Thread - LMI Spring Sudoku Test (26th/27th March)

@ 2011-03-16 3:18 PM (#3751 - in reply to #3740) (#3751) Top

neerajmehrotra

Posts: 329

Country : India

neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-03-16 3:18 PM

A very interesting IB. Only request is use of less number of colors so as to avoid confusion while printing on a B&W printer.

@ 2011-03-16 4:12 PM (#3752 - in reply to #3740) (#3752) Top

Ours brun

Posts: 148

Country : France

Ours brun posted @ 2011-03-16 4:12 PM

Indeed there is a lot of colors (in order to match with the theme of spring), but it should not affect printing in B&W.

@ 2011-03-16 6:15 PM (#3753 - in reply to #3752) (#3753) Top

rakesh_rai

Posts: 774

Country : India

rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-03-16 6:15 PM

Do the colours in "Greater than and killer" mean anything from a sudoku perspective?

@ 2011-03-16 6:29 PM (#3754 - in reply to #3753) (#3754) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-16 6:29 PM

neerajmehrotra - 2011-03-16 3:18 PM

A very interesting IB. Only request is use of less number of colors so as to avoid confusion while printing on a B&W printer.

As Ours Brun said, there will be some colors inside grids. It was hard not to be tempted using colors as the theme of test is Spring

. However, we prepared grids (especially extra-regions) such that there will not be confusion while printing on a B&W printer.

rakesh_rai - 2011-03-16 6:15 PM

Do the colours in "Greater than and killer" mean anything from a sudoku perspective?

No, nothing. You can solve this grid without worrying colors.

Fred

@ 2011-03-16 6:50 PM (#3755 - in reply to #3754) (#3755) Top

rakesh_rai

Posts: 774

Country : India

rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-03-16 6:50 PM

In sundoku, there are eight possible ray directions. If a ray is not marked (like in the example), does it imply that the numbers on that line CANNOT be in decreasing order.

@ 2011-03-16 7:12 PM (#3756 - in reply to #3755) (#3756) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-16 7:12 PM

rakesh_rai - 2011-03-16 6:50 PM

In sundoku, there are eight possible ray directions. If a ray is not marked (like in the example), does it imply that the numbers on that line CANNOT be in decreasing order.

No, it doesn't mean that ! There are no restrictions on cells where there isn't any ray, no matter if one could imagine a ray in that direction.

(The real fact is that I failed to build a 6*6 grid with an 8 rays' sun - if someone achieve this, I would be happy to see

)

Fred

@ 2011-03-16 7:40 PM (#3757 - in reply to #3754) (#3757) Top

Ours brun

Posts: 148

Country : France

Ours brun posted @ 2011-03-16 7:40 PM

To be crystal clear concerning colors : colors don't have any importance, on any puzzle. They are purely decorative ; we were wishing to make this test a "festive" one, so, as Fred said, it was nearly impossible not to put some colors in...

You really need not worrying about that. You'd better worry about the puzzles themselves...!

@ 2011-03-16 7:43 PM (#3758 - in reply to #3756) (#3758) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-16 7:43 PM

Haha !!!

Don't worry, be happy !

@ 2011-03-16 7:54 PM (#3759 - in reply to #3757) (#3759) Top

purifire

Posts: 460

Country : India

purifire posted @ 2011-03-16 7:54 PM

Ours brun - 2011-03-16 7:40 PM

You really need not worrying about that. You'd better worry about the puzzles themselves...!

Please stop scaring me

Rishi

@ 2011-03-16 9:10 PM (#3760 - in reply to #3759) (#3760) Top

neerajmehrotra

Posts: 329

Country : India

neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-03-16 9:10 PM

happy as always!!! :-)
I am not able to understand the double sudoku. I am clear with the rules but not able to get an start in the sample puzzle in the IB.
Any volunteers for step by step help.....

@ 2011-03-16 9:50 PM (#3761 - in reply to #3760) (#3761) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-16 9:50 PM

neerajmehrotra - 2011-03-16 9:10 PM

happy as always!!! :-)
I am not able to understand the double sudoku. I am clear with the rules but not able to get an start in the sample puzzle in the IB.
Any volunteers for step by step help.....

