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Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1
   LMI Tests -> Monthly Sudoku and Puzzle Tests58 posts • Page 1 of 3 • 1 2 3
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-05 2:13 PM (#2063 - in reply to #2054) (#2063) Top



Mean Minis (2020) Author

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For Numberlink, does every cell need to be filled? The rules currently do not say so, but it seems to be implied (indirectly) as the answer key has no mention of blank cells.

The IB mentions marathon puzzles as "...finest tradition of fold out Nikoli puzzles..." - What is meant by fold out puzzles? Does it mean large puzzles which exceed the regular page size?
debmohanty
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-05 2:23 PM (#2064 - in reply to #2063) (#2064) Top



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rakesh_rai - 2010-10-05 2:13 PM
For Numberlink, does every cell need to be filled? The rules currently do not say so, but it seems to be implied (indirectly) as the answer key has no mention of blank cells.
Lets wait till Tom comments on this tomorrow. In the meantime I suggest take a look this wonderful analysis by Tom on using-all-cells-in-NumberLink
http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/tcollyer/entry/friday_puzzles_71/

Also, the very very nice primer by mellowmelon on how to solve Numberlinks : http://mellowmelon.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/numberlink-primer/

rakesh_rai - 2010-10-05 2:13 PM
The IB mentions marathon puzzles as "...finest tradition of fold out Nikoli puzzles..." - What is meant by fold out puzzles? Does it mean large puzzles which exceed the regular page size?

I myself have never seen traditional "fold-out" Nikoli puzzles. I'll be surely interested in seeing one, if anyone can share.
But, yes, the "marathon" puzzles are little larger than the "main" puzzles :-)
motris
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-05 8:53 PM (#2067 - in reply to #2014) (#2067) Top




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Nikoli's main magazine is about 15cm by 25 cm which is good for having several "standard" puzzles on a page but not always for very large puzzles, so each one has a fold-out page with two extra large puzzles that is 30 cm by 25 cm. Nikoli puzzles come in certain standard sizes, so types like Masyu tend to be 10x10 or 18x10 or 17x17 in white cells. A fold-out puzzle is 64x50 typically, and takes at least an hour for the "expert time" (Nikoli puzzles come with time ratings sometimes).

I have a feeling these are not true fold-out puzzles, but are certainly very large. There is an intermediate size - what I'd call a "full-page" Nikoli puzzle - which are 31x45. A whole magazine, "Giants", has just full-page and fold-out puzzles and is my favorite thing to purchase since each puzzle is very carefully constructed but takes awhile to solve. Nikoli has also released 2 "poster" sized kakuro (124 x 90) and slitherlink (178 x 128), which are quite formidable challenges, probably taking at least a day if not a week to finish, considering possible mistakes. See here: Large Kakuro
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-06 9:25 AM (#2068 - in reply to #2067) (#2068) Top



Mean Minis (2020) Author

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Thanks Deb and MoTriS. The links on numberlink were quite a good read. Hopefully, it will help me (and many others) to solve the numberlink in the coming LMI puzzle test. Also, after looking at the picture of the kakuro poster, the slim chances of trying even one of the marathon puzzles have become even slimmer.

No partial bonus this time?
detuned
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-06 2:40 PM (#2069 - in reply to #2064) (#2069) Top




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rakesh_rai - 2010-10-05 2:13 PM
For Numberlink, does every cell need to be filled? The rules currently do not say so, but it seems to be implied (indirectly) as the answer key has no mention of blank cells.


There is no requirement that all cells need to be used for numberlink, and there are plenty of examples where all squares haven't been used, however I'd say it's pretty likely that all the cells will be used in the answer keys at least, given that oversight. If you read MellowMelon's primer, you can decide for yourself whether this extra information will be of any practical use. :)

The "marathon puzzles" are big enough to sensibly fill an A4 page, without being too small. Motris is right in assuming they are big, but not THAT big.
Administrator
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-07 8:30 PM (#2081 - in reply to #2068) (#2081) Top


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rakesh_rai - 2010-10-06 9:25 AM
No partial bonus this time?

