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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | Ha ha !! :) Waiting for this one! :) |
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rajeshk
Posts: 542
Country : India | rajeshk posted @ 2013-01-24 3:26 PM Yes, Looking forward to this test. |
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Administrator
Country : India | BDEGHIAKLCFJ |
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Administrator
Country : India | Logic Masters India announces Puzzle Marathon - March Puzzle test
Dates : 1 st — 10 th March
Instructions Booklet and Submission : here
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Administrator
Country : India | Points Structure
The points structure is very similar to last year.
Similarity :
1 ) Fixed points if the puzzle is solved.
2 ) Variable Bonus points if the puzzle is solved within 60 minutes.
Difference
1 ) The bonus point is normalized (so the bonus point has a maximum limit )
2 ) A player's bonus is dependent on his Rank and on his solving time.
The bonus structure is based on LMI puzzle ratings computation (also based on comments in previous year's thread )
Details
=======
There are 3 components if a puzzle is solved correctly.
1 ) Fixed 50 points
2 ) Rank Bonus - The best player for the particular puzzle gets 25 points. Every other player who has solved the puzzle within 60 minutes, gets 25 * (n + 1 - player's rank ) / n where n is total number of players who have solved the puzzle within 60 minutes.
3 ) Solving Time Bonus - The best player for the particular puzzle gets 25 points.
Lets say
best solving time is B.
Median solving time (of all players solving within 60 minutes ) is M.
Z = 25
z = Z / 2
If a player's solving time is <= M, he will get z + z * ( player's solving time - M ) / (B - M ) (A linear distribution between 25 and 12.5 between the best player and the player with median time )
If a player's solving time is > M, he will get z - z * ( player's solving time - M ) / (60 minutes - M ) (A linear distribution between 12.5 and 0 between the player with median time and 60 minutes )
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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zachpuzzle
Posts: 14
Country : United States | Should sample Watches B be 21213? |
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Administrator
Country : India | zachpuzzle - 2013-02-24 8:23 PM
Should sample Watches B be 21213? of course, it should be. Fixed. |
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macherlakumar
Posts: 123
Country : India | HAIBKGLJEFCD |
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sanket.saxena
Posts: 48
Country : India | Is it possible to participate in online mode ??? |
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macherlakumar
Posts: 123
Country : India | sanket.saxena - 2013-02-25 6:33 PMIs it possible to participate in online mode ??? Hi Sanket, No. The Instruction booklet clearly states that for each puzzle a separate PDF will be provided. Regards, Ravi |
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debmohanty
Country : India | About the Bonus and Points Structure :
The bonus structure this time is bit complicated, but it was necessary to make the changes based on the discussion during last year's marathon. While I think most of the important discussion points are covered, it may be possible that I have missed something. Players are requested post if they see a problem with the bonus structure, preferably before the test starts, so that we can modify if needed.
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debmohanty
Country : India | Administrator - 2013-02-24 8:43 AM
BDEGHIAKLCFJ That is the answer key format for the quiz at the last page. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Please note : The solution for Nanro in the IB has a missing 1 at R3C4. (Rule : All regions must contain at least one number).
(Updated IB uploaded at the time of this post) |
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edderiofer
Posts: 8
Country : Hong Kong | For Araf, does "between" mean "strictly between" or "strictly between and including"? |
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greenhorn
Posts: 164
Country : Slovakia | edderiofer - 2013-02-27 7:17 PM
For Araf, does "between" mean "strictly between" or "strictly between and including"?
It is just STRICTLY BETWEEN.
If you have clues 3 a 7 in one region, its size should be 4, 5 or 6.
See here: http://yureklis.wordpress.com/tag/araf/Edited by greenhorn 2013-02-27 9:31 PM
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Administrator
Country : India | Answer Key Updates
Please note the following updates about answer keys
1) Mintonette now has same answer key as Masyu and Maxi Loop - "For each marked column, enter the lengths of the longest vertical path segment."
For the example below, the answer key is : 72121
Also note that there could be gaps in columns. The answer key should consider the full column.
(Not a valid puzzle. Just for answer key illustration.)
2) Gapped Kakuro
Some players mark circles on Gapped Kakuro and the given circles for answer keys may get hidden if you are not careful. So we have decided that we will provide another way of marking the answer-key cells.
The pdf will have the same puzzle twice, in 2 pages. Once with circle and another time with shaded cells. Please use the formats that is convenient to you.
3)Enter Unit digit only
If any row/cell has a double digit answer key, only the unit (right-most digit ) digit should be entered. (This rule is applicable to Masyu, Maxi Loop, Graffiti Snake, Mintonette, Araf ).
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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Administrator
Country : India | Puzzle Marathon has startedPuzzle Marathon has started, with 8 puzzles.
Remaining 4 puzzles will be uploaded soon.
Please note that once you start a puzzle X, you can't start another puzzle Y until you submit X or one hour is over, whichever is earlier. We had same `rule` last year too.
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devarajand
Posts: 114
Country : India | Where are the passwords? |
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Administrator
Country : India | devarajand - 2013-03-01 11:09 AM
Where are the passwords? You will get passwords when you start the puzzle.
Passwords are not posted in public. |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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amitsowani
Posts: 349
Country : India | Can authors see the scores for puzzles which they have created? (without having to put a dummy submission :)) |
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Manu
Posts: 4
Country : Austria | Manu posted @ 2013-03-01 9:17 PM How can I get the password? I dont´ see it anywhere. I want to open the puzzle, but I am asked to write down the password. Where is it? |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | Manu - 2013-03-01 9:17 PM
How can I get the password? I dont´ see it anywhere. I want to open the puzzle, but I am asked to write down the password. Where is it?
Check the submission page, once you click on a puzzle, the puzzle name appears below the table with a start button. Once you start it, the timer starts and the password is displayed. |
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Manu
Posts: 4
Country : Austria | Manu posted @ 2013-03-01 9:57 PM Thank you!! I didn´t see the start button below the table. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Araf and Multi Skyscrapers are uploaded. |
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yureklis
Posts: 183
Country : Turkey | |
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rajeshk
Posts: 542
Country : India | rajeshk posted @ 2013-03-02 12:54 PM I have two doubts regarding "Liar Diagonal Slitherlink" as below
1. Can I assume that all the numbers will be given for this puzzle. If not how liar square will be decided among no hint squares?
2. For the liar Square can the number of edges used be equal to given number if we don't count diagonal connection. e.g for a liar square having 2 can put link like Z i.e. using two edge excluding diagonal?
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | rajeshk - 2013-03-02 12:54 PM
I have two doubts regarding "Liar Diagonal Slitherlink" as below
1. Can I assume that all the numbers will be given for this puzzle. If not how liar square will be decided among no hint squares?
2. For the liar Square can the number of edges used be equal to given number if we don't count diagonal connection. e.g for a liar square having 2 can put link like Z i.e. using two edge excluding diagonal?
1. Just in response to the question part, its possible to determine the liar square. Due to the all rows and columns need to have exactly one liar constraint, even if there's just one clue in a row or column, that clue has to be a liar, or of course there's say just 2 clues and you prove one is right while solving. For example, the Liar Slitherlink in the IPC did not have all clues given, and I guess the striking out the liar part doesn't change the possibility of a Liar being determined.
2. No. The square once determined as a liar, has to be wrong. |
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rajeshk
Posts: 542
Country : India | rajeshk posted @ 2013-03-02 1:42 PM Thanks Prasanna for your quick reply. I was trying to create one puzzle of this type and these doubts came in my mind. Thanks once again for clarifying these doubts.
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bob
Posts: 59
Country : United States | bob posted @ 2013-03-03 3:52 AM So if I take more than an hour I can't submit an answer? For multi-skyscrapers I see a red X. I cannot find errors in my solution.