Starting point are the 2 R's. There are only 2 ways to addition some 1-6 digits with result 18: 1+2+4+5+6 or 3+4+5+6. the consequence is that the 3 should be on first or last position, and on the opposite you have a pair 12. So you have 3 on R4C6 and R6C5, Then also on R2C4 (just classical placement). Then you can study the "E" columns where 2-3 must touch each other and 1-4 also.

I think that give a good start !

Fred

@ 2011-03-16 9:51 PM (#3762 - in reply to #3760) (#3762) Top

purifire

Posts: 460

Country : India

purifire posted @ 2011-03-16 9:51 PM

Neeraj, look at row 4.... the value of R is 18... now in a 6x6 the sum of all numbers is 21.... so number 3 is the uncommon part of the 2 way sum...
so we need 3 at one end and the numbers 1&2 at the other and 4,5,6 in between. Since 3 is already there in Col 1...R4C6 is a 3 and R4C12 has pencil marks of 1,2.

@ 2011-03-16 9:53 PM (#3763 - in reply to #3761) (#3763) Top

purifire

Posts: 460

Country : India

purifire posted @ 2011-03-16 9:53 PM

Fred76 - 2011-03-16 9:50 PM

I have the images for solution ready but I am getting a server error when trying to upload...

Rishi

@ 2011-03-16 10:46 PM (#3764 - in reply to #3740) (#3764) Top

neerajmehrotra

Posts: 329

Country : India

neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-03-16 10:46 PM

Thanx Rishi and Fred.............
That was excellent......... i cud solve it now....

@ 2011-03-18 10:52 AM (#3777 - in reply to #3764) (#3777) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-03-18 10:52 AM

The online example image (SunDoku) is now marked with Arrows.

@ 2011-03-18 4:14 PM (#3780 - in reply to #3746) (#3780) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-18 4:14 PM

rakesh_rai - 2011-03-16 10:03 AM

Administrator - 2011-03-16 9:50 AM

If the same Sudoku is submitted using both modes and only one of them is correct, it will be left to organizers to decide if points are to be awarded.

I think no points should be awarded in such cases as, otherwise, this system can be (mis)used to make answer guesses.

I think the best decision is to take into account the last submission, whether by one or the other mode. A player can solve on paper, submit, and then realize there is a mistake. Perhaps he choose to solve again with interface, and submit again. Or the reverse situation. Of course, if the first submission is correct and the second one not, it's a pity for the player...
So please, don't submit a false code if you had already submit the right one

Fred

@ 2011-03-18 4:29 PM (#3781 - in reply to #3780) (#3781) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-03-18 4:29 PM

Fred76 - 2011-03-18 4:14 PM

I think the best decision is to take into account the last submission, whether by one or the other mode. A player can solve on paper, submit, and then realize there is a mistake. Perhaps he choose to solve again with interface, and submit again. Or the reverse situation. Of course, if the first submission is correct and the second one not, it's a pity for the player...

Fred

That seems ideal. We'll stick to this rule (at least for this test, and revisit in the next test if required)

@ 2011-03-19 9:36 PM (#3786 - in reply to #3781) (#3786) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-03-19 9:36 PM

Instructions in Chinese available in SudokuFans forum - http://www.sudokufans.org.cn/forums/index.php?showtopic=247

@ 2011-03-19 9:42 PM (#3787 - in reply to #3786) (#3787) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-03-19 9:42 PM

After reading the translation at sudokufans forum, I'm suddenly having a question about Jigsaw Wordoku.
Will the word (or letters to be used) given? Or players have to be find it as part of solving.
In the example it is clear since U is repeated in one column.

@ 2011-03-19 11:14 PM (#3788 - in reply to #3740) (#3788) Top

Ours brun

Posts: 148

Country : France

Ours brun posted @ 2011-03-19 11:14 PM

This is a good question.

Deb, I send you an e-mail about it in a few minutes.

Bastien

@ 2011-03-22 8:51 PM (#3809 - in reply to #3740) (#3809) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-03-22 8:51 PM

We are making an experiment - this test starts 6 hours earlier than regular LMI tests.
The scheduled end time is same as regular LMI tests timings.

Please check the exact timings in the submission page

@ 2011-03-22 10:15 PM (#3810 - in reply to #3787) (#3810) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-22 10:15 PM

debmohanty - 2011-03-19 9:42 PM

After reading the translation at sudokufans forum, I'm suddenly having a question about Jigsaw Wordoku.
Will the word (or letters to be used) given? Or players have to be find it as part of solving.
In the example it is clear since U is repeated in one column.

