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Country : India | Details coming soon |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-09-16 10:07 AM Wacky Puzzle Mini Marathon? |
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Administrator
Country : India | Para - 2013-09-16 10:07 AM
Wacky Puzzle Mini Marathon? 50% correct (i.e. 2 out of 4 words are correct ) |
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greenhorn
Posts: 164
Country : Slovakia | Wacky Puzzle Match Maker? |
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debmohanty
Country : India | greenhorn - 2013-09-16 9:13 PM
Wacky Puzzle Match Maker? 0% Correct. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | This is like a Mastermind puzzle playing out here.
So only W and P is not decided, and we know what they can't be.
W= Winter?  |
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Administrator
Country : India |
Logic Masters India announces September Puzzle Test #2 — WPMM
Dates : 22 nd — 29 th September
Instruction Booklet & Submission : here
Authors : Gyula Slenker, Pál Madarassy & Zoltán Horváth
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kiwijam
Posts: 187
Country : New Zealand | kiwijam posted @ 2013-09-17 5:38 AM Yay! |
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kiwijam
Posts: 187
Country : New Zealand | kiwijam posted @ 2013-09-17 8:40 AM Question: In Pentomino Blokus, the pieces can be rotated and reflected, not all pieces need to be used, but each piece can only be used 1 time maximum? |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | kiwijam - 2013-09-17 8:40 AM
Question: In Pentomino Blokus, the pieces can be rotated and reflected, not all pieces need to be used, but each piece can only be used 1 time maximum?
Exactly. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Bonus StructureThe WP Mini Marathon is similar to Puzzle Marathon in many ways. So the bonus structure will be exactly same.
Details
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For any particular round
Let,
n = number of players submitting all puzzles correctly in the round within 60 minutes
B = Solving time of the best player
M = Median solving time of the n players
There are 2 components for bonus in each round.
Rank Bonus = 60 * (n + 1 - player's rank ) / n
So the best player gets 60 points as Rank bonus.
Solving Time Bonus
If a player's solving time is <= M, he will get 30 + 30 * ( player's solving time - M ) / (B - M ) ( A linear distribution between 30 and 60 between the best player and the player with median time)
If a player's solving time is > M, he will get 30 - 30 * ( player's solving time - M ) / (60 minutes - M ) ( A linear distribution between 30 and 0 between the player with median time and 60 minutes)
So the best player again gets 60 points as Solving Time Bonus.
Also, as mentioned in the IB, - All rounds will be IG (Instant Grading) enabled.
- 1.5 minutes penalty for each of first 2 wrong submissions.
- 3 minutes penalty for each subsequent wrong submission.
- Individual puzzle value becomes 80% after 60 minutes.
- All 4 rounds score will be summed for final score in the test.
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chaotic_iak
Posts: 241
Country : Indonesia | In IB, the rules of Price Tag has the following: "each placeholder becomes a digit". Does this mean every set of segments must become a digit and may not be left empty? For example, in "_1 + _9 = 10", there are two empty places. |
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chaotic_iak
Posts: 241
Country : Indonesia | Also, in Pentomino Samurai, will we get the grid in samurai fashion in the actual PB (instead of assembling them first like in the IB)? |
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amitsowani
Posts: 349
Country : India | chaotic_iak - 2013-09-18 9:06 AM
Also, in Pentomino Samurai, will we get the grid in samurai fashion in the actual PB (instead of assembling them first like in the IB)?
Th IB says that "It means that to solve the middle puzzle it is necessary to find the correct positions of outer puzzles". Identifying which corner goes where is a part of the solving process. |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | chaotic_iak - 2013-09-18 8:18 AM
In IB, the rules of Price Tag has the following: "each placeholder becomes a digit". Does this mean every set of segments must become a digit and may not be left empty? For example, in "_1 + _9 = 10", there are two empty places.
There aren't empty placeholders.
_1+_9=10 is invalid.
And don't forget that numbers cannot start with zero, so 01+09=10 is invalid, as well.
amitsowani - 2013-09-18 11:40 AM
chaotic_iak - 2013-09-18 9:06 AM
Also, in Pentomino Samurai, will we get the grid in samurai fashion in the actual PB (instead of assembling them first like in the IB)?
Th IB says that "It means that to solve the middle puzzle it is necessary to find the correct positions of outer puzzles". Identifying which corner goes where is a part of the solving process.
Amit is right.
There will be five separated grids. You can recognise the middle one, because its corners are grey. Just like in the example.
You have to build up the correct Samurai grid.
