|
|
motris
Posts: 199
 
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2010-10-17 8:57 PM drsteve - 2010-10-17 5:57 PM
Wasted a lot of time on the hard minesweeper (and got it wrong) and messed up the solution to easy battleships, easy skyscraper (typed in the adjacent column, but solved the puzzle correctly), mutant nurikabe - typed a 1 instead of a 0 at one point. Finished the hard nurikabe with 17 seconds to spare though, so that made up for it a bit...
Wonderful test - loads of fun.
We've given you credit on the skyscrapers as you've entered a valid other column; a few others have made column swap changes too, so where it's clear it was an entry mistake while looking at a finished puzzle we've given points. |
|
tabascq
Posts: 2
Country : United States | tabascq posted @ 2010-10-17 9:10 PM I can't get past the first 'unplanned' puzzle - namely, where should I be looking to see the 'Document Open Password'? Am I just dense, or is my browser not displaying it properly? I understand you can't just print it here, but some kind of direction would be helpful. |
|
tabascq
Posts: 2
Country : United States | tabascq posted @ 2010-10-17 9:15 PM Ahem. It appeared to me that logging in actually constituted a start of the test, and the subsequent Start button didn't look enough like a button to get my attention. Perhaps I should just stay in bed today. :-) |
|
Administrator
  
Country : India | tabascq - 2010-10-17 9:15 PM
Ahem. It appeared to me that logging in actually constituted a start of the test, and the subsequent Start button didn't look enough like a button to get my attention. Perhaps I should just stay in bed today. :-)
I agree that "Start 20/10 Puzzle Decathlon" button is little small, and not that easy to locate.
We'll make it bigger in subsequent tests.
However note that your timer starts only after you click on that button. So, no one really loses time because of this problem. |
|
gramar
Posts: 9
Country : United Kingdom | gramar posted @ 2010-10-18 2:18 AM Just noticed I've been credited with the points for the easy tomtom puzzle following my submission error. Much appreciated!! |
|
zhergan
Posts: 32
Country : Turkey | zhergan posted @ 2010-10-18 3:12 AM Really great set of puzzles  It was very enjoyable 
Most of the puzzles were designed very well and my top three
were the mutants of Battleships, Number Skeleton
and TomTom (with mystery number set, nice idea  ).
 Thomas for nice puzzles and LMI for this organization
Zafer |
|
detuned
Posts: 152
Country : United Kingdom | detuned posted @ 2010-10-18 3:23 AM motris - 2010-10-17 3:57 PM
drsteve - 2010-10-17 5:57 PM
Wasted a lot of time on the hard minesweeper (and got it wrong) and messed up the solution to easy battleships, easy skyscraper (typed in the adjacent column, but solved the puzzle correctly), mutant nurikabe - typed a 1 instead of a 0 at one point. Finished the hard nurikabe with 17 seconds to spare though, so that made up for it a bit...
Wonderful test - loads of fun.
We've given you credit on the skyscrapers as you've entered a valid other column; a few others have made column swap changes too, so where it's clear it was an entry mistake while looking at a finished puzzle we've given points.
Thomas - I entered the first column rather than the second for the hard nurikabe. Also on the hard minesweeper, I made a rather silly transposition of digits typing in too quickly. The digits are adjacent - which I think is strong evidence in favour of a typing (as opposed to puzzling ) error.
I only mention this as the difference between having these two puzzles marked as right will do wonders (+25% ) for my score : ) |
|
detuned
Posts: 152
Country : United Kingdom | detuned posted @ 2010-10-18 3:25 AM I should also mention good job on the puzzles. Nice design on the easy masyu :) |
|
motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2010-10-18 3:56 AM detuned - 2010-10-18 3:23 AM
Thomas - I entered the first column rather than the second for the hard nurikabe. Also on the hard minesweeper, I made a rather silly transposition of digits typing in too quickly. The digits are adjacent - which I think is strong evidence in favour of a typing (as opposed to puzzling) error.
I only mention this as the difference between having these two puzzles marked as right will do wonders (+25%) for my score :)
Having read the thread on the UK forum saying "hey, we all entered wrong columns", I'm surprised you did too. All four got points back though, so you'll get the Nurikabe points.
