Thread - Nikoli Selection - LMI October Puzzle Test 1

@ 2010-10-09 4:33 PM (#2098 - in reply to #2093) (#2098) Top

detuned

Posts: 152

Country : United Kingdom

detuned posted @ 2010-10-09 4:33 PM

I will take the blame here for this disaster - just not good enough I'm afraid.

We are currently discussing what to do. I have proposed the following:

-the nurikabe and numberlink are broken beyond repair and ought to be removed from the test (bringing the total score for the first section down to 920). Participants who have already finished the test should be compensated for the wasted time.

-the LITS is fixable. What will happen here is either the same as for the numberlink and the nurikabe - or else a new PB will be uploaded, and all earlier participants will be awarded the full points.

Once again, my sincerest apologies

@ 2010-10-09 5:30 PM (#2099 - in reply to #2014) (#2099) Top

yureklis

Posts: 183

Country : Turkey

yureklis posted @ 2010-10-09 5:30 PM

I opened the first file but I have trouble with opening the marathon file. I downloaded it again but it does not accept the password (which was said to be common for both files). Is there something that I am missing?

@ 2010-10-09 5:34 PM (#2100 - in reply to #2099) (#2100) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2010-10-09 5:34 PM

yureklis - 2010-10-09 5:30 PM

I opened the first file but I have trouble with opening the marathon file. I downloaded it again but it does not accept the password (which was said to be common for both files). Is there something that I am missing?

Sent you password for marathon. check your forum inbox

@ 2010-10-09 5:43 PM (#2101 - in reply to #2099) (#2101) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-09 5:43 PM

Both the files have 2 different passwords now. Both passwords are displayed in the submission page after you start the test.

@ 2010-10-09 6:03 PM (#2102 - in reply to #2101) (#2102) Top

amitsowani

Posts: 349

Country : India

amitsowani posted @ 2010-10-09 6:03 PM

Reposting to make sure that everyone has read this post:

1) The LITS image in the pdf is incorrect. We have uploaded an updated pdf. So all participants who are yet to participate please download the updated version.
2) The Nurikabe 10X10 puzzle is incorrect.
3) The Numberlinks puzzle has multiple solutions.
4) The Heyawake marathon puzzle is incorrect.

Password for marathon pdf is different than main puzzle pdf. Both passwords will be displayed after you start the test

@ 2010-10-09 9:38 PM (#2108 - in reply to #2014) (#2108) Top

Akuma21

Posts: 22

Country : ITALY

Akuma21 posted @ 2010-10-09 9:38 PM

A good set of puzzle, i like it! I have done only a stupid error in hashi'answer key; i have entered the number of all double bridges.
Good luck to everyone!

@ 2010-10-09 11:15 PM (#2109 - in reply to #2014) (#2109) Top

Deyan

Posts: 7

Country : Bulgaria

Deyan posted @ 2010-10-09 11:15 PM

I had the bad luck to solve the wrong PDF.

This is what I found:
#1 Numberlink - multiple solutions
When I realized it, I just found a solution that is using all cells and got points
#5 Akari - 4 solutions
For luck, all solutions have the same answer, so no problems with it
#12 Nurikabe - wrong image
I spent a lot of time on it. After time limit I solved the bigger Nurikabe for about 1/3 of the time I spent on this.
Actually, it's very easily fixable: just change '4' to '3' at R5C10
#16 LITS
I also spent some time until found it's wrong (one small line, but a big difference)

@ 2010-10-09 11:53 PM (#2110 - in reply to #2109) (#2110) Top

detuned

Posts: 152

Country : United Kingdom

detuned posted @ 2010-10-09 11:53 PM

For anyone wondering what the big heyawake should have looked like:

Puzzle: http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~marear/36x20_heyawake.png
(and solution: http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~marear/36x20_heyawake_solution.png)

Please accept this as something of an apology :)

@ 2010-10-10 1:06 AM (#2111 - in reply to #2109) (#2111) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-10 1:06 AM

Deyan - 2010-10-09 11:15 PM

I had the bad luck to solve the wrong PDF.
#5 Akari - 4 solutions
For luck, all solutions have the same answer, so no problems with it

Sorry again about the problems.
#5 Akari has one solution. Please check your email.

