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Country : India | |
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Administrator
Country : India | Logic Masters India announces "akil oyunlari magazine competition", which is also LMI August Puzzle test
Author : Serkan Yurekli
Dates : 18 th - 20 th August
IB and Submission Link : here |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-08-11 10:06 PM There is a grammatical in the contest page. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | anurag - 2012-08-11 10:06 PM
There is a grammatical in the contest page.
I think the error in your sentence is that you're missing the word 'error'. :P |
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debmohanty
Country : India | anurag - 2012-08-11 10:06 PM
There is a grammatical in the contest page. Thank you. It is fixed now.
It will be nice to see some 'constructive' comments from you once in a while.
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-08-11 10:18 PM that was done at the speed of light! I hope i can solve the puzzles at the same speed. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-08-11 10:21 PM That was a little riddle for you to complete |
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debmohanty
Country : India | anurag - 2012-08-11 10:21 PM
That was a little riddle for you to complete Thank you.
It will be nice to see some 'constructive' comments from you once in a while.
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | Seems every type is very new and the competition will be tough one as we are not exposed to such variations.
Looking forward to it :) |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2012-08-12 3:45 AM |
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devarajand
Posts: 114
Country : India | Can the Signage rules be explained a bit more. Esp para 2. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-08-12 12:49 PM From every number,keep following the arrows until one of the grid edges is reached.You cannot skip an arrow in your way,which means all arrows are functional unless they are not obstructing your path.The significace of the number is,your path cannot reach the edge using fewer (or more)than that many arrows. |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2012-08-12 2:53 PM devarajand - 2012-08-12 12:10 PM
Can the Signage rules be explained a bit more. Esp para 2.
Look for example at the Arrow with the 5 in R4C3.
1 ) The path starts with the arrow up in R5C2. Going up the next arrow you encounter is in R2C3.
2 ) The arrow in R2C3 points left. Going left the next arrow you encounter is in R2C2.
3 ) The arrow in R2C2 points down. Going down the next arrow you encounter is in R5C2.
4 ) The arrow in R5C2 points right. Going right the next arrow you encounter is in R5C3.
5 ) The arrow in R5C3 point down. Going down you don't encounter any arrows anymore and the path leaves the grid.
So you've followed the direction of 5 arrows till the path leaves the grid. This is what the clue number in R4C3 indicates. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-08-12 3:58 PM Interestingly,I wrote a rising skyscrapers variation in late 2007, only that, it asked for the digits along grey lines to also be strictly consecutive, and not just increasing.That was perhaps a little more constrained,but it depends on how the design works.I made one with the same rules as in the LMI booklet.I think the lines interact nicely with the skscraper logic here. Also posted the one that follows the rules of my version.You can see both at - http://anuragthefirst.blogspot.in/2012/08/rising-skyscrapers.htmlEdited by prasanna16391 2012-08-12 7:50 PM
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | Me and Para tested the puzzle that the above post links to, and its not unique. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | prasanna16391 - 2012-08-12 5:39 PM
Me and Para tested the puzzle that the above post links too, and its not unique. So, what is new? |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-08-12 6:20 PM It is fixed. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | anurag - 2012-08-12 6:20 PM
It is fixed.
Not really. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-08-12 7:13 PM Its not easy to determine in the fixed version(with 2 more skyscraper clues) ,where 6 has to go in R7,so i added 6 inside. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | anurag - 2012-08-12 7:13 PM
Its not easy to determine in the fixed version(with 2 more skyscraper clues) ,where 6 has to go in R7,so i added 6 inside.
IMO, the puzzle is finally correct with a unique solution, so added back the link. |
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Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | I did not try the previous version, but this one seems fine indeed. |
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devarajand
Posts: 114
Country : India | Thanks its of great help |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | |
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Yuhei Kusui
Posts: 42
Country : Japan | So many innovative puzzles... I'm really looking forward to the actual test!
BTW, let me confirm one thing about Chained Ships; is it possible to place a ship segment on a letter?
