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WPF Sudoku Grand Prix — Serbian Round — 20th - 22nd April 2013149 posts • Page 1 of 6 • 1 2 3 4 5 6
@ 2013-04-04 11:28 AM (#10518 - in reply to #10489) (#10518) Top

wicktroll



Posts: 16

Country : Hungary

wicktroll posted @ 2013-04-04 11:28 AM

Hi everyone,

I have a question about puzzle 16 Movable digits. The puzzle rule says (I'm sure I misunderstand it...):

"However, for any number placed into the grid, at least one of its (at most) four edge adjacent neighbour cells must contain same number in the solved puzzle as the cell itself has in original grid."

Could you please tell me why there's a 1 in R3C1 in the solution grid? I tried to understand this rule in 2 ways, but
1. None of the neighbours of R3C1 is 1 in the original grid.
2. None of the neighbours of R3C1 contain the same digit in the solution grid as in the original grid.
@ 2013-04-04 11:44 AM (#10519 - in reply to #10518) (#10519) Top

Para



Posts: 315
100100100
Country : The Netherlands

Para posted @ 2013-04-04 11:44 AM

wicktroll - 2013-04-04 11:28 AM

Hi everyone,

I have a question about puzzle 16 Movable digits. The puzzle rule says (I'm sure I misunderstand it...):

"However, for any number placed into the grid, at least one of its (at most) four edge adjacent neighbour cells must contain same number in the solved puzzle as the cell itself has in original grid."

Could you please tell me why there's a 1 in R3C1 in the solution grid? I tried to understand this rule in 2 ways, but
1. None of the neighbours of R3C1 is 1 in the original grid.
2. None of the neighbours of R3C1 contain the same digit in the solution grid as in the original grid.


The rule doesn't apply reversely. The rule only states that one of the neighbours of a GIVEN digit, must contain that digit. This doesn't mean that every cell must be one of its given neighbours as equal digits can transfer to the same cell. For example look at R5C5. The clues in R4C5, R5C4, R5C6 and R6C5 all move to this cell.
@ 2013-04-04 12:18 PM (#10520 - in reply to #10489) (#10520) Top

tojejedno



Posts: 4

Country : Czech Republic

tojejedno posted @ 2013-04-04 12:18 PM

I tried to solve the IB (not only to read the instructions). When solving the puzzles number 4, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14 I realized that I am not able to read my digits and pencil marks (all written by pencil), because the grey colour is too dark. Would it be possible to use a little bit lighter grey in the PB, please?
@ 2013-04-04 2:14 PM (#10523 - in reply to #10520) (#10523) Top

skywalker



Posts: 42
2020
Country : Serbia

skywalker posted @ 2013-04-04 2:14 PM

We'll prepare version 2 of IB with lighter grey to check is it better and after that define grey for PB.

Branko
@ 2013-04-04 11:12 PM (#10528 - in reply to #10519) (#10528) Top

wicktroll



Posts: 16

Country : Hungary

wicktroll posted @ 2013-04-04 11:12 PM

Thanks, it's clear now.
@ 2013-04-05 1:17 AM (#10530 - in reply to #10523) (#10530) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2013-04-05 1:17 AM

skywalker - 2013-04-04 2:14 PM

We'll prepare version 2 of IB with lighter grey to check is it better and after that define grey for PB.
Updated version of IB uploaded, with gray cells being 25% gray. (Images for 13 Placement and 14 Thermo are not fixed, but they will use 25% gray in the puzzle booklet).

Hope it is better.
@ 2013-04-06 1:50 PM (#10555 - in reply to #10530) (#10555) Top

tojejedno



Posts: 4

Country : Czech Republic

tojejedno posted @ 2013-04-06 1:50 PM

Administrator - 2013-04-05 1:17 AM

skywalker - 2013-04-04 2:14 PM

We'll prepare version 2 of IB with lighter grey to check is it better and after that define grey for PB.
Updated version of IB uploaded, with gray cells being 25% gray. (Images for 13 Placement and 14 Thermo are not fixed, but they will use 25% gray in the puzzle booklet).

Hope it is better.


Thanks a lot, it is much better.
@ 2013-04-11 10:52 AM (#10594 - in reply to #10489) (#10594) Top

TiiT



Posts: 139
10020
Country : Estonia

TiiT posted @ 2013-04-11 10:52 AM

About word search:
1.The rule says that Find all given words. Do I really have to find all the words or do I need to solve the sudoku? Or you just want to say that it's not solvable if you don't find all the words?
2. What do you mean about Find all given words (only words with capital letters) in the words list? Do I have to find all the words or do I have to find only the words with capital letters. The rule speaks against itself.