No go on minesweeper regrading though. It is easy to imagine an incorrect solution with a mine moved by one spot, so I cannot reward an answer there as wrong answers are a lot like right answers on minesweeper. |
|
detuned
Posts: 152
Country : United Kingdom | detuned posted @ 2010-10-18 4:11 AM Ah yeah - I can see exactly what you mean re that "tweak" (naturally I maintain my innocence nevertheless). The pain is in losing so much bonus - especially when I realise I forgot to put in the hard battleships. I don't think there should be too much surprise in my general error-proneness though! |
|
Gotroch
Posts: 83
Country : Czech Republic | Gotroch posted @ 2010-10-18 5:52 AM Very nice puzzles
My answer of Mutant Minesweeper puzzle is missing digit for last row (there was no tetromino part in last row and that's why I probably forgot to submit it )
First nine rows in my solution looks correct, is it possible to get points for that puzzle?
|
|
motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2010-10-18 5:56 AM Results for the 20/10 Puzzle Decathlon are now available. Three solvers completed all the puzzles correctly and congratulations go to Hideaki Jo, Ulrich Voigt, and Florian Kirch for earning gold/silver/bronze in this test. I expect to see many of the same top solvers doing well next week at the 19th WPC in Poland.
Thanks to all for participating, and thanks especially to Deb and Logic Masters India for assistance in hosting this puzzle test. |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | Thomas, thanks for taking time out to write this test. I'm sure it was helpful practice for everyone with WPC around the corner.
Apart from many top players participating, this was the most successful test at LMI in terms of numbers of players. That is hardly surprising though, given who the author was.
189 players (out of 226) got non-zero scores.
Thank you everyone for participating!
|
|
uvo
Posts: 21
Country : Germany | uvo posted @ 2010-10-18 6:26 AM Now the contest is over I want to mention that the bonus system is seriously flawed: It is easily possible to lose points by solving a puzzle, which is certainly not desirable. For example, it took me about 12 minutes to solve the Number Skeleton mutant: If I hadn't solved it, I would have scored about 19x9=171 instead of the actual 7x10=70 bonus points - plenty to compensate for just one unsolved puzzle (-30 points).
There are two characteristics of your bonus system, which combined lead to this side effect:
1) Both the puzzles and the time bonus have a similar points per minute factor (1200 points / 120 minutes and 10 points per minute, if all puzzles are solved).
2) The decrease in bonus for not having all puzzles solved is very low (factor 9 instead of 10).
Together, this means that one puzzle where you are slower than the average 10 points per minute is worth less, possibly much less than the equivalent bonus score.
Unfortunately, 1) the mentioned Number Skeleton was not my last puzzle and 2) I didn't think about the bonus system in advance. But even if I had, I would have tried to solve all puzzles nevertheless and not cared about my score. (In a WPC, that might be different.)
The puzzles however were excellent (not that I expected anything less). Funnily enough, for the German Championship four years ago I designed a Battleships puzzle very similar to the hard one here, with the same 2-7-2 clues to work with. And I guessed correctly that the mutant Nurikabe would have twelve pentomino islands, but that didn't help much :-) |
|
motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2010-10-18 6:42 AM uvo - 2010-10-18 6:26 AM
Now the contest is over I want to mention that the bonus system is seriously flawed: It is easily possible to lose points by solving a puzzle, which is certainly not desirable. For example, it took me about 12 minutes to solve the Number Skeleton mutant: If I hadn't solved it, I would have scored about 19x9=171 instead of the actual 7x10=70 bonus points - plenty to compensate for just one unsolved puzzle (-30 points).
There are two characteristics of your bonus system, which combined lead to this side effect:
1) Both the puzzles and the time bonus have a similar points per minute factor (1200 points / 120 minutes and 10 points per minute, if all puzzles are solved).
2) The decrease in bonus for not having all puzzles solved is very low (factor 9 instead of 10).
Together, this means that one puzzle where you are slower than the average 10 points per minute is worth less, possibly much less than the equivalent bonus score.
Unfortunately, 1) the mentioned Number Skeleton was not my last puzzle and 2) I didn't think about the bonus system in advance. But even if I had, I would have tried to solve all puzzles nevertheless and not cared about my score. (In a WPC, that might be different.)
The puzzles however were excellent (not that I expected anything less). Funnily enough, for the German Championship four years ago I designed a Battleships puzzle very similar to the hard one here, with the same 2-7-2 clues to work with. And I guessed correctly that the mutant Nurikabe would have twelve pentomino islands, but that didn't help much :-)
Yes, I thought of this scenario too late after we made the change to 9 of 10 earning bonus points. In the first pass the final puzzle should have been worth ~80 points, so with 9 versus 10 points per minute, you would have to take over 9 minutes to solve it to lose points. With the friendlier bonus system to not penalize entry mistakes, the end result is a puzzle you lose points on if you solve it in more than 3.2 or so minutes. This is certainly less time than the last puzzle a solver is likely to face.
