|
|
Administrator
   
Country : India | Logic Masters India announces August Sudoku Test — Classics vs. Innovatives
Authors : Shinichi Aoki, Yosuke Imai, Masahiro Kaneko
Dates : 4 th - 6 th August
IB and Submission Link : here |
|
Administrator
Country : India | IB is uploaded. |
|
Kota
Posts: 33
Country : Japan | Kota posted @ 2012-07-30 8:25 AM Thanks for all authors and test solvers.
(I10)Sum of them: Do all marks appear? |
|
deu
Posts: 69
Country : Japan | deu posted @ 2012-07-30 8:38 AM Kota - 2012-07-30 8:25 AM
Thanks for all authors and test solvers.
(I10)Sum of them: Do all marks appear?
Yes. All possible squares are given.
(A cell is marked "IF AND ONLY IF" the digit ... ) |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | (I10)Sum of them
Additionally, I think it is important to note that the marked digit can be sum of surrounding 2 or 3 or 4 digits. I got confused why 7 at R3C7 is marked, only to realize that 7 = 1+1+2+3. I think all other marked cells are sum of 2 digits. |
|
gauravkorde
Posts: 27
Country : India | will there be online solving? |
|
utkaarsh
Posts: 89
Country : India | True to the name -really innovative Sudoku variants,
Co-ordinates is my choice for the best of the lot in terms of creativity !! |
|
prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | utkaarsh - 2012-07-30 6:35 PM
True to the name -really innovative Sudoku variants,
Co-ordinates is my choice for the best of the lot in terms of creativity !!
I agree. I found that a really interesting idea too.
Also, 16 grids, so looking forward to it :P |
|
Administrator
Country : India | gauravkorde - 2012-07-30 2:54 PM
will there be online solving? We decided not to have online solving for this test. It is difficult to solve some of the Sudokus online with LMI's basic interface.
|
|
akash.doulani
Posts: 157
Country : India | could not understand the rules of between sudoku. can someone please explain |
|
deu
Posts: 69
Country : Japan | deu posted @ 2012-07-31 6:33 PM akash.doulani - 2012-07-31 6:14 PM
could not understand the rules of between sudoku. can someone please explain
Take the arrow in the bottom right block for an example.
5 (R7C8 ) and 8 (R8C9 ) are on this arrow, and this arrow points 9 (R7C7 ) and 4 (R9C9 ). 5 and 8 are larger than 4 and smaller than 9.
The same thing must be true for all arrows. |
|
Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | prasanna16391 - 2012-07-30 3:37 PM
utkaarsh - 2012-07-30 6:35 PM
Co-ordinates is my choice for the best of the lot in terms of creativity !!
I agree. I found that a really interesting idea too.
Very original indeed. I am slightly afraid that the solving may be a bit laborious (and probably error-prone ), but I hope to be wrong; I haven't been able to print the IB yet, so perhaps solving the example will change my mind. Anyway, interesting rule which certainly makes it possible to create some very fun puzzles. I already have one idea or two in mind...
Just to be sure : regarding Between sudoku, digits on an arrow are always strictly larger/smaller than the two digits on the extremities, right ?
Thanks ! |
|
prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | Ours brun - 2012-08-01 1:45 AM
Just to be sure : regarding Between sudoku, digits on an arrow are always strictly larger/smaller than the two digits on the extremities, right ?
Thanks !
Looking at the IB example, yes. All digits have to be "in between" the two digits on the extremities, i.e. larger than one of them and smaller than the other. |
|
Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | Well, I know it is the case in the IB, but since I am unsure of the mathematical definition of "in between", I would prefer to be certain - although I am pretty sure Hideaki's answer will be the same as yours.  |
|
deu
Posts: 69
Country : Japan | deu posted @ 2012-08-01 3:04 AM Ours brun - 2012-08-01 1:45 AM
Just to be sure : regarding Between sudoku, digits on an arrow are always strictly larger/smaller than the two digits on the extremities, right ?
Yes. Prasanna's answer is completely correct. We use the word "between" in the strict sense. |
|
deu
Posts: 69
Country : Japan | deu posted @ 2012-08-01 3:53 AM |
|
Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2012-08-02 4:09 AM Some really interesting innovations here. I look forward to it !
Fred |
|
Administrator
Country : India |
Edited by debmohanty 2012-08-02 7:29 PM
|
|
abhi265645
Posts: 10
Country : India | i solved two innovations from instruction booklet - 1. even sandwich and 2. coordinates. . both are superb puzzle. . |
|
suryadevi
Posts: 14
Country : India | How can play the sudoku puzzles any please tell me. |
|
prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | suryadevi - 2012-08-02 3:19 PM
How can play the sudoku puzzles any please tell me.
