Nurimisaki Nomad (17th Sep - 7th Oct) has started Discuss
Magic Cube — LMI July Puzzle Test #2 — 30th and 31st July50 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1 2
@ 2011-07-28 9:55 AM (#5272 - in reply to #5196) (#5272) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2011-07-28 9:55 AM

Attention top players

Bonus points
==========

It is not mentioned in the IB, but everyone completing all 33 puzzles correctly before 120 minutes will get '9 points per minute saved' as bonus points.
As discussed couple of times in the past, we are introducing a "Claim Bonus" feature.
There will be a button next to "Submit".



This button will enabled only after all the puzzles are filled (either correctly or incorrectly).

After clicking this button,
1) first, all unsubmitted-puzzles will be submitted
2) submission will not be allowed any more
3) player can view the score page

Time bonus will be computed from the time this button is clicked.

In effect, this button works like "I'm done" in an offline event.
@ 2011-07-28 1:38 PM (#5273 - in reply to #5266) (#5273) Top

drsteve



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drsteve posted @ 2011-07-28 1:38 PM

Para - 2011-07-26 8:51 PM

PuzzleScot - 2011-07-26 10:34 PM

However, I would be surprised if anyone greyed the cells INSIDE the cave whilst solving, so I still think the answer key description is illogical.


Actually, this is exactly how i solve these puzzles. I grey the cells which are inside the cave and place crosses for cells outside the cave. I used to have a different notation, but since I use this notation I am able to solve these puzzles much easier. It's the same as my notation for puzzles like LITS and Tapa.


Ditto - that's exactly the way I do Caves as well. Seems to work pretty well.
@ 2011-07-28 4:40 PM (#5274 - in reply to #5196) (#5274) Top

kiwijam



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kiwijam posted @ 2011-07-28 4:40 PM

I'm interested in finding good fast notation. But I'm worried that greying in cells is time-consuming.
@Para & drsteve: how do you grey the cells? Do you scribble to colour all the cell? draw a zig-zag line side-to-side of 4-5 segments? or use a wider pen that makes it easier?
@ 2011-07-28 11:42 PM (#5276 - in reply to #5196) (#5276) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2011-07-28 11:42 PM

Password protected puzzle booklet (12 pages - no cover page) will be available 6 hours before the test. Flash submission will also be enabled 6 hours before the test.

Points claims should be made through the score page. As per suggestion during Fivefold, a textbox is added for each claim. You can also send messages to Valezius
@ 2011-07-29 1:27 AM (#5277 - in reply to #5274) (#5277) Top

Para



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Para posted @ 2011-07-29 1:27 AM

kiwijam - 2011-07-28 4:40 PM

I'm interested in finding good fast notation. But I'm worried that greying in cells is time-consuming.
@Para & drsteve: how do you grey the cells? Do you scribble to colour all the cell? draw a zig-zag line side-to-side of 4-5 segments? or use a wider pen that makes it easier?


I just try to grey the whole cell lightly, i'm not very neat with colouring, just try to fill most of the cell. Timewise this might be a bit slower, but it gives me a better overview of the puzzle. That way I see best what cells are inside the loop as those are the important cells while solving/counting. I feel it's faster for me because I get a better view of what cells can be seen by the numbers. I used to employ the notation Thomas showed in his post (http://motris.livejournal.com/145824.html#cutid1), but it always led to miscounts and missing diagonally connect squares. It really didn't work for me.
It's all a matter of personal taste. You should get a few puzzles and just try a few ways and see what feels most natural to you. I used to always get hopelessly stuck on these puzzles in the USPC (only place I ever saw them) but this way I can do them pretty well.
@ 2011-07-29 7:46 PM (#5279 - in reply to #5274) (#5279) Top

drsteve



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drsteve posted @ 2011-07-29 7:46 PM

kiwijam - 2011-07-28 11:40 AM

I'm interested in finding good fast notation. But I'm worried that greying in cells is time-consuming.
@Para & drsteve: how do you grey the cells? Do you scribble to colour all the cell? draw a zig-zag line side-to-side of 4-5 segments? or use a wider pen that makes it easier?


Just scribble really. It might waste a couple of milliseconds, but it's less exact that putting a X or an O. Besides, I'd probably forget which was which with X and O.
@ 2011-07-29 10:12 PM (#5280 - in reply to #5196) (#5280) Top

Valezius



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Valezius posted @ 2011-07-29 10:12 PM

I heard more times that the examples are too hard. This is true, hence i wrote about the test on UKPA forum. I copy it here:

"Don't forget, there are 33 puzzles and 120minutes. The average difficulty cannot be too high.
The first puzzle from every type is really easy, I promise ;-). And more easier than the sample. In many cases the medium puzzle is easier than the sample. Finally, you can see from the points in most cases the 3rd puzzle has same difficulty than the 2nd."

