SM 2024 R3 - Math & Neighbours (5th - 11th Apr) Score Discuss
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forsmarts 15th Anniversary contest (2017) - 16th to 19th Feb 201850 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1 2
@ 2018-02-12 5:50 PM (#24242) (#24242) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-12 5:50 PM






http://logicmastersindia.com/2018/forsmarts/

Contest Duration = 100 minutes


@ 2018-02-14 11:11 AM (#24254 - in reply to #24242) (#24254) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-14 11:11 AM

Instruction Booklet is available now.
@ 2018-02-14 11:52 AM (#24256 - in reply to #24242) (#24256) Top

auroux



Posts: 145
1002020
Country : France

auroux posted @ 2018-02-14 11:52 AM

Looks VERY nice!
(Small note about IB: the example for puzzle #2 (kropki) is missing a couple of dots in column 2..)
Denis
@ 2018-02-14 1:22 PM (#24258 - in reply to #24256) (#24258) Top

forsmarts



Posts: 33
20
Country : Belarus

forsmarts posted @ 2018-02-14 1:22 PM

auroux - 2018-02-14 11:52 AM
(Small note about IB: the example for puzzle #2 (kropki) is missing a couple of dots in column 2..)

My bad, missed those dots :(
Re-checking the competition grids to make sure I've made no more mistakes :)
@ 2018-02-15 12:52 AM (#24264 - in reply to #24258) (#24264) Top

tamz29



Posts: 225
10010020
Country : Thailand

tamz29 posted @ 2018-02-15 12:52 AM

A few questions:

3. Cornerless Snake
Can the missing half of turning cells, be on the inner side instead?

5. Triangular Battleships
"Numbers outside the grid indicate to product of all lengths occupied by the ships in the corresponding rows/columns."
I don't understand this.

10. Unknown Calendar
"Each pair of consecutive numbers should have at least one digit in common and has to be placed
in either same row or same column of the bottom table"
Is this two requirements or just one needed to be satisfied?
In the example, you have 29 and 18 in the same column, can they be consecutive in the puzzle grid?

"For example, 15 can be followed by 11 or 25, but not by 10 (different rows) or 17 (difference is less
than 4)."
But there is no 10 in the table.

11. Unknown Diginet
Can the lines be diagonal?
@ 2018-02-15 3:49 AM (#24265 - in reply to #24242) (#24265) Top

swaroop2011




Posts: 668
500100202020
Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2018-02-15 3:49 AM

I have following questions:
1) What is the duration of the contest? (No time limit?)

2) Cornerless Snake - I don't understand the meaning of "On every turn half the cell is cut away." What is a turn defined here?
For e.g. R3c1 to R2c1 is it defined as turn?
@ 2018-02-15 9:59 AM (#24266 - in reply to #24265) (#24266) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-15 9:59 AM

swaroop2011 - 2018-02-15 3:49 AM

1) What is the duration of the contest? (No time limit?)

100 minutes
@ 2018-02-15 10:04 AM (#24267 - in reply to #24264) (#24267) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-15 10:04 AM

tamz29 - 2018-02-15 12:52 AM

5. Triangular Battleships
"Numbers outside the grid indicate to product of all lengths occupied by the ships in the corresponding rows/columns."
I don't understand this.

"Numbers outside the grid indicate THE product of all lengths occupied by the ships in the corresponding rows/columns."

In the IB example,
- In row 2, the product is (1/2) x (3/2) = (3/4)
- In row 3, it is (1/2) x (1/2) x (1./2) = (1/8)
- In column 5, it is (1/2) x (5/2) = (5/4)
@ 2018-02-15 10:07 AM (#24268 - in reply to #24267) (#24268) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-15 10:07 AM

Contest page


The contest page for submission will be http://logicmastersindia.com/2018/forsmarts/

Puzzle Booklet shall be available before the contest starts.

Contest Duration = 100 minutes

@ 2018-02-15 10:21 AM (#24269 - in reply to #24242) (#24269) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-15 10:21 AM

Past winners of forsmarts anniversary contests:

@ 2018-02-15 2:12 PM (#24271 - in reply to #24264) (#24271) Top

forsmarts



Posts: 33
20
Country : Belarus

forsmarts posted @ 2018-02-15 2:12 PM

tamz29 - 2018-02-15 12:52 AM
3. Cornerless Snake
Can the missing half of turning cells, be on the inner side instead?

