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Country : India | |
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Administrator
Country : India |
Logic Masters India announces September Puzzle Test#2 — 123 GO
Author : Rohan Rao
Dates : 22 nd - 24 th September
IB and Submission Link : here
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kishy72
Posts: 417
Country : India | kishy72 posted @ 2012-09-19 2:20 PM Great to see Indians authoring puzzles.The previous one and now this.Hope that the indian contigent is in top shape for the puzzle and sudoku championships going to be held next month and i wish all the best to them to return trumps from the championship.All the Best guys for a podium finish!!!!!!
@Admin ,will there be updates in LMI regarding how the Indian stars are performing day-to-day in the world championships.I am sure many more would be eager like me to get the updates daily. |
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neerajmehrotra
Posts: 328
Country : India | nice theme.... with more familiar puzzles.....looking forward to it.... |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2012-09-19 10:52 PM |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2012-09-19 11:19 PM Para - 2012-09-19 10:52 PM
Is there any chance the layout of the doors and fillomino puzzles can be changed? I think it would be handier to solve those with dashed line grids
It is dashed in PB (similar to Palmer's link ). Edited by Rohan Rao 2012-09-19 11:19 PM
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ksun48
Posts: 29
Country : Canada | ksun48 posted @ 2012-09-20 3:01 AM I'm not sure I quite understand the rules of Water Fun. In the example puzzle, the bottom T-shaped tetromino and the L shaped-trimino have some of its cells shaded and some of its cells unshaded. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1779
Country : India | ksun48 - 2012-09-20 3:01 AM
I'm not sure I quite understand the rules of Water Fun. In the example puzzle, the bottom T-shaped tetromino and the L shaped-trimino have some of its cells shaded and some of its cells unshaded.
The words "Surface height" are key in the rules. The water can be at the bottom of a region, and not be at the top, but cannot be at the top while not at the bottom. Basic way to understand is, water flows downwards, so while you can have a shape filled from the bottom, you can't fill it from the top as the water will flow down anyway. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | About the Penalty System :
I am not sure if this is the right penalty system. Isn't the whole intention of Instant Grading is to eradicate typos? A typo is a typo and should be penalized same for different puzzles. If a typo in Fence, penalty is .6 points, but for a typo in Number Snake, it is 2 points. So one has to be more careful entering the answer of high value puzzles. I am not sure if we want that side effect in Instant Grading.
Water Fun :
I think part of the problem is the way the image is drawn, and thats why ksun48 was not able to interpret. There are lots puzzle of this type at PuzzlePicnic. Here is the image redrawn in (close-to ) PuzzlePicnic format.  (WaterFun.png)Attachments ----------------  WaterFun.png (7KB - 1 downloads) |
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ksun48
Posts: 29
Country : Canada | ksun48 posted @ 2012-09-20 7:49 AM Oh, thanks! I interepreted it as it was an aerial view, but it's actually a front view. Thanks! |
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MellowMelon
Country : United States | debmohanty - 2012-09-19 6:39 PM
About the Penalty System :
I am not sure if this is the right penalty system. Isn't the whole intention of Instant Grading is to eradicate typos? A typo is a typo and should be penalized same for different puzzles. If a typo in Fence, penalty is .6 points, but for a typo in Number Snake, it is 2 points. So one has to be more careful entering the answer of high value puzzles. I am not sure if we want that side effect in Instant Grading.
True, but that's how it is in the system without instant grading.
I'm sure the merits and demerits will probably get some more discussion after the test, but I will say I am happy to see a penalty system that will actually make checking work worthwhile. |
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neerajmehrotra
Posts: 328
Country : India | one doubt in Kakuro triplet.
Two cells on each side of a black cell will be considered as adjacent????
example 2nd white cell and 3rd white cell (seperated by a black cell having clue) in the IB....are they adjacent??? |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2012-09-20 1:05 PM neerajmehrotra - 2012-09-20 12:57 PM
one doubt in Kakuro triplet.
Two cells on each side of a black cell will be considered as adjacent????
example 2nd white cell and 3rd white cell (seperated by a black cell having clue) in the IB....are they adjacent???
