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Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 18th April 2020166 posts • Page 2 of 7 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
@ 2020-04-09 9:11 PM (#27910 - in reply to #27908) (#27910) Top

anurag



Posts: 136
10020
Country : India

anurag posted @ 2020-04-09 9:11 PM

Thanks, for some reason I was thinking consecutive letters should be the same if the numbers in the cells are equal.
@ 2020-04-10 12:27 AM (#27912 - in reply to #27868) (#27912) Top

WA1729




Posts: 65
202020
Country : United States

WA1729 posted @ 2020-04-10 12:27 AM

Puzzle 11: "...it is possible to uniquely restore their contours." Does the assignment of numbers to cards have to be unique, or is it enough to uniquely specify the nine 3x5 borders of the cards?
@ 2020-04-10 7:29 AM (#27913 - in reply to #27868) (#27913) Top

forcolin




Posts: 172
100202020
Country : ITALY

forcolin posted @ 2020-04-10 7:29 AM

In puzzle 10, I am nut sure whether I can consider a solution as valid if it is the only way of respecting the rules and the clues. Can Riad (or any of the organizers) check the solution I have currently filed and tell me if it is valid and unique?

Edited by forcolin 2020-04-10 7:49 AM
@ 2020-04-10 9:55 AM (#27914 - in reply to #27868) (#27914) Top

anurag



Posts: 136
10020
Country : India

anurag posted @ 2020-04-10 9:55 AM

Puzzle 10: Is this a town puzzle with 2x2 white areas not permissible? Or the white strips must be 1XN when evaluating the score? There is no clear demarcation in the description between puzzle rules and score evaluation.
@ 2020-04-10 2:27 PM (#27916 - in reply to #27868) (#27916) Top

Administrator



20001000500202020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2020-04-10 2:27 PM

Updated Puzzle Booklet


An updated version of the Puzzle Booklet is available now.

Changes:
Puzzle 9 : Example fixed
Puzzle 10: Rules updated

@ 2020-04-10 4:56 PM (#27918 - in reply to #27912) (#27918) Top

Riad Khanmagomedov



Posts: 235
10010020
Country : Russia

Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-10 4:56 PM

WA1729 - 2020-04-10 12:27 AM

Puzzle 11: "...it is possible to uniquely restore their contours." Does the assignment of numbers to cards have to be unique, or is it enough to uniquely specify the nine 3x5 borders of the cards?

The reviewer should clearly define the borders of the nine cards and their numerical values.
@ 2020-04-10 6:22 PM (#27920 - in reply to #27913) (#27920) Top

Riad Khanmagomedov



Posts: 235
10010020
Country : Russia

Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-10 6:22 PM

forcolin - 2020-04-10 7:29 AM

In puzzle 10, I am nut sure whether I can consider a solution as valid if it is the only way of respecting the rules and the clues. Can Riad (or any of the organizers) check the solution I have currently filed and tell me if it is valid and unique?

I was sent your solution, it is not valid. Some rectangles that you were supposed to declare dark can be declared completely white. You need to get a solution without 2x2 white fragments. You use this condition as given in advance. This is incorrect.
@ 2020-04-10 11:36 PM (#27922 - in reply to #27868) (#27922) Top

Mihalich



Posts: 26
20
Country : Ukraine

Mihalich posted @ 2020-04-10 11:36 PM

Puzzle 7.
For numbers with cells, the use of rules a) OR b) is true. If there is a cell where the rules are applied a) AND b) is this true or is it wrong?
@ 2020-04-11 12:21 PM (#27923 - in reply to #27868) (#27923) Top

pranavmanu



Posts: 55
2020
Country : India

pranavmanu posted @ 2020-04-11 12:21 PM

In the town puzzle mini example, going by the definition of a street being a stretch of white cells of length 2 and width 1, I can make out 6 streets in the solution for it. But the answer key gives it as 4, so have i understood it wrong?Or is there a mistake in the example's key?
@ 2020-04-11 2:30 PM (#27924 - in reply to #27920) (#27924) Top

anurag



Posts: 136
10020
Country : India

anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 2:30 PM

Someone kindly rephrase that answer, as I cannot understand any of it. I have already submitted a solution and I am pretty sure I understand what is expected. But, this new piece of information makes me believe that I may still be missing something though it is very unlikely. Organizers, either confirm that my solution follows the rules, or please confirm what is mentioned in that last reply by the author.
A slightly larger example grid might clear any doubts ( "You use this condition as given in advance" - he meant 'used' OR 'need to use'). The language seems to be the source of all confusion here. Reviewers have to step up their efforts.