@ 2010-10-10 1:57 AM (#2112 - in reply to #2111) (#2112) Top

Deyan

Posts: 7

Country : Bulgaria

Deyan posted @ 2010-10-10 1:57 AM

debmohanty - 2010-10-09 9:06 PM

Deyan - 2010-10-09 11:15 PM

I had the bad luck to solve the wrong PDF.
#5 Akari - 4 solutions
For luck, all solutions have the same answer, so no problems with it

Sorry again about the problems.
#5 Akari has one solution. Please check your email.

Oops

You are right. I should change my notation for this puzzle.

@ 2010-10-10 4:36 AM (#2113 - in reply to #2014) (#2113) Top

StGeorge

Posts: 11

Country : Bulgaria

StGeorge posted @ 2010-10-10 4:36 AM

The heyawake marathon was wrong? I didn't notice. It did take me quite a while to solve it - about 75 minutes - but I didn't see any mistakes. I'm sure I can easily be missing something and the correct version that Tom posted looks quite a bit different. Can someone tell me what the mistake is? Or is it that the one in the booklet is still a valid heyawake, just not the one that was intended? That would be a weird happenstance :)

@ 2010-10-10 5:37 AM (#2114 - in reply to #2113) (#2114) Top

detuned

Posts: 152

Country : United Kingdom

detuned posted @ 2010-10-10 5:37 AM

I didn't notice either

- until it was too late.

There was a thing quite early on in the solve where you have a choice between either entirely surrounding an empty square with shaded squares, or else leaving 3 rooms empty in a row. The latter option was apparently quite subtle as I must have passed over it at least four or five times. Either that, or I'm an idiot.

The new version is basically a fiddle to change as little of the solving experience (after wrongly assuming the 3 empty rooms in a row) as possible - I'd estimate about 80% of the puzzle solves the same.

Edited by detuned 2010-10-10 5:39 AM

@ 2010-10-10 10:24 AM (#2115 - in reply to #2014) (#2115) Top

motris

Posts: 199

Country : United States

motris posted @ 2010-10-10 10:24 AM

I obviously had the benefit of the "improved" test, but that won't keep me from my typical counting error (on the highest possible valued puzzle to boot). Got through all the solvable puzzles though. I think the marathon Kakuro was guilty of being too cute (not a good thing in a competition), but otherwise a lot of very fun puzzles to solve. Thanks for the puzzles Tom.

Edited by motris 2010-10-10 10:25 AM

@ 2010-10-10 2:40 PM (#2117 - in reply to #2014) (#2117) Top

StGeorge

Posts: 11

Country : Bulgaria

StGeorge posted @ 2010-10-10 2:40 PM

Yeah, I found the spot and fixed it up with the new image, it should be ok now :)

By the way, the masyu marathon was pretty fun, I had a couple of warm, fuzzy "Oooh" moments solving it :P

@ 2010-10-10 2:54 PM (#2118 - in reply to #2014) (#2118) Top

forcolin

Posts: 172

Country : ITALY

forcolin posted @ 2010-10-10 2:54 PM

I made it too although my PC froze as soon as I copy/pasted the pw. Had to reset and reboot and lost 5-6 minutes. Therefore I guess this time motris will beat me

Nice set of puzzles, although I did not always find a straight relationship between the points awarded and the difficulty level. Thanks Tom, better luck for the future

stefano
ps: how do I rate the puzzles?

Edited by forcolin 2010-10-10 2:55 PM

@ 2010-10-10 5:29 PM (#2119 - in reply to #2014) (#2119) Top

rajeshk

Posts: 542

Country : India

rajeshk posted @ 2010-10-10 5:29 PM

Nice set of puzzles. Made one error while submitting the answer to lost 100 points. Do take care while submitting your answers.

@ 2010-10-10 6:38 PM (#2124 - in reply to #2118) (#2124) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-10 6:38 PM

forcolin - 2010-10-10 2:54 PM
ps: how do I rate the puzzles?

