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Deception — May Puzzle Test — 18th-20th May 201354 posts • Page 1 of 3 • 1 2 3
@ 2013-05-18 9:54 AM (#11015 - in reply to #11013) (#11015) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2013-05-18 9:54 AM

FoxFireX - 2013-05-18 9:40 AM

The instructions on the answer page are wrong for Domino Nurikabe; reads "Lengths of line segment for marked row", should be "Lengths of consecutive black cells for marked rows".
Updated.
@ 2013-05-18 6:42 PM (#11017 - in reply to #10966) (#11017) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2013-05-18 6:42 PM

@ 2013-05-18 11:25 PM (#11021 - in reply to #10966) (#11021) Top

Gotroch



Posts: 83
20202020
Country : Czech Republic

Gotroch posted @ 2013-05-18 11:25 PM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2013-05-19 3:14 AM (#11022 - in reply to #10966) (#11022) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2013-05-19 3:14 AM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? All puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2013-05-19 3:25 AM (#11023 - in reply to #10966) (#11023) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2013-05-19 3:25 AM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Way too many puzzles (too little time)
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? Many puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Too few pages / too small grids


@ 2013-05-19 7:25 AM (#11024 - in reply to #10966) (#11024) Top

deu



Posts: 69
202020
Country : Japan

deu posted @ 2013-05-19 7:25 AM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


I was really impressed by the puzzle quality. Liar Slitherlink 2, Battleships Yajilin 1, Domino Nurikabe 2 are my favorites.

I should have read the instruction carefully. I misunderstood the rules for outside clues in Heyawake and wasted more than 10 minutes.
@ 2013-05-19 4:44 PM (#11025 - in reply to #10966) (#11025) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2013-05-19 4:44 PM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? A bit hard
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Most of the puzzle type are popular ones. As I was new to most of them, it would be unfair if I said the puzzle set as skewed or very hard. Very good set of puzzle, would be better if the time limit was a little more (say, a 15 minutes more).
@ 2013-05-19 5:57 PM (#11026 - in reply to #10966) (#11026) Top

chaotic_iak




Posts: 241
1001002020
Country : Indonesia

chaotic_iak posted @ 2013-05-19 5:57 PM

Post #11023: It would be nice if you also specify the reasons for your opinion. Otherwise, I don't exactly know what to improve.




deu - 2013-05-19 8:25 AM

I was really impressed by the puzzle quality. Liar Slitherlink 2, Battleships Yajilin 1, Domino Nurikabe 2 are my favorites.

I should have read the instruction carefully. I misunderstood the rules for outside clues in Heyawake and wasted more than 10 minutes.


Thanks! About Surveyors Heyawake, I did warn in this thread before that it's a difficult genre. But you should have asked here for clarifications. Oh well, you did an amazing performance either :)




An LMI player - 2013-05-19 5:44 PM

Most of the puzzle type are popular ones. As I was new to most of them, it would be unfair if I said the puzzle set as skewed or very hard. Very good set of puzzle, would be better if the time limit was a little more (say, a 15 minutes more).


Actually the puzzle types are not exactly popular; I can only recall Liar Slitherlink and Cipher Fillomino that appear abundantly in the puzzling community, with Elimination Tapa and Domino Nurikabe trailing. I don't think the remaining five have much exposure. But they are indeed variations of popular types. If you say so, okay :)

Well, LMI put a limit of 120 minutes for a test. I should have asked Deb whether a longer time is allowed. But sure, I indeed think that I overshoot the difficulty and should have given a longer time to work on.
@ 2013-05-19 8:41 PM (#11027 - in reply to #10966) (#11027) Top

rajeshk




Posts: 542
5002020
Country : India

rajeshk posted @ 2013-05-19 8:41 PM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? All puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2013-05-19 9:37 PM (#11029 - in reply to #10966) (#11029) Top

xevs



Posts: 43
2020
Country : Japan

xevs posted @ 2013-05-19 9:37 PM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? All puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Great appearances, natural ways to solve.
I like this kind of puzzle set ;-)

My favorites are Masyu 1, Fillomino 2 and Tapa 2.

