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Country : India | |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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abhistya
Posts: 1
Country : India | Can this contest also be extended till monday as was snake. It help me to take the test on Monday |
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debmohanty
Country : India | abhistya - 2011-11-29 2:08 PM
Can this contest also be extended till monday as was snake. It help me to take the test on Monday
It is not decided yet. We'll discuss with Vladimir and announce.
For those who don't know, Forsmarts annual competitions are probably the oldest-alive puzzle competitions which is not a national championship. Vladimir had introduced lot of new variants in past contests. Interestingly this time, the contest has mostly classic puzzles with a theme that gels really well with the 9 th anniversary.
Link to older contests : http://forsmarts.com/eng/
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utkaarsh
Posts: 89
Country : India | In the IB,
1.)For skyscrappers , i see no hints or clues for 3X3 puzzle,
2.)In Tents , there are no clues ,
Please clarify if i have overlooked some basic clues
Edited by utkaarsh 2011-11-29 4:26 PM
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debmohanty
Country : India | You've not missed much, but you need to read the first page.
Clues in the grey cells are common for both adjacent grids. Finding their complete content is a part of solution.
So, in Tents and in Skyscrapers and in all other puzzles, you have to determine the clues in grey cells satisfying adjacent grids. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | can somebody help me out with FIRST SEEN JAPANESE SUMS not getting the start?
and also with DOTTED SNAKE?
Edited by swaroop2011 2011-11-29 11:12 PM
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kiwijam
Posts: 187
Country : New Zealand | kiwijam posted @ 2011-11-30 8:11 AM Hi Swaroop,
A quick start for how I approached FIRST SEEN JAPANESE SUMS. I notice this is rated as hardest of the 9 puzzles.
Look at bottom-right puzzle.
The 15-row gives 4 dots (=unknown digits) in the middle.
The top 12-row gives 3 dots.
The double-10-column can only have one segment, it's of length 3 or 4, so an X goes at the bottom.
The 11-row must have 2 Xs at the right, and one segment of length 3 or 4 on the left. Either way it must include a 5 and a 2, which only have one possible location each. Is the rest of the row a 4 or a 1&3?
Write 11 in the bottom-most grey cell and look at the bottom-left puzzle.
The 15-row and 10-row have 4 and 3 dots respectively.
So the 12-column has an X at the bottom.
The 4-11-row needs 5 dots in the other 5 cells...
Continue to finish the bottom-left puzzle, then top-left...
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | kiwijam - 2011-11-30 8:11 AM
Hi Swaroop,
A quick start for how I approached FIRST SEEN JAPANESE SUMS. I notice this is rated as hardest of the 9 puzzles.
Look at bottom-right puzzle.
The 15-row gives 4 dots (=unknown digits) in the middle.
The top 12-row gives 3 dots.
The double-10-column can only have one segment, it's of length 3 or 4, so an X goes at the bottom.
The 11-row must have 2 Xs at the right, and one segment of length 3 or 4 on the left. Either way it must include a 5 and a 2, which only have one possible location each. Is the rest of the row a 4 or a 1&3?
Write 11 in the bottom-most grey cell and look at the bottom-left puzzle.
The 15-row and 10-row have 4 and 3 dots respectively.
So the 12-column has an X at the bottom.
The 4-11-row needs 5 dots in the other 5 cells...
Continue to finish the bottom-left puzzle, then top-left...
hey thank you,
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Administrator
Country : India |
Timing of this contest
Just like Snake Variation contest, this contest will be open from Friday evening GMT and it ends at Monday night GMT.
Exact timing (in local time zone) can be found at the submission page
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2011-12-01 3:38 AM Thanks. Then I can actually compete. This weekend it is Sinterklaas here. I will most likely be busy most of the weekend. |
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kiwijam
Posts: 187
Country : New Zealand | kiwijam posted @ 2011-12-02 6:14 AM Hi Swaroop,
Starting point for the Dotted Snake...
The top-right puzzle is solvable by itself.
From the 1-cell, the snake cannot go right-up-up-left-up, because you'll struggle to get 3 dots in the 6th row.