In the submission page, below each puzzle name there are 10 dots.
The left-most dot is for 1-star and the right-most dot is for 10-stars. You can move your mouse over the dot to see.

@ 2010-10-10 9:34 PM (#2126 - in reply to #2102) (#2126) Top

Gotroch

Posts: 83

Country : Czech Republic

Gotroch posted @ 2010-10-10 9:34 PM

amitsowani - 2010-10-09 6:03 PM

Reposting to make sure that everyone has read this post:

1) The LITS image in the pdf is incorrect. We have uploaded an updated pdf. So all participants who are yet to participate please download the updated version.
2) The Nurikabe 10X10 puzzle is incorrect.
3) The Numberlinks puzzle has multiple solutions.
4) The Heyawake marathon puzzle is incorrect.

Password for marathon pdf is different than main puzzle pdf. Both passwords will be displayed after you start the test

So for the Numberlink puzzle it means that any correct solution will be accepted and points will be awarded?
Or is that puzzle out of the competition like the incorrect ones?

@ 2010-10-10 11:49 PM (#2127 - in reply to #2014) (#2127) Top

DreamRose311

Posts: 24

Country : United States

DreamRose311 posted @ 2010-10-10 11:49 PM

Since you uploaded a new test booklet with a corrected LITS, are you going to somehow adjust the scores of those who completed the test before the new PDF was uploaded?

@ 2010-10-10 11:56 PM (#2128 - in reply to #2014) (#2128) Top

Gareth

Posts: 17

Country : United Kingdom

Gareth posted @ 2010-10-10 11:56 PM

If you start the competition now, should you just skip the broken puzzles or are there still points available for these anyway?

@ 2010-10-11 12:04 AM (#2129 - in reply to #2128) (#2129) Top

amitsowani

Posts: 349

Country : India

amitsowani posted @ 2010-10-11 12:04 AM

We will consider points only for the updated puzzle booklet.
Points will be adjusted for all participants who participated in the test before the updated booklet was made available.

@ 2010-10-11 6:40 AM (#2130 - in reply to #2129) (#2130) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-11 6:40 AM

Results are published -
http://logicmastersindia.com/M201010P1/score.asp

We've followed a simple method
Nurikabe = 0 points for all
NumberLinks = 20 if player solved with old pdf and answer startsed with 1114, 0 if player solved with new pdf

This may not be the fairest way, but I guess there is no fair way to compute how much time a player spent on broken puzzle to compensate them for that.

We've disabled the ranks this time - you can sort by Points though.

Thank you everyone for participating.
And we (debmohanty, amitsowani, detuned) apologize again for the mistakes which could have been avoided.

@ 2010-10-11 8:21 AM (#2131 - in reply to #2014) (#2131) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-11 8:21 AM

There were 184 participants - 151 of whom got non-zero scores.

Here are some stats :
of countries - 35.
Top 3 (Based on #of non-zero entries)
Ind - 21
Japan - 18
USA - 16

Beginning of last week there were many new users registering from Japan that at one point I was thinking there will be more participants than Japan than India.
But Japan has highest Avg Score "754", and it won't be difficult to imagine how famous Nikoli is there.

@ 2010-10-11 1:26 PM (#2141 - in reply to #2014) (#2141) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-11 1:26 PM

Please provide feedback about the puzzles.
If anyone needs hints / steps to solve any puzzles, please don't hesitate to post here.

From the score page, it looks LITS is the least solved puzzle (okay, after the new pdf is uploaded)
No prizes for guessing the most solved puzzle - yes it is Sudoku!
P18 - Slitherlink was most incorrectly entered puzzle.

@ 2010-10-11 2:30 PM (#2142 - in reply to #2014) (#2142) Top

keshava.hs

Posts: 10

Country : India

keshava.hs posted @ 2010-10-11 2:30 PM

Hi Organizers,

first if all hats off for preparing such a wonderful puzzle set.

I have one doubt regaring the MASYU, It also has a multiple answers.

please tell me how can post it, so that you can correct me if i am wrong.

awaiting for the next test.

