Thread - L O G I D O K U — LMI June Sudoku Test

@ 2011-06-15 6:18 PM (#4867 - in reply to #4823) (#4867) Top

Posts: 25

Country : United States

SKnight posted @ 2011-06-15 6:18 PM

In the Kakuro Sudoku example, there are a couple of issues.
First, the "19" in row 4 should pretty clearly be a "17".
Also, even assuming that fix, there are three different solutions, I think. The 3's and 5's in rows 5/7 could be swapped without affecting the sums, and there's a third solution where you swap the 2 and 3 in the last column and then adjust 2's, 3's and 5's accordingly.

@ 2011-06-15 6:42 PM (#4868 - in reply to #4867) (#4868) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-06-15 6:42 PM

Yes, the sum of 19 needs to be corrected in the example.

Regarding 3 and 5 being exchangable : This is not allowed since digits can't repeat in rows / columns / outlined regions.

@ 2011-06-16 2:51 AM (#4870 - in reply to #4868) (#4870) Top

SKnight

Posts: 25

Country : United States

SKnight posted @ 2011-06-16 2:51 AM

debmohanty - 2011-06-15 9:42 AM

Yes, the sum of 19 needs to be corrected in the example.

Regarding 3 and 5 being exchangable : This is not allowed since digits can't repeat in rows / columns / outlined regions.

Um... maybe I'm being dense here, but if you swap both pairs, how do they repeat?

3 5
5 3

vs

5 3
3 5

???

@ 2011-06-16 3:06 AM (#4871 - in reply to #4870) (#4871) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:06 AM

SKnight - 2011-06-16 2:51 AM

Um... maybe I'm being dense here, but if you swap both pairs, how do they repeat?

3 5
5 3

vs

5 3
3 5

???

They repeat in the outlined (irregular) regions if you swap both pairs

Fred

@ 2011-06-16 3:13 PM (#4874 - in reply to #4867) (#4874) Top

swaroop2011

Posts: 668

Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:13 PM

KAKURO SUDOKU
1) Apart from that printing mistake of 19 in row 4 which should have been 17 as mentioned earlier, i am getting multiple solution.
other than what given in the solution i am getting different solution. here by i am attaching a photo of it.
i am not able to find any mistake in it please check it out.

@ 2011-06-16 3:23 PM (#4875 - in reply to #4874) (#4875) Top

rakesh_rai

Posts: 774

Country : India

rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-06-16 3:23 PM

swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 3:13 PM

KAKURO SUDOKU
1) Apart from that printing mistake of 19 in row 4 which should have been 17 as mentioned earlier, i am getting multiple solution.other than what given in the solution i am getting different solution. here by i am attaching a photo of it.
i am not able to find any mistake in it please check it out.

Look at the first two columns...lot of numbers are repeating.

@ 2011-06-16 3:26 PM (#4876 - in reply to #4874) (#4876) Top

harmeet

Posts: 87

Country : India

harmeet posted @ 2011-06-16 3:26 PM

Swaroop, you've two 4's and two 2's in the first column for e.g.

@ 2011-06-16 3:31 PM (#4877 - in reply to #4876) (#4877) Top

swaroop2011

Posts: 668

Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:31 PM

i thought ki the row and column meant between two black cells,
ok now it is clear.

@ 2011-06-16 3:40 PM (#4878 - in reply to #4823) (#4878) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-06-16 3:40 PM

Swaroop and others, please remember that this is not a standard Kakuro puzzle. Digits can NOT be repeated across rows / columns / outlined regions.

This puzzle is also known are 'Sudo-Kuro'

Here are one more example from mock6

Also, see Rohan's blog for 2 more puzzles from Sudoku Cup 1.

@ 2011-06-16 3:43 PM (#4879 - in reply to #4877) (#4879) Top

swaroop2011

Posts: 668

Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:43 PM

1)SKYSCRAPERS SUDOKU

can anybody tell me the mistake in this image now, here too i am getting same problem of multiple solution.