And it cannot go right-up-up-left-left, because then it can't get to the right-most column and back to the 16-cell in time.
So it must go up-up from the 1-cell. This causes the dots in the right-most column to be in the 1st and 4th rows. And hopefully you can work through the rest of the snake.
This gives enough clues to solve the top-left puzzle, then the bottom-left, then the bottom-right.
A nicely challenging set of instruction puzzles, hopefully the real ones aren't too much bigger! |
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Administrator
Country : India |
About flash submission layout
We have a slightly different layout this time, which is designed based on the puzzle structure. See image below. Note that the tabs move from Top Left -> Top Right -> Bottom Left -> Bottom Right.
If you have any questions, please post here.
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debmohanty
Country : India | kiwijam - 2011-12-02 6:14 AM
A nicely challenging set of instruction puzzles, hopefully the real ones aren't too much bigger!
I'm sure many players know this. LMI submission system lets you know the size of puzzles if the answer keys are fixed. You can find it out even before you start the test. Since all answer keys are fixed this time, I can share the grid sizes.
Coral, Even-Odd, Japanese Sums, Outside Sum Sudoku (4X 7X7 )
Battleships, Tents (4X 8X8 )
Dotted Snake (4X 10X10 )
Easy as ABC (5X5,5X5,6X6,6X6 )
Skyscraper (4X4,5X5,6X6,7X7 )
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bartunio
Posts: 6
Country : Poland | Hi,
Does this test count for the monthly rankings? Just out of curiosity:-)
Bartek |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2011-12-02 2:16 PM bartunio - 2011-12-02 1:52 PM
Hi,
Does this test count for the monthly rankings? Just out of curiosity:-)
Bartek
No, this test will not be included in ratings. It is mentioned in the 'About Annual Competitions' thread.
In general Annual Competitions won't be included in monthly ratings. If any annual competition is included in ratings, it will be announced in forum. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Password protected puzzle booklet is uploaded. It has 9 pages, there is no cover page, there is no points table. |
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bartunio
Posts: 6
Country : Poland | Rohan Rao - 2011-12-02 11:16 AM
bartunio - 2011-12-02 1:52 PM
Hi,
Does this test count for the monthly rankings? Just out of curiosity:-)
Bartek
No, this test will not be included in ratings. It is mentioned in the 'About Annual Competitions' thread.
In general Annual Competitions won't be included in monthly ratings. If any annual competition is included in ratings, it will be announced in forum.
Thanks! Sorry for silly question - have been overworked recently:- )
B Edited by bartunio 2011-12-02 9:01 PM
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tomasz
Posts: 1
Country : Poland | tomasz posted @ 2011-12-02 11:30 PM Hi,
Where do I find the password? It's not displayed as in the picture above.
Ok, I got it. Sorry, I'm relatively new here :)
Edited by tomasz 2011-12-02 11:40 PM
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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tjt_1005
Posts: 2
Country : Philippines | May I ask what is this 'Claim Points' button in the Results page? Thanks! |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | Enjoyed the puzzles and the theme which was quite new to me.
Did a bad little blunder in the Outside sums sudoku that ended up ruining the whole bunch of 4 :P
Admins - I'm not sure if I entered the right answer correctly in the claim points box. If at all it matters, I'll gladly give it again. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | kiwijam - 2011-12-02 6:14 AM
Hi Swaroop,
Starting point for the Dotted Snake...
The top-right puzzle is solvable by itself.
From the 1-cell, the snake cannot go right-up-up-left-up, because you'll struggle to get 3 dots in the 6th row.
And it cannot go right-up-up-left-left, because then it can't get to the right-most column and back to the 16-cell in time.
So it must go up-up from the 1-cell. This causes the dots in the right-most column to be in the 1st and 4th rows. And hopefully you can work through the rest of the snake.
This gives enough clues to solve the top-left puzzle, then the bottom-left, then the bottom-right.