3 Cheers,
Keshav


	@ 2010-10-09 4:33 PM (#2098 - in reply to #2093) (#2098) Top
detuned Posts: 152 Country : United Kingdom	detuned posted @ 2010-10-09 4:33 PM I will take the blame here for this disaster - just not good enough I'm afraid. We are currently discussing what to do. I have proposed the following: -the nurikabe and numberlink are broken beyond repair and ought to be removed from the test (bringing the total score for the first section down to 920). Participants who have already finished the test should be compensated for the wasted time. -the LITS is fixable. What will happen here is either the same as for the numberlink and the nurikabe - or else a new PB will be uploaded, and all earlier participants will be awarded the full points. Once again, my sincerest apologies
	@ 2010-10-09 5:30 PM (#2099 - in reply to #2014) (#2099) Top
yureklis Posts: 183 Country : Turkey	yureklis posted @ 2010-10-09 5:30 PM I opened the first file but I have trouble with opening the marathon file. I downloaded it again but it does not accept the password (which was said to be common for both files). Is there something that I am missing?
	@ 2010-10-09 5:34 PM (#2100 - in reply to #2099) (#2100) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2010-10-09 5:34 PM yureklis - 2010-10-09 5:30 PM I opened the first file but I have trouble with opening the marathon file. I downloaded it again but it does not accept the password (which was said to be common for both files). Is there something that I am missing? Sent you password for marathon. check your forum inbox
	@ 2010-10-09 5:43 PM (#2101 - in reply to #2099) (#2101) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-09 5:43 PM yureklis - 2010-10-09 5:30 PM I opened the first file but I have trouble with opening the marathon file. I downloaded it again but it does not accept the password (which was said to be common for both files). Is there something that I am missing? Both the files have 2 different passwords now. Both passwords are displayed in the submission page after you start the test.
	@ 2010-10-09 6:03 PM (#2102 - in reply to #2101) (#2102) Top
amitsowani Posts: 349 Country : India	amitsowani posted @ 2010-10-09 6:03 PM Reposting to make sure that everyone has read this post: 1) The LITS image in the pdf is incorrect. We have uploaded an updated pdf. So all participants who are yet to participate please download the updated version. 2) The Nurikabe 10X10 puzzle is incorrect. 3) The Numberlinks puzzle has multiple solutions. 4) The Heyawake marathon puzzle is incorrect. Password for marathon pdf is different than main puzzle pdf. Both passwords will be displayed after you start the test
	@ 2010-10-09 9:38 PM (#2108 - in reply to #2014) (#2108) Top
Akuma21 Posts: 22 Country : ITALY	Akuma21 posted @ 2010-10-09 9:38 PM A good set of puzzle, i like it! I have done only a stupid error in hashi'answer key; i have entered the number of all double bridges. Good luck to everyone!
	@ 2010-10-09 11:15 PM (#2109 - in reply to #2014) (#2109) Top
Deyan Posts: 7 Country : Bulgaria	Deyan posted @ 2010-10-09 11:15 PM I had the bad luck to solve the wrong PDF. This is what I found: #1 Numberlink - multiple solutions When I realized it, I just found a solution that is using all cells and got points #5 Akari - 4 solutions For luck, all solutions have the same answer, so no problems with it #12 Nurikabe - wrong image I spent a lot of time on it. After time limit I solved the bigger Nurikabe for about 1/3 of the time I spent on this. Actually, it's very easily fixable: just change '4' to '3' at R5C10 #16 LITS I also spent some time until found it's wrong (one small line, but a big difference)
	@ 2010-10-09 11:53 PM (#2110 - in reply to #2109) (#2110) Top
detuned Posts: 152 Country : United Kingdom	detuned posted @ 2010-10-09 11:53 PM For anyone wondering what the big heyawake should have looked like: Puzzle: http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~marear/36x20_heyawake.png (and solution: http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~marear/36x20_heyawake_solution.png) Please accept this as something of an apology :)
