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TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021
   LMI Tests -> Annual Competitions31 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1 2
yureklis
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-08 8:15 PM (#29091 - in reply to #29088) (#29091) Top


CTC & TVC Author & Organizer

Posts: 183
10020202020
Location: Turkiye
kiwijam - 2021-04-08 1:17 PM

Perhaps Tapa (Balance) could have a different name, because there was already a Tapa Balance in TVC XI with different rules?


Yes I know, I'll change that one as something like Tapa (Scale) or something. I've started to remake the general variation file, and it seems it'll take time, but at the end we'll have a better version of it.


Edited by yureklis 2021-04-08 8:20 PM
yureklis
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-08 8:19 PM (#29092 - in reply to #29089) (#29092) Top


CTC & TVC Author & Organizer

Posts: 183
10020202020
Location: Turkiye
EctoPlasma - 2021-04-08 8:09 PM

Just to clarify; Tapa Hamle that has appeared in TVC 2 and 13 seems to be different from this "Tapa (Hamle)" in that two clued cells in the resulting grid can share an edge. This looks a little confusing, am I reading the rules correctly?


Yes, in this version, new clues created by moving can touch each other from the edge.
Administrator
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-09 12:54 PM (#29095 - in reply to #29064) (#29095) Top


2000100010020
Location: India

(Updated) Instructions Booklet


An updated IB has been uploaded at the contest page: https://logicmastersindia.com/live/?contest=TVCXXI
The points for each puzzle have now been included.

Administrator
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-09 8:10 PM (#29100 - in reply to #29095) (#29100) Top


2000100010020
Location: India

Important points


1. There shall be no instant grading in this test.
2. There shall be no online solving interface (like penpa) provided for this test.
3. The score page shall be made available later.
4. If the length of shaded cells in any answer key is more than 9, you need to enter the complete value, not just the unit digit.
5. There shall be 11 pages in the Puzzle Booklet, including a points table on Page 1.
6. Participants can submit answers any number of times. The last submission shall be considered for scoring.
7. There shall be no separate notification on submitting answers. There will be no claim bonus button either. So, if you think you have submitted all answers correctly, the bonus will be calculated based on the last submission time.
8. The timer will show the full 80 minutes. But there shall be penalties if answers are submitted after 75 minutes.

A Carton Mutant
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-09 8:33 PM (#29101 - in reply to #29072) (#29101) Top




Posts: 24
20
Location: Turkey
A Carton Mutant - 2021-04-05 8:25 PM

Hello Tim, good question! Each number in a multi-number starting cell moves independently from one another but in the example all the 1s moved up, making it look like the whole cell just shifted up. I can confirm there are starting cells similar to 1-2 and each number in those will move separately in the four directions (each with its own value in length). We might need to create a new example reflecting that.


Sharing a small example I made, just in case:



Attachments
----------------
Attachments HamleExample.jpeg (29KB - 10 downloads)
mstang
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-09 8:47 PM (#29102 - in reply to #29064) (#29102) Top





Posts: 69
202020
Location: USA
I don't understand why there are 5 extra minutes in which "there shall be penalties." What is the point of that? Is it still worth it to submit (correct) answers during that time?
Administrator
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-09 8:50 PM (#29103 - in reply to #29102) (#29103) Top


2000100010020
Location: India

Puzzle booklet



The password protected puzzle booklet is available for download and has 11 pages.

rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-09 8:52 PM (#29104 - in reply to #29102) (#29104) Top



Mean Minis (2020) Author

Posts: 771
500100100202020
Location: India
mstang - 2021-04-09 8:47 PM

I don't understand why there are 5 extra minutes in which "there shall be penalties." What is the point of that? Is it still worth it to submit (correct) answers during that time?

Yes. If you complete the 122 point puzzle in the 77th minute, you will submit it. However if you solve a 22 point puzzle in the 80th minute, it may not be worth it.

The objective is to provide an opportunity to submit puzzles which are close to completion, even after the "normal" 75 minutes.
ghirsch
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-09 8:59 PM (#29105 - in reply to #29064) (#29105) Top




Posts: 98
20202020
Location: USA
How large is the penalty? It's unclear to me how I would decide whether or not to submit. I suppose it's late to ask this now, but alternatively could there be an additional rule that "If you submit again in the extra minutes and your score goes down, your previous submission will be used."?
Administrator
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-09 9:03 PM (#29106 - in reply to #29064) (#29106) Top


2000100010020
Location: India
Penalty is minimal: 5 points per minute
samp
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-09 10:15 PM (#29107 - in reply to #29064) (#29107) Top




Posts: 1

Hi,

Is there any website where we can practice these kind of Tapa variations? Or maybe tutorial videos that share common tips and tricks for the variations?