A nicely challenging set of instruction puzzles, hopefully the real ones aren't too much bigger!
hey thanks
hope so the contest puzzle is easy one. |
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Maksim
Posts: 6
Country : Belarus | Maksim posted @ 2011-12-03 9:23 PM Another excellent contest. Thank you, Vladimir. In spite of the mistakes, I made, I enjoy the puzzles very much. I envy those who have not yet solved these puzzles. Good luck for everybody. |
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greenhorn
Posts: 164
Country : Slovakia | Hi everybody,
at first I want to express my thank to the organisers and authors. This is one of the test types that was missing until now. I really enjoyed the puzzles.
Only think I do not consider suitable is the answer format for puzzles with blackened cells. It is impossible to check all the "-" signs. Probably my screen is not big enough, but I really think that it will be better if some friendly signs will be used. For example, when you write WWWWW or BBBBB it is easier as -----------
Thanks
Matus |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Matus, very impressive performance from you.
On using the "-" symbols, the font used in the submission system makes it more difficult as well. So at the very least we should be using a different font. The Sudoku one already uses a fixed-width font. We'll change the font in puzzle submission system as well.
Unrelated note : There was a minor glitch in the score page where "total points" for 2 players was computed wrongly. It has been fixed since. Thanks prasanna16391 for reporting. |
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forsmarts
Posts: 33
Country : Belarus | In order to avoid double standards all the claims for submission of the wrong row/column will be rejected. Please be careful entering your answers. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | nice set of puzzles,
enjoyed a lot,
messed up in easy as abc, skyscraper.
performance was not so as i expected but any ways thanks to author for such an awesome contest.
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-12-04 8:12 PM Thanks for the wonderful test !
The concept was just fine and puzzles were really good !
(every puzzle tests should have many sudokus and other latin square puzzles, héhé ! and I should always check my codes when I decide to stop playing and the timing is not finished)
Fred
Edited by Fred76 2011-12-04 8:12 PM
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jsmith
Posts: 1
Country : United States | jsmith posted @ 2011-12-04 10:58 PM I am pretty new at using this site. I mostly download the puzzles and work them on my own, usually long after the contests are over. Today, I had my coffee, sat down at the computer, logged in...and I cannot see a password or timer anywhere. The blanks for entering solutions are there - but no password. Has this happened to anyone else?
- Jeff |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1801
Country : India | Well I see that you haven't said that you clicked on "Start Forsmarts...". Do that if you haven't. Once you do that, timer and password will appear. If you did that as well, then there's some glitch probably that the admins will check out when they're online. |
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-12-04 11:34 PM jsmith - 2011-12-04 10:58 PM
I am pretty new at using this site. I mostly download the puzzles and work them on my own, usually long after the contests are over. Today, I had my coffee, sat down at the computer, logged in...and I cannot see a password or timer anywhere. The blanks for entering solutions are there - but no password. Has this happened to anyone else?
- Jeff
Hi Jeff, Once you're logged, you just have to click on "start forsmarts 9th annual competition" and you'll see the password and timer.
I don't see you in the list of participant, so I think you just didn't start.
Fred |
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Emma
Posts: 1
Country : United Kingdom | Emma posted @ 2011-12-05 3:55 AM That was fun - thanks. |
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RJH0723
Posts: 13
Country : United States | RJH0723 posted @ 2011-12-05 3:59 AM Really loved the idea and the puzzles! |
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motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2011-12-05 1:23 PM I was 90% sure I would have to skip this test but I found a few hours this evening and I am glad I did. These were very elegant combinations of classic types, with lots of good interactions between the grids. Thanks very much for these puzzles Vlad! |
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debmohanty
Country : India | |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Congratulations to motris, for winning this contest with a huge margin. uvo is next with significant margin from misko. All of misko's submissions came after 120 minutes, and he lost 100 points.
A total of 205 players, out of which 155 players solved at least one puzzle and 148 players solved at least one set completely. Interestingly, tarotaro was the only player to have solved all 4 Dotted Snakes.
We haven't used Extra Time regularly in the past. But I felt many players lost lot of points because of using Extra Time. For example, xevs lost 53.2 - 18 - 8 = 27.2 points for fixing a typo during Extra time. (He made a typo at 018:50, he fixed it at 124:26) He would have got 27.2 points if he hadn't fixed the typo.