(even if two As are covered by ship segments, the grid might be solved by connecting other letters)
Edited by Yuhei Kusui 2012-08-15 2:29 PM
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yureklis
Posts: 183
Country : Turkey | Yuhei Kusui - 2012-08-15 2:28 PM
So many innovative puzzles... I'm really looking forward to the actual test!
BTW, let me confirm one thing about Chained Ships; is it possible to place a ship segment on a letter?
(even if two As are covered by ship segments, the grid might be solved by connecting other letters)
Oooo cool approach : ) I like it. But no, each given lettter pair should be connected. |
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Yuhei Kusui
Posts: 42
Country : Japan | yureklis - 2012-08-15 5:17 PM
Yuhei Kusui - 2012-08-15 2:28 PM
So many innovative puzzles... I'm really looking forward to the actual test!
BTW, let me confirm one thing about Chained Ships; is it possible to place a ship segment on a letter?
(even if two As are covered by ship segments, the grid might be solved by connecting other letters)
Oooo cool approach : ) I like it. But no, each given lettter pair should be connected.
OK. Thanks :- ) |
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yureklis
Posts: 183
Country : Turkey | Some Remarks
Puzzle 1: 3rd rule of the puzzle transform to "Each area should contain exactly one number"
Puzzle 5: Write the 3 unused words , and ignore the Turkish letters when submitting answer.
Puzzle 9: Write the 3 unused words , and ignore the Turkish letters when submitting answer.
Time Bonus: I've changed the percentage (previous one %95) because of puzzle difficulty, so If a puzzler can get %90 of 1600 points (Total points), he/she will earn time bonus as 0,05 points per saved second.
Points distribution is available below.
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-08-17 6:08 PM When you say ignore the turkish letter, do you mean "ÇÖZÜM" becomes "ZM" or "COZUM" or something else?Any information on how many words will be used will be given,or is it part of the solve?
Edited by anurag 2012-08-17 6:10 PM
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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yureklis
Posts: 183
Country : Turkey | anurag - 2012-08-17 6:08 PM
When you say ignore the turkish letter, do you mean "ÇÖZÜM" becomes "ZM" or "COZUM" or something else?Any information on how many words will be used will be given,or is it part of the solve?
I mean that "ÇÖZÜM" should be "COZUM" when you submit. |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-08-17 7:04 PM |
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Administrator
Country : India | Announcements
Password protected pdf is uploaded. It has 12 pages, including a cover page. There is no points table.
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | I was looking at the example for signage in IB. Can anyone share a couple of starting steps? Except the clues on the edge, where arrows obviously cannot go towards the edge, I am unable to make much of a logical headway. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | rakesh_rai - 2012-08-18 9:11 AM
I was looking at the example for signage in IB. Can anyone share a couple of starting steps? Except the clues on the edge, where arrows obviously cannot go towards the edge, I am unable to make much of a logical headway.
Since the count starts including the clue arrow itself, the 2 clues have to reach some edge within 1 arrow. e.g. The 2 clue pointing downwards at R6C4 means R7C4 will have to be an arrow pointing leftward because it has to point directly toward an edge and there's an arrow on the right. This means you can cross out all the cells to the left, and there'll be an arrow on each cell on the right. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | prasanna16391 - 2012-08-18 10:00 AM
rakesh_rai - 2012-08-18 9:11 AM
I was looking at the example for signage in IB. Can anyone share a couple of starting steps? Except the clues on the edge, where arrows obviously cannot go towards the edge, I am unable to make much of a logical headway.
Since the count starts including the clue arrow itself, the 2 clues have to reach some edge within 1 arrow. e.g. The 2 clue pointing downwards at R6C4 means R7C4 will have to be an arrow pointing leftward because it has to point directly toward an edge and there's an arrow on the right. This means you can cross out all the cells to the left, and there'll be an arrow on each cell on the right. Thanks.
I realize my problem now. My printout was not showing any arrows. The shading of the arrows did not come out at all. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | ^
That problem didn't occur for me, during the test(I didn't take printout of the IB).