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chaotic_iak
Posts: 241
Country : Indonesia | For Pentomino Samurai, I suppose I don't have to rotate the grids?
Edited by chaotic_iak 2013-09-18 8:41 PM
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | chaotic_iak - 2013-09-18 8:40 PM
For Pentomino Samurai, I suppose I don't have to rotate the grids?
You're right. I missed this points from the IB.
The grids cannot rotated or reflected. |
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devarajand
Posts: 114
Country : India | In Pentomino Samurai is multiple solutions possible while individually solving, or individual grids also will have unique solution. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | devarajand - 2013-09-20 8:13 PM
In Pentomino Samurai is multiple solutions possible while individually solving, or individual grids also will have unique solution. The four outer puzzles have unique solutions, when solved independently. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Points tableEach round, as mentioned in IB, is worth 120 points. Here is the break up.
Round 1 - Price Tag - 3 puzzles. 30 + 40 + 50
Round 2 - Pentomino Samurai - The 4 outside puzzles are 20 points each. The central puzzle is 40 points.
Round 3 - Great Wall - 8 puzzles, each Wall puzzle is 15 points.
Round 4 - Black & White Matrix - 12 puzzles, each individual puzzle is 10 points.
Also, a quick note about Instant Grading - Each puzzle has a "Submit" button, so you can check the small puzzle's correctness before finishing the complete round.
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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ksun48
Posts: 29
Country : Canada | ksun48 posted @ 2013-09-22 8:21 AM How do we view score page for each puzzle?
Edited by ksun48 2013-09-22 8:25 AM
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Administrator
Country : India | ksun48 - 2013-09-22 8:21 AM
How do we view score page for each puzzle? The score page is not ready (yet ). |
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Administrator
Country : India | This thread is now restricted. |
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ladyleatherneck
Posts: 4
Country : United States | Where do I find the password? Thanks |
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Puzlifouk
Posts: 67
Country : France | Very pleasant contest ! I'm very proud of finishing the 1st round within 60 minutes, and very sad of having sent a wrong submission (a stupid wrong touch) on the 1st puzzle.
A point is not clear : because of my stupid mistake, I know I will have a penality of 1.5 minutes, but I never saw that I will lost 10% of the puzzle points (so my points are 27+40+50 instead of 30+40+50). Why ?
No mention of this point in the IB, neither in this thread !? |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | Puzlifouk - 2013-09-22 5:36 PM
Very pleasant contest ! I'm very proud of finishing the 1st round within 60 minutes, and very sad of having sent a wrong submission (a stupid wrong touch) on the 1st puzzle.
A point is not clear : because of my stupid mistake, I know I will have a penality of 1.5 minutes, but I never saw that I will lost 10% of the puzzle points (so my points are 27+40+50 instead of 30+40+50). Why ?
No mention of this point in the IB, neither in this thread !?
Hi, there is no points penalty for wrong submissions.
however, the test has a very difficult point system, so it can have some wrong elements. I'm sure Deb will fix it soon. No need to worry. Finally, you will get 120 points.
Zoltán |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | ladyleatherneck - 2013-09-22 5:31 PM
Where do I find the password? Thanks
If you push the start button. You will get the password for the pdf of that round.
There are 4 pdf with 4 different pssword and four start button.
Zoltán |
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ksun48
Posts: 29
Country : Canada | ksun48 posted @ 2013-09-22 6:21 PM For Great Wall, can segments be on the grid edges? |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Valezius - 2013-09-22 6:18 PM
Puzlifouk - 2013-09-22 5:36 PM
Very pleasant contest ! [restricted], and very sad of having sent a wrong submission (a stupid wrong touch) on the 1st puzzle.
A point is not clear : because of my stupid mistake, I know I will have a penality of 1.5 minutes, but I never saw that I will lost 10% of the puzzle points (so my points are 27+40+50 instead of 30+40+50). Why ?
No mention of this point in the IB, neither in this thread !?
Hi, there is no points penalty for wrong submissions.
however, the test has a very difficult point system, so it can have some wrong elements. I'm sure Deb will fix it soon. No need to worry. Finally, you will get 120 points.
Zoltán Zoltan is right. This is just a placeholder score page. It will take a while to have the official score page. The current score page is applying the logic of DTGT.
Hope you enjoy the other rounds too. |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | ksun48 - 2013-09-22 6:21 PM
For Great Wall, can segments be on the grid edges?