We finally take the decision to write the word (whose letters are used in the grid) in the instructions of the puzzle. So if you want to save a few seconds, read the instructions of that puzzle before solving !

Fred

@ 2011-03-25 8:57 AM (#3825 - in reply to #3740) (#3825) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-03-25 8:57 AM

Password protected booklet uploaded. It has 12 pages, each page has one Sudoku. [ There is no cover page ]

As mentioned earlier, the test starts 6 hours earlier than regular LMI test start time.

@ 2011-03-25 9:48 PM (#3826 - in reply to #3825) (#3826) Top

Nikola

Posts: 103

Country : Serbia

Nikola posted @ 2011-03-25 9:48 PM

Yes, Fred, it is a challenge, but I think I succeeded!

I tried everything and it's really impossible to catch the last cell (R1C1) with the decreasing ray.

I expect a lot of suns and flowers this weekend.

Nikola

@ 2011-03-26 12:15 AM (#3827 - in reply to #3826) (#3827) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-26 12:15 AM

Nikola - 2011-03-25 9:48 PM

Yes, Fred, it is a challenge, but I think I succeeded!

I tried everything and it's really impossible to catch the last cell (R1C1) with the decreasing ray.

I expect a lot of suns and flowers this weekend.

Nikola

Nice, Nikola ! Good Idea to shorten a Ray to achieve this. I think it's the only way, but I'm not mathematician, so I do not want to do a strict proof

Good luck for the tournament !

Good luck to all and may the best win!

Fred

What is your opinion about the new 'Paper Submission Mode'?

Option	Results
The new "Paper Submission Mode" is very useful and LMI must continue it.	16 Votes - [100%]
The new "Paper Submission Mode" is good, but needs improvement (Please specify in forum)	0 Votes - [0%]
The new "Paper Submission Mode" is not any useful, and should be dropped	0 Votes - [0%]