Anyways, great puzzles. I don't really like word puzzles/letter entry puzzles much, so a part of this test wasn't in my comfort zone, but I liked every puzzle I did solve. A power cut in between made certain I didn't even attempt some types I felt uncomfortable with :P So will have to try them out later.
Thanks for the test Serkan.
Edited by prasanna16391 2012-08-18 12:06 PM
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2012-08-19 1:13 AM Do I get extra points for accidentally solving the Spiral Battleships example in test time? I only noticed this when I went to enter the entry key and noticed it was the same as the example's entry key. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | Para - 2012-08-19 1:13 AM
Do I get extra points for accidentally solving the Spiral Battleships example in test time?
Only if I get extra points for solving 3 of the puzzles with the sole illumination provided by the laptop screen... I'm gonna solve under candlelight from next time. :| |
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Richard
Posts: 191
Country : The Netherlands | Richard posted @ 2012-08-19 2:44 AM Nice puzzles Serkan!
This time I solved almost all of the puzzle I had pre-selected.
Thanks a lot for a fun set with pretty innovative stuff! |
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tamz29
Posts: 225
Country : Thailand | tamz29 posted @ 2012-08-19 5:10 PM I personally thought some puzzles were under/over valued.
The two hours went so fast for me I didn't get to see some pages.
A great Serkan test as always. Thank you! |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | A puzzle test after such a long time, but performance was not that par which i expected.
Puzzles were excellent and yes i dont like word puzzles and never gave a look to it in the test :p
Anyways Thanks Serkan!! for such a wonderful test.
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Thanks Serkan for excellent puzzles and a very enjoyable test.
Like Swaroop, I also gave the word puzzles a miss. Probably we should have an exclusive test at some point for word puzzles. |
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yureklis
Posts: 183
Country : Turkey | tamz29 - 2012-08-19 5:10 PM
I personally thought some puzzles were under/over valued.
I never believe this. Because it only depends on solver ability. Some solvers can be good at math puzzles, some of them can be good at word puzzles etc. So from my side there is not any under/over valued things in tests. And I don't mean any extreme examples. For example, for this test three solvers tested all puzzles. Honestly there were some huge differences for some puzzles. So when I determine the puzzle points with considering tester times, I always use average solving times, and sometimes I interfere in this average value. But in any case I follow average solving times. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | rakesh_rai - 2012-08-19 10:01 PM
Like Swaroop, I also gave the word puzzles a miss. Probably we should have an exclusive test at some point for word puzzles.
That seems to be a common theme among the Indian participants. If you refer to my post above, the "uncomfortable" part did indeed refer to word puzzles (well, letter-entry puzzles too, but we know that weakness from the IPC don't we? ). I'd definitely have given 2-3 of them a try if I had a little more time after finishing the ones I actually did solve though.
Edited by prasanna16391 2012-08-20 1:03 AM
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motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2012-08-20 2:42 AM Thanks for the very excellent test Serkan; almost a perfect USPC preview (if I just had 2.5 hours to finish and check everything!).
I'm glad I had almost all of the back issues (7 of 9?) to practice on these puzzle types before starting. Even those who do not win the prize should consider getting AO regularly. |
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rachitrulz
Posts: 1
Country : India | hi..
just wanted to know the exact time duration of the test, and whether it is available for online solving or do we have to take a printout? |
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PuzzleScott
Posts: 42
Country : United States | IB Sudoku Builder seems to have a solution typo. Arrows ask for R4,C5. But the given solution is for R2,R4.
When both rows and columns have solution arrows, it appears the row arrows should precede the column arrows. Is that right? |
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Administrator
Country : India | PuzzleScott - 2012-08-20 11:14 AM
IB Sudoku Builder seems to have a solution typo. Arrows ask for R4,C5. But the given solution is for R2,R4. Yes. That is a typo in the IB.
PuzzleScott - 2012-08-20 11:14 AM
When both rows and columns have solution arrows, it appears the row arrows should precede the column arrows. Is that right? That is correct. But we do manual checks for each wrong submission and you will get points if the answer keys are swapped. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | rachitrulz - 2012-08-20 7:07 AM
hi..
just wanted to know the exact time duration of the test, and whether it is available for online solving or do we have to take a printout?