No. Rules from the IB:
"the whole grid consists exactly one line which starts and ends on the edge of the grid, and never goes again on the edge or on dotted line. " |
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edderiofer
Posts: 8
Country : Hong Kong | In round 4, I can't seem to resolve grids 6, 7, 10, and 11 at the same time.
Given my answer to grids 4, 8, and 12, the I-pentomino must lie at the very bottom of grid 7. However, this means (via shading a few cells in grid 6) that in grid 10, R3C10 is shaded, forcing R1C2~6 and R3~4C1 to be shaded in grid 11. It is impossible to have paths go through all of these cells, so I must conclude that the puzzle is broken. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | edderiofer - 2013-09-22 7:54 PM
In round 4, I can't seem to resolve grids [restricted]
Please note that in puzzle 7 (Pentomino blokus ), it is not necessary to use all the pentominos. (Each pentomino should be used either once or never ) |
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edderiofer
Posts: 8
Country : Hong Kong | debmohanty - 2013-09-22 3:00 PM Please note that in puzzle 7 (Pentomino blokus), it is not necessary to use all the pentominos. (Each pentomino should be used either once or never)
Well, thanks for telling me that. I would never have noticed otherwise. |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | edderiofer - 2013-09-22 7:54 PM
In round 4, I can't seem to resolve grids 6, 7, 10, and 11 at the same time.
Given my answer to grids 4, 8, and 12, the I-pentomino must lie at the very bottom of grid 7. However, this means (via shading a few cells in grid 6) that in grid 10, R3C10 is shaded, forcing R1C2~6 and R3~4C1 to be shaded in grid 11. It is impossible to have paths go through all of these cells, so I must conclude that the puzzle is broken.
I can say only two things.
The first is that some people have already solved this puzzle. So I'm pretty sure it has solution.
The second is that, maybe it can help if you read again the rules of 6,7,10,11, and look at the sample grids. |
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ksun48
Posts: 29
Country : Canada | ksun48 posted @ 2013-09-23 12:39 AM Wow, the Black and White seemed to be much harder than the other three puzzles (like it took almost 3x as long) |
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Gotroch
Posts: 83
Country : Czech Republic | Gotroch posted @ 2013-09-23 12:49 PM | What was your most favorite round? | Round 4 - Black & White Matrix | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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chaotic_iak
Posts: 241
Country : Indonesia | | What was your most favorite round? | Round 4 - Black & White Matrix | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Answer keys could have been better | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | I have a different complaint | |
The only two complaints about the PB are also the complaints that makes my perception that this test has the worst PB. No rules in PB and no numbering puzzles. No rules means one must always have the IB along, and no numbering puzzles means it gets really confusing to figure out which answer key we have just retrieved. (On a tangential note, answer keys could have been better, but that's not the main problem. ) The puzzles themselves are pretty nice. I'm not sure whether it's just my problem or indeed Round 4 is too devilish, but I'm pretty sure things are imbalanced when Rounds 1 and 3 are topped at 15 minutes something while Rounds 2 and 4 are topped at 30 minutes something. (But hey, it's still first two days. ) Well, that's all, I suppose. Also, as a closing remark, there is some kind of wonderful accomplishment when you beat Palmer (at Round 3 ) :3 |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | chaotic_iak - 2013-09-23 6:10 PM
The only two complaints about the PB are also the complaints that makes my perception that this test has the worst PB. No rules in PB and no numbering puzzles. No rules means one must always have the IB along, and no numbering puzzles means it gets really confusing to figure out which answer key we have just retrieved. (On a tangential note, answer keys could have been better, but that's not the main problem.)
The puzzles themselves are pretty nice. I'm not sure whether it's just my problem or indeed Round 4 is too devilish, but I'm pretty sure things are imbalanced when Rounds 1 and 3 are topped at 15 minutes something while Rounds 2 and 4 are topped at 30 minutes something. (But hey, it's still first two days.)
Well, that's all, I suppose. Also, as a closing remark, there is some kind of wonderful accomplishment when you beat Palmer (at Round 3) :3
Hi Ivan!
Thank you for your feedback.
I don't think that the lack of instruction means a problem. But the fact that I didn't clarify that the PB wouldn't contain instruction was a real problem, indeed.
Sorry for that.
In R1,R2 the puzzles have a number. You can find it in the tables on the top of the page.
In R3 there is only 1 puzzle, and in R4 it would be hard to add a puzzle number.
I think in R2, R3 and R4 the letters on the arrows can replace the numbering of puzzles.
About the answer keys: R2, R3 and R4 have a similar layout, so we wanted to creat a same answer key. This was the main point. It was important to us to avoid the confusions in such a complicated test structure.
