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Administrator
   
Country : India | Logic Masters India announces June Sudoku Test — L O G I D O K U
Authors : ZUZKA HROMCOVÁ (zuziik ) & MATÚŠ DEMIGER (greenhorn )
Dates : 18th and 19th June
Length : 123 minutes
IB and Submission Link : here
Sudokus in this test will based on well known 'logic puzzles' - Battleship Sudoku
- Domino Sudoku
- Easy As ABC Sudoku
- Fence Sudoku
- Japanese Sums Sudoku
| - Kakuro Sudoku
- Kropki Sudoku
- Pairs Sudoku
- Skyscrapers Sudoku
- Tapa Sudoku
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Each type will be represented by a 6X6 grid and a 9X9 grid.
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | One question on the bonus: The second time bonus (1 point) is applicable if someone solves all 10 big sudokus. Is this bonus from the time the tenth sudoku is correctly submitted?
What will be the time bonus in these cases:
(a) Player X completes 10 big sudokus in 110 minutes and then does not solve anything.
(b) Player Y completes 10 big sudokus in 110 minutes, then does an incorrect submission at 122 minutes
(c) Player Z completes 10 big sudokus in 110 minutes, then does another (small sudoku) correct submission at 121 minutes |
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debmohanty
Country : India | I hadn't thought about this in details, but I can see problems with this bonus.
Will discuss with Matus and finalize. |
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Neeraj
Posts: 12
Country : India | Neeraj posted @ 2011-06-13 7:02 PM hey there is some problem with the link.....
It is getting redirected to LMI May Sudoku Test.. |
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harmeet
Posts: 87
Country : India | harmeet posted @ 2011-06-13 7:10 PM |
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debmohanty
Country : India | rakesh_rai - 2011-06-13 1:17 PM
One question on the bonus: The second time bonus (1 point) is applicable if someone solves all 10 big sudokus. Is this bonus from the time the tenth sudoku is correctly submitted?
What will be the time bonus in these cases:
(a) Player X completes 10 big sudokus in 110 minutes and then does not solve anything.
(b) Player Y completes 10 big sudokus in 110 minutes, then does an incorrect submission at 122 minutes
(c) Player Z completes 10 big sudokus in 110 minutes, then does another (small sudoku) correct submission at 121 minutes
We've decided to get rid of the "second time bonus (1 point if all 10 big Sudokus are correct)".
Updated IB is uploaded.
Also, the points for Kropki (Small ) is reduced. |
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zalak
Posts: 23
Country : India | zalak posted @ 2011-06-13 11:35 PM In the Battleship Sudoku, can we have the same battleship at multiple location? Am I missing a rule?
Not sure if I am making myself clear, so attaching a picture.
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RJH0723
Posts: 13
Country : United States | RJH0723 posted @ 2011-06-14 4:08 AM I think regular battleships rules apply to this puzzle. In all three of your other possible placements, the 2,3 battleship would be touching another battleship. In battleship, no ships may touch, even diagonally. |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2011-06-14 10:45 AM zalak - 2011-06-13 11:35 PM
In the Battleship Sudoku, can we have the same battleship at multiple location? Am I missing a rule?
Not sure if I am making myself clear, so attaching a picture.
As mentioned in previous post, the ships cannot touch each other, not even diagonally. And also, the numbers given outside the grid indicate the number of cells with ship in the corresponding row/column. In other words, standard Battleship rules apply.
You will find one example/puzzle of 6x6 Battleship Sudoku in Speed Sixes: http://www.logicmastersindia.com/lmitests/?test=M201006Edited by Rohan Rao 2011-06-14 10:51 AM
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Will LOGIDOKU have an online interface also or will it be only pdf based? I can see that some of the puzzles (like fence sudoku) may prove to be difficult to solve using online interface. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | rakesh_rai - 2011-06-14 6:17 PM
Will LOGIDOKU have an online interface also or will it be only pdf based? I can see that some of the puzzles (like fence sudoku) may prove to be difficult to solve using online interface. Apart from Fence Sudoku, some other variants will be difficult to solve with the basic online frame work we have (Tapa, Pairs, Japanese Sums )
So we are not going to have online for this test as well.
