Thread - Answer Submission Format for Sudoku

@ 2011-01-25 10:14 AM (#3280 - in reply to #3275) (#3280) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-01-25 10:14 AM

Rohan Rao - 2011-01-25 9:12 AM

I dont usually solve online (in view of WSC-style of solving on paper), unless they are 6x6 or really easy 9x9 puzzles. Some players (who play online) and at Techfest asked me a question like 'Why cant sudoku submissions be same as puzzle submissions?'. To be truthful, I didn't have any convincing answer.

In online submissions:
1. In a test like 'Prime Exotica', a player can easily skip a marked cell (by mistake), especially during the dying minutes of the test.
2. Due to the images, there 'might' be a problem for those with low internet speed or technically expired computers (I had this problem in early 2010 in mock tests due to a slow connection. I dont know how it is now).
3. Entering a row/column in one line is definitely quicker and easier for offline solvers.
4. For searching a sudoku in random order, it takes a few seconds due to scrolling (which has considerably reduced due to tabs) whereas it would almost certainly be easier with smaller gaps.
5. Why cant you have an optional answer submission system?

P.S. Above points have been asked to me, I'm just putting it forward.

Personally for me, if I were given a choice, I would choose to submit answers in one line (like in puzzles).

Every online system will have some demerits, but here is how you can get around some of the problems you've listed.

>>> 1. In a test like 'Prime Exotica', a player can easily skip a marked cell (by mistake), especially during the dying minutes of the test.
Unique case. We should stick to rows / columns.

>>> 2. Due to the images, there 'might' be a problem for those with low internet speed or technically expired computers (I had this problem in early 2010 in mock tests due to a slow connection. I dont know how it is now).
The idea is that when you click on "Start Test", you immediately get the password. You print the pdf and start solving. In the meantime, images will get loaded, even if you have slow internet connection.
It is does not happen often, but if any image does not get loaded, you can click on "Can't See Sudoku" for that particular grid. No need to refresh whole page.

>>> 4. For searching a sudoku in random order, it takes a few seconds due to scrolling (which has considerably reduced due to tabs) whereas it would almost certainly be easier with smaller gaps.
Valid point.
But not that big a problem. Even online solvers face that problem of scrolling.

>>> 5. Why cant you have an optional answer submission system?
As I mentioned above, if we can get rid of "Show Cells to Fill after X minutes" concept, we can have alternate answer submission system.
Not having the arrow marks on paper will still be a problem for paper solvers.

Lets decide this with feedback from few players.

@ 2011-01-25 11:02 AM (#3282 - in reply to #3280) (#3282) Top

vopani

Posts: 739

Country : India

vopani posted @ 2011-01-25 11:02 AM

I have always encouraged the 'showing of answer cells' as late as possible. Just like you mentioned, it is unique at LMI and I dont suggest to change it.

1 possible solution is to enable an 'Answer Page' for offline solvers after some time. This page will mention the row/column to be entered in one line. The drawback is that the pdf will not have marked arrows, so it is error-prone. But it is still an idea.

@ 2011-01-25 11:18 AM (#3283 - in reply to #3282) (#3283) Top

debmohanty

Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-01-25 11:18 AM

Rohan Rao - 2011-01-25 11:02 AM

I have always encouraged the 'showing of answer cells' as late as possible. Just like you mentioned, it is unique at LMI and I dont suggest to change it.

1 possible solution is to enable an 'Answer Page' for offline solvers after some time. This page will mention the row/column to be entered in one line. The drawback is that the pdf will not have marked arrows, so it is error-prone. But it is still an idea.

That is definitely error prone for paper players. Also, it significantly increases the chance of 'organizers' doing mistakes.

One of my earliest thoughts (after reading this post - http://motris.livejournal.com/120480.html) :
Everything remains as is.
Add two text boxes below each grid.
Paper players can enter the solution in the text boxes.
Does that help? It still does not solve the problem 2 and 4 you mentioned.

Again - just one possible idea. Other ideas most welcome.