It would be very helpful for a beginner like me.

Thanks,
Nikhil
3strikerz
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-10 9:56 AM (#29108 - in reply to #29064) (#29108) Top




Posts: 8

Location: South Korea
Even after completing the test, I'm not exactly sure what the definition of a 'line' is in the Tapa(Palindrome) set.
How was I supposed to interpret the weird X in the middle and the line with branches on the top left and bottom right?
rob
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-10 2:20 PM (#29109 - in reply to #29108) (#29109) Top


Classics & Regions (PR 2016/17) Author

Posts: 168
100202020
Location: Germany
3strikerz - 2021-04-10 9:56 AM

Even after completing the test, I'm not exactly sure what the definition of a 'line' is in the Tapa(Palindrome) set.
How was I supposed to interpret the weird X in the middle and the line with branches on the top left and bottom right?


Judging by how the puzzle solves, it appears the correct interpretation is to treat it as "Tapa(Galaxies)", i.e., take the whole connected gray shape, point symmetric around its center, and require shaded/unshaded to satisfy that symmetry, too. (Alternatively, you could regard the shapes as being composed of several lines that share a center.)

Definitely agree that this needs specification, though. It would be entirely valid to e.g. ask every end-to-end line to be a palindrome (which is a stronger condition).
Administrator
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 14th April 2021 @ 2021-04-10 5:24 PM (#29111 - in reply to #29064) (#29111) Top


2000100010020
Location: India

Score page


The score page is now available.

Administrator
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021 @ 2021-04-14 9:31 PM (#29117 - in reply to #29111) (#29117) Top


2000100010020
Location: India

Contest Extension


TVC XXI is extended by 24 hours and shall be open till Thursday 11:59 PM IST (15th April) - since there was some delay in the start of the contest.
(Participants must start the test before 11:59 PM on 15th April.)

rob
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021 @ 2021-04-15 4:17 PM (#29121 - in reply to #29064) (#29121) Top


Classics & Regions (PR 2016/17) Author

Posts: 168
100202020
Location: Germany
Thanks for the contest! So good to have TVC back. Some great puzzles in there (once I could solve them at a relaxed pace), I particularly enjoyed the Balance Tapa.

As for the contest as such, I struggled a lot, would never have expected to come out reasonably high up in the standings (I even lost the last 15 minutes to failing to finish the high-pointer Hamle). I didn't have a single solve that wasn't mostly driven by intuition/guessing/uniqueness.

I think it's fine to have contests with puzzles that are this difficult (and there's folks who can enjoy that more than I can), but I believe that you'll get more solvers appreciating solving paths, and fewer frustrated solvers in general, if you tone down the difficulty slightly (or even a lot...). I imagine this contest would have been quite disheartening for inexperienced solvers.
greenhorn
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021 @ 2021-04-15 11:30 PM (#29123 - in reply to #29121) (#29123) Top


Wacky Slovak Classics Author

Posts: 150
1002020
Location: Slovakia
I agree with Rob. I am a fan of the TVC and always found it very interesting and innovative, but this round was way beyond the limit, so I give it up with mixed feelings. After the contest, I realized that at least the last three puzzles have a great logical path, and I appreciated this moderate difficulty with no need to guess and bifurcate. Anyway, thanks for the contest!

rob - 2021-04-15 4:17 PM

Thanks for the contest! So good to have TVC back. Some great puzzles in there (once I could solve them at a relaxed pace), I particularly enjoyed the Balance Tapa.

As for the contest as such, I struggled a lot, would never have expected to come out reasonably high up in the standings (I even lost the last 15 minutes to failing to finish the high-pointer Hamle). I didn't have a single solve that wasn't mostly driven by intuition/guessing/uniqueness.