Thats a really vague question. Do you want tips on how to solve? If so, do post a specific grid on the forum where you're having trouble, and one of us will surely help. Do you want to know how to participate in the Classics vs Innovatives contest? Read through this topic - http://logicmastersindia.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=381, I think it covers everything. If you still have doubts feel free to post again. |
|
kritz@martin
Posts: 3
Country : India | hey!! im a new entrant cn sum1 plzz temme also bought the classic n innovatives dat starts in 34hrs cuz i jst finished exams n wanna chillax so where else but doing sudokus!! so be my guest!! whoever see's dis pls reply!! |
|
prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | kritz@martin - 2012-08-02 7:04 PM
hey!! im a new entrant cn sum1 plzz temme also bought the classic n innovatives dat starts in 34hrs cuz i jst finished exams n wanna chillax so where else but doing sudokus!! so be my guest!! whoever see's dis pls reply!!
Thats a really vague question. Do you want tips on how to solve? If so, do post a specific grid on the forum where you're having trouble, and one of us will surely help. Do you want to know how to participate in the Classics vs Innovatives contest? Read through this topic - http://logicmastersindia.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=381, I think it covers everything. If you still have doubts feel free to post again.
|
|
Administrator
Country : India | Announcements
1. Password protected pdf is uploaded. It has 8 pages, there is no cover page / points table. Each page has two sudokus.
2. As announced earlier, there is no online solving in this test.
3. Link to score page : http://logicmastersindia.com/M201208S/score.asp
|
|
swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | Nice test this time. I would have to still improve of a lot though.
Thanks to authors and LMI for organizing test and such beautiful puzzles. I really liked the innovatives and will solve the remaining later. :)
Edited by swaroop2011 2012-08-04 9:16 PM
|
|
devarajand
Posts: 114
Country : India | I was unable to print. Just i got blank pages. May be i used black ink only option. I submitted the answer for C3 in C2 .
|
|
Administrator
Country : India | devarajand - 2012-08-05 10:37 AM
I was unable to print. Just i got blank pages. May be i used black ink only option.
Did anyone else face this problem?
devarajand - 2012-08-05 10:37 AM
I submitted the answer for C3 in C2 .
You get points for this. Refresh score page. |
|
krisram
Posts: 3
Country : India | krisram posted @ 2012-08-05 1:11 PM I have been struggling to see any sudoku puzzles after I start the test ... There is no flash page to solve it in online mode available in the link,
http://logicmastersindia.com/M201208S/
However, I am able to download the pdf but since I don't have a printer, I cannot print it out and solve it. It's more than 20 mins already since I started the test and it's really frustrating not able to solve it. |
|
Administrator
Country : India | krisram - 2012-08-05 1:11 PM
I have been struggling to see any sudoku puzzles after I start the test ... There is no flash page to solve it in online mode available in the link,
http://logicmastersindia.com/M201208S/
However, I am able to download the pdf but since I don't have a printer, I cannot print it out and solve it. It's more than 20 mins already since I started the test and it's really frustrating not able to solve it. Hi krisram, We had announced ( here and here earlier in this thread ) that there won't be any online solving this time because of some complex sudokus. |
|
prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | I liked most of the grids. Hit a road block in between, but got through a bit at the end thankfully. |
|
anurag
Posts: 136
Country : India | anurag posted @ 2012-08-05 7:17 PM Capsules is a great variation. |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | anurag - 2012-08-05 7:17 PM
Capsules is a great variation. It has been appearing with different names for a while now. For example, it appeared as Odd Sum Pair in WSC 2008. |
|
motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2012-08-06 12:23 AM Absolutely beautiful and elegant puzzles, whether you are a fan of classics or innovatives. Thanks so much for this incredible test. |
|
mtronic
Posts: 12
Country : Czech Republic | mtronic posted @ 2012-08-06 3:56 AM I have trouble with the killer sudoku in Instruction booklet. Looks like the font used for the cage sum (Swiss??) is not embedded into the document. I'm afraid it will be the same in the puzzle file. And I might have more things missing, this one is quite obvious. |
|
PuzzleScott
Posts: 42
Country : United States | Wonderful puzzles. Thanks! |
|
tamz29
Posts: 225
Country : Thailand | tamz29 posted @ 2012-08-06 1:16 PM superb quality from japan as always. great puzzles. great presentation. great format. |
|
Administrator
Country : India | With no more players participating now, Classics vs. Innovatives is now over, and the score page is open. |
|
Richard
Posts: 191
Country : The Netherlands | Richard posted @ 2012-08-07 9:55 AM Thanks for this nice set! After reading the IB I thought a few puzzles were a bit too innovative/ error sensible for my liking, but when you are a solver competing halfway the pack, you are allowed to make choices.
I had fun with the six puzzles I solved and also with the one that kept me busy for the last 24 minutes without succes.