And this was the best one that we could find out. Please let me know if you know any better. Don't forget that the instant grading needs a fix length or a fix sum.
Well, the balance of rounds was less important for us in this case. We didn't want to make a well-balanced competition just provide some practise puzzles. And we had two choices, we just publish these puzzles on the WPC blog or we announce a competition. We chose the 2nd alternative, and I think it was a good decision instead of the mistakes of this test.
I can't say that we know the 4th round is much harder than the others. It can be true.
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ukonet
Posts: 9
Country : Turkey | ukonet posted @ 2013-09-23 9:17 PM | What was your most favorite round? | Round 4 - Black & White Matrix | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Too few pages / too small grids | |
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MellowMelon
Country : United States | @chaotic: Indeed, good work. I had a lot of moments where I took a few minutes to solve a grid despite it being dirt simple, so I wasn't too surprised to get beaten on that one.
I'll also be surprised if any of my current 1s hold at the end of the week. I didn't completely blunder any of the rounds, but I didn't exactly hit any home runs either... |
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rvarun
Posts: 268
Country : India | rvarun posted @ 2013-09-24 10:46 PM Hi
I have a query on Round 4. It states that two puzzles will be identical in the shared edge.
Is this implies that Puzzle 1 and 2 share an edge and Puzzle 1 and 5 share an edge. Can someone clarify this rule for me. |
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Administrator
Country : India | rvarun - 2013-09-24 10:46 PM
Hi
I have a query on Round 4. It states that two puzzles will be identical in the shared edge.
Is this implies that Puzzle 1 and 2 share an edge and Puzzle 1 and 5 share an edge. Can someone clarify this rule for me. I am not sure what exactly your question is.
So puzzle 1 and puzzle 2 share an edge. Since you already have the pdf, I can say that Column 10 of puzzle 1 and column 1 of puzzle 2 should be identical. Like in the image below.
Does it help? Feel free to post if something is still not clear.
 (Shared Shading.png)Attachments ----------------  Shared Shading.png (4KB - 0 downloads) |
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rvarun
Posts: 268
Country : India | rvarun posted @ 2013-09-24 11:15 PM Thanks Admin. So similarly, Row 10 of Puzzle 1 and Row 1 of Puzzle 5 will be identical and so on.
Also I have a question in Paint it Black. I will send a PM to you as I dont feel I can post here. |
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Administrator
Country : India | rvarun - 2013-09-24 11:15 PM
Thanks Admin. So similarly, Row 10 of Puzzle 1 and Row 1 of Puzzle 5 will be identical and so on. Yes.
rvarun - 2013-09-24 11:15 PM
Also I have a question in Paint it Black. I will send a PM to you as I dont feel I can post here. Replied your PM. |
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Spheniscine
Posts: 1
Country : Malaysia | @rvarun: Yes.
edit: Ninja'd
Edited by Spheniscine 2013-09-25 12:14 AM
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FoxFireX
Posts: 35
Country : United States | Enjoyed the puzzles this time around, but definitely felt that round 4 was out of step with the first three. Extremely cool idea and execution, but I ended up spending longer on round 4 than I did on the first three rounds combined. It was also a little difficult to figure out how to progress on some of the puzzles, since you had to apply adjoining logic to find a solution that met all the requirements, but I eventually got there. Used a lot more trial and error than I would like, but glad to have had the chance to tackle that beast. |
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achan1058
Posts: 80
Country : Canada | | What was your most favorite round? | Round 4 - Black & White Matrix | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
I got owned by Pata pretty hard. I did not realize that the key squares are counted as white squares. The difficulty of the test seems to vary widely for me though. Round 1 and 3 took me ~1/2 hour, while Round 2 and 4 took me over an hour, and that's not including the botch I have with Pata. |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2013-09-25 7:21 PM The rank bonus seems to cause a big discrepancy in bonus values for rounds with fewer finishers (especially round 4 currently). Shouldn't the bonus just top off from 60 (1st 60, 2nd 59 etc.) unless there are more than 60 finishers? |
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auroux
Posts: 145
Country : France | auroux posted @ 2013-09-26 1:42 AM The rounds were definitely of very different difficulty levels -- all were a lot of fun, I think most people will agree that #2 and especially #4 were harder than #1 and #3. This is par for the course in WPC and all the puzzles were really well designed (though I really played #4 poorly and then got close to not having enough time to finish it before a meeting scheduled for 75 minutes after my start time...). But I do tend to agree with Bram and others that this seems to be to make the bonuses for rounds 2 and 4 quite sensitive to small variations in solving time or even rank. Perhaps this will go away once more people complete all rounds. Or else, it might be something to watch for in future such mini-marathons -- allotting different amount of times to the different rounds might have been better. -- Denis |
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MarkFox
Posts: 5
Country : United States | MarkFox posted @ 2013-09-26 1:45 AM | What was your most favorite round? | Round 3 - Great Wall | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Mostly perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
I always hurt my own performance by not sufficiently poring over the rules & examples before I begin. In this case, I was ultimately able to make the correct interpretation of all the puzzle rules, but in a few instances there were some important subtleties that I didn't notice at first. For instance, in round four, it took me a minute to notice the given ship sizes on the far side of the sheet from puzzle 1. I also got very for down a wrong path because I presumed that pentomino types could not be repeated in puzzle 8. |
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detuned
Posts: 152
Country : United Kingdom | detuned posted @ 2013-09-26 2:39 AM The bonus system seems to be a good attempt to try and normalise the scores of otherwise incomparable scores to the rather arbitrarily chosen value of 60 minutes. It doesn't really make any account for going over 60 minutes so I suppose the puzzles should be so that the majority of solvers can actually finish them within the arbitrarily chosen time limit.