Edited by xevs 2013-05-19 9:42 PM
@ 2013-05-19 11:44 PM (#11032 - in reply to #10966) (#11032) Top

Para



Posts: 315
100100100
Country : The Netherlands

Para posted @ 2013-05-19 11:44 PM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Was fun. A minute too little time, although that's because i wasted a lot of time on the second Liar Slitherlink as I missed something. Erased that one at least 5 times.
@ 2013-05-20 12:09 AM (#11033 - in reply to #10966) (#11033) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2013-05-20 12:09 AM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2013-05-20 12:43 AM (#11034 - in reply to #10966) (#11034) Top

Grizix



Posts: 30
20
Country : France

Grizix posted @ 2013-05-20 12:43 AM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? A bit hard
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Way too many puzzles (too little time)
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? All puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2013-05-20 12:53 AM (#11036 - in reply to #10966) (#11036) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2013-05-20 12:53 AM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? Many puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2013-05-20 4:08 AM (#11037 - in reply to #11036) (#11037) Top

MellowMelon



100
Country : United States

MellowMelon posted @ 2013-05-20 4:08 AM

If it's reassuring for deu, I also wasted about the same amount of time working with a different set of rules for Surveyor's. And as can probably be seen from my abysmal mistake record, I haven't been doing enough of these kinds of puzzles recently.

Great test. I'll have to figure out how on earth that second Nurikabe is proven to be unique later.

Edited by MellowMelon 2013-05-20 4:12 AM
@ 2013-05-20 12:13 PM (#11041 - in reply to #10966) (#11041) Top

Richard



Posts: 191
10020202020
Country : The Netherlands

Richard posted @ 2013-05-20 12:13 PM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? A bit hard
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Too few pages / too small grids


@ 2013-05-20 12:30 PM (#11042 - in reply to #11041) (#11042) Top

Richard



Posts: 191
10020202020
Country : The Netherlands

Richard posted @ 2013-05-20 12:30 PM

Interesting set of puzzles, although not all of them are on my most-favorite-list.
I wasted very much time on the first battleships, proving it had multiple solutions three times in a row, at the same place. After the test is over, I realised that the single dot underneath the 'S' is another ship. That didn't cross my mind during solving; I assumed it part of the S. I would have appreciated it when that ship was positioned next to the 'S', like the others in a row.

I found the cells in some of the puzzles a bit small, especially in the grids where digits or letters have to be written in the grids. I had problems writing in the domino and skyscraper puzzles. Especially in the case where half of the page is used to reproduce the instructions there was enough possible space to make the grids a bit larger.

All in all, I had an enjoyable morning, leaving me with a few interesting puzzles to try later. (As always.)
@ 2013-05-20 5:39 PM (#11044 - in reply to #10966) (#11044) Top

kiwijam



Posts: 181
10020202020
Country : New Zealand

kiwijam posted @ 2013-05-20 5:39 PM

I kept glancing at the top of the page to see how many points the puzzles were worth. It usually said 30+40points, but the puzzles seemed harder than that... now I'm pleased to find I was reading the wrong numbers.
@ 2013-05-20 6:02 PM (#11045 - in reply to #10966) (#11045) Top

chaotic_iak




Posts: 241
1001002020
Country : Indonesia

chaotic_iak posted @ 2013-05-20 6:02 PM

Grizix: Well, welcome to competitive puzzle solving. As you practice more, you will eventually pick up some speed. If you're fast enough, you can complete all puzzles with an ample amount of time remaining (13 minutes), as deu proved. Keep practicing and participating in contests, and you'll find that you can do faster and hence enough time for all puzzles. Thank you for your feedback!




MellowMelon - 2013-05-20 5:08 AM

I'll have to figure out how on earth that second Nurikabe is proven to be unique later.


I'll release a complete solution (as in walkthrough, not only answer) for it soon, after the test.




Richard - 2013-05-20 1:30 PM

I wasted very much time on the first battleships, proving it had multiple solutions three times in a row, at the same place. After the test is over, I realised that the single dot underneath the 'S' is another ship. That didn't cross my mind during solving; I assumed it part of the S. I would have appreciated it when that ship was positioned next to the 'S', like the others in a row.


Another person complained that the O seems to be a part of the S. I didn't realize that people might confuse the ships' shapes. A mental note for my future puzzles to distinguish the ships more clearly. I might as well go and put lines to mark borders between ships next time. Thank you for your feedback!




Richard - 2013-05-20 1:30 PM

I found the cells in some of the puzzles a bit small, especially in the grids where digits or letters have to be written in the grids. I had problems writing in the domino and skyscraper puzzles. Especially in the case where half of the page is used to reproduce the instructions there was enough possible space to make the grids a bit larger.