I think it's fine to have contests with puzzles that are this difficult (and there's folks who can enjoy that more than I can), but I believe that you'll get more solvers appreciating solving paths, and fewer frustrated solvers in general, if you tone down the difficulty slightly (or even a lot...). I imagine this contest would have been quite disheartening for inexperienced solvers.
mstang
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021 @ 2021-04-16 12:31 AM (#29124 - in reply to #29064) (#29124) Top





Posts: 69
202020
Location: USA
I also agree -- this round was brutally tough. I still found it enjoyable, but I was sad to not be able to even look at most of the puzzles.
swaroop2011
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021 @ 2021-04-16 2:11 AM (#29127 - in reply to #29064) (#29127) Top


PR 2020 (Shading and Loops) Author

Posts: 611
500100
Location: india
Some puzzles were definitely amazing, I enjoyed solving Palindrome, Black hole during the contest. Some low pointers were also very tough/trick, felt bashy.
Definitely difficulty was way higher than what I had in mind and yet to solve remaining puzzles. Puzzle quality is definitely good, but would appreciate if there are some approachable puzzles in the mix.
Thanks to Authors, Testers and LMI for the effort, it was fun contest.
IHNN
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021 @ 2021-04-16 10:00 AM (#29128 - in reply to #29064) (#29128) Top


Typed Logic Author

Posts: 6

Location: USA
I did not enjoy this contest. First problem: some difficult puzzles are fine. An entire set of nothing but extremely difficult puzzles is not in this context, as less experienced solvers end up with nothing they can really do, and more experienced solvers have to resort to guessing, bashing, and generally hoping to pick the puzzles that are more approachable. Which leads to my second problem: the point values were all over the place. The first two puzzles were very similar in point value, though I found the second one to be significantly harder and in fact couldn't break in during the contest. Even outside the clock, it took me a couple minutes to figure out what was necessary. The first Hamle I solved logically and smoothly in about the same amount of time as the first Tapa Line, despite being worth 2.5 times as much. The rest of the test is the same way- outside of grid size, there didn't seem to be any correlation between difficulty/time to solve and points, which made puzzle selection even more of a crapshoot.

I also ended up breaking a couple puzzles late that I couldn't fix (122 point Hamle, Palindromes- the puzzle having multiple plausible readings of the palindrome lines definitely didn't help) which would have helped my score, but not my opinion of the test. Puzzles I liked: Balance Tapa was fun, and the Hamles were interesting though the variant is very difficult to notate. The first Regional was very nice too but like almost everything else crazy undervalued.
Puzzles I didn't like: Both Pata (way too bashy, haven't solved the second yet despite a lot of time- the variant is a good one), both Easy as Tapa (way way way too bashy, haven't made any progress in either, IMO the variant is a lost cause), Palindrome (crossing and overlapping lines were unclear and unexplained in the instructions, this was avoidable with a better example).

This was the first round of TVC I was around for. If future rounds will be like this one, it'll be the last I participate in. My experience was that negative- a first for contest rounds for me. Even my first puzzle grand prix round that I bombed was enjoyable during- this wasn't.
ashaash11ash
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021 @ 2021-04-16 10:36 AM (#29130 - in reply to #29064) (#29130) Top


PR 2020 (MII and Regions) Author

Posts: 50
2020
Location: india
https://youtu.be/VhLbr2HONGs

We have covered a video on Pata puzzle high pointer. Logical solve path. Do check the video.
Administrator
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021 @ 2021-04-16 12:39 PM (#29131 - in reply to #29130) (#29131) Top


2000100010020
Location: India
The Solutions Booklet is now available.
Administrator
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021 @ 2021-04-16 12:42 PM (#29132 - in reply to #29064) (#29132) Top


2000100010020
Location: India
Thanks to the 207 participants!

Congratulations to the winners (500+ scores): Prasanna Seshadri, Walker Anderson, Endo Ken, James McGowan and Hideaki Jo.

tamz29
Subject: Re: TVC XXI — 9th - 15th April 2021 @ 2021-04-16 7:35 PM (#29136 - in reply to #29064) (#29136) Top




Posts: 191
10020202020
Location: Thailand
Agree that the test overall was too difficult.
A different opinion from the others is that I don't think it is a bad thing to have a test that is unfinishable.
It is fair for strategizing to be part of the contest. I feel it is a good change from the Sudoku sprints we've been having.

I think the downfall of this TVC was the lack of easy and straightforward puzzles in the test.
Nice puzzles for sure, (I enjoyed them after) but maybe not suitable for a 75 minute test.
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