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A or B — LMI October Sudoku Test — 1st and 2nd October47 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1 2
@ 2011-09-21 6:59 AM (#5664) (#5664) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2011-09-21 6:59 AM





@ 2011-09-24 9:13 PM (#5675 - in reply to #5664) (#5675) Top

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Administrator posted @ 2011-09-24 9:13 PM

Logic Masters India announces October 2011 Sudoku Test — Sudoku A or B

Dates : 1st and 2nd October

Length : 120 minutes

IB and Submission Link : http://logicmastersindia.com/M201110S/

Author : Deb Mohanty
@ 2011-09-24 10:18 PM (#5676 - in reply to #5664) (#5676) Top

Ours brun




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Ours brun posted @ 2011-09-24 10:18 PM

This looks wonderful. I can't wait to try the puzzles of the IB... but I will have to, since USSC is about to start. Damn !
@ 2011-09-24 10:23 PM (#5677 - in reply to #5676) (#5677) Top

Fred76




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Fred76 posted @ 2011-09-24 10:23 PM

Ours brun - 2011-09-24 10:18 PM

This looks wonderful. I can't wait to try the puzzles of the IB... but I will have to, since USSC is about to start. Damn !


ditto
@ 2011-09-25 1:19 PM (#5682 - in reply to #5664) (#5682) Top

neerajmehrotra



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neerajmehrotra posted @ 2011-09-25 1:19 PM

looks wonderful and challenging!!!
@ 2011-09-25 2:07 PM (#5683 - in reply to #5664) (#5683) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-25 2:07 PM

There are 12 examples, but around 20 rules. So, there are some 'unused' rules in the IB.
Here are some links which can used for practice. Most of the Sudokus have appeared in LMI tests earlier.
Rohan's blog has examples for many of them as well. If someone wants online solving, check argio-logic.net


Sudoku Type LMI test link Rohan's blog link argio-logic link
Odd Sudoku ISC2011 finals search/label/Odd%20Sudoku
Extra Region Sudoku ISC2011 Qualifier, Fivefold, Spring search/label/Extra%20Region%20Sudoku
Even Sudoku Mock18 IB search/label/Even%20Sudoku
Greater Sudoku Sudoku Hotpot
Sequence Sudoku Mock19 search/label/Sequence%20Sudoku
Palindrome Sudoku ISC2010 search/label/Palindrome%20Sudoku palindromo
Marked Quadro Mastermind Twins
Multiplication Table ISC2011 finals search/label/Multiplication%20Table%20Sudoku
Neighbouring Sudoku neighbours
Touchy Sudoku Mock12, Classic Lookalikes rules-of-touchy-sudoku.html Touchy
Anti-Knight Sudoku Classic Lookalikes search/label/Anti%20Knight%20Sudoku knight
XV Sudoku ISC2011 Qualifier search/label/XV%20Sudoku xv
Kropki Sudoku LOGIDOKU search/label/Kropki%20Sudoku kropkinew
Consecutive Sudoku ISC2011 Qualifier, Spring search/label/Consecutive%20Sudoku consecutivo
Fiver Sudoku Qixi Festival (Give me 5)
Skyscraper Sudoku Sudoku City :-) search/label/Skyscraper%20Sudoku skyscraper
Outside Sudoku ISC2011 Qualifier, Fivefold search/label/Outside%20Sudoku outside
Odd Even View Sudoku ISC2011 Finals evenoddview

@ 2011-09-25 7:41 PM (#5684 - in reply to #5664) (#5684) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-25 7:41 PM

Point changes for XV/Kropki, Consecutive/Fiver - Updated IB uploaded.
@ 2011-09-25 8:17 PM (#5685 - in reply to #5664) (#5685) Top

akash.doulani



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akash.doulani posted @ 2011-09-25 8:17 PM