@ 2011-01-27 8:13 PM (#3328 - in reply to #3283) (#3328) Top

neerajmehrotra

Posts: 329

Country : India

neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-01-27 8:13 PM

debmohanty - 2011-01-25 11:18 AM

One of my earliest thoughts (after reading this post - http://motris.livejournal.com/120480.html) :
Everything remains as is.
Add two text boxes below each grid.
Paper players can enter the solution in the text boxes.
Does that help? It still does not solve the problem 2 and 4 you mentioned.

Again - just one possible idea. Other ideas most welcome.

Yes It helps.............

@ 2011-01-31 9:26 AM (#3346 - in reply to #3328) (#3346) Top

Administrator

Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-01-31 9:26 AM

We are adding a text box per grid in the next Sudoku test.

Here is a screenshot

@ 2011-01-31 9:43 AM (#3348 - in reply to #3346) (#3348) Top

purifire

Posts: 460

Country : India

purifire posted @ 2011-01-31 9:43 AM

Administrator - 2011-01-31 9:26 AM

We are adding a text box per grid in the next Sudoku test.

Here is a screenshot

This is a wonderful addition to help people solving on papers... However, if we find that a person has erronously filled the online grid and the textbox below..then by default the answer in the online grid will be taken as final answer!

@ 2011-01-31 10:18 PM (#3351 - in reply to #3236) (#3351) Top

neerajmehrotra

Posts: 329

Country : India

neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-01-31 10:18 PM

Thanx Deb....this is really wonderful...........

@ 2011-02-01 3:55 PM (#3368 - in reply to #3351) (#3368) Top

vopani

Posts: 739

Country : India

vopani posted @ 2011-02-01 3:55 PM

neerajmehrotra - 2011-01-31 10:18 PM

Thanx Deb....this is really wonderful...........

Thumbs up from my side.

@ 2011-02-03 10:49 AM (#3373 - in reply to #3368) (#3373) Top

Tejal Phatak

Posts: 81

Country : India

Tejal Phatak posted @ 2011-02-03 10:49 AM

Superb!
Will get much easier for people solving on paper... :)

Answer Submission Format for Sudoku
Option	Results
Sudoku grid with marked cells to be entered (like how it is now)	3 Votes - [30%]
A row/column to be typed completely in one line (like puzzle tests)	3 Votes - [30%]
Enable both the above options for users to choose	4 Votes - [40%]
Other ideas (please specify)	0 Votes - [0%]

