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Country : India | |
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Puzlifouk
Posts: 67
Country : France | Hello. New question about problem 10. What is the order of priority of the operations? Are the operations performed in the order they are found or do multiplication (X) and division (/) have priority? In other words, do we have 9-6/3=(9-6)/3=1 or 9-6/3=9-(6/3)=7? |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1784
Country : India | The rules say "without parenthesis" which means they are performed in the order they are found. |
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Barbitos
Posts: 6
Country : France | %5BQUOTE%5D8%2E+There+shall+be+no+online+solving+interface+%28like+penpa%29+provided+for+this+test%2E%5B%2FQUOTE%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AAre+we+still+allowed+to+use+penpa+to+copy+the+puzzles+and+solve+them+if+we%27re+more+confortable+with+it%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso%2C+to+what+extent+are+we+allowed+to+use+calculators+and+other+programs%3F+I%27m+guessing+the+line+is+drawn+at+something+like+%22only+what+you+could+do+on+windows%27+calculator+app%22+or+%22no+calculators+allowed+period%22%0D%0A%0D%0AI+couldn%27t+find+any+clear+ruleset+for+this+contest%2C+if+there+are+i+would+like+to+know+where+it+is+%F0%9F%98%8A |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | Puzlifouk - 2023-04-17 11:50 AM
Hello. New question about problem 10. What is the order of priority of the operations? Are the operations performed in the order they are found or do multiplication (X) and division (/) have priority? In other words, do we have 9-6/3=(9-6)/3=1 or 9-6/3=9-(6/3)=7?
9-6/3=7. The priority of operations is standard. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1784
Country : India | prasanna16391 - 2023-04-17 2:36 PM
The rules say "without parenthesis" which means they are performed in the order they are found.
Sorry, guess I was a bit wrong here, please follow what Riad says. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1784
Country : India | %5BQUOTE%5DBarbitos+%2D+2023%2D04%2D17++6%3A11+PM%0D%0A%0D%0AAre+we+still+allowed+to+use+penpa+to+copy+the+puzzles+and+solve+them+if+we%27re+more+confortable+with+it%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso%2C+to+what+extent+are+we+allowed+to+use+calculators+and+other+programs%3F+I%27m+guessing+the+line+is+drawn+at+something+like+%22only+what+you+could+do+on+windows%27+calculator+app%22+or+%22no+calculators+allowed+period%22%0D%0A%0D%0AI+couldn%27t+find+any+clear+ruleset+for+this+contest%2C+if+there+are+i+would+like+to+know+where+it+is+%F0%9F%98%8A%5B%2FQUOTE%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ARedrawing+on+Penpa+is+fine%2E+There+is+no+rule+against+using+calculators+and+other+programs%2C+but+the+contest+was+intended+to+be+done+without+them%2E+I+suppose+your+line+is+a+good+line+to+draw%2E+ |
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auroux
Posts: 145
Country : France | auroux posted @ 2023-04-17 8:54 PM On puzzle 10, does a circular equality loop "all around" with equal signs separating equal terms (in particular there must be at least two = signs), or do we get to "break the circle" where we want (not necessarily at an equality sign, and not necessarily in the same place in both directions) to form equalities that can be read clockwise or counterclockwise?
Concretely, if for some digits A,B,C,D,E one had the identities A_PLUS_BC=DEF and ED=CB_PLUS_AF, where the latter can be formed by writing the former around a circle, cutting in a different place, and reading in the other direction, would this be a valid solution ? Or is the only legal way to write the identity A_PLUS_BC=DEF to actually write "A_PLUS_BC=DEF=" around the circle (with an extra equal sign) and both expressions must be formed by cutting the circle at an "=" sign ?
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auroux
Posts: 145
Country : France | auroux posted @ 2023-04-17 8:59 PM After more thinking, I assume the correct interpretation is that we can break the circle anywhere we want (not necessarily at an = sign, and not necessarily in the same place in both directions), and that the example I gave would be a valid solution. Otherwise, it would have been easier to state the problem as producing an equality which is valid when read forwards and backwards (no need to use a circle). |
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jeff10
Posts: 1
Country : United States | jeff10 posted @ 2023-04-17 9:26 PM For the Bubbles Puzzle (Puzzle 2), do bubbles have to circle completely around an NxN (N=1,2,3) square of cells, or can a bubble of "size 3" only circle 3 of the leftmost cells while the center of the bubble is outside the grid? |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | auroux - 2023-04-17 8:54 PM
On puzzle 10, does a circular equality loop "all around" with equal signs separating equal terms (in particular there must be at least two = signs), or do we get to "break the circle" where we want (not necessarily at an equality sign, and not necessarily in the same place in both directions) to form equalities that can be read clockwise or counterclockwise?
Concretely, if for some digits A,B,C,D,E one had the identities A_PLUS_BC=DEF and ED=CB_PLUS_AF, where the latter can be formed by writing the former around a circle, cutting in a different place, and reading in the other direction, would this be a valid solution ? Or is the only legal way to write the identity A_PLUS_BC=DEF to actually write "A_PLUS_BC=DEF=" around the circle (with an extra equal sign) and both expressions must be formed by cutting the circle at an "=" sign ?
You can't break the expression wherever you want. If you write down your expressions many times in a row (or read in a circle an infinite number of times ), then you should get the right equality. In the example , you can write 68=45_PLUS_23=68=45_PLUS_23=68= etc. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | auroux - 2023-04-17 8:59 PM
After more thinking, I assume the correct interpretation is that we can break the circle anywhere we want (not necessarily at an = sign, and not necessarily in the same place in both directions), and that the example I gave would be a valid solution. Otherwise, it would have been easier to state the problem as producing an equality which is valid when read forwards and backwards (no need to use a circle).