	@ 2011-03-16 3:18 PM (#3751 - in reply to #3740) (#3751) Top
neerajmehrotra Posts: 329 Country : India	neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-03-16 3:18 PM A very interesting IB. Only request is use of less number of colors so as to avoid confusion while printing on a B&W printer.
	@ 2011-03-16 4:12 PM (#3752 - in reply to #3740) (#3752) Top
Ours brun Posts: 148 Country : France	Ours brun posted @ 2011-03-16 4:12 PM Indeed there is a lot of colors (in order to match with the theme of spring), but it should not affect printing in B&W.
	@ 2011-03-16 6:15 PM (#3753 - in reply to #3752) (#3753) Top
rakesh_rai Posts: 774 Country : India	rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-03-16 6:15 PM Do the colours in "Greater than and killer" mean anything from a sudoku perspective?
	@ 2011-03-16 6:29 PM (#3754 - in reply to #3753) (#3754) Top
Fred76 Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland	Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-16 6:29 PM neerajmehrotra - 2011-03-16 3:18 PM A very interesting IB. Only request is use of less number of colors so as to avoid confusion while printing on a B&W printer. As Ours Brun said, there will be some colors inside grids. It was hard not to be tempted using colors as the theme of test is Spring . However, we prepared grids (especially extra-regions) such that there will not be confusion while printing on a B&W printer. rakesh_rai - 2011-03-16 6:15 PM Do the colours in "Greater than and killer" mean anything from a sudoku perspective? No, nothing. You can solve this grid without worrying colors. Fred
	@ 2011-03-16 6:50 PM (#3755 - in reply to #3754) (#3755) Top
rakesh_rai Posts: 774 Country : India	rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-03-16 6:50 PM In sundoku, there are eight possible ray directions. If a ray is not marked (like in the example), does it imply that the numbers on that line CANNOT be in decreasing order.
	@ 2011-03-16 7:12 PM (#3756 - in reply to #3755) (#3756) Top
Fred76 Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland	Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-16 7:12 PM rakesh_rai - 2011-03-16 6:50 PM In sundoku, there are eight possible ray directions. If a ray is not marked (like in the example), does it imply that the numbers on that line CANNOT be in decreasing order. No, it doesn't mean that ! There are no restrictions on cells where there isn't any ray, no matter if one could imagine a ray in that direction. (The real fact is that I failed to build a 6*6 grid with an 8 rays' sun - if someone achieve this, I would be happy to see ) Fred
	@ 2011-03-16 7:40 PM (#3757 - in reply to #3754) (#3757) Top
Ours brun Posts: 148 Country : France	Ours brun posted @ 2011-03-16 7:40 PM To be crystal clear concerning colors : colors don't have any importance, on any puzzle. They are purely decorative ; we were wishing to make this test a "festive" one, so, as Fred said, it was nearly impossible not to put some colors in... You really need not worrying about that. You'd better worry about the puzzles themselves...!
	@ 2011-03-16 7:43 PM (#3758 - in reply to #3756) (#3758) Top
Fred76 Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland	Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-16 7:43 PM Haha !!! Don't worry, be happy !
	@ 2011-03-16 7:54 PM (#3759 - in reply to #3757) (#3759) Top
purifire Posts: 460 Country : India	purifire posted @ 2011-03-16 7:54 PM Ours brun - 2011-03-16 7:40 PM You really need not worrying about that. You'd better worry about the puzzles themselves...! Please stop scaring me Rishi
	@ 2011-03-16 9:10 PM (#3760 - in reply to #3759) (#3760) Top
neerajmehrotra Posts: 329 Country : India	neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-03-16 9:10 PM happy as always!!! :-) I am not able to understand the double sudoku. I am clear with the rules but not able to get an start in the sample puzzle in the IB. Any volunteers for step by step help.....
	@ 2011-03-16 9:50 PM (#3761 - in reply to #3760) (#3761) Top
Fred76 Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland	Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-16 9:50 PM neerajmehrotra - 2011-03-16 9:10 PM happy as always!!! :-) I am not able to understand the double sudoku. I am clear with the rules but not able to get an start in the sample puzzle in the IB. Any volunteers for step by step help..... Starting point are the 2 R's. There are only 2 ways to addition some 1-6 digits with result 18: 1+2+4+5+6 or 3+4+5+6. the consequence is that the 3 should be on first or last position, and on the opposite you have a pair 12. So you have 3 on R4C6 and R6C5, Then also on R2C4 (just classical placement). Then you can study the "E" columns where 2-3 must touch each other and 1-4 also. I think that give a good start ! Fred
	@ 2011-03-16 9:51 PM (#3762 - in reply to #3760) (#3762) Top
purifire Posts: 460 Country : India	purifire posted @ 2011-03-16 9:51 PM neerajmehrotra - 2011-03-16 9:10 PM happy as always!!! :-) I am not able to understand the double sudoku. I am clear with the rules but not able to get an start in the sample puzzle in the IB. Any volunteers for step by step help..... Neeraj, look at row 4.... the value of R is 18... now in a 6x6 the sum of all numbers is 21.... so number 3 is the uncommon part of the 2 way sum... so we need 3 at one end and the numbers 1&2 at the other and 4,5,6 in between. Since 3 is already there in Col 1...R4C6 is a 3 and R4C12 has pencil marks of 1,2.
	@ 2011-03-16 9:53 PM (#3763 - in reply to #3761) (#3763) Top
