Thread - MAYnipulation — LMI May Puzzle Test

@ 2011-05-10 3:52 PM (#4356 - in reply to #4332) (#4356) Top

Posts: 31

Country : United Kingdom

PuzzleScot posted @ 2011-05-10 3:52 PM

Do you have the exact UTC time window for this contest?
If it has not been set, could it the end time be at least 1am GMT/UTC (2am BST) please, to enable as many UK competitors as possible to compete? Thank-you.

@ 2011-05-10 4:01 PM (#4357 - in reply to #4356) (#4357) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-05-10 4:01 PM

PuzzleScot - 2011-05-10 3:52 PM

Do you have the exact UTC time window for this contest?
If it has not been set, could it the end time be at least 1am GMT/UTC (2am BST) please, to enable as many UK competitors as possible to compete? Thank-you.

This will start at 00:00:01 AM Saturday GMT (same as all LMI tests). But we are making a change to the end time based on several complaints / suggestions.
The test will be open for 48 hours, that means players can start upto 48 hours. Once a player starts, he will always have 101 minutes to submit (so in effect it will end at 01:41:01 AM GMT)

Hope it is fine. If you want a longer window, we can start earlier or end later or both. Let us know.

@ 2011-05-10 6:28 PM (#4358 - in reply to #4332) (#4358) Top

David McNeill

Posts: 63

Country : United Kingdom

David McNeill posted @ 2011-05-10 6:28 PM

Further to Gareth's query, I believe that the Ambigram Skyscrapers puzzle has 3 solutions. The third solution is 0123,3210,1032,2301. The Persistence of Memory solution puzzled me and I think the rules need to be clarified. I assumed that the orientation of the shape did not matter and that, therefore, all 4 shapes were identical. Under this interpretation, the given solution does not satisfy the rule that each shape should have snake parts with the same appearance. There is at least one valid solution using my "false" interpretation.

Please clarify these points.

@ 2011-05-10 6:45 PM (#4359 - in reply to #4332) (#4359) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-05-10 6:45 PM

About Ambigram Skyscrapers

The rule says "The solution, if written in the above notation, must look the same when the page is turned upside down."

This is Gareth's alternate solution (with page turned upside down)

David's alternate solution (with page turned upside down)

Both of them don't satisfy the rule.

The given solution is

and it looks same when rotated.

@ 2011-05-10 6:48 PM (#4360 - in reply to #4358) (#4360) Top

rakesh_rai

Posts: 774

Country : India

rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-05-10 6:48 PM

David McNeill - 2011-05-10 6:28 PM

The Persistence of Memory solution puzzled me and I think the rules need to be clarified. I assumed that the orientation of the shape did not matter and that, therefore, all 4 shapes were identical. Under this interpretation, the given solution does not satisfy the rule that each shape should have snake parts with the same appearance. There is at least one valid solution using my "false" interpretation.

Here, 2x1 block is different from 1x2 block.

@ 2011-05-10 7:04 PM (#4361 - in reply to #4360) (#4361) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-05-10 7:04 PM

Apart from 2X1 blocks being different from 1X2 blocks, the path of the snake also must be exactly same (rotation not allowed)

If some 1X1 blocks were given :

For example, this is a valid.		This is NOT valid

@ 2011-05-10 7:22 PM (#4362 - in reply to #4332) (#4362) Top

A Carton Mutant

Posts: 33

Country : Turkey

A Carton Mutant posted @ 2011-05-10 7:22 PM

The reason I created the example with 1x2 blocks and 2x1 blocks was the hope that them being different would be noticed. Guess not. If two blocks have exactly the same shape (no rotation, no nothing), they have the same appearance regarding snake parts.

Ambigram: I do not expect anyone to actually solve the puzzle using that fancy font. :) However, the rule "The solution, if written in the above notation, must look the same when the page is turned upside down." helps.

@ 2011-05-10 8:47 PM (#4363 - in reply to #4332) (#4363) Top

swaroop2011

Posts: 668

Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-05-10 8:47 PM

hey in the Deformable Kropki i think there are 2 solutions.
the 3's and 5's are interchangeable at R4C1 R4C2 AND R5C1 R5C2.

@ 2011-05-10 9:07 PM (#4364 - in reply to #4363) (#4364) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-05-10 9:07 PM

swaroop2011 - 2011-05-10 8:47 PM

hey in the Deformable Kropki i think there are 2 solutions.
the 3's and 5's are interchangeable at R4C1 R4C2 AND R5C1 R5C2.

R3C1 is 2 and R4C1 will be 3. That is not valid since there is no dot between R3C1 and R4C1.

@ 2011-05-10 9:13 PM (#4365 - in reply to #4364) (#4365) Top

swaroop2011

Posts: 668

Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-05-10 9:13 PM

ok
it means that reverse rule also applies in Deformable Kropki.

Edited by swaroop2011 2011-05-10 9:24 PM

@ 2011-05-10 9:14 PM (#4366 - in reply to #4365) (#4366) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-05-10 9:14 PM

swaroop2011 - 2011-05-10 9:13 PM

ok

it means that reverse rule also applies.

That is so obvious from the rules.

@ 2011-05-10 9:25 PM (#4367 - in reply to #4332) (#4367) Top

swaroop2011

Posts: 668

Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-05-10 9:25 PM

In Coral rotator ,
does whil rotating the page upside down makes 2 and interchangeable.