Thanks,
bob |
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bob
Posts: 59
Country : United States | bob posted @ 2013-03-03 3:59 AM never mind I finally found my error. very difficult to proofread |
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FoxFireX
Posts: 35
Country : United States | So I feel stupid now. Got myself massively stuck on one puzzle, and blew an entire 4.5 hours on an "easy" one. Finally cracked it, but it did raise a question. Is there a way to abandon a solve that you just don't think you'll ever complete? I couldn't find a way to move on and try a different one, so I was stuck using my entire day's time banging my head against a faulty bit of logic. |
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Administrator
Country : India | FoxFireX - 2013-03-03 5:02 AM
So I feel stupid now. Got myself massively stuck on one puzzle, and blew an entire 4.5 hours on an "easy" one. Finally cracked it, but it did raise a question. Is there a way to abandon a solve that you just don't think you'll ever complete? I couldn't find a way to move on and try a different one, so I was stuck using my entire day's time banging my head against a faulty bit of logic. Certainly there is a way and many players have done that.
Just that you have to wait for one hour. When you go to the submission page after an hour, all other puzzles will be enabled to be started. (Just wanted to clarify that the "one hour constraint" was added so that players don't start 2 puzzles at the same time by mistake and lose potential bonus ) |
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FoxFireX
Posts: 35
Country : United States | Administrator - 2013-03-02 6:11 PM
Certainly there is a way and many players have done that.
Just that you have to wait for one hour. When you go to the submission page after an hour, all other puzzles will be enabled to be started. (Just wanted to clarify that the "one hour constraint" was added so that players don't start 2 puzzles at the same time by mistake and lose potential bonus)
Ah. So you have to actually reload the page after an hour, then? I just kept it loaded, and the other puzzles never came back as available. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Watches and Fifty Fifty are uploaded. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Congratulations to Hideaki, first player to finish all 12 puzzles. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Update on Watches rules : Each circle should have 1, 2, 3 or 4 arrows of given lengths (as many as arrows as numbers) |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-03 10:18 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | |
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Bram28
Posts: 35
Country : The Netherlands | Bram28 posted @ 2013-03-03 11:34 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
I had a very enjoyable weekend! As a slow puzzle solver, it was great to finish and submit answers to all the puzzles for once. In addition to the three most favorite puzzles I picked (Araf got me completely stumped for some 30 minutes, the flow of Nanro was beautiful, and I think I fell for every trap in Watches, and broke it some 20 times: well done Serkan! ), I'd like to add Mintonette as a fourth for its fun layout. But all puzzles were good. Thanks to all the puzzle makers!!! |
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yureklis
Posts: 183
Country : Turkey | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Nilz
Posts: 29
Country : United Kingdom | Nilz posted @ 2013-03-04 3:03 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Fity Fifty | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Bit unfair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
To elaborate on why I voted for it being a 'slightly unfair' scoring system:
If I understand it correctly, there are bonus points for being the fastest solver of a puzzle? This is OK for some tests, but in my opinion this doesn't really make sense when combined with the other parts of the scoring system for this test- the winner gets most points anyway, they don't need any more. Imagine two people get identical times on most puzzles: except on puzzle X, person A beats B by 2 seconds, and they come 2nd and 3rd in the rankings. And on puzzle Y, person B beats A by 2 seconds, but they come first and second. In my view, they should tie overall, but if I understand the scoring for this test correctly, B will win, and I think this is slightly unfair.
But apart from that, great test, great puzzles, looking forward to next year's marathon! ;- ) Edited by Nilz 2013-03-04 3:10 AM
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | Great, I solved each puzzle within its allotted time, and no stuck-for-2-hours experiences like last year :P Having said that, would've liked to do a bit better on some puzzles. Thanks to all the other authors for some great puzzles. :) |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-03-04 3:31 AM Nilz - 2013-03-04 3:03 AM
To elaborate on why I voted for it being a 'slightly unfair' scoring system:
If I understand it correctly, there are bonus points for being the fastest solver of a puzzle? This is OK for some tests, but in my opinion this doesn't really make sense when combined with the other parts of the scoring system for this test- the winner gets most points anyway, they don't need any more. Imagine two people get identical times on most puzzles: except on puzzle X, person A beats B by 2 seconds, and they come 2nd and 3rd in the rankings. And on puzzle Y, person B beats A by 2 seconds, but they come first and second. In my view, they should tie overall, but if I understand the scoring for this test correctly, B will win, and I think this is slightly unfair.
But apart from that, great test, great puzzles, looking forward to next year's marathon! ;-)
Everyone who finishes within the alotted time gets bonus for rank, not just the fastest. So in your situation, B gets a bonus for 1st and 3rd, A gets bonus for finishing second twice. |
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figonometry
Posts: 30
Country : Canada | I really like the Maxi Loop, which I haven't seen before, but I absolutely hate the presentation. On my fourth try, I finally had to use a thick red Sharpie pen, so I could see what I was doing. Perhaps in the future it could use a smaller font for the numbers? |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-04 6:08 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Average | |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-04 1:14 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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RALehrer
Posts: 31
Country : United States | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Fity Fifty | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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greenhorn
Posts: 164
Country : Slovakia | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | A bit skewed | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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deu
Posts: 69
Country : Japan | deu posted @ 2013-03-04 5:17 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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EoHeongMat
Posts: 7
Country : South Korea | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-03-04 10:24 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
I'll be good and not vote for my own puzzle. Nanro was really fun. I had never seen it before this contest. Would love to see solve some more. |
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xevs
Posts: 43
Country : Japan | xevs posted @ 2013-03-05 1:22 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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SKnight
Posts: 25
Country : United States | SKnight posted @ 2013-03-05 4:52 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Masyu | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | |
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debmohanty
Country : India | |
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PuzzleScott
Posts: 42
Country : United States | My correct nanro submission was rejected because of lower case x instead of upper case. Really??? Please fix this. I was over 60 minutes, so presumably no effect on my score. |
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Administrator
Country : India | PuzzleScott - 2013-03-05 8:42 AM
My correct nanro submission was rejected because of lower case x instead of upper case. Really??? Please fix this. Case does not matter in this puzzle, in none of the puzzles. There are many entries in Star Battle puzzle with lower case. Also there is exactly 1 submission from you for Nanro which is marked correct. |
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Tablesaw
Posts: 12
Country : United States | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-05 10:18 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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sbeck
Posts: 5
Country : United States | sbeck posted @ 2013-03-05 9:03 PM In Maxi Loop, is the number indicated only the maximum number of consecutive cells or is it a requirement that there be a segment with that length in the marked areas?
Thanks. |
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Administrator
Country : India | sbeck - 2013-03-05 9:03 PM
In Maxi Loop, is the number indicated only the maximum number of consecutive cells or is it a requirement that there be a segment with that length in the marked areas?
Thanks. It is a requirement that there be at least one segment with the given length in the outlined region. |
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kishy72
Posts: 419
Country : India | kishy72 posted @ 2013-03-05 11:08 PM I am not clear about the rules in a Gapped Kakuro I have got broken thrice and losing my mental stamina .. Makes me think that i m not sure that i understand completely the rules.
* Can there be numbers which are not part of the sums (of any clues which are given at the top or the left)
* Can a number which is a part of the sum of the clue given at the left be immediately under a black shaded cell or should that cell be Xed out ??
* Is there any other restriction other than the no number repeating in a sum and no blank cells adjacent rule? |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | kishy72 - 2013-03-05 11:08 PM
I am not clear about the rules in a Gapped Kakuro
* Can there be numbers which are not part of the sums (of any clues which are given at the top or the left)
* Can a number which is a part of the sum of the clue given at the left be immediately under a black shaded cell or should that cell be Xed out ??