I would suggest a fairer thing to do would be to let this arbitrary time value vary for each puzzle (I guess something in the ratio of roughly 1:2:1:3 for this set ), except this seems unnecessarily complicated, and you'd still have to pick an arbitrary time value. I suppose having a set of target times to try and beat is quite fun, but fairly working out what these target times should be a priori would appear to be a challenge to get right (although I'd hope that testing for this set would at least have suggested that 60 minutes for round 4 was going to cause problems... )
And if you can't have the target time a priori, I'm not sure why you would choose to normalise scores based upon an arbitrary time when you could more simply normalise the rank-time curves. You could still give people an (arbitrary and effectively nominal ) points score for completing the puzzles and then base bonuses on the normalised rank-time curve.
As a separate issue, I would also argue that any sort of normalisation that uses #1 as a pivot point introduces unnecessary volatility and inaccuracy - see http://wpc-2013.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/around-world-in-80-puzzles-s... for an analysis.
Finally, the penalty multiplier for going over 60 minutes seems completely unnecessary, and worse quite demoralising, given that you are already rewarding people for going under 60 minutes. There is already a penalty, relatively speaking! I'd highly recommend getting rid of this multiplier.
The puzzle set was quite entertaining!
Edited by detuned 2013-09-26 3:14 AM
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detuned
Posts: 152
Country : United Kingdom | detuned posted @ 2013-09-26 2:41 AM also, round 4 would have been better served as 2 lots of 3x2 arrays. You already had linked puzzles over multiple pages for round 2! |
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MarkFox
Posts: 5
Country : United States | MarkFox posted @ 2013-09-26 4:01 AM I see now that pentominoes can not be repeated, so perhaps my confusion was in regard to not having to use all the types. Anyway, I was definitely confused, and now I'm meta-confused.  I also just went back and tackled the combination puzzle for Round 2... it was very difficult for me but I'm happy to have finished the whole test, however slowly. |
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auroux
Posts: 145
Country : France | auroux posted @ 2013-09-26 4:22 AM Actually on part 4 the penalty multiplier for submitting over 60 minutes works reasonably well, and arguably it could have been stricter. Given that almost no one completes this round in under 60 minutes, if there were no penalty multiplier everyone who's persistent enough would get the same score (120 points) (except for the happy few who finished under 60 minutes and got a bonus). Finishing the whole set in 61 minutes or in 5 hours would get you the same score. Instead, right now someone who finishes 8 of the 12 puzzles under 60 minutes does get ever slightly more points than someone who only finishes 4 of the 12 under 60 minutes, and in turn that person gets more than someone who didn't finish a single puzzle in 60 minutes.
Denis |
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AndreyBogdanov
Posts: 44
Country : Russia | Where I could claim for points?
In the Great Wall puzzle answer key says "enter the numbers from left to right". So did I for row "I" (I started from this corner) and got "wrong mark". Then I changed answer according to arrow direction and it was accepted.
Now the penalty mark is shown in the table. I don't know how it really affects on points, but think there is some lack of them.
In any case I like the construction of this puzzle, but it seems to be too easy. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | AndreyBogdanov - 2013-09-26 11:07 AM
Where I could claim for points?
In the Great Wall puzzle answer key says "enter the numbers from left to right". So did I for row "I" ([restricted]) and got "wrong mark". Then I changed answer according to arrow direction and it was accepted.