Edited by anurag 2020-04-11 2:34 PM
@ 2020-04-11 2:37 PM (#27925 - in reply to #27923) (#27925) Top

anurag



Posts: 136
10020
Country : India

anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 2:37 PM

Count only those strips that are bounded by edges or rectangles. Example is fine.
@ 2020-04-11 4:14 PM (#27926 - in reply to #27918) (#27926) Top

anurag



Posts: 136
10020
Country : India

anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 4:14 PM

Anderson: Interesting. I wonder how the two things you mentioned are different. In my opinion, when one of the two is met, the other is too, automatically (note that I am not starting to solve this puzzle yet so I am not thinking enough). Perhaps I am missing something.
Secondly, I am not sure if your query (and the authors' reply) were from the answer key standpoint or the solve itself. If you noticed, the example's answer key does not include any 'numerical assignment' whatever that means.
Uniquely restoring could just require that the grid be cut uniquely with no more than one assignment (which equates to card placement, and hence I don't see why the two things are separate) possible.
Lastly, if indeed, as Riad mentions, the competitor (or reviewer as he calls it) has to specify the borders, how are we supposed to do it? There is no such assistance provided with the instructions. And did the reviewers ('reviewers' here means reviewers, not competitors) miss mentioning that in the file?

Edited by anurag 2020-04-11 4:25 PM
@ 2020-04-11 5:03 PM (#27927 - in reply to #27868) (#27927) Top

Puzlifouk



Posts: 67
202020
Country : France

Puzlifouk posted @ 2020-04-11 5:03 PM

Hello everyone, Hello Riad,
I am extremely happy to face this contest again, which is for me the best event of the year!
And yet, because of the confinement, I forgot that it was the period and I missed the start. Why didn't you remind us earlier in a post that the start was coming? I'm really disappointed for that ...
Take care of you all.
@ 2020-04-11 5:12 PM (#27928 - in reply to #27868) (#27928) Top

SP1



Posts: 8

Country : Japan

SP1 posted @ 2020-04-11 5:12 PM

Puzzle 10:
I think the definition of "streets" is ambiguous.
To clarify the definition, I consider a following 7x7 example:
~~~~##~
~##~##~
~##~##~
~~~~~~~
###~##~
###~##~
###~~~~

~ means white cell and # means dark cell.
I guess there are 6 streets in this grid.
detail:
R1C1 -> R1C4
R4C1 -> R4C7
R7C4 -> R7C7
R1C1 -> R4C1
R1C4 -> R7C4
R1C7 -> R7C7

Is this interpretation correct?
@ 2020-04-11 5:28 PM (#27929 - in reply to #27868) (#27929) Top

panista



Posts: 2

Country : Japan

panista posted @ 2020-04-11 5:28 PM

Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?
@ 2020-04-11 5:41 PM (#27930 - in reply to #27929) (#27930) Top

anurag



Posts: 136
10020
Country : India

anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 5:41 PM

panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM

Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?


I had asked the same question in an earlier post. Obviously, this restriction has to be a part of the Town puzzle and not just the answer entry, as otherwise it would make the puzzle trivial. However, the phrase "The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells" confused me as it was incorrectly stated. The reviewers should make some effort to rephrase it to "The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells".
But, it remains to be seen what the organizers confirm.
@ 2020-04-11 5:42 PM (#27931 - in reply to #27922) (#27931) Top

Riad Khanmagomedov



Posts: 235
10010020
Country : Russia

Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 5:42 PM

Mihalich - 2020-04-10 11:36 PM

Puzzle 7.
For numbers with cells, the use of rules a) OR b) is true. If there is a cell where the rules are applied a) AND b) is this true or is it wrong?

If both a) and b) can be applied, you can choose any of them.
@ 2020-04-11 5:44 PM (#27932 - in reply to #27923) (#27932) Top

Riad Khanmagomedov



Posts: 235
10010020
Country : Russia

Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 5:44 PM

pranavmanu - 2020-04-11 12:21 PM

In the town puzzle mini example, going by the definition of a street being a stretch of white cells of length 2 and width 1, I can make out 6 streets in the solution for it. But the answer key gives it as 4, so have i understood it wrong?Or is there a mistake in the example's key?

