Thread - Puzzle Jackpot - LMI January'11 Puzzle Test

@ 2010-12-29 7:35 PM (#3091 - in reply to #3083) (#3091) Top

Fred76

Posts: 337

Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2010-12-29 7:35 PM

What's going on if more than 300 people solve a 30 points puzzle?

@ 2010-12-29 7:46 PM (#3092 - in reply to #3091) (#3092) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2010-12-29 7:46 PM

Fred76 - 2010-12-29 7:35 PM

What's going on if more than 300 people solve a 30 points puzzle?

How I wish you were true...
We never had more than 191 players. In fact the puzzle which was correctly solved by most players is Simple Loop (Easy) by 175 players in Decathlon.

Anyway, if more than 300 players solve a 30 points puzzle correctly, we'll probably reduce the jackpot factor for each puzzle or increase the points for each puzzle.
Well, Serkan might have some other interesting approach for this problem!

@ 2010-12-29 7:58 PM (#3095 - in reply to #3092) (#3095) Top

Gotroch

Posts: 83

Country : Czech Republic

Gotroch posted @ 2010-12-29 7:58 PM

debmohanty - 2010-12-29 7:46 PM

Fred76 - 2010-12-29 7:35 PM

What's going on if more than 300 people solve a 30 points puzzle?

Anyway, if more than 300 players solve a 30 points puzzle correctly, we'll probably reduce the jackpot factor for each puzzle or increase the points for each puzzle.

This could destroy my strategy to invite 300 new players to LMI and let them solve only puzzles I do not finish during my try.

@ 2010-12-29 8:02 PM (#3096 - in reply to #3095) (#3096) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2010-12-29 8:02 PM

Gotroch - 2010-12-29 7:58 PM
This could destroy my strategy to invite 300 new players to LMI and let them solve only puzzles I do not finish during my try.

That is indeed a great strategy! I had not thought about it :-)
I wish I hadn't revealed my strategy

@ 2010-12-29 8:10 PM (#3097 - in reply to #3092) (#3097) Top

yureklis

Posts: 183

Country : Turkey

yureklis posted @ 2010-12-29 8:10 PM

debmohanty - 2010-12-29 7:46 PM

Fred76 - 2010-12-29 7:35 PM

What's going on if more than 300 people solve a 30 points puzzle?

:) Yes, my wife asked me same question. But before deciding the jackpot points we looked at some statistics about previous LM contests. So i dont think it is possible. But if it happens as you said, i think we can decide new ratio, like 0.09 for 300 people:)

Serkan

@ 2010-12-29 8:17 PM (#3098 - in reply to #3097) (#3098) Top

rakesh_rai

Posts: 774

Country : India

rakesh_rai posted @ 2010-12-29 8:17 PM

Maybe we can set a minimum for each category...eg 30 pointers cannot go down below 10, 60 pointers cannot go down below 40, and 90 pointers cannot go down below 70.

@ 2010-12-31 7:03 PM (#3105 - in reply to #3080) (#3105) Top

Minfang Lin

Posts: 40

Country : China

Minfang Lin posted @ 2010-12-31 7:03 PM

Chinese translation of IB is available in sudokufans.org.cn forum http://www.sudokufans.org.cn/forums/index.php?showtopic=161

@ 2010-12-31 10:15 PM (#3106 - in reply to #3105) (#3106) Top

vopani

Posts: 739

Country : India

vopani posted @ 2010-12-31 10:15 PM

Concept is amazing. Looking forward to this test...
2011 is starting with another new dimension at LMI! :-)

The scoring system is so exciting! I hope I spend some time on the puzzles too ;-)

@ 2011-01-01 5:52 AM (#3107 - in reply to #3106) (#3107) Top

forcolin

Posts: 172

Country : ITALY

forcolin posted @ 2011-01-01 5:52 AM

a question on Tapa ?: every time there is a question mark this will have to be replaced always bay the same digit or digits can be different? and within the same cell?

@ 2011-01-01 5:58 AM (#3108 - in reply to #3107) (#3108) Top

yureklis

Posts: 183

Country : Turkey

yureklis posted @ 2011-01-01 5:58 AM

forcolin - 2011-01-01 5:52 AM

a question on Tapa ?: every time there is a question mark this will have to be replaced always bay the same digit or digits can be different? and within the same cell?