JUST WANTED TO KNOW WHETHER WE CAN APPLY UNIQUENESS TEST FOR THE PUZZLES. IN THE 3RD EXAMPLE OF EVEN/SMALL NEIGHBOUR I CAME ACROSS SUCH SITUATION IN CELLS R2C1 R2C2 , R4C1 R4C2. I WASNT SURE WHETHER THE UNIQUENESS PRINCIPLE COULD BE APPLIED OR NOT. LATER AFTER SOLVING I FELT THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN APPLIED. PLEASE CLARIFY
@ 2011-09-25 8:56 PM (#5686 - in reply to #5664) (#5686) Top

Ours brun




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Ours brun posted @ 2011-09-25 8:56 PM

The general rule about uniqueness and variants is that you can apply it as long as no cell amongst the ones you are dealing with can be affected by the additional rule(s) of this variant. I can't say more about this particular puzzle but I advise you to be very careful when applying unicity to variants.
@ 2011-09-25 9:20 PM (#5687 - in reply to #5664) (#5687) Top

Ours brun




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Ours brun posted @ 2011-09-25 9:20 PM

Well, I just solved the puzzle but never got in the situation you describe, so I will just examine an hypothetical case. Let's say (all this happening before you determine which is the correct rule) you have R2C1/R2C2=39 and R4C1/R4C2=359. It is tempting to say that either R4C1 or R4C2 contains a 5, but it is a wrong assertion. Indeed, there is one cell (R2C1) which can be affected by the "small neighbours" rule, so you could perfectly have a unique rectangle 39/39/39/39. If it happens that the rule is the one of "small neighbours", then there cannot be a 9 in R2C1 and the unique rectangle is broken.

I hope I made it clear enough, I wrote this a bit in a hurry.
@ 2011-09-25 9:29 PM (#5688 - in reply to #5687) (#5688) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-25 9:29 PM

Thanks Bastien for clarifying. Even I didn't catch the situation Akash is describing.

As-is, it is little dangerous to apply unique rectangle to variants. In this test with 2-rules, it is probably little early if you apply unique rectangle before 'determining' the correct rule.

@Akash, to specifically answer if you can apply uniqueness rule, all I can say is all sudokus are designed to have unique solutions :-)

One side note on examples : the difficulty of examples vary a lot, and has nothing to do with difficulty of actual puzzles
@ 2011-09-25 10:39 PM (#5690 - in reply to #5664) (#5690) Top

euklid



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euklid posted @ 2011-09-25 10:39 PM

With Sum10/Multiple, are all black marks given?
I.e., is it possible in Sum10 that two neighboring numbers sum up to 10 and have no black square between them?
Is it possible for Multiple Sudoku that two neighboring numbers are a multiple of each others but have no black square between them?
@ 2011-09-25 11:44 PM (#5692 - in reply to #5690) (#5692) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-25 11:44 PM

euklid - 2011-09-25 10:39 PM

With Sum10/Multiple, are all black marks given?
I.e., is it possible in Sum10 that two neighboring numbers sum up to 10 and have no black square between them?
Is it possible for Multiple Sudoku that two neighboring numbers are a multiple of each others but have no black square between them?

All black marks are not given. So converse rule does not apply.

Edited by debmohanty 2011-09-25 11:44 PM
@ 2011-09-26 11:09 AM (#5706 - in reply to #5664) (#5706) Top

akash.doulani



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akash.doulani posted @ 2011-09-26 11:09 AM

@deb and bastien. thanks a lot for clarifying my doubts.
@ 2011-09-27 11:47 PM (#5707 - in reply to #5664) (#5707) Top

TiiT



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TiiT posted @ 2011-09-27 11:47 PM

Is there a double solution in Greater/Lesser sudoku in Instruction Booklet? 7's & 8's in Box 6, 8 and 9.
@ 2011-09-28 1:01 AM (#5708 - in reply to #5707) (#5708) Top

caudmont



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caudmont posted @ 2011-09-28 1:01 AM

TiiT - 2011-09-27 11:47 PM

Is there a double solution in Greater/Lesser sudoku in Instruction Booklet? 7's & 8's in Box 6, 8 and 9.