After discussing with Tom, this is what we decided.
Keeping in mind that WPC is only few weeks away where you *mostly* get 0 for a wrong answer, there is no partial bonus this time.
Also the bonus system is already fairly complex with the marathon puzzles.
debmohanty
Subject: RE: Nikoli Selection - Announcements @ 2010-10-08 12:01 PM (#2082 - in reply to #2014) (#2082) Top



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Announcements

1. For HEYAWAKE in main section -
The answer key will be different that what it is specified in the IB

New Answer key: Enter the number of shaded cells in the 3th row, followed by the number of shaded cells in the 3rd column.

For the example the answer is 0,2

2. For HEYAWAKE in marathon section
The answer key is same as what it was mentioned in the IB. Enter the number of shaded cells in the marked rooms.

3. For Kakuro (both main and marathon section)
Instead of rows / columns, some sums will be marked. Players need to enter the digits for them.

Answer Key : Digits in marked horizontal sum 11, followed by digits in marked vertical Sum 24
For the example posted above : The answer is 5132, 798
Administrator
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-08 12:58 PM (#2085 - in reply to #2014) (#2085) Top


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The puzzle booklet will be uploaded around mid-night (IST).

For all puzzles where rows and columns are to be entered - they will be explicitly marked in the puzzle booklet by arrows.

The puzzles in the booklet will be sorted in ascending order of points.
P01 - Numberlink
P02 - Hashi
P03 - Sudoku
P04 - Surarumo
P05 - Akari
P06 - Masyu
P07 - Fillomino
P08 - Hitori
P09 - Slitherlink
P10 - Shikaku
P11 - Yajilin
P12 - Nurikabe
P13 - Kakuro
P14 - Yajilin
P15 - Heyawake
P16 - LITS
P17 - Nurikabe
P18 - Slitherlink
Administrator
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 12:56 AM (#2089 - in reply to #2014) (#2089) Top


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Password protected pdfs uploaded.
Note that the marathon puzzles are in a separate pdf.
Both the pds share the same password (which obviously will be displayed after you start the test)

Password for marathon pdf is different than main puzzle pdf. Both passwords will be displayed after you start the test

edited by debmohanty at 2010-10-09 6:20 PM
detuned
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 4:08 AM (#2090 - in reply to #2089) (#2090) Top




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At this point, I'd just like to thank all the help and support I got from Deb and testers - absolutely top stuff guys and this wouldn't have happened without you!
Administrator
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 6:25 AM (#2091 - in reply to #2014) (#2091) Top


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"Nikoli Selection" has started. All the best to everyone.
amitsowani
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 3:24 PM (#2093 - in reply to #2091) (#2093) Top



PR 2020 (Casual and Word) Author

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We would like to apologize for mistakes in some of the puzzles.
1) The LITS image in the pdf is incorrect. We have uploaded an updated pdf. So all participants who are yet to participate please download the updated version.
2) The Nurikabe 10X10 puzzle is incorrect.
3) The Numberlinks puzzle has multiple solutions.
4) The Heyawake marathon puzzle is incorrect.

Extremely sorry for participants have already taken the test. I am sure you must have had a great time solving the rest of the puzzles. Hope it will serve as great practice for the WPC.

Password for marathon pdf is different than main puzzle pdf. Both passwords will be displayed after you start the test
amitsowani
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 3:40 PM (#2094 - in reply to #2093) (#2094) Top



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Meanwhile we have also double checked all the other puzzles.
So all participants can proceed confidently with the puzzles without having to worry about inaccuracy or non uniqueness.
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 3:47 PM (#2095 - in reply to #2093) (#2095) Top



Mean Minis (2020) Author

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amitsowani - 2010-10-09 3:24 PM

1) The LITS image in the pdf is incorrect. We have uploaded an updated pdf. So all participants who are yet to participate please download the updated version.
2) The Nurikabe 10X10 puzzle is incorrect.
3) The Numberlinks puzzle has multiple solutions.