TiiT
@ 2013-04-11 2:38 PM (#10596 - in reply to #10594) (#10596) Top

Ours brun




Posts: 148
1002020
Country : France

Ours brun posted @ 2013-04-11 2:38 PM

1. I guess we have to read it as "words can be found in the grid and you'd better search them if you want to solve the sudoku", indeed.
2. I may be wrong but I suppose there will be something like a text accompanying the competition puzzle, with only some words in capital letters.
@ 2013-04-11 4:18 PM (#10598 - in reply to #10594) (#10598) Top

skywalker



Posts: 42
2020
Country : Serbia

skywalker posted @ 2013-04-11 4:18 PM

TiiT - 2013-04-11 10:52 AM

About word search:
1.The rule says that Find all given words. Do I really have to find all the words or do I need to solve the sudoku? Or you just want to say that it's not solvable if you don't find all the words?
2. What do you mean about Find all given words (only words with capital letters) in the words list? Do I have to find all the words or do I have to find only the words with capital letters. The rule speaks against itself.

TiiT


All words written by capital letters (there will be additional words in competition puzzle, that you can completely ignore during solve) are placed somewhere in solved sudoku. You don't need to mark words in solved grid. It is enough to solve sudoku according to this additional rules.

For example: BUENOS Aires, New YORK. Only BUENOS and YORK must be in solved sudoku.

Branko
@ 2013-04-11 7:29 PM (#10600 - in reply to #10489) (#10600) Top

Karel Tesar



Posts: 28
20
Country : Czech Republic

Karel Tesar posted @ 2013-04-11 7:29 PM

I hope you'll appreciate a little bit of practice on the next WPF round.

We are preparing for you these sudoku variants:
15.04.2013 - Quadruple (practice on WPF Sudoku Grand Prix — Serbian Round)
16.04.2013 - Arrow Sudoku (practice on WPF Sudoku Grand Prix — Serbian Round)
17.04.2013 - Tennis Sudoku (practice on WPF Sudoku Grand Prix — Serbian Round)
18.04.2013 - Little Killer (practice on WPF Sudoku Grand Prix — Serbian Round)
19.04.2013 - Thermo-sudoku (practice on WPF Sudoku Grand Prix — Serbian Round)
20.04.2013 - Renban Groups (practice on WPF Sudoku Grand Prix — Serbian Round)
21.04.2013 - Jigsaw Sudoku (practice on WPF Sudoku Grand Prix — Serbian Round)

More you can find on http://sudokucup.com/node/1901
@ 2013-04-12 9:33 PM (#10609 - in reply to #10598) (#10609) Top

TiiT



Posts: 139
10020
Country : Estonia

TiiT posted @ 2013-04-12 9:33 PM

About New YORK, actually the capital letters are NYORK, do I need to find N_ _ YORK somewhere, or NYORK somewhere (how do I need to take blanks). Or what if there is like SeRbIa, how do I have to act then? I just don't have it clear and I would like to avoid unpleasant surprises.

TiiT
@ 2013-04-13 12:19 AM (#10612 - in reply to #10489) (#10612) Top

dp_94



Posts: 25
20
Country : India

dp_94 posted @ 2013-04-13 12:19 AM

word search -> words may be found in any of eight directions can someone clears it
@ 2013-04-13 1:06 AM (#10613 - in reply to #10612) (#10613) Top

greenhorn



Posts: 164
100202020
Country : Slovakia

greenhorn posted @ 2013-04-13 1:06 AM

dp_94 - 2013-04-13 12:19 AM

word search -> words may be found in any of eight directions can someone clears it


Yes, all 8 directions are allowed.
@ 2013-04-13 1:32 AM (#10614 - in reply to #10609) (#10614) Top

skywalker



Posts: 42
2020
Country : Serbia

skywalker posted @ 2013-04-13 1:32 AM

TiiT - 2013-04-12 9:33 PM

About New YORK, actually the capital letters are NYORK, do I need to find N_ _ YORK somewhere, or NYORK somewhere (how do I need to take blanks). Or what if there is like SeRbIa, how do I have to act then? I just don't have it clear and I would like to avoid unpleasant surprises.

TiiT


Tiit, sorry if I confused you. There will be no surprises in competition puzzle. Words completely written using CAPITAL letters must be found somewhere in solved grid.
For New YORK, you need to place YORK somewhere in grid.

Branko
@ 2013-04-13 2:53 AM (#10615 - in reply to #10612) (#10615) Top

skywalker



Posts: 42
2020
Country : Serbia

skywalker posted @ 2013-04-13 2:53 AM

dp_94 - 2013-04-13 12:19 AM

word search -> words may be found in any of eight directions can someone clears it


The words may be placed in any direction: horizontally, vertically, diagonally, and forwards and backwards (8 directions in total).