Not for me because of the 7 between L8C3 et L8C4.
@ 2011-09-28 10:55 AM (#5709 - in reply to #5664) (#5709) Top

TiiT



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TiiT posted @ 2011-09-28 10:55 AM

OH ok, now I understand the rules. I think. I got it wrong first. I should always read all the rules more carefully.
@ 2011-09-28 3:34 PM (#5711 - in reply to #5664) (#5711) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-28 3:34 PM

All examples can now be solved online in the submission page ( http://logicmastersindia.com/M201110S/ )
@ 2011-09-28 7:53 PM (#5712 - in reply to #5664) (#5712) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-28 7:53 PM

While testing the sudokus, Rakesh asked me if it is allowed make 2 copies of the booklet. I didn't answer his question, but I think he printed only a single copy.
There is discussion in sudokuvariante forum that one of the strategy could be printing 2 copies, and solving using different rules on separate copies.

The reasons I'm bringing it up here is
1) I want to make sure that everyone knows that this is a strategy that some player might want to follow
2) More importantly, I feel, just like an offline competition where only one set of printout is allowed, one should use only one set of printout for this test.
3) Most importantly, without revealing much about what to expect in actual sudokus, I can say that printing two copies will not help one solving faster.

Edited by debmohanty 2011-09-28 7:54 PM
@ 2011-09-30 11:00 PM (#5715 - in reply to #5664) (#5715) Top

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Administrator posted @ 2011-09-30 11:00 PM

Announcements

1) Bonus points
    Players submitting all 12 correctly will get .9 points per minute
    Players submitting all 12, but 1 incorrect with maximum 3 incorrect digits will get .6 points per minute saved.
    As usual, bonus points will be computed from the time "Claim Bonus" is clicked.
    So, click on "Claim Bonus" as soon as you think you are done.

2) Sudoku Booklet
    Password protected sudoku booklet is uploaded.
    It has 6 pages. Each page has 2 sudokus. There is no cover page / points table.

3) Read the instruction booklet carefully
    There are more rules than a usual sudoku test has. So please read the IB carefully.
    Converse rules doesn't apply to all Sudokus.
    Please ask here in case of doubts

4) Score page
@ 2011-10-01 6:42 AM (#5717 - in reply to #5712) (#5717) Top

Fred76




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Fred76 posted @ 2011-10-01 6:42 AM

debmohanty - 2011-09-28 7:53 PM

While testing the sudokus, Rakesh asked me if it is allowed make 2 copies of the booklet. I didn't answer his question, but I think he printed only a single copy.
There is discussion in sudokuvariante forum that one of the strategy could be printing 2 copies, and solving using different rules on separate copies.

The reasons I'm bringing it up here is
1) I want to make sure that everyone knows that this is a strategy that some player might want to follow
2) More importantly, I feel, just like an offline competition where only one set of printout is allowed, one should use only one set of printout for this test.
3) Most importantly, without revealing much about what to expect in actual sudokus, I can say that printing two copies will not help one solving faster.


I read this on Hideaki Jo's blog first. I'm not sure I understood well, because I'm not a specialist of japanese translation . I thought it was an interesting point, so I report this on my forum. Thanks for clarifying (and for reading sudokuvariante ) !

Fred
@ 2011-10-01 6:46 AM (#5718 - in reply to #5717) (#5718) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-10-01 6:46 AM

Fred76 - 2011-10-01 6:42 AM

I thought it was an interesting point, so I report this on my forum. !

Precisely the same reason I posted in this forum :-) and my French is probably as good as your Japanese

Edited by debmohanty 2011-10-01 6:47 AM
@ 2011-10-01 12:52 PM (#5721 - in reply to #5664) (#5721) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-10-01 12:52 PM

Attention :
If you are solving online, you need not submit again using paper mode. It consumes time and error prone.
@ 2011-10-02 2:39 AM (#5723 - in reply to #5664) (#5723) Top

motris



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motris posted @ 2011-10-02 2:39 AM

Excellent puzzles. Thanks for the fun test!
@ 2011-10-02 12:10 PM (#5724 - in reply to #5675) (#5724) Top

davep



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davep posted @ 2011-10-02 12:10 PM

Deb - Really well done, nice set of puzzles. Enjoyed it! Cheers, Dave
A or B — LMI October Sudoku Test — 1st and 2nd October47 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1 2
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