Can't see any point in leaving outer half as it'll make the puzzle no different to a usual Snake.
So the answer would be "no".

tamz29 - 2018-02-15 12:52 AM
5. Triangular Battleships
"Numbers outside the grid indicate to product of all lengths occupied by the ships in the corresponding rows/columns."
I don't understand this.

For example, there's two segments occupied by the ships in a row: 1/2 and 3/2 (1+1/2). Then the clue outside would be: 1/2*3/2=3/4.

tamz29 - 2018-02-15 12:52 AM
10. Unknown Calendar
"Each pair of consecutive numbers should have at least one digit in common and has to be placed
in either same row or same column of the bottom table"
Is this two requirements or just one needed to be satisfied?
In the example, you have 29 and 18 in the same column, can they be consecutive in the puzzle grid?
"For example, 15 can be followed by 11 or 25, but not by 10 (different rows) or 17 (difference is less
than 4)."
But there is no 10 in the table.

There might be in an actual puzzle.

tamz29 - 2018-02-15 12:52 AM
11. Unknown Diginet
Can the lines be diagonal?

As long as they connect the numbers, they can go whatever direction you wish.
@ 2018-02-15 3:05 PM (#24272 - in reply to #24265) (#24272) Top

forsmarts



Posts: 33
20
Country : Belarus

forsmarts posted @ 2018-02-15 3:05 PM

swaroop2011 - 2018-02-15 3:49 AM
2) Cornerless Snake - I don't understand the meaning of "On every turn half the cell is cut away." What is a turn defined here?
For e.g. R3c1 to R2c1 is it defined as turn?

The picture shows how the snake looked like before the corners were cut off. I hope now it's clearer.
@ 2018-02-15 3:39 PM (#24273 - in reply to #24271) (#24273) Top

Nikola



Posts: 103
100
Country : Serbia

Nikola posted @ 2018-02-15 3:39 PM

11. Unknown Diginet
Can we use the inserted digits for new crossings?
@ 2018-02-15 4:34 PM (#24274 - in reply to #24242) (#24274) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-15 4:34 PM

Contest Duration


The contest duration will be 100 minutes (not 150 minutes, as mentioned earlier).

@ 2018-02-15 5:15 PM (#24275 - in reply to #24273) (#24275) Top

forsmarts



Posts: 33
20
Country : Belarus

forsmarts posted @ 2018-02-15 5:15 PM

Nikola - 2018-02-15 3:39 PM
11. Unknown Diginet
Can we use the inserted digits for new crossings?

I'm not sure I understand the question.
If you're asking whether the inserted digit can be a start for a new line then the answer is "no". The lines should connect the originally given numbers only.
@ 2018-02-15 6:02 PM (#24277 - in reply to #24275) (#24277) Top

Nikola



Posts: 103
100
Country : Serbia

Nikola posted @ 2018-02-15 6:02 PM

Yes, that is what I thought. Thanks!
@ 2018-02-15 8:54 PM (#24279 - in reply to #24272) (#24279) Top

swaroop2011




Posts: 668
500100202020
Country : India

swaroop2011 posted @ 2018-02-15 8:54 PM

forsmarts - 2018-02-15 3:05 PM

swaroop2011 - 2018-02-15 3:49 AM
2) Cornerless Snake - I don't understand the meaning of "On every turn half the cell is cut away." What is a turn defined here?
For e.g. R3c1 to R2c1 is it defined as turn?

The picture shows how the snake looked like before the corners were cut off. I hope now it's clearer.


Thanks. Got it.
@ 2018-02-15 11:34 PM (#24280 - in reply to #24242) (#24280) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-15 11:34 PM

Puzzle Booklet


The Puzzle Booklet is now available for download.

@ 2018-02-15 11:59 PM (#24281 - in reply to #24280) (#24281) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-15 11:59 PM

The test is active now. The test can be started till 23:59 IST / 18:29 GMT on Monday (19th).

Good luck to all participants!
@ 2018-02-16 2:49 AM (#24282 - in reply to #24242) (#24282) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2018-02-16 2:49 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Incorrect Products
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Many puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2018-02-18 10:36 PM (#24286 - in reply to #24282) (#24286) Top

Administrator



2000100050020
Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-18 10:36 PM

Forum Thread Issue resolved


Over the last two days, some users faced an error when accessing this forum thread for forsmarts contest. The issue is resolved now. All participants can access the thread and post their feedback or comments now.