* Is there any other restriction other than the no number repeating in a sum and no blank cells adjacent rule?
You are over thinking things. There's no other restriction. Numbers can come in cells not covered by any sums too, following the 1-9 ruling. For the 2nd question, if I understand it right, there's no restriction on being immediately under or on any side of a black cell, just go by the sums on whether or not something needs to be Xed out or filled by a number. |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-03-06 12:27 AM Administrator - 2013-03-05 9:51 PM
sbeck - 2013-03-05 9:03 PM
In Maxi Loop, is the number indicated only the maximum number of consecutive cells or is it a requirement that there be a segment with that length in the marked areas?
Thanks. It is a requirement that there be at least one segment with the given length in the outlined region.
That's actually why it's formulated as the highest amount and not the maximum amount. I figured highest would imply it always appears. |
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TiiT
Posts: 139
Country : Estonia | TiiT posted @ 2013-03-06 1:41 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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PuzzleScott
Posts: 42
Country : United States | I just reported what happened. I used 'x' in my first nanro submission. It was rejected as wrong. I then changed all 'x's to 'X's and resubmitted. That was accepted.
I later used 'x' in gap kakuro and it worked fine. Might different puzzles parse it differently?
I agree 'x' should always work for 'X'. That's why I reported it. I don't have the info to know if this was a fluke or a (nanro only?) bug.
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PuzzleScott
Posts: 42
Country : United States | It would be nice to have some way to start a new puzzle without having to wait an hour on an unsolved puzzle. I even tried to run up the clock with bad submissions, but the clock didn't jump. |
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Administrator
Country : India | PuzzleScott - 2013-03-06 8:57 AM
It would be nice to have some way to start a new puzzle without having to wait an hour on an unsolved puzzle. I even tried to run up the clock with bad submissions, but the clock didn't jump.
We have reset your time in the db and you can skip Watches now and start any other puzzle. Just refresh the submission page.
We'll probably add a "Skip" button next time |
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Gotroch
Posts: 83
Country : Czech Republic | Gotroch posted @ 2013-03-06 9:23 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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witty
Posts: 16
Country : India | witty posted @ 2013-03-06 10:42 AM Can the submission deadline be extended by a few days? |
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Administrator
Country : India | witty - 2013-03-06 10:42 AM
Can the submission deadline be extended by a few days? It is still open for 5 more days! |
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Joo M.Y
Posts: 72
Country : South Korea | Joo M.Y posted @ 2013-03-06 4:09 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Rubben
Posts: 20
Country : Romania | Rubben posted @ 2013-03-06 5:56 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Fity Fifty | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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connect4
Posts: 7
Country : United States | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Nilz
Posts: 29
Country : United Kingdom | Nilz posted @ 2013-03-07 2:33 AM Para - 2013-03-03 11:31 PM
Nilz - 2013-03-04 3:03 AM
To elaborate on why I voted for it being a 'slightly unfair' scoring system:
If I understand it correctly, there are bonus points for being the fastest solver of a puzzle? This is OK for some tests, but in my opinion this doesn't really make sense when combined with the other parts of the scoring system for this test- the winner gets most points anyway, they don't need any more. Imagine two people get identical times on most puzzles: except on puzzle X, person A beats B by 2 seconds, and they come 2nd and 3rd in the rankings. And on puzzle Y, person B beats A by 2 seconds, but they come first and second. In my view, they should tie overall, but if I understand the scoring for this test correctly, B will win, and I think this is slightly unfair.
But apart from that, great test, great puzzles, looking forward to next year's marathon! ;-)
Everyone who finishes within the alotted time gets bonus for rank, not just the fastest. So in your situation, B gets a bonus for 1st and 3rd, A gets bonus for finishing second twice.
Ah, thanks, that makes a bit more sense. Still not sure I agree with the scoring system though; it means that the relative final positions of any two solvers may be affected by how a third, separate solver does, which seems a bit odd to me (see http://rangevoting.org/GutermanCHE.html for more about this phenomenom- particularly the paragraph about halfway down starting "A dramatic flaunting..." ). But at least it does make sense! |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-03-07 3:16 AM Nilz - 2013-03-07 2:33 AM
Para - 2013-03-03 11:31 PM
Nilz - 2013-03-04 3:03 AM
To elaborate on why I voted for it being a 'slightly unfair' scoring system:
If I understand it correctly, there are bonus points for being the fastest solver of a puzzle? This is OK for some tests, but in my opinion this doesn't really make sense when combined with the other parts of the scoring system for this test- the winner gets most points anyway, they don't need any more. Imagine two people get identical times on most puzzles: except on puzzle X, person A beats B by 2 seconds, and they come 2nd and 3rd in the rankings. And on puzzle Y, person B beats A by 2 seconds, but they come first and second. In my view, they should tie overall, but if I understand the scoring for this test correctly, B will win, and I think this is slightly unfair.
But apart from that, great test, great puzzles, looking forward to next year's marathon! ;-)
Everyone who finishes within the alotted time gets bonus for rank, not just the fastest. So in your situation, B gets a bonus for 1st and 3rd, A gets bonus for finishing second twice.
Ah, thanks, that makes a bit more sense. Still not sure I agree with the scoring system though; it means that the relative final positions of any two solvers may be affected by how a third, separate solver does, which seems a bit odd to me (see http://rangevoting.org/GutermanCHE.html for more about this phenomenom- particularly the paragraph about halfway down starting "A dramatic flaunting..." ). But at least it does make sense!
The ranking system last year was purely based on time left to solve. Just as this year, the worst solves are discarded. But this caused a problem because not all puzzles are the same difficulty and take the same average or fastest time to solve. This caused for most people last year to have the same puzzle discarded, even if their relative performance was really good compared to others. As the same time on different puzzles might not actually be equally good, it was suggested the scoring system could be improved. So that's why there was a discussion on how to make it fairer, to rank players for each puzzle on their relative performance in each puzzle, instead of their purely time related performance. This eventually led to a bonus system that is similar to the LMI rankings, where each test is scored relatively to the performance of the best solver. In this test instead of top score and ranking, there are fastest time and ranking. And all solvers who finish a puzzle fast enough to qualify for a bonus are included in this calculation.
I'm not saying this is a perfect scoring system, but it's fairer than last year's. And if you have any suggestions on what you think might be a better way, I think they are always welcome. There's always room for discussion here.
Edited by Para 2013-03-07 3:17 AM
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Nilz
Posts: 29
Country : United Kingdom | Nilz posted @ 2013-03-07 3:57 AM Para - 2013-03-06 11:16 PM
Nilz - 2013-03-07 2:33 AM
Para - 2013-03-03 11:31 PM
Nilz - 2013-03-04 3:03 AM
To elaborate on why I voted for it being a 'slightly unfair' scoring system:
If I understand it correctly, there are bonus points for being the fastest solver of a puzzle? This is OK for some tests, but in my opinion this doesn't really make sense when combined with the other parts of the scoring system for this test- the winner gets most points anyway, they don't need any more. Imagine two people get identical times on most puzzles: except on puzzle X, person A beats B by 2 seconds, and they come 2nd and 3rd in the rankings. And on puzzle Y, person B beats A by 2 seconds, but they come first and second. In my view, they should tie overall, but if I understand the scoring for this test correctly, B will win, and I think this is slightly unfair.
But apart from that, great test, great puzzles, looking forward to next year's marathon! ;-)
Everyone who finishes within the alotted time gets bonus for rank, not just the fastest. So in your situation, B gets a bonus for 1st and 3rd, A gets bonus for finishing second twice.