May be .2 per second was really high for this since the maximum points achieved was 835 points. |
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motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2011-12-06 9:49 AM Penalty systems like this one often require a solver to calculate on the fly if they should submit or not and certainly some players will submit when it is not to their advantage.
I finished the last two battleship parts 4 minutes in extra time, around when it would have cost me about 42 points to submit. It took me 2 points of time to figure out 15+15+10 was < 42 and also now < 44 points of penalty so I never submitted. But I could have made this mistake and lost points.
I personally like extra time that operates a little more like T3ist scoring, so there is rapidly declining value for submitting in this time, but it is always worth something to submit and the competitor doesn't have to solve a separate puzzle of calculating his marginal score improvement. Perhaps 80% value for 1 minute over, 60% value for 2 minutes over, ..., 0% value for 5 minutes over.
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forsmarts
Posts: 33
Country : Belarus | Many thanks to all the participants! Congratulations to Thomas, it was an impressive victory.
Sorry if anyone felt being treated unfair when the claims for the points were rejected: rows and columns for the answer keys were selected on purpose. So to keep the judging consistent - all the claims on submitting wrong row/column were rejected, no matter if it felt like a trick to enter a line that could be filled in the very beginning of solving process or otherwise.
I also want to extend gratitude to Deb who created a wonderful handy engine for conducting online-contests and was very helping during the preparation to the contest and the contest itself.
All the best, come back next year for a jubilee contest! :)
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-12-06 3:54 PM In the top 20 of a puzzle test (until the last minute, I was convinced that Para will kick me out of the top 20 )??? before the last 2 world champions???
I can't prevent to think that it's an interplanetary conspiracy 
Fred |
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greenhorn
Posts: 164
Country : Slovakia | Some complacency resulting from my performance
I really could not believe, that I remain in the top 10. When I saw my nickname somewhere at 7th position and Thomas, Palmer, Taro, Ko or Bram still haven´t participate it become quite frustrating. I solve at Saturday morning and start with 3rd position, so I will be very sad if all these superb solvers overtake me in the last few hours. But they did not and now I wonder if somebody who is 211th in the puzzle rating could finish in the top 10.
Otherwise big congratulation belongs to the best performers and all the organisers.
Matus |
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Valezius
Posts: 66
Country : Hungary | Great puzzles, I loved them. Especially the skyscrapers and japanese sums.
Unfortunately I have no idea how can I solve the dotted snake. But this is a puzzle invented by me :) Thank you for the propagation. :)
This puzzle had the smallest number of submission, this calm me down a little :-)
Congratulations to motris, uvo and misko. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Fred76 - 2011-12-06 3:54 PM
In the top 20 of a puzzle test (until the last minute, I was convinced that Para will kick me out of the top 20 )??? before the last 2 world champions???
I can't prevent to think that it's an interplanetary conspiracy
Fred I've told you earlier, you should participate more often in puzzle tests 
greenhorn - 2011-12-06 6:17 PM
But they did not and now I wonder if somebody who is 211th in the puzzle rating could finish in the top 10.
Matus Certainly the rank of 211 th is not a true reflection of your solving abilities. Of the 12 tests considered for ratings, you have participated only once. That said, we definitely saw many top players not doing well in this test, it can't just be a coincidence.
I also want to mention that Vladimir has originally planned this contest for 150 minutes. Although I didn't oppose to running the contest for that long, I suggested to reduce the length if possible, considering that it was 3 rd consecutive weekend of puzzles at LMI (that too immediately after WS/PC ). Obviously, he had calculated the the timing exactly, and my suggestion was without solving the set. May be running the test for 150 minutes would have brought the best out of everyone.
Edited by debmohanty 2011-12-06 9:21 PM
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debmohanty
Country : India | |
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MellowMelon
Country : United States | To explain my own performance, first if this test had been rated I probably would have unchecked the box. The Putnam (http://www.maa.org/awards/putnam.html) was not the only thing I had to worry about this weekend, and a lot of the types weren't ones I was comfortable with (sudoku? easy as? japanese sums?). Second, if you check my submission times, it was going pretty well, and then I stubbornly refused to skip the dotted snake until I had sunk 50 minutes into it. 420 points in the first hour, 28 in the second.