purifire Posts: 460 Country : India	purifire posted @ 2011-03-16 9:53 PM Fred76 - 2011-03-16 9:50 PM neerajmehrotra - 2011-03-16 9:10 PM happy as always!!! :-) I am not able to understand the double sudoku. I am clear with the rules but not able to get an start in the sample puzzle in the IB. Any volunteers for step by step help..... Starting point are the 2 R's. There are only 2 ways to addition some 1-6 digits with result 18: 1+2+4+5+6 or 3+4+5+6. the consequence is that the 3 should be on first or last position, and on the opposite you have a pair 12. So you have 3 on R4C6 and R6C5, Then also on R2C4 (just classical placement). Then you can study the "E" columns where 2-3 must touch each other and 1-4 also. I think that give a good start ! Fred I have the images for solution ready but I am getting a server error when trying to upload... Rishi
	@ 2011-03-16 10:46 PM (#3764 - in reply to #3740) (#3764) Top
neerajmehrotra Posts: 329 Country : India	neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-03-16 10:46 PM Thanx Rishi and Fred............. That was excellent......... i cud solve it now....
	@ 2011-03-18 10:52 AM (#3777 - in reply to #3764) (#3777) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-03-18 10:52 AM The online example image (SunDoku) is now marked with Arrows.
	@ 2011-03-18 4:14 PM (#3780 - in reply to #3746) (#3780) Top
Fred76 Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland	Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-18 4:14 PM rakesh_rai - 2011-03-16 10:03 AM Administrator - 2011-03-16 9:50 AM If the same Sudoku is submitted using both modes and only one of them is correct, it will be left to organizers to decide if points are to be awarded. I think no points should be awarded in such cases as, otherwise, this system can be (mis)used to make answer guesses. I think the best decision is to take into account the last submission, whether by one or the other mode. A player can solve on paper, submit, and then realize there is a mistake. Perhaps he choose to solve again with interface, and submit again. Or the reverse situation. Of course, if the first submission is correct and the second one not, it's a pity for the player... So please, don't submit a false code if you had already submit the right one Fred
	@ 2011-03-18 4:29 PM (#3781 - in reply to #3780) (#3781) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-03-18 4:29 PM Fred76 - 2011-03-18 4:14 PM I think the best decision is to take into account the last submission, whether by one or the other mode. A player can solve on paper, submit, and then realize there is a mistake. Perhaps he choose to solve again with interface, and submit again. Or the reverse situation. Of course, if the first submission is correct and the second one not, it's a pity for the player... Fred That seems ideal. We'll stick to this rule (at least for this test, and revisit in the next test if required)
	@ 2011-03-19 9:36 PM (#3786 - in reply to #3781) (#3786) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-03-19 9:36 PM Instructions in Chinese available in SudokuFans forum - http://www.sudokufans.org.cn/forums/index.php?showtopic=247
	@ 2011-03-19 9:42 PM (#3787 - in reply to #3786) (#3787) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2011-03-19 9:42 PM After reading the translation at sudokufans forum, I'm suddenly having a question about Jigsaw Wordoku. Will the word (or letters to be used) given? Or players have to be find it as part of solving. In the example it is clear since U is repeated in one column.
	@ 2011-03-19 11:14 PM (#3788 - in reply to #3740) (#3788) Top
Ours brun Posts: 148 Country : France	Ours brun posted @ 2011-03-19 11:14 PM This is a good question. Deb, I send you an e-mail about it in a few minutes. Bastien
	@ 2011-03-22 8:51 PM (#3809 - in reply to #3740) (#3809) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-03-22 8:51 PM We are making an experiment - this test starts 6 hours earlier than regular LMI tests. The scheduled end time is same as regular LMI tests timings. Please check the exact timings in the submission page
	@ 2011-03-22 10:15 PM (#3810 - in reply to #3787) (#3810) Top
Fred76 Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland	Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-22 10:15 PM debmohanty - 2011-03-19 9:42 PM After reading the translation at sudokufans forum, I'm suddenly having a question about Jigsaw Wordoku. Will the word (or letters to be used) given? Or players have to be find it as part of solving. In the example it is clear since U is repeated in one column. We finally take the decision to write the word (whose letters are used in the grid) in the instructions of the puzzle. So if you want to save a few seconds, read the instructions of that puzzle before solving ! Fred
	@ 2011-03-25 8:57 AM (#3825 - in reply to #3740) (#3825) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-03-25 8:57 AM Password protected booklet uploaded. It has 12 pages, each page has one Sudoku. [ There is no cover page ] As mentioned earlier, the test starts 6 hours earlier than regular LMI test start time.
	@ 2011-03-25 9:48 PM (#3826 - in reply to #3825) (#3826) Top
Nikola Posts: 103 Country : Serbia	Nikola posted @ 2011-03-25 9:48 PM Yes, Fred, it is a challenge, but I think I succeeded! I tried everything and it's really impossible to catch the last cell (R1C1) with the decreasing ray. I expect a lot of suns and flowers this weekend. Nikola
	@ 2011-03-26 12:15 AM (#3827 - in reply to #3826) (#3827) Top
Fred76 Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland	Fred76 posted @ 2011-03-26 12:15 AM Nikola - 2011-03-25 9:48 PM Yes, Fred, it is a challenge, but I think I succeeded! I tried everything and it's really impossible to catch the last cell (R1C1) with the decreasing ray. I expect a lot of suns and flowers this weekend. Nikola Nice, Nikola ! Good Idea to shorten a Ray to achieve this. I think it's the only way, but I'm not mathematician, so I do not want to do a strict proof Good luck for the tournament ! Good luck to all and may the best win! Fred