Thread - V2V — March Sudoku Test — 23rd-25th March 2013

@ 2013-03-16 6:20 PM (#10337 - in reply to #10336) (#10337) Top

Richard

Posts: 191

Country : The Netherlands

Richard posted @ 2013-03-16 6:20 PM

euklid - 2013-03-16 5:54 PM

Two rules question:

*) Clones: The rules say: "Cloned shapes may be rotated (not reflected!)." What happens in the case that a clone shape is a 1xn rectangle?
Let us assume that two corresponding clone shapes are I-shaped pentominos. For simplicity, both shall be horizontal. Is it allowed that one shapes contains the numbers 12345 and the other contains 54321.
By the rules this is allowed (may be rotated) and forbidden (not reflected). Please clarify (or tell us, that such shapes will not occur). :-)

*) Sum Sandwich: Here the rules seem perfectly clear to me but I would appreciate a confirmation...
Let us assume that two numbers are given outside the same row/column of the puzzle, say 3 6. Then 3 must be sandwiched by 1 and 2 and 6 must be sandwiched by 1/5 or 2/4. Those sandwiches may overlap, i.e. 23165 is valid.
The sequence 1 3 6 8 is not valid for this example (with the wrong thinking that the numbers 1 and 8 equal 9 and sandwich the numbers 3 and 6 equaling 9 also).

CLONES: If a clone shape is a 1xn-rectangle, reflection gives the same result as rotation, so in this case reflection is also allowed. In the practise puzzle (link also in my thread above) 1x2 and 1x3-shapes occur.

SUM SANDWICH: 23165 is a valid, partly overlapping solution for 3 and 6 both being sandwiched in the same row/column. I have written this example puzzle (link also in my thread above) on purpose with a long chain of overlapping sums in column 2.

@ 2013-03-17 4:42 PM (#10342 - in reply to #10337) (#10342) Top

Richard

Posts: 191

Country : The Netherlands

Richard posted @ 2013-03-17 4:42 PM

New practise puzzle added in the portal of LM Germany:
Perfect Squares. Enjoy!

Last practise puzzle will be published coming friday at noon (22 March).

@ 2013-03-17 6:43 PM (#10343 - in reply to #10230) (#10343) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2013-03-17 6:43 PM

In the SHAKEN CLONES, the rule is "Each shape is cloned one or more times."
Are all same shapes clones to each others or is it allowed to have 2 different pairs of clones for 4 same shapes, for example?

I look forward to this test. Some interesting new variations here

!

Fred

@ 2013-03-17 6:49 PM (#10344 - in reply to #10331) (#10344) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2013-03-17 6:49 PM

Richard - 2013-03-15 8:10 PM
Yes, the choice of increasing/decreasing has to be consistent within a given thermometer.
The example of 1234(5)6789 is not a valid thermometer.

IB has this clarification now.

@ 2013-03-17 7:18 PM (#10346 - in reply to #10343) (#10346) Top

Richard

Posts: 191

Country : The Netherlands

Richard posted @ 2013-03-17 7:18 PM

Fred76 - 2013-03-17 6:43 PM

... is it allowed to have 2 different pairs of clones for 4 same shapes, for example?

Hi Fred,

No, this is not allowed.

@ 2013-03-20 6:23 PM (#10359 - in reply to #10230) (#10359) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2013-03-20 6:23 PM

Selected examples can be solved online now.

@ 2013-03-22 4:38 PM (#10370 - in reply to #10342) (#10370) Top

Richard

Posts: 191

Country : The Netherlands

Richard posted @ 2013-03-22 4:38 PM

Richard - 2013-03-17 4:42 PM
Last practise puzzle will be published coming friday at noon (22 March).

As promised I have uploaded the last practise puzzle in the puzzle portal of LM Germany:

Rank Killer

With this last one I hope all participants can have a decent preparation to the test.

Good luck to all, and more important: Have fun!

@ 2013-03-23 3:53 AM (#10373 - in reply to #10230) (#10373) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2013-03-23 3:53 AM

Announcements

1) Password protected Sudoku booklet is uploaded. It has 7 pages. There is no cover page.
2) Paper only link : http://logicmastersindia.com/2013/03S/?paper=1 Use this link if you are not planning to use online solving at all. (Paper Only link will keep your browser less cluttered and less loaded)
3) Link to score page : http://logicmastersindia.com/2013/03S/score.asp
4) This thread will be made restricted so that players can freely discuss about the competition.