Don't panic :)
@ 2011-07-30 2:33 AM (#5281 - in reply to #5196) (#5281) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-07-30 2:33 AM

A new puzzle pdf file was uploaded at 20:30 GMT on 29th July (02:00 IST on 30th July). Please download the new pdf again.
@ 2011-07-30 6:03 PM (#5282 - in reply to #5196) (#5282) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-07-30 6:03 PM

We found a problem in Slalom 2. It has been fixed and a new puzzle pdf is uploaded at 17:45 (IST) / 12:15 (GMT) on 30-July. Please download the new pdf.

Note the new pdf password is different from old pdf.
@ 2011-07-30 6:46 PM (#5284 - in reply to #5196) (#5284) Top

deu



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deu posted @ 2011-07-30 6:46 PM

Thanks for a "WPC Preview" contest!
Slalom 2:
I erased all twice, and in the 3rd trial, I assumed that I had fixed my mistake.
Can I (and other participants) get 30 points for this puzzle?
@ 2011-07-30 7:11 PM (#5285 - in reply to #5284) (#5285) Top

Valezius



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Valezius posted @ 2011-07-30 7:11 PM

deu - 2011-07-30 6:46 PM

Thanks for a "WPC Preview" contest!
Slalom 2:
I erased all twice, and in the 3rd trial, I assumed that I had fixed my mistake.
Can I (and other participants) get 30 points for this puzzle?


Yes, of course, you can (and others). But just later. Dont worry :-)

I hope you will have better memories about the test and not just the Slalom2 ;-)
@ 2011-07-31 5:05 AM (#5286 - in reply to #5196) (#5286) Top

MellowMelon



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MellowMelon posted @ 2011-07-31 5:05 AM

A great test; really hoping I qualify for Hungary now. I can't believe I screwed THAT type up though...

With regard to the oops on the slalom, is there any decision on what will be done with the ratings? Will this one just be excluded?

Edited by MellowMelon 2011-07-31 5:05 AM
@ 2011-07-31 4:20 PM (#5287 - in reply to #5286) (#5287) Top

Valezius



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Valezius posted @ 2011-07-31 4:20 PM

MellowMelon - 2011-07-31 5:05 AM

A great test; really hoping I qualify for Hungary now. I can't believe I screwed THAT type up though...

With regard to the oops on the slalom, is there any decision on what will be done with the ratings? Will this one just be excluded?



Thank you. I checked your solution during the test. I dont think it can be good :)

We have discussed the situation with Deb. We wont cancel the Slalom-2.
There were 15 solutions when we detected the mistake. 2 submission are same with the offical solution and 11 submissions contain just 1 "wrong" digit.
In my opinion who could type a solution with 5 correct digit, spent enough time and could solve the puzzle.
Hence all 15 solver will get the points. (I wrote this previously)

I know there are some people who trid to solve the puzzle but couldnt and he typed nothing.
But just 20 people solved the Slalom-1 and I think maximum 2 people started slalom-2 instead of slalom-1.

I would like to apologize to everybody who spend time because of this puzzle.
@ 2011-07-31 5:49 PM (#5288 - in reply to #5287) (#5288) Top

Errabee



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Errabee posted @ 2011-07-31 5:49 PM

Valezius - 2011-07-31 12:20 PM
I know there are some people who trid to solve the puzzle but couldnt and he typed nothing.
But just 20 people solved the Slalom-1 and I think maximum 2 people started slalom-2 instead of slalom-1.

I would like to apologize to everybody who spend time because of this puzzle.


I started slalom-2 (after slalom-1) and noticed about 2/3 through that an area had become fully enclosed. I assumed it was my mistake and moved on. Easier to start with a new puzzle than to erase everything and try again.

But no apologies needed; everyone knows this happens even to the best of puzzle authors from time to time.

Great set of puzzles overall!
@ 2011-07-31 6:43 PM (#5289 - in reply to #5196) (#5289) Top

PuzzleScot



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PuzzleScot posted @ 2011-07-31 6:43 PM

Great puzzles! If the WPC is of this quality, it will be a real treat for those competing :)
@ 2011-07-31 9:42 PM (#5290 - in reply to #5287) (#5290) Top

MellowMelon



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MellowMelon posted @ 2011-07-31 9:42 PM

Yes, my wrong solution had two goofs on the page. I would be suspicious of getting credit for it. Very, very unfortunate for me though. I've got a habit to kick in the next three months...

My original query about the ratings comes from the fact that there's someone in this thread who evidently threw a lot of time at it; I am not used to beating them and am currently edging them out by a bit. Still, I guess even at the last WPC they didn't throw out a round where I fortuitously waited until the end to work on the puzzle with no solution and tied for the top score as a result.
@ 2011-08-01 12:32 AM (#5291 - in reply to #5196) (#5291) Top

neerajmehrotra



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neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-08-01 12:32 AM

Excellent set of puzzles..........not very happy with my performance as I did two more puzzles in just 7 mins after finishing the test........Thanks to the authors for exposing ordinary players like me to World Championship level puzzles.....waiting for 1 claim on typo I have made......
@ 2011-08-01 2:07 AM (#5292 - in reply to #5291) (#5292) Top

motris



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motris posted @ 2011-08-01 2:07 AM

Thanks for these really fun puzzles. The cube theme reminded me of the last WPC in Eger a lot; I hope I can come out to compete this year to see more great Hungarian designs.