The circle is used in the construction of letter palindromes, which are read an infinite number of times clockwise and counterclockwise, but sometimes giving different phrases. In Russia, such constructions are called cyclodromes. |
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auroux
Posts: 145
Country : France | auroux posted @ 2023-04-18 12:21 AM Riad Khanmagomedov - 2023-04-17 11:06 AMYou can't break the expression wherever you want. If you write down your expressions many times in a row (or read in a circle an infinite number of times), then you should get the right equality. In the example , you can write 68=45_PLUS_23=68=45_PLUS_23=68= etc.
Ok, thanks. But, uh, wait. Now I am concerned. Is there, then, a requirement to have at least two equal signs?
Otherwise, something like '98765*43210=' around the circle produces a valid equality when reading around the circle infinitely many times: 98765*43210=98765*43210=98765*43210=...
But this seems to violate the spirit of the puzzle, or at least there isn't much optimization left to do in this version.
And for completeness, can you clarify what exactly you expect in the answer key? The example given for the answer format only has one = sign given for each direction, even though there are two reading around the circle, so do we answer by giving what you get by cutting the circle open at an '=' sign and reading everything from just after that '=' sign to just before it, but not including the '=' sign along which we cut?
Sorry to be picky about details, but I think people spending time on this puzzle want to make sure that they are working on the correct version of it...
Thanks,Denis |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1784
Country : India | jeff10 - 2023-04-17 9:26 PM
For the Bubbles Puzzle (Puzzle 2), do bubbles have to circle completely around an NxN (N=1,2,3) square of cells, or can a bubble of "size 3" only circle 3 of the leftmost cells while the center of the bubble is outside the grid?
The former. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1784
Country : India | A new puzzle booklet has been uploaded to address some of the issues discussed in the previous page (puzzle 9 wording and puzzle 2 example's key) |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | auroux - 2023-04-18 12:21 AM
Riad Khanmagomedov - 2023-04-17 11:06 AMYou can't break the expression wherever you want. If you write down your expressions many times in a row (or read in a circle an infinite number of times), then you should get the right equality. In the example , you can write 68=45_PLUS_23=68=45_PLUS_23=68= etc.
Ok, thanks. But, uh, wait. Now I am concerned. Is there, then, a requirement to have at least two equal signs?
Otherwise, something like '98765*43210=' around the circle produces a valid equality when reading around the circle infinitely many times: 98765*43210=98765*43210=98765*43210=...
But this seems to violate the spirit of the puzzle, or at least there isn't much optimization left to do in this version.
And for completeness, can you clarify what exactly you expect in the answer key? The example given for the answer format only has one = sign given for each direction, even though there are two reading around the circle, so do we answer by giving what you get by cutting the circle open at an '=' sign and reading everything from just after that '=' sign to just before it, but not including the '=' sign along which we cut?
Sorry to be picky about details, but I think people spending time on this puzzle want to make sure that they are working on the correct version of it...
Thanks,Denis
You must have 2, 3 or more equal signs. You can also get the equality 1 = 3-2 = 5-4 = with three equal signs and write it out endlessly in a circle. But at the same time, in the opposite direction, it must also be true. |
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auroux
Posts: 145
Country : France | auroux posted @ 2023-04-18 11:40 AM Ok thank you! Now it is clear. |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | auroux - 2023-04-18 11:40 AM
Ok thank you! Now it is clear.
It is allowed to use arithmetic signs on both sides of the equal sign. |
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Leonardo024
Posts: 15
Country : The Netherlands | For puzzle 5 (Navigation), the instruction says to form 8 connected areas along the grid lines, however only 6 letters are given. Does this imply that the other two regions do not occur in the 2 columns of the answer format (column 4 and 9)? Since the answer page also asks for digits and/or letters A-F (rather than A-H for 8 areas instead of 6). |
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Administrator
Country : India | If you try the puzzle your question will be answered. |
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Nikola
Posts: 103
Country : Serbia | Nikola posted @ 2023-04-19 3:20 PM Puzzle 10
Can we create equality without directly expressed result? For the example, is 32_PLUS_54=86_PLUS_0= allowed? Maybe this is a bad example because of zero but I hope you understand the question. |
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auroux
Posts: 145
Country : France | auroux posted @ 2023-04-19 3:55 PM Nikola: I think the answer is yes, and this is exactly what Riad meant when he wrote to me that "It is allowed to use arithmetic signs on both sides of the equal sign." What I am not sure about, though, is whether the answer key should include the final "=" (even though it is there when writing around the circle) - my current understanding based on the PB example is that the circular identity "32_PLUS_54=86_PLUS_0=..." is entered as "32_PLUS_54=86_PLUS_0" for the answer key.
Edited by auroux 2023-04-19 3:57 PM
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Nikola
Posts: 103
Country : Serbia | Nikola posted @ 2023-04-19 4:27 PM Okay, but in his example he still got a result 1 (in one direction). Another example: 9x2=6x3= ... I don't want to put =18 because it would give 81 in the opposite direction. Maybe confirmation would be useful.
Edited by Nikola 2023-04-19 4:35 PM
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L00ping007
Posts: 11
Country : France | In puzzle 10, there is a digit missing in the "Answer key" sentence
"68=45_PLUS_23, 32_PLUS_54=8" should be ", 68=45_PLUS_23, 32_PLUS_54=86" ;-) |
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Riad Khanmagomedov
Posts: 234
Country : Russia | Nikola - 2023-04-19 3:20 PM
Puzzle 10
Can we create equality without directly expressed result? For the example, is 32_PLUS_54=86_PLUS_0= allowed? Maybe this is a bad example because of zero but I hope you understand the question.
Yes |
@ 2023-04-17 11:32 AM (#31468 - in reply to #31435) (#31468) Top