@ 2013-03-23 7:52 AM (#10375 - in reply to #10230) (#10375) Top

An LMI player

An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-23 7:52 AM

How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were?	Fairly balanced
What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles?	Just right
What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test?	Fairly Nice
How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test?	A bit too many puzzles
Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent?	Many puzzles were worth too much or too little
What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing?	Just right

@ 2013-03-23 3:45 PM (#10379 - in reply to #10230) (#10379) Top

TiiT

Posts: 139

Country : Estonia

TiiT posted @ 2013-03-23 3:45 PM

How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were?	Fairly balanced
What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles?	Just right
What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test?	Fairly Nice
How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test?	Just right
Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent?	Many puzzles were worth too much or too little
What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing?	Just right

@ 2013-03-23 7:49 PM (#10380 - in reply to #10230) (#10380) Top

DavidCollison

Posts: 5

Country : United Kingdom

DavidCollison posted @ 2013-03-23 7:49 PM

Thanks for an interesting set of puzzles.

I will be interested to see the answer for Rank Killer as I think I must have misunderstood the rules. I got stuck three times in the bottom left corner (a delay which later meant that I missed out on typing the answer for Holt/Cold Thermometer by about five seconds

). In case there is a problem with Rank Killer, I'll explain my logic.

r9c1 was the 5 of 1/2/3/5. The vertical 1/2/3 meant r5c2 had to be 4 rather than 3 with r7c1 as 8 to be third and r5c1/r6c1 as 6/9. r9c6 had to be 4 because r9c1 was already 5, which also gave 7/8/9 from r9c7 onwards. On r9, that left 1/2/3/6 to place. r9c4 had to be at least 3 to be third but could not be 6 because 6 plus a higher number in r7c4 would be too much for a four-cage total of 14. So, r9c4 is 3. That makes r8c4 and r9c5 1/2. 1+2+3+8=14 making r7c4 8 which clashes with r7c1.

Hope that made sense. Thanks again, David.

@ 2013-03-23 7:53 PM (#10381 - in reply to #10380) (#10381) Top

Richard

Posts: 191

Country : The Netherlands

Richard posted @ 2013-03-23 7:53 PM

Hi David,

Sorry to read that you had a lot of problems with the rank killer.

I have planned to write some lines about each puzzle as soon as the test is over, with at least the first important steps in the solving process. I hope that will help.

@ 2013-03-23 8:29 PM (#10382 - in reply to #10381) (#10382) Top

DavidCollison

Posts: 5

Country : United Kingdom

DavidCollison posted @ 2013-03-23 8:29 PM

Thanks Richard. I enjoyed the puzzles - thank you for all the work you have put into creating them. David.

@ 2013-03-23 9:53 PM (#10383 - in reply to #10380) (#10383) Top

prasanna16391

Posts: 1801

Country : India

prasanna16391 posted @ 2013-03-23 9:53 PM

DavidCollison - 2013-03-23 7:49 PM

r9c1 was the 5 of 1/2/3/5. The vertical 1/2/3 meant r5c2 had to be 4 rather than 3

I think you'll find you eliminated another possibility here itself, for R5C2 :)

@ 2013-03-23 9:59 PM (#10386 - in reply to #10383) (#10386) Top

DavidCollison

Posts: 5

Country : United Kingdom

DavidCollison posted @ 2013-03-23 9:59 PM

prasanna16391 - 2013-03-23 9:53 PM

DavidCollison - 2013-03-23 7:49 PM

r9c1 was the 5 of 1/2/3/5. The vertical 1/2/3 meant r5c2 had to be 4 rather than 3

I think you'll find you eliminated another possibility here itself, for R5C2 :)

Oh, now I see - thank you !

@ 2013-03-23 10:45 PM (#10387 - in reply to #10230) (#10387) Top

wicktroll

Posts: 16

Country : Hungary

wicktroll posted @ 2013-03-23 10:45 PM

How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were?	Fairly balanced
What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles?	Just right
What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test?	Fairly Nice
How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test?	Just right
Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent?	Most puzzles were worth the right amount
What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing?	Just right

@ 2013-03-23 10:57 PM (#10388 - in reply to #10230) (#10388) Top

forcolin

Posts: 172

Country : ITALY

forcolin posted @ 2013-03-23 10:57 PM

How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were?	Fairly balanced
What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles?	Just right
What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test?	Very nice
How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test?	Just right
Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent?	Most puzzles were worth the right amount
What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing?	Just right

@ 2013-03-24 5:05 AM (#10389 - in reply to #10230) (#10389) Top

Para

Posts: 315

Country : The Netherlands

Para posted @ 2013-03-24 5:05 AM

Can I get a Mulligan? Really nice puzzles, except my brain wasn't in the mood. Broke both the Clones and Greather than X 3 times. Knew my submission for the second one would be wrong, but had no time left, so thought. you never know.