In the example, there are 4 streets with a length of 4 cells each.
@ 2020-04-11 5:55 PM (#27933 - in reply to #27924) (#27933) Top

Riad Khanmagomedov



Posts: 235
10010020
Country : Russia

Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 5:55 PM

anurag - 2020-04-11 2:30 PM

Someone kindly rephrase that answer, as I cannot understand any of it. I have already submitted a solution and I am pretty sure I understand what is expected. But, this new piece of information makes me believe that I may still be missing something though it is very unlikely. Organizers, either confirm that my solution follows the rules, or please confirm what is mentioned in that last reply by the author.
A slightly larger example grid might clear any doubts ( "You use this condition as given in advance" - he meant 'used' OR 'need to use'). The language seems to be the source of all confusion here. Reviewers have to step up their efforts.

Take a look at an example of the Town puzzle. Let's delete the given digit 2. Stefano assumed that the solution would be with a dark square. But the verifier (Deb or I) can declare the middle of the example white. The digit 2 is necessary for the uniqueness of the solution.
@ 2020-04-11 6:00 PM (#27934 - in reply to #27927) (#27934) Top

Riad Khanmagomedov



Posts: 235
10010020
Country : Russia

Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 6:00 PM

Puzlifouk - 2020-04-11 5:03 PM

Hello everyone, Hello Riad,
I am extremely happy to face this contest again, which is for me the best event of the year!
And yet, because of the confinement, I forgot that it was the period and I missed the start. Why didn't you remind us earlier in a post that the start was coming? I'm really disappointed for that ...
Take care of you all.

Thank you for your kind words!
@ 2020-04-11 6:02 PM (#27935 - in reply to #27928) (#27935) Top

Riad Khanmagomedov



Posts: 235
10010020
Country : Russia

Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 6:02 PM

SP1 - 2020-04-11 5:12 PM

Puzzle 10:
I think the definition of "streets" is ambiguous.
To clarify the definition, I consider a following 7x7 example:
~~~~##~
~##~##~
~##~##~
~~~~~~~
###~##~
###~##~
###~~~~

~ means white cell and # means dark cell.
I guess there are 6 streets in this grid.
detail:
R1C1 -> R1C4
R4C1 -> R4C7
R7C4 -> R7C7
R1C1 -> R4C1
R1C4 -> R7C4
R1C7 -> R7C7

Is this interpretation correct?

Correct!
@ 2020-04-11 6:05 PM (#27936 - in reply to #27929) (#27936) Top

Riad Khanmagomedov



Posts: 235
10010020
Country : Russia

Riad Khanmagomedov posted @ 2020-04-11 6:05 PM

panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM

Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?

Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution.
@ 2020-04-11 6:06 PM (#27937 - in reply to #27933) (#27937) Top

pranavmanu



Posts: 55
2020
Country : India

pranavmanu posted @ 2020-04-11 6:06 PM

Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 5:55 PM

Take a look at an example of the Town puzzle. Let's delete the given digit 2. Stefano assumed that the solution would be with a dark square. But the verifier (Deb or I) can declare the middle of the example white. The digit 2 is necessary for the uniqueness of the solution.




But the rules of the puzzle state no 2*2 area can be completely white, which ensures that middle of the mini example has to be a 2*2 block of shaded cells!!,based on the other 0 clues. They cant be taken as white as that is not even a solution in the first place.I dont see how uniqueness comes into the picture here?? How is the outside clue 2 essential as per the rules?

Also, going by your statement,every row or column that has shaded cells should be clued with an outside digit, or else they will be assumed by you as white?
@ 2020-04-11 6:26 PM (#27938 - in reply to #27868) (#27938) Top

anurag



Posts: 136
10020
Country : India

anurag posted @ 2020-04-11 6:26 PM

Prnav: That's the whole point! If you read my first query regarding this puzzle, it was there to verify the same thing, whether the 2x2 constraint has to be considered during the design (and I am sure it has to be). But now, the author's statement implies NOT. Which is surprising. Apparently nice and easy puzzle, but so much discussion surrounding it.
@ 2020-04-11 6:56 PM (#27939 - in reply to #27868) (#27939) Top

athin




Posts: 11

Country : Indonesia

athin posted @ 2020-04-11 6:56 PM

Puzzle 10:

I'm pretty confident about my understanding of puzzle 10, so I may rephrase the definition of streets as: "if you treat the final board as a crossword, then the street is a single word, so the number of street will be the number of words in this crossword."

And also, I have to agree that without 2 in the example, the solution should be unique as there shouldn't be any 2x2 of white cells. The proposed "alternative solution" fails this constraint.

This is my opinion btw, surely it will be great for the organizers to clarify this.
Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 18th April 2020166 posts • Page 2 of 7 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
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