No. |
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neerajmehrotra
Posts: 328
Country : India | thanks... |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-09-20 4:36 PM MAsyu:Are the black pearls gonna be darker than in the IB? |
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kishy72
Posts: 417
Country : India | kishy72 posted @ 2012-09-20 5:06 PM one incorrect submission would reduce the total puzzle points of that particular puzzle by 80% or the total points of all the puzzles by 80%?! |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1779
Country : India | kishy72 - 2012-09-20 5:06 PM
one incorrect submission would reduce the total puzzle points of that particular puzzle by 80% or the total points of all the puzzles by 80%?!
One Incorrect submission, and then a correct submission of that puzzle gives you 80% points of that puzzle. A correct submission after 2 incorrect gives 50%.
Interpret it that way : ) |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-09-20 5:38 PM It can be a typo,or a guess,or a hurried entry with a bad answer format.So, this test uses a better instant grading system. |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2012-09-20 7:25 PM kishy72 - 2012-09-20 5:06 PM
one incorrect submission would reduce the total puzzle points of that particular puzzle by 80% or the total points of all the puzzles by 80%?!
Only that particular puzzle. |
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Administrator
Country : India | A bad answer format will not be penalized.
For example, "entering 3 digits while 4 digits are expected" will not be penalized. The individual submit button will not be enabled if the answer key is not formatted properly. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | 3 things i need to be carefull is : (shared it thinking that it may be helpful to others too)
kakuro triplet - numbers repeat
doors - excluding cell itself
Hitori - shaded cells can be adjacent
2 questions ??
1) can one more sample of arithmetic box utilizing BODMAS Rule be uploaded (if possible)
2) Trimino hunt the triminos can be read from any direction right ??
i mean 223 can be read as 223 from left to right and 322 as if from right to left or 223 from top to bottom and 322 as if from bottom to top?? |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1779
Country : India | swaroop2011 - 2012-09-20 10:32 PM
2) Trimino hunt the triminos can be read from any direction right ??
i mean 223 can be read as 223 from left to right and 322 as if from right to left or 223 from top to bottom and 322 as if from bottom to top??
Yes, they can. In the given Trimino set in the IB, there is no 322 given, as 223 and 322 are considered the same instance (this is usually the case with domino hunt puzzles and it looks to be the same here ). So hunt for the ones given without caring about direction and stuff. Edited by prasanna16391 2012-09-20 10:42 PM
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | ohk consider 233 which is marked as 332 from left to right correct?? |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | One more doubt ??
In water fun all water cells need not be connected from different areas. i.e i mean there is no such rule mentioned so as that all water cells should be connected somehow right?? |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2012-09-21 2:08 PM swaroop2011 - 2012-09-20 10:45 PM
ohk consider 233 which is marked as 332 from left to right correct??
233 is same as 332, irrespective of its direction, irrespective of it being horizontal/vertical.
swaroop2011 - 2012-09-21 1:57 PM
One more doubt ??
In water fun all water cells need not be connected from different areas. i.e i mean there is no such rule mentioned so as that all water cells should be connected somehow right??
The water cells do not 'have to' be connected. They may or may not be connected. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | |
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Administrator
Country : India | Announcements• Password protected pdf is uploaded. It has 10 pages. There is no cover page / points table.
• Note again that Instant Grading is enabled in this test. You will get penalized for each intermediate wrong submission.
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Administrator
Country : India | Restricted ThreadThis is a restricted thread. As you might have seen during other LMI tests :
Comments posted in the thread after the test started can only be viewed by players who have finished the test. If you are not logged in to forum or if you have not finished the test, you will see first few characters of the post.
The purpose is to encourage players to freely post comments while the test is running.
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deu
Posts: 69
Country : Japan | deu posted @ 2012-09-22 7:21 AM Thanks for a really nice 1-2-3 themed set.
I broke 9 puzzles during the test and got completely confused. Probably my worst performance ever.
I hope I won't repeat the same failure in the upcoming WPC and WSC. |
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Administrator
Country : India | The score page is not yet done.