@ 2018-02-19 3:16 AM (#24287 - in reply to #24242) (#24287) Top

chaotic_iak




Posts: 241
1001002020
Country : Indonesia

chaotic_iak posted @ 2018-02-19 3:16 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Incorrect Products
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


A good mix of puzzles -- with a mix of quality, too. But most puzzles are good. Let's see:

- Non-Integer Kakuro: This is just Missing Digits Kakuro (or something like that). The non-integer part isn't utilized much. And honestly I don't think you can do much with Non-Integer Kakuro that you can't do with Kakuro with nonstandard set.
- Non-Integer Kropki: You can just multiply by 2 to get normal Kropki except white circles have difference 2. But at least this one changes the meaning of the circles, and so is a more interesting application.
- Cornerless Snake: This is actually a very interesting design, even if I ended up intuiting it. Still need to figure out a more logical approach, but this puzzle was good. Answer key was less good though; I'm not sure if H, F, - make the best answers, but I feel like it could have been better.
- Triangular Minesweepers: Both puzzles were incredible, although I think the large one ended up needing a few "I think this must go this way" reasoning near the end. Very good showcase of these puzzles. Answer key was... weird; could have gone with all letters (Mine / Empty, for example), or something that involves orientations of the mines too.
- Triangular Battleships: I also mostly intuited it, but I think it has a nice logical solution. And even though its name is Battleships, its logic has nearly nothing in common with it.
- Incorrect Easy As ABC: Somehow this one doesn't seem quite penetrable and I had to resort to guessing a lot. My first opinion is that this type is kinda brute-forcy, but if someone can show a logical solution...
- Incorrect Products: This one, though, is way fairer. I identified the two conflicting clues right away. These liar puzzles seem to be best if there's a clear set of contradicting clues, which I don't believe I find in Easy As ABC.
- Incorrect Calcudoku: Same as above, although the contradicting clues aren't as clear. But still very reasonable.
- Incorrect Spiral Galaxies: Ehhh, I intuited this through like usual Spiral Galaxies. I'm sure it's possible to do it logically, but most Spiral Galaxies fall through with intuition easier.
- Unknown Calendar: Oops I skipped this. But "sharing a digit" and "in the same row/column" are two different things and the instructions should have exactly stated which one. At the current state, 2 and 10 may or may not be adjacent.
- Unknown Diginet: Okay this is an incredibly weird genre and I'm not sure whether I like it or not. I ended up intuiting it and I'm not sure what logical solution I can possibly obtain from this genre. The answer key is also not something I'm sure I like.
- Unknown Pentomino: This one falls through fairly, and nothing particularly notable.
- Instructionless Alpha: This is a pretty good genre idea, although the logic falls through very easily once you get the tricks. Answer key was a big mess though; should have gone with the same symbols instead of translating to B and F.
- Instructionless Beta: Oops I still can't figure this out.
- Instructionless Gamma: Region borders might have been better clearer, but otherwise this lends itself to easy puzzles. Not certain the answer key was the best (could have gone with the standard "longest/all segments in marked rows/columns").

So, all in all: interesting puzzles, some less-than-perfect applications but mostly good, some less-than-perfect answer keys as well, but I enjoyed the interesting genres.
@ 2018-02-19 3:19 PM (#24289 - in reply to #24242) (#24289) Top

kiwijam



Posts: 182
10020202020
Country : New Zealand

kiwijam posted @ 2018-02-19 3:19 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Instructionless Gamma
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


I was able to answer both Alphas without finishing the puzzle, due to the answer keys pointing to easy rows.
Not sure why rightmost lines were used, leftmost feels more 'normal'.
Alpha Small felt like it had 2 solutions?
Don't like the Beta example.
I solved the first two as integer puzzles, which I think is a nicer presentation.
Gamma, Unknown Pentomino, and Alpha were my favourite new types.
@ 2018-02-19 7:35 PM (#24290 - in reply to #24242) (#24290) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2018-02-19 7:35 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Non-Integer Kropki
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2018-02-19 7:51 PM (#24291 - in reply to #24242) (#24291) Top

ABcDexter



Posts: 47
2020
Country : India

ABcDexter posted @ 2018-02-19 7:51 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Non-Integer Kakuro
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


forsmarts 15th Anniversary contest (2017) - 16th to 19th Feb 201850 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1 2
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