The killer was my absolute favorite. Really a brilliant, narrow solving path! Took me a long time, but was very happy to complete it finally. |
|
prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | A bit more detail about my performance now - I started off pretty well, and made a mistake in inequality around the last bits of the solve and left it. Then Killer went pretty well, and I got my speed back with that. Around the halfway stage something went wrong and I was just staring blankly at the Capsule for 35 minutes. When I finally regained my bearings, I solved 4 more at the end, only to see that the Co-ordinates had an error, and looking at the other submissions, quite a common one. All in all, not one of my better days, so pleased enough with where I stand.
My favorites were Killer, Sum of them, Inequality, Irregular, Capsule in that order. I liked Co-ordinates, but it had a lot of different places to keep track of, so maybe not the best in a competition atmosphere.
Edited by prasanna16391 2012-08-07 1:19 PM
|
|
Ziti
Posts: 42
Country : United States | Ziti posted @ 2012-08-07 12:43 PM Thank you for the very fun and challenging set of puzzles. I am always impressed by the cleverness shown by the authors, and this is certainly no different. I will single out the Greater-Than Sudoku among many worthy choices -- it was amazing in its construction! |
|
Yuhei Kusui
Posts: 42
Country : Japan | As a Japanese, I'm proud that they provided an excellent set of puzzles!
BTW, I'd like to know the influence of difference in answer key: between this style (only 4 digits) and usual one (all digits of particular row/column).
Is there any hint from the result? |
|
deu
Posts: 69
Country : Japan | deu posted @ 2012-08-07 5:37 PM Thank you everyone for participating. 235 players participated, out of which 180 got non-zero scores. Congratulations to Thomas Snyder (all 16 puzzles, 95:54), Kota Morinishi (15 puzzles, 95:32), Tiit Vunk (15 puzzles, 110:20) and Jan Novotny (15 puzzles, 119:36) for topping this test. Kota was the fastest, but he made a mistake in one puzzle.
Here are some statistics:
- Most solved puzzle: (C1) Classic Sudoku was solved by 149 players.
- Least solved puzzle: (I10) Sum of Them was solved by 14 players.
- Puzzle with highest rating: (I8) Quad max-min has 9.33 points.
- Puzzle with lowest rating: (I2) Odd Labyrinth has 7.40 points.
- Most common wrong answer: 11 competitors sent "3619" in (I9) Coordinates Sudoku. 2 players missed bonus points by that.
I hope everyone enjoyed the test. Which was the winner for you, Classics or Innovatives? |
|
Gotroch
Posts: 83
Country : Czech Republic | Gotroch posted @ 2012-08-07 9:43 PM deu - 2012-08-07 1:37 PM Which was the winner for you, Classics or Innovatives? I allways prefer to solve (and also create ) new and interesting puzzles more than Classic puzzles (which I sometimes find boring ). But this was not the case in this test. Authors did great job with Classics puzzles here so I can say the Classics were as excellent as Innovatives in the test. My favourite was Killer - really great "10 stars" puzzle.Thanks for the test! |
|
Administrator
Country : India | |
|
neerajmehrotra
Posts: 329
Country : India | Now when the contest is over..can some one please post the step by step solution to Sum of Them
I could not even get a start |
|
prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | neerajmehrotra - 2012-08-07 10:55 PM
Now when the contest is over..can some one please post the step by step solution to Sum of Them
I could not even get a start
The start (as far as I know ) is the fact that 1 can never be in a cell with a square, and a 2 can be in such a cell only at the edges of the box, because it'd have to have 2 1s diagonally adjacent around it to make it work. This all helps in the top left box to get that 1 and 2 can't be in R1C2 and R2C1, so 3 has to be in one of them, because otherwise you can't have the sum of 2 numbers <9. So 3 is in R2C1, with 1 and 2 around it, and R1C1 has to be either 8 or 9 with R1C2 being 5 or 6. For the sum rule, it has to be 6, with 1 at R2C2 and 5 at R1C3. Similar stuff should take you through it. |
|
MellowMelon
Country : United States | Here's another way to piece together the top left box in that puzzle. The key insight is that because R1C1-3 and R2C1 are all boxed cells crammed into a corner, each is the sum of the number below and the number to the right. This tells you that R1C1 = R3C1 + 2*R2C2 + R1C4 + 4. Doesn't take much thinking to realize that the minimum value of the right expression is 9 and there's only one way to get it, which immediately allows you to fill R3C1 = 2, R2C2 = 1, R1C4 = 1, and the four boxed numbers in the top left.
Edited by MellowMelon 2012-08-07 11:19 PM
|
|
detuned
Posts: 152
Country : United Kingdom | detuned posted @ 2012-08-08 1:56 AM Yuhei Kusui - 2012-08-07 11:41 AM
As a Japanese, I'm proud that they provided an excellent set of puzzles!