Some quick updates :
deu finished in 63:19 (too long in his opinion), but without mistakes
Melon finished 14 puzzles in 26 minutes (continuing). ETA : Melon finished in 36:52 minutes, with one submission mistake.
I hope to finish the score page soon. |
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MellowMelon
Country : United States | That was quite a sprint. Most of those puzzles fell in 1-2 minute rushes where the pencil almost didn't leave the page. Trimino Hunt, Battleships, and Snake really gave me trouble though. Probably didn't help that I broke each one midway in.
I continue to be 0 for something in correctly solving/entering sudoku puzzles over the last several months. Glad that was the only error, but that's going to hurt the time bonus... |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1779
Country : India | I had a similar experience to deu's, kept breaking puzzles everywhere, and sometimes didn't see that I broke them. Thats gonna cost me quite a few places in this sprint-like test.
The puzzles themselves were nice. I liked Polyominos and Number Snake most, even though I made a stupid error on both of them during the test time. |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2012-09-22 12:43 PM |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | NIce puzzles and really needed sprint
Could have solved 3-4 more easily if not some disturbances and mistakes.
But was happy that submitted Fillomino at last second :p
was stuck in doors, snake, nurikabe, in which i made a mistake and it cost me the points as well as time.
Will have to take care from next time as in sprint test 1 mistake as much more effect than in normal test
Anyways Thanks Rohan for nice test :) |
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gbansal
Posts: 2
Country : India | gbansal posted @ 2012-09-22 4:34 PM Water Tap: What does thick Layer region must have same surface area means in the water tap?
Does it mean that the thick layer region will have water completely or will not have at all ?
If so the example provided doesn't satisfy this rule.
Edited by gbansal 2012-09-22 4:35 PM
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1779
Country : India | gbansal - 2012-09-22 4:34 PM
Water Tap: What does thick Layer region must have same surface area means in the water tap?
Does it mean that the thick layer region will have water completely or will not have at all ?
If so the example provided doesn't satisfy this rule.
Someone asked a similar query above, and you can refer to that. Anyway, The thick layer region, if it has water, will have at the same height. So suppose there is a scare region, you either have all 4 cells filled (surface height 2 units ) or 2 bottom cells filled (surface height 1 unit ) |
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anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-09-22 8:00 PM Fun puzzles.Shame that i couldnt make much out of snake,ships and polyominos,and wasted all the time on them. |
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FoxFireX
Posts: 35
Country : United States | One thing I was surprised by a bit was the penalties on questions that I never managed to figure out at all. I assumed from the earlier posts that if you entered a wrong answer, then a correct one, you'd get partial credit, but entering a wrong answer and never solving it would not incur a penalty by itself. I could have read it wrong, but was a little disappointed.
Very enjoyable puzzles, misunderstanding of penalties aside. :)
Edited to add: And now I see some of those penalties evaporating. Maybe it just needs a little post-processing by the admins.
Edited by FoxFireX 2012-09-23 12:30 AM
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2012-09-23 12:45 AM FoxFireX - 2012-09-23 12:21 AM
Edited to add: And now I see some of those penalties evaporating. Maybe it just needs a little post-processing by the admins.
Yes :- ) We haven't automated that part. It would probably be in place by the next Instant Grading test.
I'm glad you enjoyed the puzzles. |
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ksun48
Posts: 29
Country : Canada | ksun48 posted @ 2012-09-23 7:09 AM I like the test, despite only getting 66. Are penalties going to be incurred for puzzles that were never solved? (e.g. random guessing?) |
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debmohanty
Country : India | ksun48 - 2012-09-23 7:09 AM
I like the test, despite only getting 66. Are penalties going to be incurred for puzzles that were never solved? (e.g. random guessing?) Like Rohan replied in the previous post, "penalty for puzzles that were never solved" have to be removed manually. It is done now for you, and you can refresh score page to check. |
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2012-09-23 5:38 PM I didn't see that the timing was 80 minutes. I was lucky to have the idea to submit after 73 minutes... |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2012-09-23 5:49 PM Fred76 - 2012-09-23 5:38 PM
I didn't see that the timing was 80 minutes. I was lucky to have the idea to submit after 73 minutes...