@ 2013-03-24 11:06 AM (#10390 - in reply to #10230) (#10390) Top

kishy72

Posts: 419

Country : India

kishy72 posted @ 2013-03-24 11:06 AM

How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were?	Fairly balanced
What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles?	Too many hard puzzles
What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test?	Very nice
How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test?	Just right
Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent?	All puzzles were worth the right amount
What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing?	Just right

A beautiful test.Many thnks to the author for this wonderful test.I had great fun solving the test.
Got a deja vu of the masyu puzzle in puzzle marathon after seeing the primes without any dots.It is a good way to take the players by surpise.The conventional thinking gets disrupted totally.I was hoping to tackle this puzzle by making pencil marks of 1379 at the end of the dots. Because of the surprise factor this puzzle took me more time to solve than the hot/cold thermometer!
Hope to solve the remaining puzzles some time later.
One thing i would love to add here is the practise puzzles that the author posted before the test laying the foundation for the test beautifully.
Excellent test!!!I really enjoyed it!!

@ 2013-03-24 11:27 AM (#10391 - in reply to #10390) (#10391) Top

Richard

Posts: 191

Country : The Netherlands

Richard posted @ 2013-03-24 11:27 AM

kishy72 - 2013-03-24 11:06 AM

A beautiful test.Many thnks to the author for this wonderful test.I had great fun solving the test.
Got a deja vu of the masyu puzzle in puzzle marathon after seeing the primes without any dots.It is a good way to take the players by surpise.The conventional thinking gets disrupted totally.I was hoping to tackle this puzzle by making pencil marks of 1379 at the end of the dots. Because of the surprise factor this puzzle took me more time to solve than the hot/cold thermometer!
Hope to solve the remaining puzzles some time later.
One thing i would love to add here is the practise puzzles that the author posted before the test laying the foundation for the test beautifully.
Excellent test!!!I really enjoyed it!!

Thanks a lot for your kind words!

I will be happy to post full feedback on (practise) puzzles after the test is over.

@ 2013-03-24 12:03 PM (#10392 - in reply to #10230) (#10392) Top

PuzzleScott

Posts: 42

Country : United States

PuzzleScott posted @ 2013-03-24 12:03 PM

What do the instructions mean, in Perfects Squares and Primes, when they say "This constraint is not valid for vertically adjacent cells"?

Does it mean vertically adjacent cells aren't constrained, so they can even have or not have the pattern? (square or prime)

Or does it mean no two vertically adjacent cells can have the pattern? If the latter, kropki-like puzzles usually handle that by the presence or absence of a square or diamond, without a confusingly worded rule.

@ 2013-03-24 12:10 PM (#10393 - in reply to #10392) (#10393) Top

Richard

Posts: 191

Country : The Netherlands

Richard posted @ 2013-03-24 12:10 PM

PuzzleScott - 2013-03-24 12:03 PM

What do the instructions mean, in Perfects Squares and Primes, when they say "This constraint is not valid for vertically adjacent cells"?

Does it mean vertically adjacent cells aren't constrained, so they can even have or not have the pattern? (square or prime)

Or does it mean no two vertically adjacent cells can have the pattern? If the latter, kropki-like puzzles usually handle that by the presence or absence of a square or diamond, without a confusingly worded rule.

...without a confusingly worded rule...

Of course I don't want to confuse solvers, but I thought this was the best way to clarify the rules. Sorry if it's not...

What I mean is that it doesn't matter what digit combination appears in the columns, primes, squares, doesn't matter, so your first interpretation Does it mean vertically adjacent cells aren't constrained, so they can even have or not have the pattern? (square or prime) is correct.

@ 2013-03-24 2:33 PM (#10394 - in reply to #10393) (#10394) Top

PuzzleScott

Posts: 42

Country : United States

PuzzleScott posted @ 2013-03-24 2:33 PM

Thanks, that was my guess. Perhaps "constraint does not apply" instead of "constraint is not valid"?

Also, working the IB examples clarifies the question. Thanks!

@ 2013-03-24 4:59 PM (#10395 - in reply to #10230) (#10395) Top

An LMI player

An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-24 4:59 PM

How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were?	Perfectly balanced
What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles?	Just right
What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test?	Very nice
How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test?	Just right
Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent?	Most puzzles were worth the right amount
What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing?	Just right

@ 2013-03-24 5:35 PM (#10396 - in reply to #10230) (#10396) Top

rajeshk

Posts: 542

Country : India

rajeshk posted @ 2013-03-24 5:35 PM

How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were?	Fairly balanced
What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles?	A bit hard
What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test?	Very nice
How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test?	A bit too many puzzles
Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent?	All puzzles were worth the right amount
What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing?	Just right

Thanks for this great test. I really enjoyed solving it.