Ah, thanks, that makes a bit more sense. Still not sure I agree with the scoring system though; it means that the relative final positions of any two solvers may be affected by how a third, separate solver does, which seems a bit odd to me (see http://rangevoting.org/GutermanCHE.html for more about this phenomenom- particularly the paragraph about halfway down starting "A dramatic flaunting..." ). But at least it does make sense!
The ranking system last year was purely based on time left to solve. Just as this year, the worst solves are discarded. But this caused a problem because not all puzzles are the same difficulty and take the same average or fastest time to solve. This caused for most people last year to have the same puzzle discarded, even if their relative performance was really good compared to others. As the same time on different puzzles might not actually be equally good, it was suggested the scoring system could be improved. So that's why there was a discussion on how to make it fairer, to rank players for each puzzle on their relative performance in each puzzle, instead of their purely time related performance. This eventually led to a bonus system that is similar to the LMI rankings, where each test is scored relatively to the performance of the best solver. In this test instead of top score and ranking, there are fastest time and ranking. And all solvers who finish a puzzle fast enough to qualify for a bonus are included in this calculation.
I'm not saying this is a perfect scoring system, but it's fairer than last year's. And if you have any suggestions on what you think might be a better way, I think they are always welcome. There's always room for discussion here.
Yes, I remember that discussion, and I agree that this year's is fairer, so I'm certainly not complaining, and I hope it doesn't seem that I am! It's not perfect, but no system would be. And it does have the advantage of being fairly easy to understand (unless you're a muppet like me who misreads the method!  ).
It seemed to me that there were no puzzles this year that were outliers and were 'significantly' harder than the rest (unlike last year ), so last year's scoring system would've worked OK, but I still think this is better- just not perfect!  |
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nyoroppyi
Posts: 3
Country : Japan | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Administrator
Country : India | The score page is now handling penalties properly.
As you already have found out, you can see puzzles which you have submitted correctly. This means if you have not submitted all 12 puzzles, your rank will go down (even if the competition ends now ). |
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Administrator
Country : India | Couldn't help, but share how we have 3 winners now
(
1st table - after all 12 puzzles
2nd table - this is how the score page looks to EKBM who has finished just 2
3rd table - this is how the score page looks to sai who has finished just 2
)
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-08 12:13 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Fity Fifty | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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jhrdina
Posts: 9
Country : Czech Republic | jhrdina posted @ 2013-03-08 3:33 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Multi Skyscrapers | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Bit unfair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
The scoring is a little unfair in the respect that the most difficult puzzles have the least effect on scoring. They take too much time and bring too little bonus. It would be better to calculate bonus points against an average or median of times of the solvers. |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-03-08 4:34 AM jhrdina - 2013-03-08 3:33 AM
The scoring is a little unfair in the respect that the most difficult puzzles have the least effect on scoring. They take too much time and bring too little bonus. It would be better to calculate bonus points against an average or median of times of the solvers.
Isn't that what happens now? Every puzzle, no matter what the fastest solving time has the same bonus for the fastest solver. So every puzzle has the same range of bonus.
If you mean, the mean of all solvers, even the ones taking more than an hour, then it would severely alter the test structure. the idea of the one hour bonus cutoff point is so people can stop solving and don't have to keep solving for hours if they can't finish it as otherwise they'd lose loads of points. |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-08 8:42 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-08 9:53 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Multi Skyscrapers | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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zorko
Posts: 11
Country : Bulgaria | zorko posted @ 2013-03-09 12:53 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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keshava.hs
Posts: 10
Country : India | not getting marks for Maxi loop, please have a look |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-09 1:40 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
For people like me, it would be nice to get bonus points for a longer period than 60 minutes. Because often puzzles need just some more than 60 minutes (that was for several puzzles this time ), and this is worth just the same as working hours or days solving them. But nevertheless I enjoyed the contest very much, and it was hard to choose the 3 "best" puzzles, for they were all beautiful! |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-09 2:38 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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chaotic_iak
Posts: 241
Country : Indonesia | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
Well, the second and the third favorite puzzles are hard to decide; I have four candidates (Star Battle, Graffiti Snake, Maxi Loop, and Liar Diagonal Slitherlink ). The first is certainly Araf for me though. Great puzzles overall. |
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Igor_Aipkin
Posts: 3
Country : Uzbekistan | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Fity Fifty | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Administrator
Country : India | witty - 2013-03-06 10:42 AM
Can the submission deadline be extended by a few days? You finished even with more than a day to spare, which not many Indians have done yet. Hope you enjoyed. |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-10 4:23 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Masyu | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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esther59
Posts: 8
Country : Switzerland | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
Thank you VERY MUCH for this contest! It was really a very hard week for me to do all these puzzles, because I didn't know most of them and they were very difficult for me. But in the end, I have solved them all, I am very proud ;- ). Normally, I put puzzles after solving into the waste-paper basket, but these Marathon puzzles I will keep til I die ;- ). Thanks again to all the authors for these fantastic puzzles. |
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rimodech
Posts: 7
Country : Serbia | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-10 7:49 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | A bit skewed | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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kishy72
Posts: 419
Country : India | kishy72 posted @ 2013-03-10 1:47 PM I am sorry that i have to bring this up again.I am not able to make a start in the Gapped Kakuro.I tried bifurcating but there are simply
too many places to bifurcate and it is not a choice .
Is there a walkthrough or solving technique or starting tips anywhere in the web for Gapped Kakuro?I tried searching but i could not find any
Can someone post me a link or something if available?Thnks .
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | kishy72 - 2013-03-10 1:47 PM
I am sorry that i have to bring this up again.I am not able to make a start in the Gapped Kakuro.I tried bifurcating but there are simply
too many places to bifurcate and it is not a choice .
Is there a walkthrough or solving technique or starting tips anywhere in the web for Gapped Kakuro?I tried searching but i could not find any
Can someone post me a link or something if available?Thnks .
To start this particular one, just ask yourself, how many cells can 9 digits with just one gap between them be stretched to? ; ) Gapped Kakuro is based a lot on either "stretching" logic (you can only put these many numbers, if there's so many cells for a sum, then so many have to be spaces ) or crowded logic (this sum can't have any spaces because its big enough that all cells will be required ). Then mark the spaces and the cells you've determined a number needs to be in, that helps. |
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PuzzleScott
Posts: 42
Country : United States | When does the contest end? (I'm guessing in less than 24 hours, but I'm not really sure when). Any chance you could put an ending timer on the main page like for most contests?
Good contest and puzzles, thanks! |
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debmohanty
Country : India | PuzzleScott - 2013-03-10 3:28 PM
When does the contest end? (I'm guessing in less than 24 hours, but I'm not really sure when). Any chance you could put an ending timer on the main page like for most contests?
Good contest and puzzles, thanks! In about 13 hours, as I post this.