Now the penalty mark is shown in the table. I don't know how it really affects on points, but think there is some lack of them.
In any case I like the construction of this puzzle, [restricted]. Will check what is missing, and remove penalty if something is wrong at our end.
You can "Claim No penalty" from Submissions tab.
ETA : In your first answer, "I" is as "Left to right", but "J" is "bottom to top, in the direction of arrow". This is not listed as a valid answer.
In your second try, you entered both I&J as per the direction of the arrow. We allow that.
If you enter both I&J, as per the IB you get points. If you enter both as per direction of arrow, you still get points. If you swap I and J, you also get points.
Other combinations are not allowed. Edited by debmohanty 2013-09-26 11:22 AM
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AndreyBogdanov
Posts: 44
Country : Russia | debmohanty - 2013-09-26 9:14 AM
If you enter both I&J, as per the IB you get points. If you enter both as per direction of arrow, you still get points. If you swap I and J, you also get points.
Other combinations are not allowed. Thanks a lot for clarification. I've got this. |
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devarajand
Posts: 114
Country : India | | What was your most favorite round? | Round 3 - Great Wall | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Mostly perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2013-09-27 3:55 AM For the moment, I greatly prefer the TVC scoring system to the one here :) Failing to mark off one clue left a much much harder puzzle than I wanted to finish.
Thanks for the puzzles.
Edited by motris 2013-09-27 3:59 AM
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chaotic_iak
Posts: 241
Country : Indonesia | At the moment, Para is 780.8 and I am 780.6. Seems like we're going for a wild race now. *opens betting*
But seriously. Either not all the masters have participated yet, or I somehow shot much higher now, with me still fighting for Top 5.
@motris: I can't see why leaving a clue unmarked makes the puzzle difficult?
Edited by chaotic_iak 2013-09-27 7:55 AM
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motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2013-09-27 8:05 AM @chaotic_iak: I mean I didn't put its logic into the puzzle by not crossing out one segment (row 3 middle) and then never went back to seeing it as useful. Effectively I was blind to some info, like I was solving a puzzle with fewer clues but it was totally my fault.
Edited by motris 2013-09-27 8:10 AM
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devarajand
Posts: 114
Country : India | I like the format of the test most. Usually once the test time is over I used to forget about it. Here the extended time made me to solve more puzzles. I hope this kind of a format will make more people try to solve the puzzles. Any how a great experience. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | hey can some one tell me in price tag
do numbers carry forward
i mean what if units places add up to like 3+5+5 = 13 where should 1 go into tens place or neglect it ? |
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Administrator
Country : India | Are you asking should 3+5+5 be 13 or 3? |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | yes got it now :)
Edited by swaroop2011 2013-09-27 10:33 AM
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AndreyBogdanov
Posts: 44
Country : Russia | | What was your most favorite round? | Round 2 - Pentominos Samurai | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Mostly perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Too few pages / too small grids | |
The only one remark for the contest - some grids are too small. But in any case I really enjoyed it. |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-09-28 4:59 AM | What was your most favorite round? | Round 4 - Black & White Matrix | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Very skewed | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-09-28 1:41 PM | What was your most favorite round? | Round 4 - Black & White Matrix | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Mostly perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
(1 ) Penalties: After looking at the results, it is clear that the penalty for wrong submisions should have been more severe (and should have point penalty also ). When 3 of the top 4 (as of now ) have penalties, it means something is wrong. (2 ) Bonus structure: My personal experience is that R1 and R3 were easier as compared to the other rounds. So, those who did well in R2 and R4 should have got more bonus. But the reality was different. If I look at the 10th place bonus, it is 105 and 103 for R1 and R3 respectively, while it is 79 and 48 for R2 and R4. Have we got it right? (3 ) Puzzles: Very good mix of puzzles, specially the R4 puzzles. |
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joshuazucker
Posts: 31
Country : United States | | What was your most favorite round? | Round 3 - Great Wall | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Too few pages / too small grids | |
I was annoyed that the instructions weren't printed on the puzzle pages. It meant a lot of flipping around for me to check on rules, especially because of the types (like Lakes ) that were similar to puzzles I'm used to solving. It would have been nice to know that some rounds were much longer than others -- at least, it seemed that way to me, and my ranking didn't vary that much. I loved the Great Wall theme and the execution was quite nice there too. The linked black/white puzzles was also a neat idea, but I had a hard time finding a reasonable solving path (probably because I'm too unfamiliar with some of these types ). I did a bunch of solving by intuition more than by logic -- the instant grading was a huge help to get that confirmation that my solutions were the right ones! The solving paths on the price tags and pentominoes were quite nice. Overall I had tons of fun. Thanks to the authors and to LMI for hosting! |
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joshuazucker
Posts: 31
Country : United States | Also I'm still seeing tons of "restricted post" here even though I am logged in and have finished all four rounds. Weird. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | WPMM is over. MellowMelon, xevs and motris take the top 3 positions.