2) can any body help out with how to start the BATTLESHIP SUDOKU, i am not getting any hint.

Spoiler: show

@ 2011-06-16 3:46 PM (#4880 - in reply to #4879) (#4880) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-06-16 3:46 PM

swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 3:43 PM

1)SKYSCRAPERS SUDOKU

can anybody tell me the mistake in this image now, here too i am getting same problem of multiple solution.

You've ignored the hint 5 at bottom of column 6.

@ 2011-06-16 3:50 PM (#4881 - in reply to #4823) (#4881) Top

swaroop2011

Posts: 668

Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:50 PM

ok got it again did very silly mistake. i think now i should improve upon this. thanks .
what about BATTLESHIP SUDOKU?

@ 2011-06-16 3:59 PM (#4882 - in reply to #4881) (#4882) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-06-16 3:59 PM

swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 3:50 PM

ok got it again did very silly mistake. i think now i should improve upon this. thanks .
what about BATTLESHIP SUDOKU?

In Battleship Sudoku, you have to remember that the given digits can't be part of ships (i.e. they are like Water cells in standard Battleships puzzle)

Considering that, it is easy to figure that the 1X3 ship can lie horizontally in row6. It can't lie vertically in Col1 or Col3 (then it is not possible to satisfy Col2).
So, you get 4 at R6C2.
From that it should be easy to determine that the 1X2 ships will be in R1C2C3 and R3R4C1. You should be able to solve it after that.

Apart from the link Rohan mentioned, you should be able get 9X9 Battleship Sudokus from motris' blog

See - http://motris.livejournal.com/79580.html, http://motris.livejournal.com/18608.html,... http://motris.livejournal.com/79580.html

@ 2011-06-16 4:27 PM (#4884 - in reply to #4823) (#4884) Top

swaroop2011

Posts: 668

Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 4:27 PM

any hints for
JAPANESE SUMS SUDOKU - not able to start it.

@ 2011-06-16 4:34 PM (#4885 - in reply to #4884) (#4885) Top

rakesh_rai

Posts: 774

Country : India

rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-06-16 4:34 PM

swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 4:27 PM

any hints for JAPANESE SUMS SUDOKU - not able to start it.

Look at column 5 and/or row 5. hints are obvious, you can get started.

Edited by rakesh_rai 2011-06-16 4:37 PM

@ 2011-06-16 4:46 PM (#4886 - in reply to #4823) (#4886) Top

swaroop2011

Posts: 668

Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 4:46 PM

i started with that but i only was able to get two numbers 3 and 2 in row 5 and only number '3' in column 5.
other numbers 2 and 5 of column 5 have many possibities(in respect of position as well as numbers used)

@ 2011-06-16 5:04 PM (#4887 - in reply to #4823) (#4887) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-06-16 5:04 PM

You also have start marking cells which are black.
There are many openings in this example (you get a 2 sixes at R6C2, R2C6), spend some more time on the example, and you should be able to do it.

@ 2011-06-16 5:06 PM (#4888 - in reply to #4823) (#4888) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-06-16 5:06 PM

It is also useful to solve the basic puzzle type (Japanese sums in this case) first before attacking Japanese Sums + Sudoku.

@ 2011-06-16 5:10 PM (#4889 - in reply to #4878) (#4889) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2011-06-16 5:10 PM

Administrator - 2011-06-16 3:40 PM

Also, see Rohan's blog for 2 more puzzles from Sudoku Cup 1.

Here is another sudokuro that I've just created (I've not time to post on my blog right now):

Fred

@ 2011-06-16 7:50 PM (#4892 - in reply to #4871) (#4892) Top

SKnight

Posts: 25

Country : United States

SKnight posted @ 2011-06-16 7:50 PM

They repeat in the outlined (irregular) regions if you swap both pairs

Ah! Got it. The outlined regions were a little subtle -- didn't really notice them.
I'm glad I asked -- now I know to look for them on the real test.