BTW, I'd like to know the influence of difference in answer key: between this style (only 4 digits) and usual one (all digits of particular row/column).
Is there any hint from the result?
This is an interesting point. In the last 20 minutes I broke 3 puzzles, one of which was Quad max-min. My error came quite late in the solve, and I had 90% of the grid filled before I realised my error. It was quite a big error, and many digits in the grid were wrong, and yet when I solved the puzzle after time I compared the two grids and the digits in A, B, C & D were all correct. If I thought to opportunistically submit the key I did have during the test I'd have ended up with 23 more completely undeserved points.
Classics were my favourite, really beautiful puzzles. Innovations were also clever, but I've always thought real beauty is to be found in simplicity. The irregular was fabulous, only just surpassed by the inequality in my eyes. |
|
PuzzleScott
Posts: 42
Country : United States | (I10) Sum of Them seemed exceptionally tricky. In four careful attempts I always reached a contradiction. Attempt 5 finally solved it.
Many great puzzles. The Innovations are delightful -- I especially liked Coordinates. Inequality seems quite hard (still working on it).
|
|
KimKing
Posts: 7
Country : Malaysia | KimKing posted @ 2012-08-08 10:54 AM I request the authors to make another test next week. |
|
swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | The INNOVATIVE's were just superb i loved it. I found Classic Inequality tough as i am not getting start. Also i was able to solve 50 % of total sudokus i hope i start increasing that percentage from next test.
To respected author, one fact i would like to share i found it while solving the c4 classic sudoku i got my A,B,C,D with almost 12 cells still left to be filled. So just have look at it if it helps for the next time to choose better answer keys :) |
|
prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | swaroop2011 - 2012-08-08 12:21 PM
The INNOVATIVE's were just superb i loved it. I found Classic Inequality tough as i am not getting start. Also i was able to solve 50 % of total sudokus i hope i start increasing that percentage from next test.
To respected author, one fact i would like to share i found it while solving the c4 classic sudoku i got my A,B,C,D with almost 12 cells still left to be filled. So just have look at it if it helps for the next time to choose better answer keys :)
That happens to me on one or two puzzles in every test. Its very difficult to determine keys, there's bound to be a few that go here and there for a few individuals. |
|
swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | prasanna16391 - 2012-08-08 3:05 PM
swaroop2011 - 2012-08-08 12:21 PM
The INNOVATIVE's were just superb i loved it. I found Classic Inequality tough as i am not getting start. Also i was able to solve 50 % of total sudokus i hope i start increasing that percentage from next test.
To respected author, one fact i would like to share i found it while solving the c4 classic sudoku i got my A,B,C,D with almost 12 cells still left to be filled. So just have look at it if it helps for the next time to choose better answer keys :)
That happens to me on one or two puzzles in every test. Its very difficult to determine keys, there's bound to be a few that go here and there for a few individuals.
Hmm that is possible. as any sudoku can be solved in multiple ways. may be one of the way is such that clues (answer keys ) are obtained faster. :p |
|
PuzzleScott
Posts: 42
Country : United States | Are there other samples of these Innovatives available anywhere? (besides the Even Sandwich on p.1 of this thread). Hungry for more! :)
|
|
Administrator
Country : India | The Solution booklet also has a puzzle history (where the puzzle appeared first time) - but there are no links. |
|
Richard
Posts: 191
Country : The Netherlands | Richard posted @ 2012-08-17 4:18 PM PuzzleScott - 2012-08-09 4:45 AM
Are there other samples of these Innovatives available anywhere? (besides the Even Sandwich on p.1 of this thread). Hungry for more! :)
Well, it's only one puzzle, but today's 'friday-noon-puzzle' is an Even Sandwich Sudoku. You can find it here.
Enjoy!
I liked most of the innovatives in this test, and it's very likely that I will make some of the other variants in the future as well. I will keep you all informed about it. |
|
Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | Nice one, quite easy but really pleasant to solve; thank you Richard. Now waiting for the other puzzles you just promised to make! |
|
Richard
Posts: 191
Country : The Netherlands | Richard posted @ 2012-12-06 3:48 PM I liked most of the innovatives in this test, and it's very likely that I will make some of the other variants in the future as well. I will keep you all informed about it.
As promised earlier, I have made a few puzzles that were inspired by this nice sudoku test. Two of my favorite puzzles (Search nine sudoku and Rank sudoku ) are already included in the sudoku-advent-calender at Logic Masters Germany, two others (Clones and Between ) will appear soon.
You can read more about the advent calender and links to the puzzles in another thread in this forum.
|
Classics vs. Innovatives — LMI August Sudoku Test — 4th - 6th August