And in Symmetric Loop
in the first regiion that is in column 1 and 2.
the loop is U shape but at R3 it is Z shape BUt the rule says it is symmetric how?

@ 2011-05-10 9:46 PM (#4368 - in reply to #4332) (#4368) Top

David McNeill

Posts: 63

Country : United Kingdom

David McNeill posted @ 2011-05-10 9:46 PM

Thanks for clarification. I hope my mistakes will not be made by any competitors in the real thing.

@ 2011-05-10 10:11 PM (#4369 - in reply to #4367) (#4369) Top

rakesh_rai

Posts: 774

Country : India

rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-05-10 10:11 PM

swaroop2011 - 2011-05-10 9:25 PM

In Coral rotator , does whil rotating the page upside down makes 2 and interchangeable.

Yes 2 becomes 3 on page turned upside down, and vice-versa

And in Symmetric Loop
in the first regiion that is in column 1 and 2.
the loop is U shape but at R3 it is Z shape BUt the rule says it is symmetric how?

Just look at the portion of the loop inside the marked areas. It should be symmetric, i.e., if you rotate the marked area by 180 degrees, you still get the same loop portion inside the area.

@ 2011-05-11 5:46 AM (#4371 - in reply to #4369) (#4371) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-05-11 5:46 AM

rakesh_rai - 2011-05-10 10:11 PM

swaroop2011 - 2011-05-10 9:25 PM

In Coral rotator , does whil rotating the page upside down makes 2 and interchangeable.

Yes 2 becomes 3 on page turned upside down, and vice-versa

Also, 4 becomes 7 and vice versa. Same with 6 and 9.
Remaining digits 0 1 5 8 don't change when turned upside down.

@ 2011-05-11 9:52 PM (#4374 - in reply to #4332) (#4374) Top

vopani

Posts: 739

Country : India

vopani posted @ 2011-05-11 9:52 PM

In Superimposed Loop, can both the grids contain a black cell in the same position?

@ 2011-05-12 1:07 AM (#4376 - in reply to #4374) (#4376) Top

A Carton Mutant

Posts: 33

Country : Turkey

A Carton Mutant posted @ 2011-05-12 1:07 AM

Indeed. Just their superimposed form is given, the two grids are actually independent. They do not put any constraints on each other.

@ 2011-05-13 12:39 AM (#4386 - in reply to #4332) (#4386) Top

A Carton Mutant

Posts: 33

Country : Turkey

A Carton Mutant posted @ 2011-05-13 12:39 AM

Small clarification: Sorry for making the diagram borders bold on the Symmetric Loop example, it led to some confusion with the actual regions. Contest puzzles do not have them bolded.

@ 2011-05-13 9:44 PM (#4398 - in reply to #4332) (#4398) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-05-13 9:44 PM

Puzzle Booklet uploaded. It has 11 pages, each page has puzzles (no cover page)

@ 2011-05-13 9:44 PM (#4399 - in reply to #4332) (#4399) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-05-13 9:44 PM

Starting this test, we are making one change
If somebody doesn't want to include this test's results in LMI Ratings, they must unselect the checkbox.

After clicking on "Start", the checkbox will be invisible.

@ 2011-05-13 10:05 PM (#4400 - in reply to #4399) (#4400) Top

purifire

Posts: 460

Country : India

purifire posted @ 2011-05-13 10:05 PM

Administrator - 2011-05-13 9:44 PM

Starting this test, we are making one change
If somebody doesn't want to include this test's results in LMI Ratings, they must unselect the checkbox.

After clicking on "Start", the checkbox will be invisible.

To add to what the Admin said, if a player does not uncheck the box then irrespective of whether they submit the answers or not, their scores will be taken into consideration for the ranking and that can affect their standings too.

Rishi

@ 2011-05-14 12:20 PM (#4403 - in reply to #4400) (#4403) Top

motris

Posts: 199

Country : United States

motris posted @ 2011-05-14 12:20 PM

Thanks for a very fun test that went by too fast (I guess 101 is a rotationally symmetric number of minutes, but I think we'll all comment that we would have loved more time to be MAY-nipulated). Still, I worked a little past the test to finish everything up and enjoyed it all.

@ 2011-05-14 1:17 PM (#4404 - in reply to #4403) (#4404) Top

A Carton Mutant

Posts: 33

Country : Turkey

A Carton Mutant posted @ 2011-05-14 1:17 PM

I'm really glad if it was enjoyable. About the time limit, it was adjusted from the times of the test-solvers (many thanks to them). Competitively solving must be more stressful though. I also have to say that some of the harder ones are difficult to start, then goes smoother. This may cause loss of time as well.
Anyway, thanks for the nice feedback!
Regards,
Murat

@ 2011-05-14 6:25 PM (#4405 - in reply to #4404) (#4405) Top

rakesh_rai

Posts: 774

Country : India

rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-05-14 6:25 PM

Very nice puzzles. Among the ones I could solve, I liked deformable kropki (bottom) very much - Kropki can indeed be fun with hidden black dots, although it took me quite a while to get the right idea.

Edited by rakesh_rai 2011-05-14 6:26 PM

@ 2011-05-15 12:17 AM (#4406 - in reply to #4332) (#4406) Top

standupcanada

Posts: 11

Country : Canada

standupcanada posted @ 2011-05-15 12:17 AM

I don't know that 1001 minutes would have saved me today. Fortunately I have a rather large set of enjoyable looking puzzles to dive into tomorrow. Thanks Murat.