marathon puzzles as "...finest tradition of fold out Nikoli puzzles..." - What is meant by fold out puzzles? Does it mean large puzzles which exceed the regular page size?

I myself have never seen traditional "fold-out" Nikoli puzzles. I'll be surely interested in seeing one, if anyone can share.
But, yes, the "marathon" puzzles are little larger than the "main" puzzles :-)
@ 2010-10-05 8:53 PM (#2067 - in reply to #2014) (#2067) Top

motris



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motris posted @ 2010-10-05 8:53 PM

Nikoli's main magazine is about 15cm by 25 cm which is good for having several "standard" puzzles on a page but not always for very large puzzles, so each one has a fold-out page with two extra large puzzles that is 30 cm by 25 cm. Nikoli puzzles come in certain standard sizes, so types like Masyu tend to be 10x10 or 18x10 or 17x17 in white cells. A fold-out puzzle is 64x50 typically, and takes at least an hour for the "expert time" (Nikoli puzzles come with time ratings sometimes).

I have a feeling these are not true fold-out puzzles, but are certainly very large. There is an intermediate size - what I'd call a "full-page" Nikoli puzzle - which are 31x45. A whole magazine, "Giants", has just full-page and fold-out puzzles and is my favorite thing to purchase since each puzzle is very carefully constructed but takes awhile to solve. Nikoli has also released 2 "poster" sized kakuro (124 x 90) and slitherlink (178 x 128), which are quite formidable challenges, probably taking at least a day if not a week to finish, considering possible mistakes. See here: Large Kakuro
@ 2010-10-06 9:25 AM (#2068 - in reply to #2067) (#2068) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2010-10-06 9:25 AM

Thanks Deb and MoTriS. The links on numberlink were quite a good read. Hopefully, it will help me (and many others) to solve the numberlink in the coming LMI puzzle test. Also, after looking at the picture of the kakuro poster, the slim chances of trying even one of the marathon puzzles have become even slimmer.

No partial bonus this time?
@ 2010-10-06 2:40 PM (#2069 - in reply to #2064) (#2069) Top

detuned



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detuned posted @ 2010-10-06 2:40 PM

rakesh_rai - 2010-10-05 2:13 PM
For Numberlink, does every cell need to be filled? The rules currently do not say so, but it seems to be implied (indirectly) as the answer key has no mention of blank cells.


There is no requirement that all cells need to be used for numberlink, and there are plenty of examples where all squares haven't been used, however I'd say it's pretty likely that all the cells will be used in the answer keys at least, given that oversight. If you read MellowMelon's primer, you can decide for yourself whether this extra information will be of any practical use. :)

The "marathon puzzles" are big enough to sensibly fill an A4 page, without being too small. Motris is right in assuming they are big, but not THAT big.
@ 2010-10-07 8:30 PM (#2081 - in reply to #2068) (#2081) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2010-10-07 8:30 PM

rakesh_rai - 2010-10-06 9:25 AM
No partial bonus this time?

After discussing with Tom, this is what we decided.
Keeping in mind that WPC is only few weeks away where you *mostly* get 0 for a wrong answer, there is no partial bonus this time.
Also the bonus system is already fairly complex with the marathon puzzles.
@ 2010-10-08 12:01 PM (#2082 - in reply to #2014) (#2082) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-08 12:01 PM

Announcements

1. For HEYAWAKE in main section -
The answer key will be different that what it is specified in the IB

New Answer key: Enter the number of shaded cells in the 3th row, followed by the number of shaded cells in the 3rd column.

For the example the answer is 0,2

2. For HEYAWAKE in marathon section
The answer key is same as what it was mentioned in the IB. Enter the number of shaded cells in the marked rooms.

3. For Kakuro (both main and marathon section)
Instead of rows / columns, some sums will be marked. Players need to enter the digits for them.

Answer Key : Digits in marked horizontal sum 11, followed by digits in marked vertical Sum 24
For the example posted above : The answer is 5132, 798
@ 2010-10-08 12:58 PM (#2085 - in reply to #2014) (#2085) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2010-10-08 12:58 PM

The puzzle booklet will be uploaded around mid-night (IST).

For all puzzles where rows and columns are to be entered - they will be explicitly marked in the puzzle booklet by arrows.