In the contest page, if you logout (top-right ) of the flash, you will see the end time etc back again. Edited by debmohanty 2013-03-10 3:44 PM
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-10 5:59 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | A bit skewed | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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kishy72
Posts: 419
Country : India | kishy72 posted @ 2013-03-10 11:58 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Very skewed | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
First and foremost thnks to LMI for such a wonderful contest.All the puzzles were very nice and of a high quality and thnks to all the author friends for having the patience to create such big puzzles.All the puzzles were a test of patience ,stamina and much more. Special thnks to PS and Deb without whom i would not have completed the Gapped Kakuro and hence the puzzle marathon. Got the neccessary idea that was needed from them and then it was routine stuff. The rules initially in the Gapped kakuro confused me totally. I never used the 1-9 logic in the borders without which the puzzle is unsolvable and does not have a unique solution. I was thinking that,only where sums are given the numbers dont repeat within that sum.So i never once got the idea that the numbers have to be 1-9 in the top / bottom most rows and left/right most columns .What prevented me from thinking the correct way was that in the middle numbers were repeating so i thought the 1-9 logic does not hold in the corners as well ,but then there there were blocks in the middle which is not the case in the corners. So basically numbers dont repeat provided they dont have a road block in between or a sum clue in between.I wont forget this golden rule again. PUZZLE MARATHON ONE good contest - MANY congratulations -HUGE round of applause : ) ) |
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euklid
Posts: 28
Country : Austria | euklid posted @ 2013-03-11 12:36 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Shaghayegh
Posts: 1
Country : Jordan | Fifty fifty: abcdefgh:
11000000
Ijklmnopqr:
0101000100
Stuvwxyz:
01110000
Hi, I coud not "start". Please do. Thanks. |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-11 3:56 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Multi Skyscrapers | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Nola
Posts: 18
Country : Germany | Nola posted @ 2013-03-11 4:34 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Fity Fifty | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
Even when I had fun the contest was a little to difficult and to extensive for me this year. Last year I could solve 4 out of ten puzzles in less than one hour time and one more puzzle in slightly (below 90 minutes ) more time. This year it was 2 out of 12 puzzles (+ 2 puzzles in under 90 minutes ). I also liked the number of 10 puzzles more than 12. Edit: To choose the 3 most favorite was difficult, so I decided for the (for me ) new puzzles. But I also liked Star battle and Graffiti Snake very much. And the missing black points in Masyu were very surprising. I like the concept of one hour with bonus points and then "infinite" time for finishing later. I do not want to have this longer, even when I could finish some puzzles with only slightly more time. But so I know I have to reserve one hour and then I can do something else again. Edited by Nola 2013-03-12 2:03 AM
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anderson
Posts: 16
Country : United States | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
This was a lot of fun. Thanks to all of the puzzle creators! |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-11 6:22 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
All puzzles (except Gapped Kakuro and Liar Diagonal Slitherlink, which I didn't even attempt ) are very good. Its actually hard to choose the 3 most favorite puzzles. Edited by An LMI player 2013-03-11 6:36 AM
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debmohanty
Country : India | Nola - 2013-03-11 4:34 AM
Even when I had fun the contest was a little to difficult and to extensive for me this year. Last year I could solve 4 out of ten puzzles in less than one hour time and one more puzzle in slightly (below 90 minutes) more time. This year it was 2 out of 12 puzzles (+ 2 puzzles in under 90 minutes). I also liked the number of 10 puzzles more than 12. Thank you for your feedback. We are most likely to have 10 puzzles next times. To me, 10 seems ideal. |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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term
Posts: 8
Country : Greece | term posted @ 2013-03-11 6:37 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
Congratulations to the authors, for correct and fun puzzles. I would like to add Star Battle, Maxi Loop and Nanro to the too-short list of honourable mentions above. Araf and Mintonette were pleasant surprises. At this size, these types could have been terrible messes of trial and error; instead, they solve very cleanly indeed. Also, congratulations to the organisers. I'm sure the unusual requirements of this contest had them put in a lot of extra work, what with the fancy scoring formula, and complex document presentation, and the finish line list and only they know what else. I did have a lot more wrong submissions than usual, but these were all on me, and not the fault of keying at all. With puzzles this size, I find myself losing focus when stuck, and end up repeatedly checking some subset of possible breakins. I need some way to remind myself to cast a wider net after a while. |
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macherlakumar
Posts: 123
Country : India | |
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macherlakumar
Posts: 123
Country : India | First of all thanks to Organizers, Puzzle authors and Puzzle testers. This time I get to see some new puzzles.
I had more fun compared to last year Puzzle Marathon and I am happy that this time I was able to gain bonus even though I broke them in the last. I am sad that this time I was not able to complete all 12 puzzles.
1) Star Battle: I have solved only a few of this type and the layout scared me a bit in the start, but once I made some progress I felt that it is indeed a easy one. Great one from Dr. Sudoku
2) Mintonette: This is my first time seeing of this one. The puzzle is well constructed with nice start, few tricks in middle and simple finish.
3) Maxi Loop: This is my first time seeing of this one. The puzzle is well constructed and I couldn't have completed this if I had not solved couple of them from Para's Blog.
4) Graffiti Snake: At first the layout gave an impression of hard level to me. After I made some progress I found that it is actually not that hard and all the given clues are sufficient enough to solve the puzzle.
5) Araf: This is my first time seeing of this one. The layout is excellent and the puzzle is well constructed. I made no progress in the first 8 min, later I was able to solve the upper portion and left portion under 30 min, but couldn't make proper deductions after that as I failed to use below left corner.
6) Multi Skyscrapers: I was never good with this type. The puzzle is well designed and has nice solving path. Thanks to the puzzle I was able to grasp few tricks for this type.
7) Watches: This is my first time seeing of this one. Even before I could see the puzzle I knew Serkan will surely provide the "Serkan fun while solving". The layout is excellent. I was able to solve the below half very quickly and thought I will be able to complete it under 60 min but I was wrong and the top half took more time to finish the puzzle, not to mention one wrong arrow costed me 20 minutes.
8) Nanro: This is my first time seeing of this one. I like the puzzle type very much. The puzzle is well constructed with a nice solving path. Somehow unconsciously I was making deductions assuming that numbers inside the region should form a polyomino :(
9) Masyu: I knew that the layout will be something different and I was right, it had only white circles. Excellent puzzle.
10) Fifty Fifty: I really had a hard time solving this one. no doubt that the puzzle is very good and thanks to puzzle that I was able to grasp few tricks. I was not able to make any deduction and just started bifurcation to solve it and luckily I was able to make all right guesses.
Liar Diagonal Slitherlink and Gapped Kakuro: No comments as I did not attempt these.
Regards,
Ravi |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-11 7:47 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Fity Fifty | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | A bit skewed | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
From my perspective, most of the puzzles were too hard. Edited by An LMI player 2013-03-11 7:48 AM
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Administrator
Country : India | macherlakumar - 2013-03-11 6:48 AM
My usual question : ) Regards, Ravi The test solvers are
Branko Ceranic - I can never thank Branko enough for all the pre-solving he does (for this test, beginners and many other LMI tests )
Rohan Rao - who has taken a break from competitive solving, but is available for pre-solving :- )
Last year, we were able to include the test solvers' scores in the official list, but we couldn't do so this year because of administrative constraints and also because some puzzles got changed after their testing.
Thanks also to Prasanna who was the first official solver, and also to Serkan and Fred C for spending time on the test before it began.
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Administrator
Country : India | Single booklet with all puzzles and no password available here |
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Administrator
Country : India | So congratulations to MellowMelon for winning Puzzle Marathon this year - he had impressive timings on several puzzles. Unlike last year, he won 6 out of 12 puzzles this year. deu and xevs take the 2nd and 3rd places respectively.