How long did you want the timing to be?  |
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2012-09-23 5:56 PM Rohan Rao - 2012-09-23 5:49 PM
Fred76 - 2012-09-23 5:38 PM
I didn't see that the timing was 80 minutes. I was lucky to have the idea to submit after 73 minutes...
How long did you want the timing to be?
It's quite well like that.
I just didn't read the IB carefully, and I think it's not written on the forum.
When taking the test, I just thought it was as usual a 120 minutes test. Of course, after solving 13 puzzles in ~73 minutes, I felt that it was a bit strange (generally, on puzzle tests, I'm happy when I'm able to solve half of the puzzles in the given time ).
Fred |
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rajeshk
Posts: 542
Country : India | rajeshk posted @ 2012-09-23 7:12 PM Thanks Rohan for these great puzzles. I liked trick in the Battleship most.
I am returning to LMI tests after a long time. Happy to see a new feature of not showing the comments which were posted after test gets started. Very nice feature. Good going LMI!
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SKnight
Posts: 25
Country : United States | SKnight posted @ 2012-09-24 12:00 AM Quick editing note (though mostly too late, and hopefully relatively harmless):
On the submission page for the Strong Hitori, both entry blanks say "top left to bottom right", but the second one should be "top right to bottom left"
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2012-09-24 12:22 AM SKnight - 2012-09-24 12:00 AM
Quick editing note (though mostly too late, and hopefully relatively harmless):
On the submission page for the Strong Hitori, both entry blanks say "top left to bottom right", but the second one should be "top right to bottom left"
Thanks for pointing it out and an obvious overlook on my part. |
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macherlakumar
Posts: 123
Country : India | Very nice puzzles Rohan.
After completing Arithmetic Box I read the puzzle twice, because there was no 3 used (I thought all numbers need to be used).
What happened with Tapa is my worst ever in LMI tests, because after solving it in 2 minutes the correct solution is right infront of my eyes, but something kept on saying in my head that the shaded cells must complete a loop :( and I kept on solving it for 6 times.
We can call this test as this years Sprint test.
Regards,
Ravi |
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sanket.saxena
Posts: 48
Country : India | There are three puzzle competitions this month but still not a single sudoku competition except Beginner's Sudoku Contest ??? When will next sudoku competition starts ??? |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1779
Country : India | sanket.saxena - 2012-09-24 1:47 PM
There are three puzzle competitions this month but still not a single sudoku competition except Beginner's Sudoku Contest ??? When will next sudoku competition starts ???
The World Championships are starting soon, so the next test will be after that only. |
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auroux
Posts: 145
Country : France | auroux posted @ 2012-09-24 7:14 PM Solving puzzles while watching over a small baby is not the best way to stay focused during a sprint. Never trust that a baby will sleep 80 minutes straight at nap time.
I guess I didn't do too badly considering this, but without baby I probably would have finished... oh well, one never knows. |
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motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2012-09-24 9:26 PM Thanks for the contest; the title suggested a sprint and I really enjoyed the pace. A few hiccups for me - surprisingly on the Battleships which was my favorite puzzle but where after the key insight I didn't explore possible 3-ship space really well, and also on the Number Snake where my mind was telling me "digits don't repeat in columns/rows" around a clue so I couldn't make the 15 work. I must be solving too many puzzles these days as practice. I'm confusing all the rules! |
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Administrator
Country : India | 123 GO is now over. Password removed from booklet. |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2012-09-25 10:56 AM Thanks to everyone for participating and I hope you enjoyed the puzzles. Congrats to Palmer, Florian and Ulrich for the top 3 places.
I'm glad that many players were able to finish the test. I believe Instant Grading was helpful to many players, and any feedback regarding it, or the puzzles or the test, is welcome.
Thanks to Nikola Zivanovic for testing the puzzles.
Good Luck to everyone for the World Championships next week! |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2012-09-26 2:47 AM I was unhappy after I was done as I wasted at least 5 minutes on the fillomino as I hadn't noticed I had made a typo and thus thought I had made a solving error. Overall my result isn't that bad. Had fun overall. |