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SKnight
Posts: 25
Country : United States | SKnight posted @ 2011-06-15 6:18 PM In the Kakuro Sudoku example, there are a couple of issues.
First, the "19" in row 4 should pretty clearly be a "17".
Also, even assuming that fix, there are three different solutions, I think. The 3's and 5's in rows 5/7 could be swapped without affecting the sums, and there's a third solution where you swap the 2 and 3 in the last column and then adjust 2's, 3's and 5's accordingly.
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debmohanty
Country : India | Yes, the sum of 19 needs to be corrected in the example.
Regarding 3 and 5 being exchangable : This is not allowed since digits can't repeat in rows / columns / outlined regions. |
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SKnight
Posts: 25
Country : United States | SKnight posted @ 2011-06-16 2:51 AM debmohanty - 2011-06-15 9:42 AM
Yes, the sum of 19 needs to be corrected in the example.
Regarding 3 and 5 being exchangable : This is not allowed since digits can't repeat in rows / columns / outlined regions.
Um... maybe I'm being dense here, but if you swap both pairs, how do they repeat?
3 5
5 3
vs
5 3
3 5
???
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-06-16 3:06 AM SKnight - 2011-06-16 2:51 AM
debmohanty - 2011-06-15 9:42 AM
Yes, the sum of 19 needs to be corrected in the example.
Regarding 3 and 5 being exchangable : This is not allowed since digits can't repeat in rows / columns / outlined regions.
Um... maybe I'm being dense here, but if you swap both pairs, how do they repeat?
3 5
5 3
vs
5 3
3 5
???
They repeat in the outlined (irregular ) regions if you swap both pairs 
Fred |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | KAKURO SUDOKU
1 ) Apart from that printing mistake of 19 in row 4 which should have been 17 as mentioned earlier, i am getting multiple solution.
other than what given in the solution i am getting different solution. here by i am attaching a photo of it.
i am not able to find any mistake in it please check it out.
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 3:13 PM
KAKURO SUDOKU
1) Apart from that printing mistake of 19 in row 4 which should have been 17 as mentioned earlier, i am getting multiple solution.other than what given in the solution i am getting different solution. here by i am attaching a photo of it.
i am not able to find any mistake in it please check it out.
Look at the first two columns...lot of numbers are repeating. |
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harmeet
Posts: 87
Country : India | harmeet posted @ 2011-06-16 3:26 PM Swaroop, you've two 4's and two 2's in the first column for e.g. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | i thought ki the row and column meant between two black cells,
ok now it is clear. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Swaroop and others, please remember that this is not a standard Kakuro puzzle. Digits can NOT be repeated across rows / columns / outlined regions.
This puzzle is also known are 'Sudo-Kuro'
Here are one more example from mock6
Also, see Rohan's blog for 2 more puzzles from Sudoku Cup 1.
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | 1 )SKYSCRAPERS SUDOKU
can anybody tell me the mistake in this image now, here too i am getting same problem of multiple solution.
2 ) can any body help out with how to start the BATTLESHIP SUDOKU, i am not getting any hint.
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Administrator
Country : India | swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 3:43 PM
1)SKYSCRAPERS SUDOKU
can anybody tell me the mistake in this image now, here too i am getting same problem of multiple solution.
You've ignored the hint 5 at bottom of column 6. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | ok got it again did very silly mistake. i think now i should improve upon this. thanks .
what about BATTLESHIP SUDOKU? |
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Administrator
Country : India | swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 3:50 PM
ok got it again did very silly mistake. i think now i should improve upon this. thanks .
what about BATTLESHIP SUDOKU?
In Battleship Sudoku, you have to remember that the given digits can't be part of ships (i.e. they are like Water cells in standard Battleships puzzle )
Considering that, it is easy to figure that the 1X3 ship can lie horizontally in row6. It can't lie vertically in Col1 or Col3 (then it is not possible to satisfy Col2 ).
So, you get 4 at R6C2.