I am yet to take the test. It seems the updated pdf will have correct grid for LITS. As regard Nurikabe and Numberlinks - how are the points going to be awarded for these puzzles?
StGeorge
Subject: RE: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 4:07 PM (#2096 - in reply to #2014) (#2096) Top




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Frankly, I am a bit disappointed by the mistakes, as I wasted some time trying to fix the nurikabe and the LITS is a lot of points, but then again it's not like I was going to win anything anyway. I'll just solve the corrected versions and when I see my low score I'll have an excuse :P Still, I hope the people responsible take something out of this and be more careful next time :)

I haven't even started the marathon puzzles. Judging by Tom's post yesterday, I'm in for a treat :)
debmohanty
Subject: RE: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 4:18 PM (#2097 - in reply to #2096) (#2097) Top



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StGeorge - 2010-10-09 4:07 PM

Frankly, I am a bit disappointed by the mistakes, as I wasted some time trying to fix the nurikabe and the LITS is a lot of points, but then again it's not like I was going to win anything anyway. I'll just solve the corrected versions and when I see my low score I'll have an excuse :P Still, I hope the people responsible take something out of this and be more careful next time :)
We understand yours frustration about spending time on those two puzzles.
After the announcement, we hope that players who are yet to play will enjoy remaining puzzles.
detuned
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 4:33 PM (#2098 - in reply to #2093) (#2098) Top




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I will take the blame here for this disaster - just not good enough I'm afraid.

We are currently discussing what to do. I have proposed the following:

-the nurikabe and numberlink are broken beyond repair and ought to be removed from the test (bringing the total score for the first section down to 920). Participants who have already finished the test should be compensated for the wasted time.

-the LITS is fixable. What will happen here is either the same as for the numberlink and the nurikabe - or else a new PB will be uploaded, and all earlier participants will be awarded the full points.

Once again, my sincerest apologies
yureklis
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 5:30 PM (#2099 - in reply to #2014) (#2099) Top


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I opened the first file but I have trouble with opening the marathon file. I downloaded it again but it does not accept the password (which was said to be common for both files). Is there something that I am missing?
Administrator
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 5:34 PM (#2100 - in reply to #2099) (#2100) Top


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yureklis - 2010-10-09 5:30 PM

I opened the first file but I have trouble with opening the marathon file. I downloaded it again but it does not accept the password (which was said to be common for both files). Is there something that I am missing?
Sent you password for marathon. check your forum inbox
debmohanty
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 5:43 PM (#2101 - in reply to #2099) (#2101) Top



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yureklis - 2010-10-09 5:30 PM

I opened the first file but I have trouble with opening the marathon file. I downloaded it again but it does not accept the password (which was said to be common for both files). Is there something that I am missing?


Both the files have 2 different passwords now. Both passwords are displayed in the submission page after you start the test.
amitsowani
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 6:03 PM (#2102 - in reply to #2101) (#2102) Top



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Reposting to make sure that everyone has read this post:

1) The LITS image in the pdf is incorrect. We have uploaded an updated pdf. So all participants who are yet to participate please download the updated version.
2) The Nurikabe 10X10 puzzle is incorrect.
3) The Numberlinks puzzle has multiple solutions.
4) The Heyawake marathon puzzle is incorrect.

Password for marathon pdf is different than main puzzle pdf. Both passwords will be displayed after you start the test
Akuma21
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 9:38 PM (#2108 - in reply to #2014) (#2108) Top




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A good set of puzzle, i like it! I have done only a stupid error in hashi'answer key; i have entered the number of all double bridges.
Good luck to everyone!
Deyan
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 11:15 PM (#2109 - in reply to #2014) (#2109) Top




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Location: Bulgaria
I had the bad luck to solve the wrong PDF.

This is what I found:
#1 Numberlink - multiple solutions
When I realized it, I just found a solution that is using all cells and got points
#5 Akari - 4 solutions
For luck, all solutions have the same answer, so no problems with it
#12 Nurikabe - wrong image
I spent a lot of time on it. After time limit I solved the bigger Nurikabe for about 1/3 of the time I spent on this.
Actually, it's very easily fixable: just change '4' to '3' at R5C10
#16 LITS
I also spent some time until found it's wrong (one small line, but a big difference)
detuned
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-09 11:53 PM (#2110 - in reply to #2109) (#2110) Top




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For anyone wondering what the big heyawake should have looked like:

Puzzle: http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~marear/36x20_heyawake.png
(and solution: http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~marear/36x20_heyawake_solution.png)

Please accept this as something of an apology :)
debmohanty
Subject: Re: Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1 @ 2010-10-10 1:06 AM (#2111 - in reply to #2109) (#2111) Top



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Deyan - 2010-10-09 11:15 PM

I had the bad luck to solve the wrong PDF.
#5 Akari - 4 solutions
For luck, all solutions have the same answer, so no problems with it
Sorry again about the problems.
#5 Akari has one solution. Please check your email.
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