In individual rounds, murat has the best time in Price Tag, while motris has best time in all other rounds.
149 players completed Price Tag in 60 minutes. The corresponding numbers are 46, 115, 21 for Pentomino Samurai, Great Wall and B&W Matrix. As noted by most, the four rounds were not equally matched, with Matrix and Pentomino being much harder than the other two. So the borrowed bonus mechanism from Marathon didn't work best here. I will have to admit that I didn't focus enough on the bonus mechanism, mainly trying to have this contest for practice for WPC. It is really difficult to normalize the rounds when they are not close to each other, in terms of difficulty.
Its been a pleasure to host WPMM and I'm sure everyone is thankful to the puzzle authors for putting in the effort to provide a practice test before the WPC.
Thank you everyone for participating.
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An LMI player
| An LMI player posted @ 2013-09-30 11:07 AM | What was your most favorite round? | Round 4 - Black & White Matrix | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Mostly perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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tamz29
Posts: 225
Country : Thailand | tamz29 posted @ 2013-09-30 12:44 PM I had a lot of trouble with puzzle 4. Having to compete at 3am is already a problem but I think its also because of the IB/PB.
I solved the top right puzzle and end up with the same contradiction over and over, only to find out that I have been solving it as a Corral and not
Paint it Black.
And when I do solve the Corral, I convinced myself that it had multiple solutions.
I had to redownload the IB to see "black cells cannot surround white cells" -- is this rule usually in Corral?
Also half way through Pata, I saw the "1" clue and was like "whattt???"
I could be wrong, but isn't Pata where the clue works for both black cells and white cells?
Again, had to refer back to the IB and completely re-erase the whole puzzle.
To make matters worse, I also couldn't prove to myself how the Pentomino Blokus isn't broken.
Then I saw "some pentominoes". Ugh.
Its all my fault, but when you use familiar names of puzzles - I'm sure there are others who just don't read the IB that carefully.
Once my hour was up I just went to bed.
I really enjoy Price Tag and the first Pentomino Samurai (the one with a lot of 4s). Just beautiful. |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | tamz29 - 2013-09-30 12:44 PM
And when I do solve the Corral, I convinced myself that it had multiple solutions.
I had to redownload the IB to see "black cells cannot surround white cells" -- is this rule usually in Corral?
Also half way through Pata, I saw the "1" clue and was like "whattt???"
I could be wrong, but isn't Pata where the clue works for both black cells and white cells?
Again, had to refer back to the IB and completely re-erase the whole puzzle.
I usually make the distinction by saying Corral for the Nikoli loop type and Coral for the type used here which is also quite common. Some others use the distinction of Cave and Corral respectively. But for these rules, with the outside clues, it is always that black cells cannot surround white cells, as far as I know.
Pata : The one you're referring to is probably Tapa Clones (see TVC XIV IB to confirm ), and Pata has always been as the rules are here.
I know some people might not usually read the IB carefully, but when you have 12 connected puzzles, its best to read everything I think :P |
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chaotic_iak
Posts: 241
Country : Indonesia | tamz29 - 2013-09-30 1:44 PM
I had to redownload the IB to see "black cells cannot surround white cells" -- is this rule usually in Corral?
I believe this puzzle is called Coral; Corral is the one with numbers inside the grid. That's one thing about puzzle names. Not sure though. In Corral, I know that the original version has a loop, so it's impossible to have white area enclosed inside a black area as the result will not be a loop.
I could be wrong, but isn't Pata where the clue works for both black cells and white cells?
You mistaken Pata for Tapa Clones :3 Don't worry, I also mistaken Windows' black cells as simply Tapa wall and not Corral.
To make matters worse, I also couldn't prove to myself how the Pentomino Blokus isn't broken.
Then I saw "some pentominoes". Ugh.
To tell the truth, I also had the same problem, although I kept the IB and quickly checked it when I saw it's impossible to have all pentominoes.