120 minutes. Not available for online solving, you'll have to take a printout. |
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PuzzleScott
Posts: 42
Country : United States | Nice puzzles, thanks! Good variety, creative, challenging (for me).
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Administrator
Country : India | Password removed from puzzle booklet.
Solution booklet uploaded here. It also has the list of authors who wrote the corresponding puzzles for akil oyunlari magazine. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | Congrats to the top 3 : Motris, Deu and Mellowmelon
Puzzles were nice. As i said earlier i am weak at Word puzzles so have to look upon it now. I liked calculations most among which i have submitted others i have to still try.
Spiral Battleships second i solved twice and was stuck in middle at the end with 18,19 and 20 and now looking at the solution it seems i missed that way.The RH factor one i solved completely
i submitted the right solution and then dont know what happened saw the second row AB as -ve one although i had written +ve over there and submitted the wrong solution just 2 seconds before my time got over.
So i guess it could have been better but at the end nice test..
Thanks to serkan and LMI for this test :) |
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yureklis
Posts: 183
Country : Turkey | Congratulations to Thomas. He passed Hideaki with solving 20 of the 21 puzzles in 115 minutes. They solved the same amount of puzzles with the same puzzle left out, but Thomas was 3 minutes faster than Hideaki. I think the New Style Crossword was a bit hard. Actually the test was hard in general. Thanks to all participants.
The top three are as follows:
1. Thomas Snyder (USA)
2. Hideaki Jo (JAPAN)
3. Palmer Mebane (USA)
These three people won a 1-year subscription for Akil Oyunlari magazine.
Some statistics:
- The puzzle solved by least competitors was New Style Crossword. It was solved by 9 competitors.
- The puzzle solved by most competitors was Sudoku Builder. It was solved by 124 competitors.
- The puzzle with the highest rating was Clueless Scrabble (9.66) and the puzzle with the lowest rating was Skyscrapers Rising 1 (7.08).
- The puzzle submitted with the highest accuracy was Chained Ships 2 (%100, 63/63 competitors), lowest was Signage 2 (%72.72, 16/22 competitors).
Hope to see you in the next competition!
Best
Serkan
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motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2012-08-22 12:55 PM As I've already said, this was a lovely test.
I generally do well on word puzzles so I wanted to share my thoughts on the two ones here. I think the New Style Crossword was at least 25% too large, or 25% under-connected or both. I spent about 5 minutes in the test on it, getting a few potential words in at the top but not with enough links to be sure I was on the right path. The puzzle was progressing way too slowly to invest more time on it. My guess was it would take about 20+ to finish it which at 8 points per minute was worth too little.
On the other hand, I loved the Clueless Scrabble. With lots of potential interlinks, once you had some elements of the solution (for example the top row was likely used, with three descending words, and two other crossing words), the puzzle accelerated nicely. I can't extract my exact timing as I submitted this with half another sheet done, but this was more like ~3 minutes for me.
In a construction sense, I've struggled with this on my Decathlon tests too, between building a puzzle that is too tedious versus one that rewards a good observational and logical approach. But I'm still always glad to see word puzzle styles to add more balance and offer different challenges.
Edited by motris 2012-08-22 12:58 PM
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yureklis
Posts: 183
Country : Turkey | When I began to construct New Style Crossword I had a nice point. There was only two words (ÇILEKE$ - VAZIH) with first and last letter appearing only once. So there were only two places to fit these words, after that solving process was going smoothly. I designed it based on this point. But then I remembered answer key format, I mentioned to write 3 unused words in the IB. So the starting point which I planned was not useful anymore because of asking 3 unused words for submission. So I changed some words, I tried to push some logic; but it didn't go well. Because I constructed all grid to consider ÇILEKE$-VAZIH fact. At the end, this one was hard puzzle, and it needed more searching than logic. One of the testers solved this puzzle in 15 minutes, the other in 22 minutes. So it seemed to me nearly 16-18 minutes puzzle.