Well, this is my usual cell size (28px). I didn't think that it's too small. Besides, in the PB it looks like a 32px cell size will not fit two puzzles in the page (or if it is, the margins become too narrow). You should have said about that earlier, as I have warned (Visuals item 5). Thank you for your feedback!




kiwijam - 2013-05-20 6:39 PM

I kept glancing at the top of the page to see how many points the puzzles were worth. It usually said 30+40points, but the puzzles seemed harder than that... now I'm pleased to find I was reading the wrong numbers.


I should have differentiated the numbers more. Or just remove it altogether; all group bonuses are 30+40 anyway. Thank you for your feedback!

Edited by chaotic_iak 2013-05-20 6:04 PM
@ 2013-05-20 8:20 PM (#11046 - in reply to #10966) (#11046) Top

rajeshk




Posts: 542
5002020
Country : India

rajeshk posted @ 2013-05-20 8:20 PM

I too fall into the Battleship the same way as Richard did thinking that DOT is part of other battleship and found multiple solutions. Interesting for all multiple solutions were leading to same answer key which I tried to put but system showed that it is wrong. I tried to see error but could not find any error then at the end I thought that DOT may be separate and luckily could find and submit correct answer with just 5sec remaining on clock to get the bonus.
It was a surprise for me and as told earlier by Deb that not everyday we got surprises. I enjoyed this surprise but not sure about others.
@ 2013-05-20 10:01 PM (#11048 - in reply to #10966) (#11048) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2013-05-20 10:01 PM

Test is extended by 24 hours.

So it ends at 5/21/2013 11:59:59 PM GMT. See the submission page for exact timings, in your timezone.

@ 2013-05-21 12:11 AM (#11049 - in reply to #10966) (#11049) Top

Nola



Posts: 18

Country : Germany

Nola posted @ 2013-05-21 12:11 AM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? A bit hard
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2013-05-21 5:57 PM (#11055 - in reply to #10966) (#11055) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2013-05-21 5:57 PM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? A bit hard
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? All puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2013-05-21 8:27 PM (#11056 - in reply to #11045) (#11056) Top

auroux



Posts: 145
1002020
Country : France

auroux posted @ 2013-05-21 8:27 PM

chaotic_iak - 2013-05-20 5:02 AM

Well, welcome to competitive puzzle solving. As you practice more, you will eventually pick up some speed. If you're fast enough, you can complete all puzzles with an ample amount of time remaining (13 minutes), as deu proved. Keep practicing and participating in contests, and you'll find that you can do faster and hence enough time for all puzzles. Thank you for your feedback!




I think most experienced competitive puzzle solvers on this forum would disagree with your statement. No matter how much you train and practice, most of us will never reach Hideaki's level or even be able to finish a really tough puzzle set like yours.

The test was fun as usual, but I think you are guilty of presuming a bit too much (as is common for new contest designers -- I've made such mistakes a lot): I've learned to love Surveyors Heyawake, but "excessively complicated rules" would be a more honest description than "difficult genre". Extra wrinkles such as the non-straight battleships in the top battleships puzzles were really unnecessary given the tricky rules to begin with.

Denis
@ 2013-05-21 8:52 PM (#11057 - in reply to #10966) (#11057) Top

chaotic_iak




Posts: 241
1001002020
Country : Indonesia

chaotic_iak posted @ 2013-05-21 8:52 PM

Hm... There are four perfect scorers (solved all puzzles, even though getting several penalties) so far. If I recall correctly, so far all regular contests are of around this difficulty; only a few people (generally around 0-10) can finish all puzzles. (Best of LMI 2012 has none, 8th Open Moscow Puzzle Cup 2012 has none, forsmarts 10th Anniversary Contest has none, Word Show has none, Fillomino-Fillia 2 has 7. I think that supports my argument.)

Yes, you might not be able to reach Hideaki's level; some people might be born with some talent and hence has a head start. But if your target is an absolute one, like finishing twelve tests in a row, as opposed to a relative one, like topping twelve tests in a row (which is affected by how the others do), I'm pretty sure that's possible given enough practice.

For Surveyors Heyawake, okay, "excessively complicated rules". I might have fared better with only the inner clues (Heyawake + an extra rule borrowed from Minesweeper).

I don't agree with Battleships Yajilin being complicated though. It's a rather obvious crossover between Battleships and Yajilin, and if you at least know both genres, this genre isn't tricky. I think it's more of being unfamiliar to the genre, as it's not a common variation.

Edited by chaotic_iak 2013-05-21 8:52 PM
Deception — May Puzzle Test — 18th-20th May 201354 posts • Page 1 of 3 • 1 2 3
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