From that it should be easy to determine that the 1X2 ships will be in R1C2C3 and R3R4C1. You should be able to solve it after that.
Apart from the link Rohan mentioned, you should be able get 9X9 Battleship Sudokus from motris' blog
See - http://motris.livejournal.com/79580.html, http://motris.livejournal.com/18608.html,... http://motris.livejournal.com/79580.html
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | any hints for
JAPANESE SUMS SUDOKU - not able to start it. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | swaroop2011 - 2011-06-16 4:27 PM
any hints for JAPANESE SUMS SUDOKU - not able to start it.
Look at column 5 and/or row 5. hints are obvious, you can get started. Edited by rakesh_rai 2011-06-16 4:37 PM
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | i started with that but i only was able to get two numbers 3 and 2 in row 5 and only number '3' in column 5.
other numbers 2 and 5 of column 5 have many possibities(in respect of position as well as numbers used)
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Administrator
Country : India | You also have start marking cells which are black.
There are many openings in this example (you get a 2 sixes at R6C2, R2C6), spend some more time on the example, and you should be able to do it. |
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Administrator
Country : India | It is also useful to solve the basic puzzle type (Japanese sums in this case) first before attacking Japanese Sums + Sudoku. |
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-06-16 5:10 PM Administrator - 2011-06-16 3:40 PM
Also, see Rohan's blog for 2 more puzzles from Sudoku Cup 1.
Here is another sudokuro that I've just created (I've not time to post on my blog right now ):
Fred
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SKnight
Posts: 25
Country : United States | SKnight posted @ 2011-06-16 7:50 PM They repeat in the outlined (irregular) regions if you swap both pairs
Ah! Got it. The outlined regions were a little subtle -- didn't really notice them.
I'm glad I asked -- now I know to look for them on the real test.
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DreamRose311
Posts: 24
Country : United States | Hmmm, does anyone else think this should affect the Sudoku ratings AND and the puzzle ratings? Hehe... This looks like a lot of fun, can't wait! |
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rob
Posts: 170
Country : Germany | rob posted @ 2011-06-17 2:42 PM After solving the puzzles in the instructions booklet, I'm looking forward to this a lot. The sample puzzles were very well done, and some were really tricky. So I think we can expect some beautiful puzzles, and fear some very difficult ones. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | DreamRose311 - 2011-06-17 1:15 AM
Hmmm, does anyone else think this should affect the Sudoku ratings AND and the puzzle ratings?...
You do have a point...puzzle experts definitely have some advantage in this test. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | rakesh_rai - 2011-06-17 4:12 PM
You do have a point...puzzle experts definitely have some advantage in this test.
We had a very similar mock16 last year. While the competition has changed considerably at LMI since then, the results of mock16 suggested that 'puzzle experts' don't really have much advantage. Having solved couple of actual puzzles from the test, I think the 'Sudoku part' is as dominant as in other Sudoku tests. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Password protected booklet uploaded. It has 10 pages, each page has one 6X6 and one 9X9 of the same type. |
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Administrator
Country : India | LOGIDOKU has started. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Thanks to the authors. Nice collection of sudokuzzles and puzzledokus - of varying complexities. |
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aj0816
Posts: 1
Country : Germany | aj0816 posted @ 2011-06-18 6:08 PM Thank you very much for the nice puzzles!
Unfortunally I made a stupid mistake, and wrote my solution for the Kakuro-Sudoku (small and big) in the answer field for the japanese sums.
Is there a possibility of getting the points anyway? Would be great! |
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Administrator
Country : India | aj0816 - 2011-06-18 6:08 PM
Thank you very much for the nice puzzles!
Unfortunally I made a stupid mistake, and wrote my solution for the Kakuro-Sudoku (small and big) in the answer field for the japanese sums.
Is there a possibility of getting the points anyway? Would be great! You should see the credits for Kakuro-Sudoku puzzles now. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | thanks to the authors.
nice set of puzzles.
enjoyed a lot.
the big one's are excellent.
hope to improve on it in future. |
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neerajmehrotra
Posts: 329
Country : India | Thanks a lot to organisers and authors for an excellent set of mind boggling sudokus...