There is no rule about digits identity or difference. So question marks in one cell can represent different digits, or same digits.

Happy new year

@ 2011-01-02 5:50 AM (#3110 - in reply to #3108) (#3110) Top

forcolin

Posts: 172

Country : ITALY

forcolin posted @ 2011-01-02 5:50 AM

Thank you Serkan
all the best to you and your wife too
and to all the logic masters India crew.

@ 2011-01-04 1:18 AM (#3116 - in reply to #3080) (#3116) Top

Ours brun

Posts: 148

Country : France

Ours brun posted @ 2011-01-04 1:18 AM

Interesting concept, I hope I will be able to participate. There are lots of puzzles I haven't tried yet, so it would probably be a good learning experience.

@ 2011-01-06 4:19 PM (#3121 - in reply to #3116) (#3121) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-01-06 4:19 PM

Note about - Grace Period

The test is for 120 minutes. Additionally there will be a grace period of 5 minutes. So players can submit upto a total of 125 minutes.
Note that penalty per minute during grace period submission is 8 points.

Penalty Points = Max(0, (Last puzzle timestamp - 120 minutes) * 8)

@ 2011-01-07 4:06 PM (#3123 - in reply to #3080) (#3123) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-01-07 4:06 PM

Password protected booklet is uploaded.
The booklet has 16 pages

Each page has 1 or 2 puzzles, along with the Instructions, Answer Key, Initial Points and Estimated Time.

@ 2011-01-08 8:06 PM (#3125 - in reply to #3080) (#3125) Top

TroyS

Posts: 6

Country : United States

TroyS posted @ 2011-01-08 8:06 PM

Is the penalty charge based on last submit or last correct submit? I tried to enter B4 answer but copied it wrong - on answer B I entered the last 4 of solution from the row with the snake head :( Therefore lost the points and also paid the penalty. Any consideration on the answer/penalty would be welcome. On afterthought should not have attempted as points possible were not worth the penalty. Should have watched the clock better.

@ 2011-01-08 10:57 PM (#3126 - in reply to #3125) (#3126) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-01-08 10:57 PM

TroyS - 2011-01-08 8:06 PM

Is the penalty charge based on last submit or last correct submit? I tried to enter B4 answer but copied it wrong - on answer B I entered the last 4 of solution from the row with the snake head :( Therefore lost the points and also paid the penalty. Any consideration on the answer/penalty would be welcome. On afterthought should not have attempted as points possible were not worth the penalty. Should have watched the clock better.

This is first time in monthly tests we are having grace period. After a discussion with Serkan, we decided to compute penalty based on last submitted puzzle ( as posted in couple of posts back).
We might have to revise this formula for future tests based on players' feedback.

@ 2011-01-09 7:54 AM (#3127 - in reply to #3126) (#3127) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-01-09 7:54 AM

Point Claims -
Serkan has been manually checking all incorrect answers for possible overrides. If anyone thinks they should get points for any particular puzzle, they should post here OR send Serkan a PM.

@ 2011-01-09 8:18 AM (#3128 - in reply to #3127) (#3128) Top

vopani

Posts: 739

Country : India

vopani posted @ 2011-01-09 8:18 AM

Very nice puzzles Serkan. It is going to be interesting to see the scores after the test.
I enjoyed the Tapa variants. They were really beautiful!

More comments after the test.

@ 2011-01-09 6:10 PM (#3130 - in reply to #3123) (#3130) Top

reesylou

Posts: 10

Country : Australia

reesylou posted @ 2011-01-09 6:10 PM

Oh, I didn't realise there was a penalty for posting during the grace period, or that you could submit answers multiple times. This was my first puzzle comp and I worked on everything up to the last minutes and then entered all answers at the same time.

If I had known, I would have entered each puzzle as I finished it and saved a bit of paper and brain shuffling.

@ 2011-01-09 6:10 PM (#3131 - in reply to #3128) (#3131) Top

Nikola

Posts: 103

Country : Serbia

Nikola posted @ 2011-01-09 6:10 PM

Great puzzles. Thanks, Serkan! I especially liked group C.

