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Posts: 5 Country : United States | MarkFox posted @ 2013-03-12 2:22 AM
I like the marathon, independently timed structure a lot! I also like the idea of giving a substantial point value simply for correct submission, with bonus for beating a certain speed threshold. I'd like to see higher threshold (90 min, or 2 hours) with increasing bonus values for increasingly fast times - i.e. bonus for 45 minutes vs 46 minutes would be greater than bonus for 65 vs 66 minutes. I think it would allow for more meaningful rankings among those of us in the kind-of-fast but not superfast levels. (I am not unbiased, here, I finished several puzzles between 60 and 70 minutes...Blast!!) I suppose I think there is a real distinction between finishing in 90 minutes and finishing in 790 minutes. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posts: 29 ![]() Country : United Kingdom | Nilz posted @ 2013-03-12 3:35 AM greenhorn - 2013-03-11 9:08 PM Hi everybody, I want to thanks Deb and his team for preparing such a great contest. I want to appreciate all puzzles by 11 authors, who made really great job while constructing their puzzles. I really enjoyed the solving, even I had many troubles (printer, repeated submitting of answer key with small mistakes, Jehovah´s Witnesses knocking at the door). As I post before, my favourite puzzles were these three: Watches (great puzlle, Serkan!) Nanro (All three mentioned problems appeared within solving this puzzle. However I really love this puzzle type, and I hope we may expect some Nanro contest in few months) and Diagonal Liar Slitherlink (although I had empty grid after 30 minutes with no clue how to start). The hardest puzzles for me were Star Battle, Fifty-Fifty and Skyscrapers. I was not able to find out the logic of these puzzles, but it is just because I am not so versed in these types, so I solved them only by using brute force (guessing, guessing and one more guessing). I am still very ashemed, sorry :( I am quite surprised that Araf is one of the most appreciated puzzles. I had some really good feeling when the puzzle masters (as Tiit, Neil, Hideaki, Jakub, Zoltan and many others) voted for my puzzle. Maybe I am the one who decided (by my vote for Nanro), that Nanro is the most favourite puzzle of this contest (right before Araf). But I do not regret my "defeat" because Nanro is a puzzle genre I enjoy the most since Tapa in 2009! At the end, here is my story of discovering Araf. We firstly noticed Araf (by Serkan) at WPC in Poland. Our team have no clue how to solve such a puzzle. In the bus we saw some Turkish players to solve some Araf puzzles just by one stroke and could not believe it. In the competion nobody of us tried to solve Araf. However we had a great fun with using word Araf in meaningless meanings during the championship (What do you want for breakfast? Araf!). Just after the WPC we made small competition in guessing that puzzles and I won, so I had a feeling to be the Araf master of my country in that moment. Few months later I used small puzzle (5x5) in a regional tournament, where only Matej Uher solved it by logic. In the autumn we think about using Araf at 24HPC, but it was never used in our set (it was too difficult even without Araf), but Serkan published that puzzle in Akil Oyunlari last year. Now is Araf one of my favourite puzzle genres and I am very delighted that you liked my puzzle. Thanks! I'd never solved an Araf before this puzzle was announced. The only place I'd seen them (I now know) was in Akil Oyunlari as an instructionless puzzle... and I couldn't work out the rules! Now that I know the rules, I don't think I'd ever have worked it out, they seem pretty anti-intuitive- to me, it would be more natural if the area was exactly equal to one of the numbers or something like that, rather than somewhere in between, but I guess that would change the logic quite a bit and not be as good. So anyway, once this competition was announced, I learnt the rules and did the example puzzles linked to earlier in this thread, but I didn't really have high hopes, because like I said the rules seemed a bit random (sorry Serkan). However, I thought the actual puzzle was great, and surpassed all my expectations- it had lots of logic I hadn't really appreciated before, and it just seemed to work really well. That's why I voted for it, so thanks for designing it! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posts: 29 ![]() Country : United Kingdom | Nilz posted @ 2013-03-12 3:38 AM MarkFox - 2013-03-11 10:22 PM I suppose I think there is a real distinction between finishing in 90 minutes and finishing in 790 minutes. The trouble is, if you know you can only get bonus points within 60 minutes, lots of people will relax after that time, and take a break or whatever. So the person who solved it in 790 might have spent less time on it than the person who clocked 90. You definitely need a threshold, because people can't spend hours on end solving one puzzle, and I think 60 minutes works well. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posts: 5 Country : United States | MarkFox posted @ 2013-03-12 4:18 AM Fair enough. I went back and looked at the breakdown of the scores, and there were only 8 people tied with a score of 500, out of 305 who submitted any correct solutions. That's not bad. If there were hundreds, or even dozens, of people tied at 500, I'd stand more firmly by my suggestion. On an unrelated note, for the first day or two of the contest, I was only able to "sign out" a single puzzle at a time, but later it became possible to sign out more than one puzzle at the same time. Was this according to plan, or was there a decision during the contest to change it? I have no objection either way, I am just curious. (Though I really liked the concept of having to commit to an answer, for better or worse, before opening the next puzzle.) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : India | Administrator posted @ 2013-03-12 5:16 AM MarkFox - 2013-03-12 4:18 AM There was a constraint that a if you start a puzzle X, you can't start another puzzle Y until you submit X or one hour is over, whichever is earlier. This was to done so that players shouldn't start new puzzles by mistake there by losing bonus. But the problem was that, if you don't reopen/refresh your browser, the system didn't check for the 1 hour period and kept on disabling new puzzle starts. On an unrelated note, for the first day or two of the contest, I was only able to "sign out" a single puzzle at a time, but later it became possible to sign out more than one puzzle at the same time. Was this according to plan, or was there a decision during the contest to change it? I have no objection either way, I am just curious. (Though I really liked the concept of having to commit to an answer, for better or worse, before opening the next puzzle.) I'm pretty sure your observation is related to this. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posts: 1 Country : ITALY | MauFirenze posted @ 2013-03-12 5:19 AM
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Posts: 183 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : Turkey | yureklis posted @ 2013-03-12 6:21 AM Araf is a lovely Japanese puzzle type. But it is hard to construct puzzle, especially providing uniquiness. In Puzzle Marathon, it was one of my favorites. Actually after the test, when I decide the three favorite types I considered two approaches: Which puzzles have lovely solving steps (solver side), which puzzles have cute construction? From solver side, my favorite type is Araf. Matus did a great job. Because as I mentioned, Araf is a hard choice to prepare, so I appreciate Matus's work. But from designer side, there was a given area in the puzzle, so I kept it in mind. But now I think that I could ignore this, because preparing such a big puzzle such good is a huge effort. Sorry for that. Nanro is new for me, I didn't know this type before. This puzzle had lovely solution steps, and final movements in the middle of the grid were great. So, Nanro was satisfying for both sides. Mintonette is also new for me. I had a lot fun when I was solving, and the designer made good job with (0) 1-2-3-4 theme in the puzzle. So, I put it to the same place with Nanro in my scale. Gapped Kakuro... Maybe the puzzle was hard in the PM, but I've made so many Gapped Kakuro so far, so I know that most puzzles of the type appears hard because of the rules/construction. However Amit built cool solution steps in the current one, and the construction was great. At the end, as a solver my favorite type was Araf; as a designer my favorite type was Gapped Kakuro. But Mintonette and Nanro did not only appeal to my solver feelings but also whispered to my designer sense. So I voted Gapped Kakuro, Mintonette and Nanro. Hmmm, I've told these now, but no one asked me: Serkan, what is your criteria about selecting best puzzles? :) I'm just talking. An idea, maybe puzzle can be voted in two sections: Solving - Construction [Edit]: I forgot to thanks, probably I need to sleep. Thank you so much Deb, you and LMI are doing huge things for puzzle community/culture. Of course thanks to all authors for their "huge size" effort. Thank you so much! Edited by yureklis 2013-03-12 6:54 AM | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : India | debmohanty posted @ 2013-03-12 6:37 AM greenhorn's long post about Araf So when Matus mentioned early last year that he wants to make an Araf for Marathon, I asked him for few samples of the puzzle, since I wasn't aware of it. Even after solving the samples, I wasn't sure how it will work in a big grid. But having worked with him multiple times in the past, I was certain that he will make a perfect puzzle for Marathon, and he did. The hardest puzzles for me were Star Battle, Fifty-Fifty and Skyscrapers. I was not able to find out the logic of these puzzles, but it is just because I am not so versed in these types, so I solved them only by using brute force (guessing, guessing and one more guessing). We listed Star Battle at the top of the list because of Star Battle's familiarity and the particular puzzle was not difficult at all (just focus on the 2X2X3X3 boxes). And for Fifty-Fifty, check Zoltan's solving guide which was posted in forum. Couple of puzzles were made easier than their previous version, and I always wanted to upload the original versions. (That got delayed because I am not able to locate the pdf of original Masyu). But here are 3 others. Nanro (After solving the puzzle in the competition, you might not find the original one much difficult. But I thought solving the original one first time could have been challenging. So we decided to add few hints and change couple of regions but the finishing with 8s remained as-is) Mintonette (The regions belonging to 0/1/3 are same. All test solvers and me were finding the 2s region extremely difficult to solve. Considering its unfamiliarity, we thought might make the 4s region bit easy also. Thanks Fred for quickly revamping this one) Fifty Fifty (The original version has fewer shaded triangles. I don't know if it would have made much difference to top solvers' timings, but from average players' point of view, it was good to have more shaded triangles) Attachments ---------------- ![]() ![]() ![]() | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : India | debmohanty posted @ 2013-03-12 7:34 AM Nola - 2013-03-11 4:34 AM Exactly. That precisely is our motivation to restrict bonus to 1 hour.I like the concept of one hour with bonus points and then "infinite" time for finishing later. I do not want to have this longer, even when I could finish some puzzles with only slightly more time. But so I know I have to reserve one hour and then I can do something else again. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posts: 1 Country : United States | bjgeraci posted @ 2013-03-12 8:33 AM
First time player. Enjoyed it. Thanks! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posts: 1 Country : United States | AngelSong20 posted @ 2013-03-12 1:09 PM Enjoyed the puzzles I could solve during the week and glad that you made the rest available for those of us who couldn't devote too much time to solving. (I think one of my times was over 3400 minutes because I went to bed and then to work in between solving attempts!) Are the answer keys available anywhere? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : India | Administrator posted @ 2013-03-12 1:26 PM Here are the answer keys.
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Posts: 8 Country : Iran | Mahyar posted @ 2013-03-12 6:35 PM
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Posts: 44 ![]() ![]() Country : Thailand | MrLiang posted @ 2013-03-12 7:57 PM
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Posts: 30 ![]() Country : Canada | figonometry posted @ 2013-03-12 9:10 PM How is the alternate key for the Slitherlink retrieved? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posts: 315 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-03-12 10:29 PM figonometry - 2013-03-12 9:10 PM How is the alternate key for the Slitherlink retrieved? I figure it's top to bottom instead of left to right. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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An LMI player | An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-12 11:02 PM
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Posts: 16 Country : United Kingdom | BohemianCoast posted @ 2013-03-13 10:23 PM
I didn't have time, this week, to do all of these puzzles -- such a shame. I will finish them off over the next little while. I really enjoyed the ones I did, though I got terribly stuck on skyscrapers in particular. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() Posts: 172 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : ITALY | forcolin posted @ 2013-03-14 2:57 AM It has been a wonderful contest. Better than last year because (1) the puzzles were more balanced and (2) the bonus mechanism was better. This is what I presume because I could not see a calculation of the bonus for each individual puzzle but only the sum. Pity it came in a period in which I was very busy and in many cases I rushed a bit to solve some puzzle when I was a bit tired. In at least 3 cases I could not see the light and wasted a lot of time before getting through. But I am already looking forward to the next marathon. Stefano | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posts: 315 ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-03-14 3:58 AM forcolin - 2013-03-14 2:57 AM It has been a wonderful contest. Better than last year because (1) the puzzles were more balanced and (2) the bonus mechanism was better. This is what I presume because I could not see a calculation of the bonus for each individual puzzle but only the sum. Pity it came in a period in which I was very busy and in many cases I rushed a bit to solve some puzzle when I was a bit tired. In at least 3 cases I could not see the light and wasted a lot of time before getting through. But I am already looking forward to the next marathon. Stefano When you open the score page, there is a banner with submission time. If you select points instead of submission time, you can see the score of each puzzle for each player and so see how much points/bonus you got for each puzzle. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : India | Administrator posted @ 2013-03-14 4:29 AM The rank bonus / time bonus split is not available online score page. It is available in the excel file here. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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An LMI player | An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-17 5:27 AM
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An LMI player | An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-17 3:05 PM
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Country : India | Administrator posted @ 2013-03-18 9:15 AM Feedback page is now disabled. The top 3 voted puzzles are Nanro, Araf, Mintonette. The difference between Minotnette and Star Battle is smaller than that between Nanro and Araf. ![]() We will try to include as many of the favorite puzzles as possible in next year's marathon, just like we did this year. The overall score for Marathon is 2.75 which is much higher than any other test we had after we introduced the new feedback system. Thank you everyone for voting. |