About Clueless Scrabble, actually there was a lovely idea. There are 16 words, and 3 of them would not be used, so I tried to fit 13 words in the grid. If a solver writes possibilities of placement for each row and column, it would appear that 6 words should be placed in columns; 7 words should be placed in rows.
Edited by yureklis 2012-08-22 4:16 PM
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Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | yureklis - 2012-08-22 12:09 PM
About Clueless Scrabble, actually there was a lovely idea. There are 16 words, and 3 of them would not be used, so I tried to fit 13 words in the grid. If a solver writes possibilities of placement for each row and column, it would appear that 6 words should be placed in columns; 7 words should be placed in rows.
That's how I solved it - after the test, unfortunately. I did not look at it during the test itself since I am not that experienced with word puzzles and preferred to concentrate on other things, but it was probably a mistake.
Overall, the test was very good. Nurikabe loops were nice, especially the use of the "10" clue in the big puzzle. I am glad of what you did with "my" puzzle. Sudoku builder is not something I am fond of but both were good enough to make me forget it. Double loop was excellent, I really had a great time solving it. Not that hard once you figured out a few things. I liked Spiral battleships too but solved (after the test ) the second one more intuitively than purely logically. New style crossword is one of the two puzzles I haven't cracked yet (not even tried, in fact ) so nothing to say about it yet. Calculations were good; I found them easy but calculation is usually one of my strong points, so no surprise.
I must say that I liked somewhat less the "Skyscrapers rising" sheet. Not that the puzzles were bad of course, but some useless clues made me find them a bit less satisfying to solve than other puzzles. First Signage was fairly easy, and the second one very interesting but again I relied much on intuition to crack it (which was efficient, since my intuitions proved to be all correct ). Too bad I didn't try it during the test.
Chained ships combined two of the puzzle types I am the most uncomfortable with, so I confess I didn't even look at the sheet. Since that I solved the first one but have made no progress on the second.
Finally, RH factors were again nice puzzles, although quite error-prone; I am very glad I could solve both without mistake.
Thank you Serkan! |
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Richard
Posts: 191
Country : The Netherlands | Richard posted @ 2012-08-22 5:31 PM I didn't have much to time to prepare for this test, but after reading the IB I thought there were enough interesting puzzles that I felt comfortable with to keep me occupied for two hours. My 'most wanted' list consisted of the Nurikabe loops, the skyscrapers and the sudokus. My 'try after that' list contained the calculations and the linked battleships. That added up to around 40% of points total, more than I solve usually. The nurikabe loops went well. I stumbled too long on the second sudoku, but after I realised (much too late) that all regions had to consist of 2 areas of size 3 and 1 of size 2, it went quick. The area top left provides much info on this point. On the right side I made not enough progress. Skyscrapers went quick as well, only made a mistake in the hardest one, so that cost me some time. There was even enough time to do three puzzles of the 'try after that' list too.
Meanwhile I have solved the word puzzles too. I like them a lot, but not in speed solving. They are lovely to solve for leisure, in the garden in the sun. Also the spiral battleships and arrow puzzles were great, they scared me a bit before the test, but they can be done with logical steps in good steady progress.
Thanks for the test once again. It gives me new inspiration for future puzzles, but that's the case with most tests here at LMI!
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Administrator
Country : India | Almost forgot to mention that Serkan had also agreed to 1-year subscription of Akil Oyunlari magazine for best Indian player. Congrats Rakesh for the top rank, and hope you will enjoy the puzzles in Akil Oyunlari as much as everyone else does.
Thanks Serkan for the test and the prizes. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Administrator - 2012-08-23 9:46 PM
Almost forgot to mention that Serkan had also agreed to 1-year subscription of Akil Oyunlari magazine for best Indian player. Congrats Rakesh for the top rank, and hope you will enjoy the puzzles in Akil Oyunlari as much as everyone else does.
Thanks Serkan for the test and the prizes. Thanks Serkan and Deb. |
akil oyunlari magazine competition — LMI August Puzzle Test — 18th-20th August 2012