Nikola

@ 2011-01-09 7:32 PM (#3132 - in reply to #3080) (#3132) Top

Ours brun

Posts: 148

Country : France

Ours brun posted @ 2011-01-09 7:32 PM

Very poor performance for me, but not really surprising as I had hardly read the instruction booklet before the test and there were almost only types of puzzles I had never solved before. Anyway, the puzzles I could solve were great and I will attempt to do the others in the coming week. But, just as Rohan said,

More comments after the test.

@ 2011-01-09 10:14 PM (#3133 - in reply to #3080) (#3133) Top

drsteve

Posts: 12

Country : United Kingdom

drsteve posted @ 2011-01-09 10:14 PM

Lovely set of puzzles, some of them very cleverly constructed.

I don't suppose you'd take pity on an idiot who entered the column first followed by the row in the Gapless Kakuro?

Thanks for these puzzles - great fun.

@ 2011-01-09 10:34 PM (#3134 - in reply to #3133) (#3134) Top

yureklis

Posts: 183

Country : Turkey

yureklis posted @ 2011-01-09 10:34 PM

drsteve - 2011-01-09 10:14 PM

Lovely set of puzzles, some of them very cleverly constructed.

I don't suppose you'd take pity on an idiot who entered the column first followed by the row in the Gapless Kakuro?

Thanks for these puzzles - great fun.

We give points all competitors who replace A- B or B-A, so you got points.

Thank you for participation.

Best

@ 2011-01-10 12:13 AM (#3135 - in reply to #3134) (#3135) Top

DreamRose311

Posts: 24

Country : United States

DreamRose311 posted @ 2011-01-10 12:13 AM

Great competition as always! Lots of fun. Wish I hadn't written in the wrong line on one of the skyscrapers! wrote 4th instead of 5th line on Sum Skyscrapers... *sad face* Looking forward to the next one as always!!

@ 2011-01-10 2:25 AM (#3136 - in reply to #3080) (#3136) Top

motris

Posts: 199

Country : United States

motris posted @ 2011-01-10 2:25 AM

Incredible test Serkan! I loved the balance of types (something I also shot for with my LMI, but with less Word puzzles than here). I'll second Nikola's comment that group C was a real standout, but I had a lot of fun with some of the others too. The jackpot didn't affect my result too much it seems, but the relative speed of printers might have made the difference....