	@ 2010-10-10 1:06 AM (#2111 - in reply to #2109) (#2111) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-10 1:06 AM Deyan - 2010-10-09 11:15 PM I had the bad luck to solve the wrong PDF. #5 Akari - 4 solutions For luck, all solutions have the same answer, so no problems with it Sorry again about the problems. #5 Akari has one solution. Please check your email.
	@ 2010-10-10 1:57 AM (#2112 - in reply to #2111) (#2112) Top
Deyan Posts: 7 Country : Bulgaria	Deyan posted @ 2010-10-10 1:57 AM debmohanty - 2010-10-09 9:06 PM Deyan - 2010-10-09 11:15 PM I had the bad luck to solve the wrong PDF. #5 Akari - 4 solutions For luck, all solutions have the same answer, so no problems with it Sorry again about the problems. #5 Akari has one solution. Please check your email. Oops You are right. I should change my notation for this puzzle.
	@ 2010-10-10 4:36 AM (#2113 - in reply to #2014) (#2113) Top
StGeorge Posts: 11 Country : Bulgaria	StGeorge posted @ 2010-10-10 4:36 AM The heyawake marathon was wrong? I didn't notice. It did take me quite a while to solve it - about 75 minutes - but I didn't see any mistakes. I'm sure I can easily be missing something and the correct version that Tom posted looks quite a bit different. Can someone tell me what the mistake is? Or is it that the one in the booklet is still a valid heyawake, just not the one that was intended? That would be a weird happenstance :)
	@ 2010-10-10 5:37 AM (#2114 - in reply to #2113) (#2114) Top
detuned Posts: 152 Country : United Kingdom	detuned posted @ 2010-10-10 5:37 AM I didn't notice either - until it was too late. There was a thing quite early on in the solve where you have a choice between either entirely surrounding an empty square with shaded squares, or else leaving 3 rooms empty in a row. The latter option was apparently quite subtle as I must have passed over it at least four or five times. Either that, or I'm an idiot. The new version is basically a fiddle to change as little of the solving experience (after wrongly assuming the 3 empty rooms in a row) as possible - I'd estimate about 80% of the puzzle solves the same. Edited by detuned 2010-10-10 5:39 AM
	@ 2010-10-10 10:24 AM (#2115 - in reply to #2014) (#2115) Top
motris Posts: 199 Country : United States	motris posted @ 2010-10-10 10:24 AM I obviously had the benefit of the "improved" test, but that won't keep me from my typical counting error (on the highest possible valued puzzle to boot). Got through all the solvable puzzles though. I think the marathon Kakuro was guilty of being too cute (not a good thing in a competition), but otherwise a lot of very fun puzzles to solve. Thanks for the puzzles Tom. Edited by motris 2010-10-10 10:25 AM
	@ 2010-10-10 2:40 PM (#2117 - in reply to #2014) (#2117) Top
StGeorge Posts: 11 Country : Bulgaria	StGeorge posted @ 2010-10-10 2:40 PM Yeah, I found the spot and fixed it up with the new image, it should be ok now :) By the way, the masyu marathon was pretty fun, I had a couple of warm, fuzzy "Oooh" moments solving it :P
	@ 2010-10-10 2:54 PM (#2118 - in reply to #2014) (#2118) Top
forcolin Posts: 172 Country : ITALY	forcolin posted @ 2010-10-10 2:54 PM I made it too although my PC froze as soon as I copy/pasted the pw. Had to reset and reboot and lost 5-6 minutes. Therefore I guess this time motris will beat me Nice set of puzzles, although I did not always find a straight relationship between the points awarded and the difficulty level. Thanks Tom, better luck for the future stefano ps: how do I rate the puzzles? Edited by forcolin 2010-10-10 2:55 PM
	@ 2010-10-10 5:29 PM (#2119 - in reply to #2014) (#2119) Top
rajeshk Posts: 542 Country : India	rajeshk posted @ 2010-10-10 5:29 PM Nice set of puzzles. Made one error while submitting the answer to lost 100 points. Do take care while submitting your answers.
	@ 2010-10-10 6:38 PM (#2124 - in reply to #2118) (#2124) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-10 6:38 PM forcolin - 2010-10-10 2:54 PM ps: how do I rate the puzzles? In the submission page, below each puzzle name there are 10 dots. The left-most dot is for 1-star and the right-most dot is for 10-stars. You can move your mouse over the dot to see.