The simplest answer - on a test like this which was pretty well-timed given the test-solvers - is to ignore time bonus and use raw clock time to break ties. That, or a much steeper drop off of the partial value was certainly needed. The partial time bonus was included to address the possibility someone might finish very early, but with an error, as has happened on past tests but that was not really a factor here. Certainly worth more improvements before the next time. Edited by motris 2010-10-18 6:49 AM
|
|
Aerion
Posts: 4
Country : United States | Aerion posted @ 2010-10-18 7:08 AM Ha, I see mathgrant made the same answer entry mistake as I did on the Easy ABC Connect -- accidentally started reading the wrong column halfway down. I felt dumb for not just writing the letters directly in the grid to prevent such a thing, but I feel less dumb knowing I'm in good company. ;)
Thanks for a great set of puzzles! Between this and a new issue of P&A (all while keeping an eye on the baseball), it's been quite the weekend. |
|
harmeet
Posts: 87
Country : India | harmeet posted @ 2010-10-18 8:20 AM Gr8 set of puzzles Thomas... it was really fun to solve them...
Deb... I think my minesweeper set of puzzles are not scored... can you please check them?  |
|
keshava.hs
Posts: 10
Country : India | Hi,Greetings!!Th puzzle set was awesome!!It covered all range of puzzlers. Thanks again.Please find the attached answer for Battleship-Hard, I could not find my mistake.3 Cheers,Keshav
 |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | harmeet - 2010-10-18 8:20 AM
Deb... I think my minesweeper set of puzzles are not scored... can you please check them? I think they were incorrect. I've your answer sheets, I'll double check. |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | keshava.hs - 2010-10-18 8:21 AM
Hi,Greetings!!Th puzzle set was awesome!!It covered all range of puzzlers. Thanks again.Please find the attached answer for Battleship-Hard, I could not find my mistake.3 Cheers,Keshav Keshav, R5C9 can't be 1x1 submarine. It has to be a part of 3x1 cruiser OR 4x1 battleship. Remember that R5C9 is a square and not a circle. |
|
keshava.hs
Posts: 10
Country : India | Hi Deb,
Thanks a lot for lightning response!
Since i didnot had printer so used paint brush for solving, where i have painted every cell, which has mislead me.
Thanks for resolving my doubt.
Best Regards,
Keshav |
|
rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Thanks for the nice set of puzzles.
For me, the best puzzles were (1) ABC Connect Mutant (2) Skyscrapers Hard and (3) Masyu Mutant.
All hard/mutant puzzles were not of same difficulty (but worth 30 each). So, for those solvers who cannot complete the full set in time, there was some luck/skill in choosing which puzzles to solve. For example, a few mutants - Battleship, Minesweeper, Tents and Tom Tom - were very easy. If only I knew this before the test...Mostly I found that the Hard was tougher than the Mutant.
Some comments on specific puzzles-
ABC Connect Mutant: Tough. But I have now managed to solve this somehow. Liked the way the loops have to be stretched sometimes to make the turns count, especially for 8 and 9.
Number Skeleton Mutant: Tough but solvable logically. Have seen such puzzles on USPC mostly.
Tents Hard: Had to resort to Trial and Error. If someone can show a logical point to start the solve, that would be useful.
Skyscrapers Hard: Very Tough.
Nurikabe Hard: Nice (not difficult). Initially, I thought the 44 was a printing error. But realized that 44 will actually start the puzzle and travel all over the world to finish the puzzle. It looked like a snake puzzle in some ways, where the length is given. |
|
rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | I have a doubt. Didn't we decide earlier that the Last submitted correct answer timestamp would be used as a tiebreaker? But I see same rank given in case of ties. |
|
motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2010-10-18 10:18 AM rakesh_rai - 2010-10-18 9:16 AM
Tents Hard: Had to resort to Trial and Error. If someone can show a logical point to start the solve, that would be useful.
This tents puzzle actually started with no number clues in the first construction, and makes use of "too crowded if a tent goes this way" logic. The final version got some numbers to steer some of the bottom, and also to distract from the "no numbers" approach. Maybe this image will help you get started.
 |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | Very interesting use of too-crowded logic. A quick look at the green tree shows the cell the corresponding tent should be in.
The numbers given in the bottom were definitely distracting, because there were of no use to get the start. |
@ 2010-10-17 8:57 PM (#2238 - in reply to #2234) (#2238) Top