	@ 2010-12-29 7:35 PM (#3091 - in reply to #3083) (#3091) Top
Fred76 Posts: 337 Country : Switzerland	Fred76 posted @ 2010-12-29 7:35 PM What's going on if more than 300 people solve a 30 points puzzle?
	@ 2010-12-29 7:46 PM (#3092 - in reply to #3091) (#3092) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2010-12-29 7:46 PM Fred76 - 2010-12-29 7:35 PM What's going on if more than 300 people solve a 30 points puzzle? How I wish you were true... We never had more than 191 players. In fact the puzzle which was correctly solved by most players is Simple Loop (Easy) by 175 players in Decathlon. Anyway, if more than 300 players solve a 30 points puzzle correctly, we'll probably reduce the jackpot factor for each puzzle or increase the points for each puzzle. Well, Serkan might have some other interesting approach for this problem!
	@ 2010-12-29 7:58 PM (#3095 - in reply to #3092) (#3095) Top
Gotroch Posts: 83 Country : Czech Republic	Gotroch posted @ 2010-12-29 7:58 PM debmohanty - 2010-12-29 7:46 PM Fred76 - 2010-12-29 7:35 PM What's going on if more than 300 people solve a 30 points puzzle? Anyway, if more than 300 players solve a 30 points puzzle correctly, we'll probably reduce the jackpot factor for each puzzle or increase the points for each puzzle. This could destroy my strategy to invite 300 new players to LMI and let them solve only puzzles I do not finish during my try.
	@ 2010-12-29 8:02 PM (#3096 - in reply to #3095) (#3096) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2010-12-29 8:02 PM Gotroch - 2010-12-29 7:58 PM This could destroy my strategy to invite 300 new players to LMI and let them solve only puzzles I do not finish during my try. That is indeed a great strategy! I had not thought about it :-) I wish I hadn't revealed my strategy
	@ 2010-12-29 8:10 PM (#3097 - in reply to #3092) (#3097) Top
yureklis Posts: 183 Country : Turkey	yureklis posted @ 2010-12-29 8:10 PM debmohanty - 2010-12-29 7:46 PM Fred76 - 2010-12-29 7:35 PM What's going on if more than 300 people solve a 30 points puzzle? :) Yes, my wife asked me same question. But before deciding the jackpot points we looked at some statistics about previous LM contests. So i dont think it is possible. But if it happens as you said, i think we can decide new ratio, like 0.09 for 300 people:) Serkan
	@ 2010-12-29 8:17 PM (#3098 - in reply to #3097) (#3098) Top
rakesh_rai Posts: 774 Country : India	rakesh_rai posted @ 2010-12-29 8:17 PM Maybe we can set a minimum for each category...eg 30 pointers cannot go down below 10, 60 pointers cannot go down below 40, and 90 pointers cannot go down below 70.
	@ 2010-12-31 7:03 PM (#3105 - in reply to #3080) (#3105) Top
Minfang Lin Posts: 40 Country : China	Minfang Lin posted @ 2010-12-31 7:03 PM Chinese translation of IB is available in sudokufans.org.cn forum http://www.sudokufans.org.cn/forums/index.php?showtopic=161
	@ 2010-12-31 10:15 PM (#3106 - in reply to #3105) (#3106) Top
vopani Posts: 739 Country : India	vopani posted @ 2010-12-31 10:15 PM Concept is amazing. Looking forward to this test... 2011 is starting with another new dimension at LMI! :-) The scoring system is so exciting! I hope I spend some time on the puzzles too ;-)
	@ 2011-01-01 5:52 AM (#3107 - in reply to #3106) (#3107) Top
forcolin Posts: 172 Country : ITALY	forcolin posted @ 2011-01-01 5:52 AM a question on Tapa ?: every time there is a question mark this will have to be replaced always bay the same digit or digits can be different? and within the same cell?
	@ 2011-01-01 5:58 AM (#3108 - in reply to #3107) (#3108) Top
yureklis Posts: 183 Country : Turkey	yureklis posted @ 2011-01-01 5:58 AM forcolin - 2011-01-01 5:52 AM a question on Tapa ?: every time there is a question mark this will have to be replaced always bay the same digit or digits can be different? and within the same cell? There is no rule about digits identity or difference. So question marks in one cell can represent different digits, or same digits. Happy new year
	@ 2011-01-02 5:50 AM (#3110 - in reply to #3108) (#3110) Top
forcolin Posts: 172 Country : ITALY	forcolin posted @ 2011-01-02 5:50 AM Thank you Serkan all the best to you and your wife too and to all the logic masters India crew.
	@ 2011-01-04 1:18 AM (#3116 - in reply to #3080) (#3116) Top
Ours brun Posts: 148 Country : France	Ours brun posted @ 2011-01-04 1:18 AM Interesting concept, I hope I will be able to participate. There are lots of puzzles I haven't tried yet, so it would probably be a good learning experience.
	@ 2011-01-06 4:19 PM (#3121 - in reply to #3116) (#3121) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-01-06 4:19 PM Note about - Grace Period The test is for 120 minutes. Additionally there will be a grace period of 5 minutes. So players can submit upto a total of 125 minutes. Note that penalty per minute during grace period submission is 8 points. *Penalty Points = Max(0, (Last puzzle timestamp - 120 minutes) 8)**
	@ 2011-01-07 4:06 PM (#3123 - in reply to #3080) (#3123) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-01-07 4:06 PM Password protected booklet is uploaded. The booklet has 16 pages Each page has 1 or 2 puzzles, along with the Instructions, Answer Key, Initial Points and Estimated Time.