	@ 2010-10-10 9:34 PM (#2126 - in reply to #2102) (#2126) Top
Gotroch Posts: 83 Country : Czech Republic	Gotroch posted @ 2010-10-10 9:34 PM amitsowani - 2010-10-09 6:03 PM Reposting to make sure that everyone has read this post: 1) The LITS image in the pdf is incorrect. We have uploaded an updated pdf. So all participants who are yet to participate please download the updated version. 2) The Nurikabe 10X10 puzzle is incorrect. 3) The Numberlinks puzzle has multiple solutions. 4) The Heyawake marathon puzzle is incorrect. Password for marathon pdf is different than main puzzle pdf. Both passwords will be displayed after you start the test So for the Numberlink puzzle it means that any correct solution will be accepted and points will be awarded? Or is that puzzle out of the competition like the incorrect ones?
	@ 2010-10-10 11:49 PM (#2127 - in reply to #2014) (#2127) Top
DreamRose311 Posts: 24 Country : United States	DreamRose311 posted @ 2010-10-10 11:49 PM Since you uploaded a new test booklet with a corrected LITS, are you going to somehow adjust the scores of those who completed the test before the new PDF was uploaded?
	@ 2010-10-10 11:56 PM (#2128 - in reply to #2014) (#2128) Top
Gareth Posts: 17 Country : United Kingdom	Gareth posted @ 2010-10-10 11:56 PM If you start the competition now, should you just skip the broken puzzles or are there still points available for these anyway?
	@ 2010-10-11 12:04 AM (#2129 - in reply to #2128) (#2129) Top
amitsowani Posts: 349 Country : India	amitsowani posted @ 2010-10-11 12:04 AM We will consider points only for the updated puzzle booklet. Points will be adjusted for all participants who participated in the test before the updated booklet was made available.
	@ 2010-10-11 6:40 AM (#2130 - in reply to #2129) (#2130) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-11 6:40 AM Results are published - http://logicmastersindia.com/M201010P1/score.asp We've followed a simple method Nurikabe = 0 points for all NumberLinks = 20 if player solved with old pdf and answer startsed with 1114, 0 if player solved with new pdf This may not be the fairest way, but I guess there is no fair way to compute how much time a player spent on broken puzzle to compensate them for that. We've disabled the ranks this time - you can sort by Points though. Thank you everyone for participating. And we (debmohanty, amitsowani, detuned) apologize again for the mistakes which could have been avoided.
	@ 2010-10-11 8:21 AM (#2131 - in reply to #2014) (#2131) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-11 8:21 AM There were 184 participants - 151 of whom got non-zero scores. Here are some stats : of countries - 35. Top 3 (Based on #of non-zero entries) Ind - 21 Japan - 18 USA - 16 Beginning of last week there were many new users registering from Japan that at one point I was thinking there will be more participants than Japan than India. But Japan has highest Avg Score "754", and it won't be difficult to imagine how famous Nikoli is there.
	@ 2010-10-11 1:26 PM (#2141 - in reply to #2014) (#2141) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2010-10-11 1:26 PM Please provide feedback about the puzzles. If anyone needs hints / steps to solve any puzzles, please don't hesitate to post here. From the score page, it looks LITS is the least solved puzzle (okay, after the new pdf is uploaded) No prizes for guessing the most solved puzzle - yes it is Sudoku! P18 - Slitherlink was most incorrectly entered puzzle.
	@ 2010-10-11 2:30 PM (#2142 - in reply to #2014) (#2142) Top
keshava.hs Posts: 10 Country : India	keshava.hs posted @ 2010-10-11 2:30 PM Hi Organizers, first if all hats off for preparing such a wonderful puzzle set. I have one doubt regaring the MASYU, It also has a multiple answers. please tell me how can post it, so that you can correct me if i am wrong. awaiting for the next test. 3 Cheers, Keshav