@ 2011-06-17 1:15 AM (#4893 - in reply to #4823) (#4893) Top

DreamRose311

Posts: 24

Country : United States

DreamRose311 posted @ 2011-06-17 1:15 AM

Hmmm, does anyone else think this should affect the Sudoku ratings AND and the puzzle ratings? Hehe... This looks like a lot of fun, can't wait!

@ 2011-06-17 2:42 PM (#4894 - in reply to #4823) (#4894) Top

rob

Posts: 170

Country : Germany

rob posted @ 2011-06-17 2:42 PM

After solving the puzzles in the instructions booklet, I'm looking forward to this a lot. The sample puzzles were very well done, and some were really tricky. So I think we can expect some beautiful puzzles, and fear some very difficult ones.

@ 2011-06-17 4:12 PM (#4895 - in reply to #4893) (#4895) Top

rakesh_rai

Posts: 774

Country : India

rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-06-17 4:12 PM

DreamRose311 - 2011-06-17 1:15 AM

Hmmm, does anyone else think this should affect the Sudoku ratings AND and the puzzle ratings?...

You do have a point...puzzle experts definitely have some advantage in this test.

@ 2011-06-17 4:43 PM (#4896 - in reply to #4895) (#4896) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-06-17 4:43 PM

rakesh_rai - 2011-06-17 4:12 PM
You do have a point...puzzle experts definitely have some advantage in this test.

We had a very similar mock16 last year. While the competition has changed considerably at LMI since then, the results of mock16 suggested that 'puzzle experts' don't really have much advantage. Having solved couple of actual puzzles from the test, I think the 'Sudoku part' is as dominant as in other Sudoku tests.

@ 2011-06-17 11:38 PM (#4897 - in reply to #4823) (#4897) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-06-17 11:38 PM

Password protected booklet uploaded. It has 10 pages, each page has one 6X6 and one 9X9 of the same type.