Branko
@ 2013-04-16 8:59 PM (#10649 - in reply to #10615) (#10649) Top

Fred76




Posts: 337
10010010020
Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2013-04-16 8:59 PM

In the IB, rules of sudokus: "placement (shape) sudoku", "thermo-sudoku", "killer sudoku" and "movable digits" contain words "bolded region" instead of "bolded 3x3 box".

Will they all be irregular or is it just a little lack of precision of rules (examples have 3x3 boxes, except movable digits)?

Can we know exactly which sudokus will have irregular regions (example of movable digits has irregular regions, but the actual puzzle in WSC 2011 had 3x3 boxes)?

Thanks,
Fred

@ 2013-04-17 12:46 AM (#10651 - in reply to #10649) (#10651) Top

skywalker



Posts: 42
2020
Country : Serbia

skywalker posted @ 2013-04-17 12:46 AM

Fred76 - 2013-04-16 8:59 PM

In the IB, rules of sudokus: "placement (shape) sudoku", "thermo-sudoku", "killer sudoku" and "movable digits" contain words "bolded region" instead of "bolded 3x3 box".

Will they all be irregular or is it just a little lack of precision of rules (examples have 3x3 boxes, except movable digits)?

Can we know exactly which sudokus will have irregular regions (example of movable digits has irregular regions, but the actual puzzle in WSC 2011 had 3x3 boxes)?

Thanks,
Fred



Movable digits has irregular regions, all other sudokus are with 3x3 boxes.

P.S. In all three sudokus (placement, thermo, killer) will be some non-box shapes for sure...

Branko
@ 2013-04-17 1:05 AM (#10652 - in reply to #10651) (#10652) Top

Fred76




Posts: 337
10010010020
Country : Switzerland

Fred76 posted @ 2013-04-17 1:05 AM

Thanks !
@ 2013-04-17 12:11 PM (#10654 - in reply to #10489) (#10654) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2013-04-17 12:11 PM

All sudokus in this contest can be solved online as well. Selected examples are available for online solving for practice purpose.
@ 2013-04-17 8:22 PM (#10655 - in reply to #10519) (#10655) Top

robertolee



Posts: 1

Country : Taiwan

robertolee posted @ 2013-04-17 8:22 PM

Sorry, I don't still understand the 16th question. Original, I have the same idea with Wicktroll. But after Para's reply, I was confused. Could anyone explain how you solve this puzzle at first 3 or 5 steps? thanks.

About Para's reply, he said "The rule only states that one of the neighbors of a GIVEN digit, must contain that digit." what is the GIVEN digit? thanks.
@ 2013-04-17 11:18 PM (#10657 - in reply to #10655) (#10657) Top

skywalker



Posts: 42
2020
Country : Serbia

skywalker posted @ 2013-04-17 11:18 PM

robertolee - 2013-04-17 8:22 PM

Sorry, I don't still understand the 16th question. Original, I have the same idea with Wicktroll. But after Para's reply, I was confused. Could anyone explain how you solve this puzzle at first 3 or 5 steps? thanks.

About Para's reply, he said "The rule only states that one of the neighbors of a GIVEN digit, must contain that digit." what is the GIVEN digit? thanks.


For example: 6 is GIVEN digit (left grid) on R6C1. This digit 6 in solved grid must be on R5C1 or R6C2 and for sure this 6 doesn't leave region (bottom left).
GIVEN 6 on R5C1 must move on some of next cells: R5C2, R6C1, R4C1. First digit 6 is on R5C1 or R6C2, so that leaves only R4C1 as position for second 6.
After that you can conclude that first 6 is on R6C2.

You can try to continue using similar logic...

Branko
@ 2013-04-18 12:48 PM (#10661 - in reply to #10489) (#10661) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2013-04-18 12:48 PM

About Movable Digits, in pictures

Any given digit in left grid, must appear at one of the 4 adjacent cells in the right grid.
In the grid below look at the marked cell with "A" in the left grid. It means, "A" must appear at least once in the marked cells in the right grid. (It could appear twice, but at least once).




Now here is the sudoku from the instruction booklet, with the solution next to it. You can see the rule being applied for each of the given digits in the left grid.


@ 2013-04-18 1:34 PM (#10662 - in reply to #10489) (#10662) Top

Mahyar




Posts: 8

Country : Iran

Mahyar posted @ 2013-04-18 1:34 PM

Hello Admin,

Thank you for explaining Movable Digits rule.

Everything is clear....
@ 2013-04-18 10:47 PM (#10665 - in reply to #10661) (#10665) Top

skywalker



Posts: 42
2020
Country : Serbia

skywalker posted @ 2013-04-18 10:47 PM

Thanks, Deb.

Branko

Edited by skywalker 2013-04-18 10:48 PM
WPF Sudoku Grand Prix — Serbian Round — 20th - 22nd April 2013149 posts • Page 1 of 6 • 1 2 3 4 5 6
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