Individual puzzle wise, there were 6 winners : sai (Multi Skyscrapers, Graffiti Snake), deu (Maxi Loop), muhorka (Liar Diagonal Slitherlink), xevs (Araf), EoHeongMat (Fifty Fifty), and MellowMelon (Masyu, Star Battle, Gapped Kakuro, Mintonette, Nanro, Watches)
Out of 467 participants, 105 players solved all available puzzles and 305 solved at least one puzzle correctly. Thank you for participating. |
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brkbtls
Posts: 1
Country : Turkey | brkbtls posted @ 2013-03-11 9:33 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
Hi everyone, this was my first marathon discovering this website quite recently. I've enjoyed it most of the time (although it was a bit painful to progress sometimes : ) ) . Most of the puzzles were new to me. star battle: I was most familiar with this puzzle from gmpuzzles, and I knew how to approach this so I attempted this puzzle first. but made silly mistake twice and finished just under an hour. I'm not a fast solver currently. for other puzzles, I didnt attempt to finish other puzzles under an hour. Mintonette: First time I'm seeing this puzzle. I did some progress on 3 side but didn't find a clue for other regions. It didnt seem like a fun puzzle to me looked like need some trial error play. I didnt spend too much time. MAxi loop:First time I'm seeing this puzzle. it was fun, didn't need a lot of trial and error. My 2nd favorite. Graffiti snake : First time I'm seeing this puzzle. solved this in ms paint. it was a lot fun. My 3rd favourite. Araf: First time I'm seeing this puzzle. Enjoyed solving this, it took me some time where to start and how to use large numbers. multi skyscrapers. I solved 5 squares without any trobule but stuck for some time refusing scenario testing. at the end i give up being stubborn. solved at the end but It was a bit painful for me and I guess I missed some hint. watches: First time I'm seeing this puzzle. it was pretty good and to my surprise it didnt require any trial error. Just getting the direction of 7 clue solved lower half and 5 clue the upper half. nanro: First time I'm seeing this puzzle. But it was my most favourite to solve. Maybe it's because I'm a huge nurikabe fan. Pretty good solving path. masyu: I was a bit familiar with masyu and this was the second puzzle I attempted. However, it was the most paintful and I couldnt solve correctly. I couldnt progress much, made an assumption and I didnt get a conflict for 50 %, stuck progressing, made another assumption and after a lot of sweat I've finished it. Double checking the result, I realized one stupid circle missed a turn : ( and it didn't appear the mistake was fixable easily, and of course solution key was rejected. this puzzle doesnt look right for a large size since one mistake costs a lot. Probably missed the right way to approcah this, keeping track of the single loop was a headache. gapped kakuro: it didnt take me long to understand for uniqueness I need to assume edge sums were 45. with that, puzzle can be solved pretty much easily. I didnt attempt fity fifty and slitherlink, I didn't have time, will try them later. Thanks for the puzzle contributers and administrators for this fun marathon. |
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MellowMelon
Country : United States | It should be mentioned deu had a higher total bonus; a slight change to the ranking system (best 11 of 12 might have been enough) could have easily made him the winner. I didn't stay very consistent throughout even if I had a few lucky breaks.
No bad puzzles in this set, and a lot of them were nicely thematic (Star Battle, Masyu, Mintonette, Gapped Kakuro's opening, Araf's large regions). Nanro was my favorite solve of the bunch; new and interesting thinking the whole way. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | MellowMelon - 2013-03-11 9:34 AM
It should be mentioned deu had a higher total bonus; a slight change to the ranking system (best 11 of 12 might have been enough) could have easily made him the winner. I didn't stay very consistent throughout even if I had a few lucky breaks.
I did notice that, and wanted to mention, but thanks for bringing it up. It is always debatable whether it should be best 11 or best 10. I just went by my hunch that best 10 is better (there were more puzzles this time, and that some of the authors are high profile players themselves and they won't have any benefit if it is best 11 ). Sudoku Grand Prix rules also played in my mind, which is considering best 75%.
But yes, deu played incredibly well and had very consistent timings.
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charlesqfleming
Posts: 1
Country : United States | I would be very interested if someone could walk through their solution for the upper left-most square of the skyscapers puzzle. After solving the other squares, so I had the clues for the bottom and right-hand side of this square, I was able to place all the 5's, but couldn't get much further. I only solved it after some very extensive guess-and-checking. Was there a better way? |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-11 11:25 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Fity Fifty | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | A bit skewed | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Average | |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-11 12:32 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Masyu | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Bit unfair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-11 12:50 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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katarina
Posts: 4
Country : Croatia | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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SilBer
Posts: 8
Country : Germany | SilBer posted @ 2013-03-11 2:17 PM brkbtls - 2013-03-11 5:33 AM
Mintonette: First time I'm seeing this puzzle. I did some progress on 3 side but didn't find a clue for other regions. It didnt seem like a fun puzzle to me looked like need some trial error play. I didnt spend too much time.
(Can anyone help me how to end the quotation and begin my own text?? )
Yes, it is solvable without trial and error. An important thing to see: In the right above part of the puzzle, if you fill in the right edges, they can not belong to any circle with a 2 in it. This helps a lot, for you have to use the only ways outside the area which is filled with 2-circles. The 3- and the 4-part I think were quite easy to solve, and with the detection I first described, there is only left a small 1-part-region, which was more difficult in my opinion.
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-11 2:27 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Multi Skyscrapers | |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-11 3:14 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Masyu | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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debmohanty
Country : India | An LMI player - 2013-03-09 1:40 AM
For people like me, it would be nice to get bonus points for a longer period than 60 minutes. Because often puzzles need just some more than 60 minutes (that was for several puzzles this time), and this is worth just the same as working hours or days solving them. But nevertheless I enjoyed the contest very much, and it was hard to choose the 3 "best" puzzles, for they were all beautiful!
I am not sure if we can really find a solution this problem. Increasing the limit to 75 minutes or so is not a solution, because there will be some players who might finish a puzzle in 78 minutes for example.
We certainly want a cut-off time beyond which the puzzle does not carry bonus points. Of course, if others have some other ideas to handle this, please share.
About the bonus system
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Last year, we had extensive debate on how to improve the bonus system, especially about "normalizing" the bonus points. In fact, this year's system is directly based on a suggestion from last year. There are some votes indicating that the bonus system was bit unfair, it is important to know why players thought so. Except Nilz, I can't see any concrete reasons.
Given how popular Puzzle Marathon has been, we would certainly try to make it as an annual event. And if the bonus system has some obvious problems, we need players' input and opinion on how to get it fixed for next year (s ).
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rajeshk
Posts: 542
Country : India | rajeshk posted @ 2013-03-11 5:42 PM Thanks to all the authors for these great puzzles. Unfortunately I could not solve all of them due to disconnection of Internet at my home. Anyway whatever the puzzles I could download and solve last week, I found each and every puzzle created very carefully. I liked Fifty-Fifty the most and found Gapped Kakuro little tough to solve.
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-11 5:43 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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keshava.hs
Posts: 10
Country : India | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Multi Skyscrapers | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
Though i was in a customer workshop for most of the days and lot of deliverables, i was not lucky enough to attempt all puzzles. But the puzzles were so irresistable, so tried couple in whatever time i had. It was amazing!!, Thanks a lot to for all authors for a wonderful puzzle set. Warm Regards, Keshav |
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standupcanada
Posts: 11
Country : Canada | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Multi Skyscrapers | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
This test served as an excellent reminder as to why I stay away from the larger tests on regular competitions. Too prone to little mistakes that come back to haunt you later. The puzzles themselves were excellent - but probably not a competition I repeat in the future (It's not you - it's me ). |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-11 11:06 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | A bit skewed | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Average | |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | So then, a quick post from the author side of me. When me and Deb decided on Graffiti Snake for me, my first 2 thoughts were,
1) Oh, its gonna be tough to follow up Serkan's beautiful puzzle last year.
2) The starting step in previous Graffiti Snakes I've designed generally require some thought and I needed to avoid that since I believe that having a complicated start coupled with a puzzle of a huge size isn't good during competition (Incidentally, I've already had a Graffiti Snake rejected elsewhere in the past for the opening being too tough!). Also, if the start isn't obvious in a genre like Graffiti Snake, the timings might fluctuate a lot.
I quickly put the first thought out of my head and designed the puzzle on some simple locally observable openings, the notably obvious one being the right bottom corner, with the crowding of clues around that area. The rest of the puzzle flows fine after that moving upwards.