	@ 2011-06-15 6:18 PM (#4867 - in reply to #4823) (#4867) Top
SKnight Posts: 25 Country : United States	SKnight posted @ 2011-06-15 6:18 PM In the Kakuro Sudoku example, there are a couple of issues. First, the "19" in row 4 should pretty clearly be a "17". Also, even assuming that fix, there are three different solutions, I think. The 3's and 5's in rows 5/7 could be swapped without affecting the sums, and there's a third solution where you swap the 2 and 3 in the last column and then adjust 2's, 3's and 5's accordingly.
	@ 2011-06-15 6:42 PM (#4868 - in reply to #4867) (#4868) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2011-06-15 6:42 PM Yes, the sum of 19 needs to be corrected in the example. Regarding 3 and 5 being exchangable : This is not allowed since digits can't repeat in rows / columns / outlined regions.
	@ 2011-06-16 2:51 AM (#4870 - in reply to #4868) (#4870) Top
SKnight Posts: 25 Country : United States	SKnight posted @ 2011-06-16 2:51 AM debmohanty - 2011-06-15 9:42 AM Yes, the sum of 19 needs to be corrected in the example. Regarding 3 and 5 being exchangable : This is not allowed since digits can't repeat in rows / columns / outlined regions. Um... maybe I'm being dense here, but if you swap both pairs, how do they repeat? 3 5 5 3 vs 5 3 3 5 ???
	@ 2011-06-16 3:06 AM (#4871 - in reply to #4870) (#4871) Top
Fred76 Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland	Fred76 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:06 AM SKnight - 2011-06-16 2:51 AM debmohanty - 2011-06-15 9:42 AM Yes, the sum of 19 needs to be corrected in the example. Regarding 3 and 5 being exchangable : This is not allowed since digits can't repeat in rows / columns / outlined regions. Um... maybe I'm being dense here, but if you swap both pairs, how do they repeat? 3 5 5 3 vs 5 3 3 5 ??? They repeat in the outlined (irregular) regions if you swap both pairs Fred
	@ 2011-06-16 3:13 PM (#4874 - in reply to #4867) (#4874) Top
swaroop2011 Posts: 668 Country : India	swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:13 PM KAKURO SUDOKU 1) Apart from that printing mistake of 19 in row 4 which should have been 17 as mentioned earlier, i am getting multiple solution. other than what given in the solution i am getting different solution. here by i am attaching a photo of it. i am not able to find any mistake in it please check it out.
	@ 2011-06-16 3:23 PM (#4875 - in reply to #4874) (#4875) Top
rakesh_rai Posts: 774 Country : India	rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-06-16 3:23 PM swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 3:13 PM KAKURO SUDOKU 1) Apart from that printing mistake of 19 in row 4 which should have been 17 as mentioned earlier, i am getting multiple solution.other than what given in the solution i am getting different solution. here by i am attaching a photo of it. i am not able to find any mistake in it please check it out. Look at the first two columns...lot of numbers are repeating.
	@ 2011-06-16 3:26 PM (#4876 - in reply to #4874) (#4876) Top
harmeet Posts: 87 Country : India	harmeet posted @ 2011-06-16 3:26 PM Swaroop, you've two 4's and two 2's in the first column for e.g.
	@ 2011-06-16 3:31 PM (#4877 - in reply to #4876) (#4877) Top
swaroop2011 Posts: 668 Country : India	swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:31 PM i thought ki the row and column meant between two black cells, ok now it is clear.
	@ 2011-06-16 3:40 PM (#4878 - in reply to #4823) (#4878) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-06-16 3:40 PM Swaroop and others, please remember that this is not a standard Kakuro puzzle. Digits can NOT be repeated across rows / columns / outlined regions. This puzzle is also known are 'Sudo-Kuro' Here are one more example from mock6 Also, see Rohan's blog for 2 more puzzles from Sudoku Cup 1.
	@ 2011-06-16 3:43 PM (#4879 - in reply to #4877) (#4879) Top
swaroop2011 Posts: 668 Country : India	swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:43 PM 1)SKYSCRAPERS SUDOKU can anybody tell me the mistake in this image now, here too i am getting same problem of multiple solution. 2) can any body help out with how to start the BATTLESHIP SUDOKU, i am not getting any hint. Spoiler: show
	@ 2011-06-16 3:46 PM (#4880 - in reply to #4879) (#4880) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-06-16 3:46 PM swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 3:43 PM 1)SKYSCRAPERS SUDOKU can anybody tell me the mistake in this image now, here too i am getting same problem of multiple solution. You've ignored the hint 5 at bottom of column 6.
	@ 2011-06-16 3:50 PM (#4881 - in reply to #4823) (#4881) Top
swaroop2011 Posts: 668 Country : India	swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:50 PM ok got it again did very silly mistake. i think now i should improve upon this. thanks . what about BATTLESHIP SUDOKU?