----------------------
The Art of Puzzles

Edited by motris 2011-08-01 2:10 AM
@ 2011-08-01 3:06 AM (#5293 - in reply to #5196) (#5293) Top

puzzlemad



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puzzlemad posted @ 2011-08-01 3:06 AM

I'd just like to add my thanks to that of everyone else who has competed so far. I thoroughly enjoyed these puzzles and for once did not make any errors on submission or waste too much time on any to find out I'd gone wrong.
@ 2011-08-01 8:48 AM (#5295 - in reply to #5196) (#5295) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2011-08-01 8:48 AM

Magic Cube is over.

Congratulations to motris (Thomas Snyder) who completed all puzzles with 14 minutes in advance.
xevs (Ko Okamoto) and MellowMelon (Palmer Mebane) submitted all 33 puzzles as well, but had one puzzle wrong. MellowMelon had a chance to top again but he had THAT puzzle wrong.
They complete the podium.

It is also important to mention about deu (Hideaki Jo) who definitely had a chance to complete all puzzles. But he lost some time because he was, unfortunately, solving with the pdf with wrong Slalom 2.

We are still looking into some of the wrong submissions - the results will be public after a chat with Zoltan.
@ 2011-08-01 9:02 AM (#5296 - in reply to #5290) (#5296) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-08-01 9:02 AM

MellowMelon - 2011-07-31 9:42 PM

My original query about the ratings comes from the fact that there's someone in this thread who evidently threw a lot of time at it; I am not used to beating them and am currently edging them out by a bit. Still, I guess even at the last WPC they didn't throw out a round where I fortuitously waited until the end to work on the puzzle with no solution and tied for the top score as a result.


Sorry, didn't respond regarding Slalom - 2 vs ratings while the test was running. I didn't want much focus on 1 wrong puzzle.

I assume your question is about LMI ratings, and we'll include the results in the ratings. When there is wrong puzzle in a test running for 48-hours, there are not many options which is fair to all.
One option we discussed is to "Not announcing about the puzzle / neither to change the pdf". This way all players would have hit the road block in Slalom - 2. But we quickly discarded this option because we wanted to make sure that the 75% players who were going to participate shouldn't face the same frustration that the initial players faced.

In any case, as Zoltan mentioned, all players who have submitted Slalom - 2 before it was fixed get 30 points. This is close to being fair, but I realize there are some more players who solved Slalom - 1, spent some time on Slalom - 2 but didn't submit because they couldn't solve and assumed that they were making a mistake.
@ 2011-08-01 10:39 AM (#5297 - in reply to #5295) (#5297) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-08-01 10:39 AM

Administrator - 2011-08-01 8:48 AM

xevs (Ko Okamoto) and MellowMelon (Palmer Mebane) submitted all 33 puzzles as well, but had one puzzle wrong. MellowMelon had a chance to top again but he had THAT puzzle wrong.

I posted this in a hurry.
I rechecked the database, and found that MellowMelon took more than couple of minutes to crosscheck all his answers before clicking on "Claim Bonus". So even if he had got all 33 correct, he would have been placed 2nd.

One more point to note is that MellowMelon didn't get any benefit for completing before 15 minutes. We probably should have had partial bonus in this test, given that there were way too many puzzles.
@ 2011-08-01 12:06 PM (#5299 - in reply to #5297) (#5299) Top

motris



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motris posted @ 2011-08-01 12:06 PM

debmohanty - 2011-07-31 9:39 PMOne more point to note is that MellowMelon didn't get any benefit for completing before 15 minutes. We probably should have had partial bonus in this test, given that there were way too many puzzles.
I think on a test with 33 puzzles, there should certainly be diminished time bonus if a person submits early with a single mistake. But that bonus would only start after the solver hits claim bonus obviously. I found that end test button a good addition but it will really only get tested on a contest where many more people finish early.

It would probably also be good to add the "claim bonus" time into the rollover info on the score sheet because time to last correct submission can be misleading.

Edited by motris 2011-08-01 12:10 PM
@ 2011-08-01 12:15 PM (#5300 - in reply to #5299) (#5300) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-08-01 12:15 PM

motris - 2011-08-01 12:06 PM

It would probably also be good to add the "claim bonus" time into the rollover info on the score sheet because time to last correct submission can be misleading.

Yes, we'll get it added in the next test.

Regarding number of players completing the test, I think the test was well timed (although there were lot of apprehensions because of example puzzles' difficulties). 3 players completed it and 2 more were close to complete it.
@ 2011-08-01 2:20 PM (#5302 - in reply to #5196) (#5302) Top

PuzzleScot



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PuzzleScot posted @ 2011-08-01 2:20 PM

I think you have to consider deu like one of the original participants. His English is not much better than my Japanese, and would not have seen any errata. That was clearly the case in one of the UKPA recent contests, so I urge you to reconsider his result.
Magic Cube — LMI July Puzzle Test #2 — 30th and 31st July50 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1 2
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