I'm glad and pleasantly surprised that its gotten into the top 3 for a lot of solvers. |
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greenhorn
Posts: 164
Country : Slovakia | Hi everybody,
I want to thanks Deb and his team for preparing such a great contest. I want to appreciate all puzzles by 11 authors, who made really great job while constructing their puzzles. I really enjoyed the solving, even I had many troubles (printer, repeated submitting of answer key with small mistakes, Jehovah´s Witnesses knocking at the door).
As I post before, my favourite puzzles were these three:
Watches (great puzlle, Serkan!)
Nanro (All three mentioned problems appeared within solving this puzzle. However I really love this puzzle type, and I hope we may expect some Nanro contest in few months)
and Diagonal Liar Slitherlink (although I had empty grid after 30 minutes with no clue how to start).
The hardest puzzles for me were Star Battle, Fifty-Fifty and Skyscrapers. I was not able to find out the logic of these puzzles, but it is just because I am not so versed in these types, so I solved them only by using brute force (guessing, guessing and one more guessing). I am still very ashemed, sorry :(
I am quite surprised that Araf is one of the most appreciated puzzles. I had some really good feeling when the puzzle masters (as Tiit, Neil, Hideaki, Jakub, Zoltan and many others) voted for my puzzle. Maybe I am the one who decided (by my vote for Nanro), that Nanro is the most favourite puzzle of this contest (right before Araf). But I do not regret my "defeat" because Nanro is a puzzle genre I enjoy the most since Tapa in 2009!
At the end, here is my story of discovering Araf.
We firstly noticed Araf (by Serkan) at WPC in Poland. Our team have no clue how to solve such a puzzle. In the bus we saw some Turkish players to solve some Araf puzzles just by one stroke and could not believe it. In the competion nobody of us tried to solve Araf. However we had a great fun with using word Araf in meaningless meanings during the championship (What do you want for breakfast? Araf!).
Just after the WPC we made small competition in guessing that puzzles and I won, so I had a feeling to be the Araf master of my country in that moment. Few months later I used small puzzle (5x5) in a regional tournament, where only Matej Uher solved it by logic. In the autumn we think about using Araf at 24HPC, but it was never used in our set (it was too difficult even without Araf), but Serkan published that puzzle in Akil Oyunlari last year.
Now is Araf one of my favourite puzzle genres and I am very delighted that you liked my puzzle. Thanks!
Edited by greenhorn 2013-03-12 1:17 AM
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MarkFox
Posts: 5
Country : United States | MarkFox posted @ 2013-03-12 2:22 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
I like the marathon, independently timed structure a lot! I also like the idea of giving a substantial point value simply for correct submission, with bonus for beating a certain speed threshold. I'd like to see higher threshold (90 min, or 2 hours ) with increasing bonus values for increasingly fast times - i.e. bonus for 45 minutes vs 46 minutes would be greater than bonus for 65 vs 66 minutes. I think it would allow for more meaningful rankings among those of us in the kind-of-fast but not superfast levels. (I am not unbiased, here, I finished several puzzles between 60 and 70 minutes...Blast!! ) I suppose I think there is a real distinction between finishing in 90 minutes and finishing in 790 minutes. |
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Nilz
Posts: 29
Country : United Kingdom | Nilz posted @ 2013-03-12 3:35 AM greenhorn - 2013-03-11 9:08 PM
Hi everybody,
I want to thanks Deb and his team for preparing such a great contest. I want to appreciate all puzzles by 11 authors, who made really great job while constructing their puzzles. I really enjoyed the solving, even I had many troubles (printer, repeated submitting of answer key with small mistakes, Jehovah´s Witnesses knocking at the door).
As I post before, my favourite puzzles were these three:
Watches (great puzlle, Serkan!)
Nanro (All three mentioned problems appeared within solving this puzzle. However I really love this puzzle type, and I hope we may expect some Nanro contest in few months)
and Diagonal Liar Slitherlink (although I had empty grid after 30 minutes with no clue how to start).
The hardest puzzles for me were Star Battle, Fifty-Fifty and Skyscrapers. I was not able to find out the logic of these puzzles, but it is just because I am not so versed in these types, so I solved them only by using brute force (guessing, guessing and one more guessing). I am still very ashemed, sorry :(
I am quite surprised that Araf is one of the most appreciated puzzles. I had some really good feeling when the puzzle masters (as Tiit, Neil, Hideaki, Jakub, Zoltan and many others) voted for my puzzle. Maybe I am the one who decided (by my vote for Nanro), that Nanro is the most favourite puzzle of this contest (right before Araf). But I do not regret my "defeat" because Nanro is a puzzle genre I enjoy the most since Tapa in 2009!
At the end, here is my story of discovering Araf.
We firstly noticed Araf (by Serkan) at WPC in Poland. Our team have no clue how to solve such a puzzle. In the bus we saw some Turkish players to solve some Araf puzzles just by one stroke and could not believe it. In the competion nobody of us tried to solve Araf. However we had a great fun with using word Araf in meaningless meanings during the championship (What do you want for breakfast? Araf!).
Just after the WPC we made small competition in guessing that puzzles and I won, so I had a feeling to be the Araf master of my country in that moment. Few months later I used small puzzle (5x5) in a regional tournament, where only Matej Uher solved it by logic. In the autumn we think about using Araf at 24HPC, but it was never used in our set (it was too difficult even without Araf), but Serkan published that puzzle in Akil Oyunlari last year.
Now is Araf one of my favourite puzzle genres and I am very delighted that you liked my puzzle. Thanks!
I'd never solved an Araf before this puzzle was announced. The only place I'd seen them (I now know ) was in Akil Oyunlari as an instructionless puzzle... and I couldn't work out the rules! Now that I know the rules, I don't think I'd ever have worked it out, they seem pretty anti-intuitive- to me, it would be more natural if the area was exactly equal to one of the numbers or something like that, rather than somewhere in between, but I guess that would change the logic quite a bit and not be as good. So anyway, once this competition was announced, I learnt the rules and did the example puzzles linked to earlier in this thread, but I didn't really have high hopes, because like I said the rules seemed a bit random (sorry Serkan ). However, I thought the actual puzzle was great, and surpassed all my expectations- it had lots of logic I hadn't really appreciated before, and it just seemed to work really well. That's why I voted for it, so thanks for designing it! |
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Nilz
Posts: 29
Country : United Kingdom | Nilz posted @ 2013-03-12 3:38 AM MarkFox - 2013-03-11 10:22 PM
I suppose I think there is a real distinction between finishing in 90 minutes and finishing in 790 minutes.
The trouble is, if you know you can only get bonus points within 60 minutes, lots of people will relax after that time, and take a break or whatever. So the person who solved it in 790 might have spent less time on it than the person who clocked 90. You definitely need a threshold, because people can't spend hours on end solving one puzzle, and I think 60 minutes works well. |
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MarkFox
Posts: 5
Country : United States | MarkFox posted @ 2013-03-12 4:18 AM Fair enough. I went back and looked at the breakdown of the scores, and there were only 8 people tied with a score of 500, out of 305 who submitted any correct solutions. That's not bad. If there were hundreds, or even dozens, of people tied at 500, I'd stand more firmly by my suggestion.
On an unrelated note, for the first day or two of the contest, I was only able to "sign out" a single puzzle at a time, but later it became possible to sign out more than one puzzle at the same time. Was this according to plan, or was there a decision during the contest to change it? I have no objection either way, I am just curious. (Though I really liked the concept of having to commit to an answer, for better or worse, before opening the next puzzle.) |
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Administrator
Country : India | MarkFox - 2013-03-12 4:18 AM
On an unrelated note, for the first day or two of the contest, I was only able to "sign out" a single puzzle at a time, but later it became possible to sign out more than one puzzle at the same time. Was this according to plan, or was there a decision during the contest to change it? I have no objection either way, I am just curious. (Though I really liked the concept of having to commit to an answer, for better or worse, before opening the next puzzle.) There was a constraint that a if you start a puzzle X, you can't start another puzzle Y until you submit X or one hour is over, whichever is earlier. This was to done so that players shouldn't start new puzzles by mistake there by losing bonus. But the problem was that, if you don't reopen/refresh your browser, the system didn't check for the 1 hour period and kept on disabling new puzzle starts.