	@ 2011-01-08 8:06 PM (#3125 - in reply to #3080) (#3125) Top
TroyS Posts: 6 Country : United States	TroyS posted @ 2011-01-08 8:06 PM Is the penalty charge based on last submit or last correct submit? I tried to enter B4 answer but copied it wrong - on answer B I entered the last 4 of solution from the row with the snake head :( Therefore lost the points and also paid the penalty. Any consideration on the answer/penalty would be welcome. On afterthought should not have attempted as points possible were not worth the penalty. Should have watched the clock better.
	@ 2011-01-08 10:57 PM (#3126 - in reply to #3125) (#3126) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2011-01-08 10:57 PM TroyS - 2011-01-08 8:06 PM Is the penalty charge based on last submit or last correct submit? I tried to enter B4 answer but copied it wrong - on answer B I entered the last 4 of solution from the row with the snake head :( Therefore lost the points and also paid the penalty. Any consideration on the answer/penalty would be welcome. On afterthought should not have attempted as points possible were not worth the penalty. Should have watched the clock better. This is first time in monthly tests we are having grace period. After a discussion with Serkan, we decided to compute penalty based on last submitted puzzle ( as posted in couple of posts back). We might have to revise this formula for future tests based on players' feedback.
	@ 2011-01-09 7:54 AM (#3127 - in reply to #3126) (#3127) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-01-09 7:54 AM Point Claims - Serkan has been manually checking all incorrect answers for possible overrides. If anyone thinks they should get points for any particular puzzle, they should post here OR send Serkan a PM.
	@ 2011-01-09 8:18 AM (#3128 - in reply to #3127) (#3128) Top
vopani Posts: 739 Country : India	vopani posted @ 2011-01-09 8:18 AM Very nice puzzles Serkan. It is going to be interesting to see the scores after the test. I enjoyed the Tapa variants. They were really beautiful! More comments after the test.
	@ 2011-01-09 6:10 PM (#3130 - in reply to #3123) (#3130) Top
reesylou Posts: 10 Country : Australia	reesylou posted @ 2011-01-09 6:10 PM Oh, I didn't realise there was a penalty for posting during the grace period, or that you could submit answers multiple times. This was my first puzzle comp and I worked on everything up to the last minutes and then entered all answers at the same time. If I had known, I would have entered each puzzle as I finished it and saved a bit of paper and brain shuffling.
	@ 2011-01-09 6:10 PM (#3131 - in reply to #3128) (#3131) Top
Nikola Posts: 103 Country : Serbia	Nikola posted @ 2011-01-09 6:10 PM Great puzzles. Thanks, Serkan! I especially liked group C. Nikola
	@ 2011-01-09 7:32 PM (#3132 - in reply to #3080) (#3132) Top
Ours brun Posts: 148 Country : France	Ours brun posted @ 2011-01-09 7:32 PM Very poor performance for me, but not really surprising as I had hardly read the instruction booklet before the test and there were almost only types of puzzles I had never solved before. Anyway, the puzzles I could solve were great and I will attempt to do the others in the coming week. But, just as Rohan said, More comments after the test.
	@ 2011-01-09 10:14 PM (#3133 - in reply to #3080) (#3133) Top
drsteve Posts: 12 Country : United Kingdom	drsteve posted @ 2011-01-09 10:14 PM Lovely set of puzzles, some of them very cleverly constructed. I don't suppose you'd take pity on an idiot who entered the column first followed by the row in the Gapless Kakuro? Thanks for these puzzles - great fun.
	@ 2011-01-09 10:34 PM (#3134 - in reply to #3133) (#3134) Top
yureklis Posts: 183 Country : Turkey	yureklis posted @ 2011-01-09 10:34 PM drsteve - 2011-01-09 10:14 PM Lovely set of puzzles, some of them very cleverly constructed. I don't suppose you'd take pity on an idiot who entered the column first followed by the row in the Gapless Kakuro? Thanks for these puzzles - great fun. We give points all competitors who replace A- B or B-A, so you got points. Thank you for participation. Best
	@ 2011-01-10 12:13 AM (#3135 - in reply to #3134) (#3135) Top
DreamRose311 Posts: 24 Country : United States	DreamRose311 posted @ 2011-01-10 12:13 AM Great competition as always! Lots of fun. Wish I hadn't written in the wrong line on one of the skyscrapers! wrote 4th instead of 5th line on Sum Skyscrapers... sad face Looking forward to the next one as always!!
	@ 2011-01-10 2:25 AM (#3136 - in reply to #3080) (#3136) Top
motris Posts: 199 Country : United States	motris posted @ 2011-01-10 2:25 AM Incredible test Serkan! I loved the balance of types (something I also shot for with my LMI, but with less Word puzzles than here). I'll second Nikola's comment that group C was a real standout, but I had a lot of fun with some of the others too. The jackpot didn't affect my result too much it seems, but the relative speed of printers might have made the difference....