Next up. Congratulations for the winners. Also congratulations for Para that pushed me down again (or more precisely I blame others that made Para's position better :P ), since I had been watching the positions of me and Para over time and I once won for like two days or so. Congratulations for murat, which even though he (? ) is 31st, but he scores rank 1 in Round 1; congratulations for motris that scores rank 1 in everything else; congratulations for MellowMelon for topping the test as usual even though there's a slip up in Round 3 (you know MellowMelon has a slip up when an average (okay above than average but still not a master ) solver like me beats his score :/ ) and without holding any rank 1's (even though he has three rank 2 :P ). Edited by chaotic_iak 2013-09-30 7:49 PM
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RALehrer
Posts: 31
Country : United States | | What was your most favorite round? | Round 4 - Black & White Matrix | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? | Perfect answer keys | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Too few pages / too small grids | |
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MellowMelon
Country : United States | @chaotic: With that rank and that company, it wasn't an average performance. You should be proud of yourself.
Regarding the bonus structure, it is true it had room to improve. Though, there is the somewhat appropriate distinction of having captured the feel of WPC playoffs (it puts the WP in WPMM!), where a top solver's hangup on one puzzle let someone else get ahead, and I did manage to get the lowest total time somehow. That said, I'm not sure how many other metrics besides the used bonus structure and total time would have put me ahead of motris's impressive triple 1s. I seem to be 2 for 2 on getting lucky with Marathon scoring systems this year...
Since it seems like no one put it down as their favorite, I did think the initial steps of the price tag puzzles were really nice; they just got a bit too arithmetic heavy when you needed to finish them out and ran out of row/column clues to use. |
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kiwijam
Posts: 187
Country : New Zealand | kiwijam posted @ 2013-10-01 3:45 AM I'll add my thanks to the authors, the puzzles themselves were great!
As Zoltan mentioned earlier these were spare puzzles that could have just been published in a blog, but by making them into a little contest we all enjoyed them more (ignoring the scoring system). |
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auroux
Posts: 145
Country : France | auroux posted @ 2013-10-01 10:08 AM Yes, this was a lot of fun! I really enjoyed both the puzzles (very well designed) and the general format of the contest. (Though ideally the rounds would have nominal durations more commensurate to the time it takes to complete them). I hope we can see more such mini-marathons in the future.
Denis |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | Hello everybody!
The competition finished some days ago, but I didn' have too much time nowadays.
First of all, thank you for the LMI that we could organize this event. Especially for Deb who supported the idea from the first moment. And he had lots of work with the competition sides, scoring page etc.
Next, there were 3 puzzlemakers of the WPMM, but the rest group also provide valueable support.
Zoltán Németh 's written the rules of the puzzles.
Zoltán Gyimesi checked the puzzles, and György István was my contact with the host of WSC/WPC.
Thank you all of them.
Congratulations to the top finishers.
Mellowmelon, xevs and motris.
19 solver could solve all four round with maximum points.
But the bonus points have a big influence, so they aren't the first 19 finishers.
I think this can happen on the WPC, as wiell.
Then the difficulty of rounds are different on WPC. Some rounds are finishable, in others the best result can be only 70%.
For an online competition it is important that the different rounds have almost same difficulty. But this never happen on WPCs.
Otherwise, after the first Marathon there were a long debate about the optimal point system. So I thought it could work well in this case without any change.
Now that the IB has been published I would like to sharesome thoughts about these puzzles.
R1: I think this is a really nice puzzle type. We didn't want to make a full round of Price tag on the WPC , t will appear just in the Digital round and in the Final.
But I wanted to make a more simple round, because R2,R3 and R4 have really complicated rules.
R2: This was a practise puzzle for the Weakest link team round. I wanted to represent the working of these Samurai puzzles. I hope it was succesfull through an enjoyable puzzle :)
R3: This round has a Chinese theme. But the puzzle type won't be too important on WPC. Just like Price tag.
R4: Finally this puzzle were made as an example for Part8. So it was the most important round on this competition. I hope after this practise puzzle more player will achive a good result in this round. Thank you for Pál Madarassy for this great sample. (And he's the author of competition puzzle, too.) Accrding to the votes this was the favourite round.
Finally, thank you for everybody who interested in for the event. And good luck to everybody in China.
Best, Zoltán |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | MellowMelon - 2013-10-01 2:52 AM
Since it seems like no one put it down as their favorite, I did think the initial steps of the price tag puzzles were really nice; they just got a bit too arithmetic heavy when you needed to finish them out and ran out of row/column clues to use.
Then a good news for you that in the finals you can solve this puzzle type without the arithmetic part : ) |