I'm pretty sure your observation is related to this. |
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MauFirenze
Posts: 1
Country : ITALY | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Multi Skyscrapers | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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yureklis
Posts: 183
Country : Turkey | Araf is a lovely Japanese puzzle type. But it is hard to construct puzzle, especially providing uniquiness. In Puzzle Marathon, it was one of my favorites. Actually after the test, when I decide the three favorite types I considered two approaches: Which puzzles have lovely solving steps (solver side), which puzzles have cute construction? From solver side, my favorite type is Araf. Matus did a great job. Because as I mentioned, Araf is a hard choice to prepare, so I appreciate Matus's work. But from designer side, there was a given area in the puzzle, so I kept it in mind. But now I think that I could ignore this, because preparing such a big puzzle such good is a huge effort. Sorry for that.
Nanro is new for me, I didn't know this type before. This puzzle had lovely solution steps, and final movements in the middle of the grid were great. So, Nanro was satisfying for both sides.
Mintonette is also new for me. I had a lot fun when I was solving, and the designer made good job with (0) 1-2-3-4 theme in the puzzle. So, I put it to the same place with Nanro in my scale.
Gapped Kakuro... Maybe the puzzle was hard in the PM, but I've made so many Gapped Kakuro so far, so I know that most puzzles of the type appears hard because of the rules/construction. However Amit built cool solution steps in the current one, and the construction was great.
At the end, as a solver my favorite type was Araf; as a designer my favorite type was Gapped Kakuro. But Mintonette and Nanro did not only appeal to my solver feelings but also whispered to my designer sense. So I voted Gapped Kakuro, Mintonette and Nanro. Hmmm, I've told these now, but no one asked me: Serkan, what is your criteria about selecting best puzzles? :) I'm just talking.
An idea, maybe puzzle can be voted in two sections: Solving - Construction
[Edit]: I forgot to thanks, probably I need to sleep. Thank you so much Deb, you and LMI are doing huge things for puzzle community/culture. Of course thanks to all authors for their "huge size" effort. Thank you so much!
Edited by yureklis 2013-03-12 6:54 AM
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debmohanty
Country : India | greenhorn's long post about Araf
So when Matus mentioned early last year that he wants to make an Araf for Marathon, I asked him for few samples of the puzzle, since I wasn't aware of it. Even after solving the samples, I wasn't sure how it will work in a big grid. But having worked with him multiple times in the past, I was certain that he will make a perfect puzzle for Marathon, and he did.
The hardest puzzles for me were Star Battle, Fifty-Fifty and Skyscrapers. I was not able to find out the logic of these puzzles, but it is just because I am not so versed in these types, so I solved them only by using brute force (guessing, guessing and one more guessing).
We listed Star Battle at the top of the list because of Star Battle's familiarity and the particular puzzle was not difficult at all (just focus on the 2X2X3X3 boxes ). And for Fifty-Fifty, check Zoltan's solving guide which was posted in forum.
Couple of puzzles were made easier than their previous version, and I always wanted to upload the original versions. (That got delayed because I am not able to locate the pdf of original Masyu ). But here are 3 others.
Nanro (After solving the puzzle in the competition, you might not find the original one much difficult. But I thought solving the original one first time could have been challenging. So we decided to add few hints and change couple of regions but the finishing with 8s remained as-is )
Mintonette (The regions belonging to 0/1/3 are same. All test solvers and me were finding the 2s region extremely difficult to solve. Considering its unfamiliarity, we thought might make the 4s region bit easy also. Thanks Fred for quickly revamping this one )
Fifty Fifty (The original version has fewer shaded triangles. I don't know if it would have made much difference to top solvers' timings, but from average players' point of view, it was good to have more shaded triangles )
Attachments ----------------  M201303P_Nanro (Original).pdf (27KB - 16 downloads) P0X_Mintonette (Original).pdf (29KB - 12 downloads) M201303P_FiftyFity (Original).pdf (49KB - 9 downloads) |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Nola - 2013-03-11 4:34 AM
I like the concept of one hour with bonus points and then "infinite" time for finishing later. I do not want to have this longer, even when I could finish some puzzles with only slightly more time. But so I know I have to reserve one hour and then I can do something else again. Exactly. That precisely is our motivation to restrict bonus to 1 hour. |
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bjgeraci
Posts: 1
Country : United States | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
First time player. Enjoyed it. Thanks! |
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AngelSong20
Posts: 1
Country : United States | Enjoyed the puzzles I could solve during the week and glad that you made the rest available for those of us who couldn't devote too much time to solving. (I think one of my times was over 3400 minutes because I went to bed and then to work in between solving attempts!) Are the answer keys available anywhere? |
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Administrator
Country : India | Here are the answer keys.
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Mahyar
Posts: 8
Country : Iran | Mahyar posted @ 2013-03-12 6:35 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Fity Fifty | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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MrLiang
Posts: 44
Country : Thailand | MrLiang posted @ 2013-03-12 7:57 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Masyu | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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figonometry
Posts: 30
Country : Canada | How is the alternate key for the Slitherlink retrieved? |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-03-12 10:29 PM figonometry - 2013-03-12 9:10 PM
How is the alternate key for the Slitherlink retrieved?
I figure it's top to bottom instead of left to right. |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-12 11:02 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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BohemianCoast
Posts: 16
Country : United Kingdom | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Multi Skyscrapers | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
I didn't have time, this week, to do all of these puzzles -- such a shame. I will finish them off over the next little while. I really enjoyed the ones I did, though I got terribly stuck on skyscrapers in particular. |
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forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | It has been a wonderful contest. Better than last year because (1) the puzzles were more balanced and (2) the bonus mechanism was better. This is what I presume because I could not see a calculation of the bonus for each individual puzzle but only the sum.
Pity it came in a period in which I was very busy and in many cases I rushed a bit to solve some puzzle when I was a bit tired. In at least 3 cases I could not see the light and wasted a lot of time before getting through. But I am already looking forward to the next marathon.
Stefano |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-03-14 3:58 AM forcolin - 2013-03-14 2:57 AM
It has been a wonderful contest. Better than last year because (1) the puzzles were more balanced and (2) the bonus mechanism was better. This is what I presume because I could not see a calculation of the bonus for each individual puzzle but only the sum.
Pity it came in a period in which I was very busy and in many cases I rushed a bit to solve some puzzle when I was a bit tired. In at least 3 cases I could not see the light and wasted a lot of time before getting through. But I am already looking forward to the next marathon.
Stefano
When you open the score page, there is a banner with submission time. If you select points instead of submission time, you can see the score of each puzzle for each player and so see how much points/bonus you got for each puzzle. |
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Administrator
Country : India | The rank bonus / time bonus split is not available online score page. It is available in the excel file here. |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-17 5:27 AM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Multi Skyscrapers | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-03-17 3:05 PM | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Graffiti Snake | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Mintonette | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Administrator
Country : India | Feedback page is now disabled. The top 3 voted puzzles are Nanro, Araf, Mintonette. The difference between Minotnette and Star Battle is smaller than that between Nanro and Araf.
We will try to include as many of the favorite puzzles as possible in next year's marathon, just like we did this year.
The overall score for Marathon is 2.75 which is much higher than any other test we had after we introduced the new feedback system. Thank you everyone for voting. |