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rvarun
Posts: 268
Country : India | rvarun posted @ 2011-06-19 12:10 PM I m getting multiple solutions for Kropki small |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | you must be doing some mistake.there is only one solution possible. detailed clarification can be done once the test is over |
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Administrator
Country : India | Thanks Swaroop for clarifying.
rvarun,
1) if you are getting multiple solutions (which I believe is impossible), please submit any of your answers.
2) don't post messages like 'there are multiple solutions or there are no solutions' before you are absolutely certain. It doesn't help anybody, rather it creates confusion. |
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Tejal Phatak
Posts: 81
Country : India | I have entered '9' instead of '1' in the big Fence Sudoku. Any chance of getting the points for it? :| |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2011-06-19 5:30 PM There were some nice puzzles. I enjoyed the test. Solved a little less than I had hoped. Made a mistake in one of the puzzles, which turned out to not be one, I just missed how it could work so started over for nothing.
I switched the column and row entry for the Big Japanese Sums sudoku. Not really sure why. I was being careful with the answer keys. My other mistake was just sloppiness because of having to draw lines through the grid.
Edited by Para 2011-06-19 5:43 PM
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Administrator
Country : India | All rows/columns swaps are considered as valid answers. There is no automatic check on that, but eventually everyone making that kind of swap will get points. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Tejal Phatak - 2011-06-19 4:04 PM
I have entered '9' instead of '1' in the big Fence Sudoku. Any chance of getting the points for it? :|
Very strange typo indeed. As discussed after Fillomino-Fillia, you get 80% of the puzzle points. |
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puzzlemad
Posts: 28
Country : United Kingdom | A lovely set of puzzles. Thank you very much for setting and organising this. I've made a silly typo on the large tapa - putting an 8 instead of the given 9. Can I be credited with this please? Thanks again. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Hi Liane, we haven't given points to any single digits typos (except in Tejal's case).
We probably need everyone's suggestion on how to deal with single digit typos, there are way too many in the submissions, in this test and also in previous tests.
As I see it, they can be a typo or a solving error. But to determine what kind of error it is a too difficult, and may not be possible in certain cases.
So, as of now, all Single digit typos get 0 points. It will be nice to come up some suggestion to deal with these. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Congratulations to Nikola for winning LOGIDOKU by a huge margin. He had very similar results in SPEED Sixes in last June.
Misko and uvo are very close to each other ( and to several other participants ), and are separated by 80 seconds. They complete the podium.
Among Indian players, Rohan stands at 11 th with a very impressive performance.
Thank you everyone for participating. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | puzzlemad - 2011-06-20 4:43 AM
A lovely set of puzzles. Thank you very much for setting and organising this. I've made a silly typo on the large tapa - putting an 8 instead of the given 9. Can I be credited with this please? Thanks again.
The typo is on the given hint. So, you get points. Sorry to have overlooked earlier. |
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deu
Posts: 69
Country : Japan | deu posted @ 2011-06-20 10:00 AM Thanks for a great contest and congratulations to Nikola! There are many good Sudokus combined with other logical puzzle. My favourite puzzles in this test are Japanese Sums (bottom ), Pairs (both ) and Tapa (bottom ).
It is regrettable that I broke 6 puzzles and wasted a lot of time to fix them. Moreover, I could not send the correct solution of Skyscrapers (bottom ) by 1 second. I filled 16 cells 45 seconds before the end of the test and sent one of 2 possible solutions. I continued solving and found that my "solution" was wrong and swapped two digits in the answer form. But, when I was moving my mouse to "Submit" button, contest has ended.