	@ 2011-06-16 3:59 PM (#4882 - in reply to #4881) (#4882) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-06-16 3:59 PM swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 3:50 PM ok got it again did very silly mistake. i think now i should improve upon this. thanks . what about BATTLESHIP SUDOKU? In Battleship Sudoku, you have to remember that the given digits can't be part of ships (i.e. they are like Water cells in standard Battleships puzzle) Considering that, it is easy to figure that the 1X3 ship can lie horizontally in row6. It can't lie vertically in Col1 or Col3 (then it is not possible to satisfy Col2). So, you get 4 at R6C2. From that it should be easy to determine that the 1X2 ships will be in R1C2C3 and R3R4C1. You should be able to solve it after that. Apart from the link Rohan mentioned, you should be able get 9X9 Battleship Sudokus from motris' blog See - http://motris.livejournal.com/79580.html, http://motris.livejournal.com/18608.html,... http://motris.livejournal.com/79580.html
	@ 2011-06-16 4:27 PM (#4884 - in reply to #4823) (#4884) Top
swaroop2011 Posts: 668 Country : India	swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 4:27 PM any hints for JAPANESE SUMS SUDOKU - not able to start it.
	@ 2011-06-16 4:34 PM (#4885 - in reply to #4884) (#4885) Top
rakesh_rai Posts: 774 Country : India	rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-06-16 4:34 PM swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 4:27 PM any hints for JAPANESE SUMS SUDOKU - not able to start it. Look at column 5 and/or row 5. hints are obvious, you can get started. Edited by rakesh_rai 2011-06-16 4:37 PM
	@ 2011-06-16 4:46 PM (#4886 - in reply to #4823) (#4886) Top
swaroop2011 Posts: 668 Country : India	swaroop2011 posted @ 2011-06-16 4:46 PM i started with that but i only was able to get two numbers 3 and 2 in row 5 and only number '3' in column 5. other numbers 2 and 5 of column 5 have many possibities(in respect of position as well as numbers used)
	@ 2011-06-16 5:04 PM (#4887 - in reply to #4823) (#4887) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-06-16 5:04 PM You also have start marking cells which are black. There are many openings in this example (you get a 2 sixes at R6C2, R2C6), spend some more time on the example, and you should be able to do it.
	@ 2011-06-16 5:06 PM (#4888 - in reply to #4823) (#4888) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-06-16 5:06 PM It is also useful to solve the basic puzzle type (Japanese sums in this case) first before attacking Japanese Sums + Sudoku.
	@ 2011-06-16 5:10 PM (#4889 - in reply to #4878) (#4889) Top
Fred76 Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland	Fred76 posted @ 2011-06-16 5:10 PM Administrator - 2011-06-16 3:40 PM Also, see Rohan's blog for 2 more puzzles from Sudoku Cup 1. Here is another sudokuro that I've just created (I've not time to post on my blog right now): Fred
	@ 2011-06-16 7:50 PM (#4892 - in reply to #4871) (#4892) Top
SKnight Posts: 25 Country : United States	SKnight posted @ 2011-06-16 7:50 PM They repeat in the outlined (irregular) regions if you swap both pairs Ah! Got it. The outlined regions were a little subtle -- didn't really notice them. I'm glad I asked -- now I know to look for them on the real test.
	@ 2011-06-17 1:15 AM (#4893 - in reply to #4823) (#4893) Top
DreamRose311 Posts: 24 Country : United States	DreamRose311 posted @ 2011-06-17 1:15 AM Hmmm, does anyone else think this should affect the Sudoku ratings AND and the puzzle ratings? Hehe... This looks like a lot of fun, can't wait!
	@ 2011-06-17 2:42 PM (#4894 - in reply to #4823) (#4894) Top
rob Posts: 170 Country : Germany	rob posted @ 2011-06-17 2:42 PM After solving the puzzles in the instructions booklet, I'm looking forward to this a lot. The sample puzzles were very well done, and some were really tricky. So I think we can expect some beautiful puzzles, and fear some very difficult ones.
	@ 2011-06-17 4:12 PM (#4895 - in reply to #4893) (#4895) Top
rakesh_rai Posts: 774 Country : India	rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-06-17 4:12 PM DreamRose311 - 2011-06-17 1:15 AM Hmmm, does anyone else think this should affect the Sudoku ratings AND and the puzzle ratings?... You do have a point...puzzle experts definitely have some advantage in this test.
	@ 2011-06-17 4:43 PM (#4896 - in reply to #4895) (#4896) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2011-06-17 4:43 PM rakesh_rai - 2011-06-17 4:12 PM You do have a point...puzzle experts definitely have some advantage in this test. We had a very similar mock16 last year. While the competition has changed considerably at LMI since then, the results of mock16 suggested that 'puzzle experts' don't really have much advantage. Having solved couple of actual puzzles from the test, I think the 'Sudoku part' is as dominant as in other Sudoku tests.
	@ 2011-06-17 11:38 PM (#4897 - in reply to #4823) (#4897) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-06-17 11:38 PM Password protected booklet uploaded. It has 10 pages, each page has one 6X6 and one 9X9 of the same type.