View Results


	@ 2011-01-25 10:14 AM (#3280 - in reply to #3275) (#3280) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2011-01-25 10:14 AM Rohan Rao - 2011-01-25 9:12 AM I dont usually solve online (in view of WSC-style of solving on paper), unless they are 6x6 or really easy 9x9 puzzles. Some players (who play online) and at Techfest asked me a question like 'Why cant sudoku submissions be same as puzzle submissions?'. To be truthful, I didn't have any convincing answer. In online submissions: 1. In a test like 'Prime Exotica', a player can easily skip a marked cell (by mistake), especially during the dying minutes of the test. 2. Due to the images, there 'might' be a problem for those with low internet speed or technically expired computers (I had this problem in early 2010 in mock tests due to a slow connection. I dont know how it is now). 3. Entering a row/column in one line is definitely quicker and easier for offline solvers. 4. For searching a sudoku in random order, it takes a few seconds due to scrolling (which has considerably reduced due to tabs) whereas it would almost certainly be easier with smaller gaps. 5. Why cant you have an optional answer submission system? P.S. Above points have been asked to me, I'm just putting it forward. Personally for me, if I were given a choice, I would choose to submit answers in one line (like in puzzles). Every online system will have some demerits, but here is how you can get around some of the problems you've listed. >>> 1. In a test like 'Prime Exotica', a player can easily skip a marked cell (by mistake), especially during the dying minutes of the test. Unique case. We should stick to rows / columns. >>> 2. Due to the images, there 'might' be a problem for those with low internet speed or technically expired computers (I had this problem in early 2010 in mock tests due to a slow connection. I dont know how it is now). The idea is that when you click on "Start Test", you immediately get the password. You print the pdf and start solving. In the meantime, images will get loaded, even if you have slow internet connection. It is does not happen often, but if any image does not get loaded, you can click on "Can't See Sudoku" for that particular grid. No need to refresh whole page. >>> 4. For searching a sudoku in random order, it takes a few seconds due to scrolling (which has considerably reduced due to tabs) whereas it would almost certainly be easier with smaller gaps. Valid point. But not that big a problem. Even online solvers face that problem of scrolling. >>> 5. Why cant you have an optional answer submission system? As I mentioned above, if we can get rid of "Show Cells to Fill after X minutes" concept, we can have alternate answer submission system. Not having the arrow marks on paper will still be a problem for paper solvers. Lets decide this with feedback from few players.
	@ 2011-01-25 11:02 AM (#3282 - in reply to #3280) (#3282) Top
vopani Posts: 739 Country : India	vopani posted @ 2011-01-25 11:02 AM I have always encouraged the 'showing of answer cells' as late as possible. Just like you mentioned, it is unique at LMI and I dont suggest to change it. 1 possible solution is to enable an 'Answer Page' for offline solvers after some time. This page will mention the row/column to be entered in one line. The drawback is that the pdf will not have marked arrows, so it is error-prone. But it is still an idea.
	@ 2011-01-25 11:18 AM (#3283 - in reply to #3282) (#3283) Top
debmohanty Country : India	debmohanty posted @ 2011-01-25 11:18 AM Rohan Rao - 2011-01-25 11:02 AM I have always encouraged the 'showing of answer cells' as late as possible. Just like you mentioned, it is unique at LMI and I dont suggest to change it. 1 possible solution is to enable an 'Answer Page' for offline solvers after some time. This page will mention the row/column to be entered in one line. The drawback is that the pdf will not have marked arrows, so it is error-prone. But it is still an idea. That is definitely error prone for paper players. Also, it significantly increases the chance of 'organizers' doing mistakes. One of my earliest thoughts (after reading this post - http://motris.livejournal.com/120480.html) : Everything remains as is. Add two text boxes below each grid. Paper players can enter the solution in the text boxes. Does that help? It still does not solve the problem 2 and 4 you mentioned. Again - just one possible idea. Other ideas most welcome.
	@ 2011-01-27 8:13 PM (#3328 - in reply to #3283) (#3328) Top
neerajmehrotra Posts: 329 Country : India	neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-01-27 8:13 PM debmohanty - 2011-01-25 11:18 AM One of my earliest thoughts (after reading this post - http://motris.livejournal.com/120480.html) : Everything remains as is. Add two text boxes below each grid. Paper players can enter the solution in the text boxes. Does that help? It still does not solve the problem 2 and 4 you mentioned. Again - just one possible idea. Other ideas most welcome. Yes It helps.............
	@ 2011-01-31 9:26 AM (#3346 - in reply to #3328) (#3346) Top
Administrator Country : India	Administrator posted @ 2011-01-31 9:26 AM We are adding a text box per grid in the next Sudoku test. Here is a screenshot
	@ 2011-01-31 9:43 AM (#3348 - in reply to #3346) (#3348) Top
purifire Posts: 460 Country : India	purifire posted @ 2011-01-31 9:43 AM Administrator - 2011-01-31 9:26 AM We are adding a text box per grid in the next Sudoku test. Here is a screenshot This is a wonderful addition to help people solving on papers... However, if we find that a person has erronously filled the online grid and the textbox below..then by default the answer in the online grid will be taken as final answer!
	@ 2011-01-31 10:18 PM (#3351 - in reply to #3236) (#3351) Top
neerajmehrotra Posts: 329 Country : India	neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-01-31 10:18 PM Thanx Deb....this is really wonderful...........
	@ 2011-02-01 3:55 PM (#3368 - in reply to #3351) (#3368) Top
vopani Posts: 739 Country : India	vopani posted @ 2011-02-01 3:55 PM neerajmehrotra - 2011-01-31 10:18 PM Thanx Deb....this is really wonderful........... Thumbs up from my side.
	@ 2011-02-03 10:49 AM (#3373 - in reply to #3368) (#3373) Top
Tejal Phatak Posts: 81 Country : India	Tejal Phatak posted @ 2011-02-03 10:49 AM Superb! Will get much easier for people solving on paper... :)