If "single digit typo" is allowed, I had the option to enter the same digit twice intentionally to earn points. In Japanese Number Place Championship, competitors are required to send 4 digits in shaded cells (see here). If carefully chosen by authors, I think 4 cells are enough to judge whether each competitor solved the puzzle or not. This will evidently decrease the possibility of typos, so this is my suggestion. Edited by deu 2011-06-20 10:09 AM
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debmohanty
Country : India | deu - 2011-06-20 10:00 AM
If "single digit typo" is allowed, I had the option to enter the same digit twice intentionally to earn points. In Japanese Number Place Championship, competitors are required to send 4 digits in shaded cells (see here). If carefully chosen by authors, I think 4 cells are enough to judge whether each competitor solved the puzzle or not. This will evidently decrease the possibility of typos, so this is my suggestion.
Yes, judging "single digit typo" is indeed difficult, and that is precisely the reason why we haven't given any points to them in this test (and in earlier Sudoku tests ).
Entering just 4 digits (instead of 2 rows/columns ) indeed will be a great step forward to eliminate typos. However, the authors have to be extremely careful in marking the cells. I am not sure if we can do it all Sudoku tests, but if authors can confidently mark 4 cells, we can try it out. |
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Nikola
Posts: 103
Country : Serbia | Nikola posted @ 2011-06-20 12:47 PM Thanks, but I am still a little surprised that no one else managed to solve all puzzles. The surprise was the greater because I lost a lot of time on the big Japanese Sums. I took a number in a black box and added it to the sum in the third column. At that moment I thought: "Oh no, not again." Fortunately, I "saw" a picture of the heart and it helped me to quickly finish the puzzle.
Deb is well observed, it is possible that the June's sun and sudoku miniatures have a positive effects on my brain. However, I'll try not to wait June 2012th for the next victory.
Many thanks to the authors! I liked the puzzles very much, especially Pairs and Tapa.
Nikola |
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rob
Posts: 170
Country : Germany | rob posted @ 2011-06-20 1:00 PM Thanks for the nice test! I did quite well for a Sudoku contest, but then I felt I spent more time on the non-Sudoku-logic than what staring at Sudokus usually involves for me. But maybe some of the puzzles would have been easier with better Sudoku skills? I wasted a lot of time first breaking the hard Pairs and then failing to finish the hard Skyscraper in time.
I particularly liked the Pairs and Tapa variations. The Tapa one is simple enough, and feels like a far more interesting variant in the spirit of even-odd-Sudoku. I'm glad I skipped the hard Domino – it took me hours to solve after the test.
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detuned
Posts: 152
Country : United Kingdom | detuned posted @ 2011-06-20 6:03 PM Agreed - a lot of the sudoku I tend to write (well those which aren't at an easy level at any rate) often start off with a very narrow solving path to start off with, and then end with an almost inevitable solving flurry. Rows/columns suggested by me and my testers in the path have differed wildly! It's definitely a difficult problem, and one I can certainly appreciate given I tend to make more typos than most.
Having recovered from my birthday this weekend, I look forward to giving this test a go at some point this week! |
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yureklis
Posts: 183
Country : Turkey | Thank you very much for beautiful test! There were so many great puzzles. I appreciate these two puzzle makers, i hope that they are keeping to make.
I think LMI has been turning into a home for puzzle makers from all over the world!
Edited by yureklis 2011-06-20 6:36 PM
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greenhorn
Posts: 164
Country : Slovakia | Hi everybody!
We are sorry for late response, but it is never too late to express our gratitude.
At first we want to thank Deb Mohanty and his team of co-workers. They always do some good work, when organizing such events and then it is too easy to make a good contest.
We want to appreciate the pre-solvers Blanka Lehotská, Pe?o Hudák a Honza Krtek Novotný. They have discovered some minor mistakes within the puzzles and their times were very close to the real difficulty of puzzles.
And finally we want to say big THANKS to all the contestants, who don´t hesitate start solving. We believe, that you liked the puzzles, because we tried to do our best, just to meet your expectations.
Big congratulation belongs to the best world competitors - Nikola (excelent performance!), Michael and Ulrich, best Indian competitors - Rohan, Thejal, Harmeet and we have to mention also the best Slovak contestants - Ivka, Matej and Martin.
Once again - thank you for the participation, let´s look forward to another great LMI montly tests.
Greetings by
Zuzka & Matúš
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L O G I D O K U — LMI June Sudoku Test — 18/19th June