And since "last 2 world champions" was noted by someone, it seems tarotaro had a similar problem. To his credit, he did finish the dotted snake after his 50 minutes (only one as pointed out above).
Edited by MellowMelon 2011-12-06 10:23 PM
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BohemianCoast
Posts: 16
Country : United Kingdom | Thank you for a very interesting and challenging set of puzzles. I performed dismally, which wasn't a surprise given how much I'd struggled with the puzzles in the instruction booklet! I'm glad it didn't count for ratings. Even now I have only managed to finish two more sets, so I don't think 150 minutes would have helped me much. |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2011-12-06 10:34 PM I didn't have the best of solves, but I really haven't had any since coming back from Eger. Maybe I just drained everything there to perform what was above my own expectations/hopes in Eger. I also didn't exactly have the best planning yesterday. I was hoping to be home at 6 and then do some puzzling. I ended up being home at 10, without having had dinner. I had started at the end of the test booklet and 40 minutes in, I still had 0 solved grids and had attempted the last 4 types. So I'm pretty sure if Fred and Matus had seen my progress first hand, they would have stopped worrying about that time about me knocking them out of the top 10/20. This was also the point I thought, "Let's just stop, it's late, I could be doing something productive like sleeping". I eventually managed to work through 6 types completely, although making 2 entry mistakes and 1 solving mistake. I had fun solving the last 80 minutes and they were nice puzzles. Maybe I will be able to puzzle properly again next year. |
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-12-07 12:12 AM MellowMelon - 2011-12-06 10:20 PM
And since "last 2 world champions" was noted by someone, it seems tarotaro had a similar problem. To his credit, he did finish the dotted snake after his 50 minutes (only one as pointed out above).
Sorry, it was not a criticism of your performance, or anybody else performance. It's clear that your level is far better than your rank in this test, and it's also clear that mine is far worse on puzzles than my rank on this test. The circumstances were favorable, so I could make an unexpected rank. I think it'll not happen often, so I'm happy 
I wait for a sudoku test to reassure myself completely (or not... ).
Fred |
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MellowMelon
Country : United States | Don't worry, I didn't see it as insulting. My (relatively) bad performance is due to my own shortcomings, and your good one deserves praise. But you better believe I'm going to work hard to avoid messing up like this again. :) |
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rob
Posts: 170
Country : Germany | rob posted @ 2011-12-07 4:54 PM I'd love to see some hints on how to solve the dotted snakes. I managed to guess possible solutions to the left two puzzles by now, but I find snakes hard enough to solve without the added interactions between the grids. General snake solving advice would also be appreciated -- I often struggle on those croco snakes that some people throw out in a couple of minutes…
Also, thanks a lot for the test. I loved the concept of the test, and the puzzles that I solved. The puzzles were a bit on the hard side for me, so that guessing instead of staring in places would probably have been a good idea. In the end, I was surprised by how well I placed, since it didn't seem like a good performance. I sunk a lot of time into the Easy as ABC that turned out to be broken in the very end, and never felt fast. |
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forsmarts
Posts: 33
Country : Belarus | rob - 2011-12-07 4:54 PM
I'd love to see some hints on how to solve the dotted snakes. I managed to guess possible solutions to the left two puzzles by now, but I find snakes hard enough to solve without the added interactions between the grids.
The intended order of solving was starting from bottom right and going clockwise: in that case every single puzzle could be solved uniquely. |
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rob
Posts: 170
Country : Germany | rob posted @ 2011-12-08 1:27 AM forsmarts - 2011-12-07 7:11 PM
rob - 2011-12-07 4:54 PM
I'd love to see some hints on how to solve the dotted snakes.
The intended order of solving was starting from bottom right and going clockwise: in that case every single puzzle could be solved uniquely.
Thanks, I got through now. It turns out the two solved grids were ok. I realized some new things about dotted snakes in the process (particularly how they're close to "star battle" in some ways ), though I didn't actually manage to prove uniqueness. |
Forsmarts 3² Anniversary Squared Contest — 3rd-5th December