The puzzles in the booklet will be sorted in ascending order of points.
P01 - Numberlink
P02 - Hashi
P03 - Sudoku
P04 - Surarumo
P05 - Akari
P06 - Masyu
P07 - Fillomino
P08 - Hitori
P09 - Slitherlink
P10 - Shikaku
P11 - Yajilin
P12 - Nurikabe
P13 - Kakuro
P14 - Yajilin
P15 - Heyawake
P16 - LITS
P17 - Nurikabe
P18 - Slitherlink
@ 2010-10-09 12:56 AM (#2089 - in reply to #2014) (#2089) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2010-10-09 12:56 AM

Password protected pdfs uploaded.
Note that the marathon puzzles are in a separate pdf.
Both the pds share the same password (which obviously will be displayed after you start the test)

Password for marathon pdf is different than main puzzle pdf. Both passwords will be displayed after you start the test

edited by debmohanty at 2010-10-09 6:20 PM
@ 2010-10-09 4:08 AM (#2090 - in reply to #2089) (#2090) Top

detuned



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detuned posted @ 2010-10-09 4:08 AM

At this point, I'd just like to thank all the help and support I got from Deb and testers - absolutely top stuff guys and this wouldn't have happened without you!
@ 2010-10-09 6:25 AM (#2091 - in reply to #2014) (#2091) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2010-10-09 6:25 AM

"Nikoli Selection" has started. All the best to everyone.
@ 2010-10-09 3:24 PM (#2093 - in reply to #2091) (#2093) Top

amitsowani




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amitsowani posted @ 2010-10-09 3:24 PM

We would like to apologize for mistakes in some of the puzzles.
1) The LITS image in the pdf is incorrect. We have uploaded an updated pdf. So all participants who are yet to participate please download the updated version.
2) The Nurikabe 10X10 puzzle is incorrect.
3) The Numberlinks puzzle has multiple solutions.
4) The Heyawake marathon puzzle is incorrect.

Extremely sorry for participants have already taken the test. I am sure you must have had a great time solving the rest of the puzzles. Hope it will serve as great practice for the WPC.

Password for marathon pdf is different than main puzzle pdf. Both passwords will be displayed after you start the test
@ 2010-10-09 3:40 PM (#2094 - in reply to #2093) (#2094) Top

amitsowani




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amitsowani posted @ 2010-10-09 3:40 PM

Meanwhile we have also double checked all the other puzzles.
So all participants can proceed confidently with the puzzles without having to worry about inaccuracy or non uniqueness.
@ 2010-10-09 3:47 PM (#2095 - in reply to #2093) (#2095) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2010-10-09 3:47 PM

amitsowani - 2010-10-09 3:24 PM

1) The LITS image in the pdf is incorrect. We have uploaded an updated pdf. So all participants who are yet to participate please download the updated version.
2) The Nurikabe 10X10 puzzle is incorrect.
3) The Numberlinks puzzle has multiple solutions.


I am yet to take the test. It seems the updated pdf will have correct grid for LITS. As regard Nurikabe and Numberlinks - how are the points going to be awarded for these puzzles?
@ 2010-10-09 4:07 PM (#2096 - in reply to #2014) (#2096) Top

StGeorge



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StGeorge posted @ 2010-10-09 4:07 PM

Frankly, I am a bit disappointed by the mistakes, as I wasted some time trying to fix the nurikabe and the LITS is a lot of points, but then again it's not like I was going to win anything anyway. I'll just solve the corrected versions and when I see my low score I'll have an excuse :P Still, I hope the people responsible take something out of this and be more careful next time :)

I haven't even started the marathon puzzles. Judging by Tom's post yesterday, I'm in for a treat :)
@ 2010-10-09 4:18 PM (#2097 - in reply to #2096) (#2097) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-09 4:18 PM

StGeorge - 2010-10-09 4:07 PM

Frankly, I am a bit disappointed by the mistakes, as I wasted some time trying to fix the nurikabe and the LITS is a lot of points, but then again it's not like I was going to win anything anyway. I'll just solve the corrected versions and when I see my low score I'll have an excuse :P Still, I hope the people responsible take something out of this and be more careful next time :)
We understand yours frustration about spending time on those two puzzles.
After the announcement, we hope that players who are yet to play will enjoy remaining puzzles.
@ 2010-10-09 4:33 PM (#2098 - in reply to #2093) (#2098) Top

detuned



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detuned posted @ 2010-10-09 4:33 PM

I will take the blame here for this disaster - just not good enough I'm afraid.

We are currently discussing what to do. I have proposed the following:

-the nurikabe and numberlink are broken beyond repair and ought to be removed from the test (bringing the total score for the first section down to 920). Participants who have already finished the test should be compensated for the wasted time.

-the LITS is fixable. What will happen here is either the same as for the numberlink and the nurikabe - or else a new PB will be uploaded, and all earlier participants will be awarded the full points.

Once again, my sincerest apologies
Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 158 posts • Page 1 of 3 • 1 2 3
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