|
|
Administrator
   
Country : India | |
|
Administrator
Country : India | Logic Masters India announces August Sudoku Test — Sudoku City
Author : Nikola Zivanovic
Dates : 6 th and 7 th August
Length : 100 minutes
IB and Submission Link : here
Sudokus based on various types of Skyscraper puzzles
|
|
Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-08-02 4:37 PM It looks like it will be a skyscrapers month, with the skyscrapers contest on logic-masters (germany ) 
I look forward to coming to sudoku city this weekend  |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | Fred76 - 2011-08-02 4:37 PM
It looks like it will be a skyscrapers month, with the skyscrapers contest on logic-masters (germany )
Yes, I hope that Sudoku City will serve as some practice for Skyscrapers contest at LMD
Fred76 - 2011-08-02 4:37 PM
I look forward to coming to sudoku city this weekend It is interesting why Nikola named this set as "Sudoku City", and not "Skyscraper Sudokus"
|
|
Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-08-02 5:01 PM debmohanty - 2011-08-02 4:45 PM
It is interesting why Nikola named this set as "Sudoku City", and not "Skyscraper Sudokus"
A 9*9 sudoku contains 81 skyscrapers. There will be 12 9*9 grids on this contest, so it makes 972 skyscrapers... This is undoubtedly a beautiful little city |
|
akash.doulani
Posts: 157
Country : India | any links where we can find variations of skyscrappers ? |
|
rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Fred76 - 2011-08-02 5:01 PM
A 9*9 sudoku contains 81 skyscrapers. There will be 12 9*9 grids on this contest, so it makes 972 skyscrapers... This is undoubtedly a beautiful little city Among the Cities with most Skyscrapers, this city ranks second !!!
 (skyscrapers.png)Attachments ----------------  skyscrapers.png (44KB - 2 downloads) |
|
akash.doulani
Posts: 157
Country : India | add 4 more sudokus for the test and this will be the city with the maximum no. of skyscrappers
|
|
Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-08-02 8:07 PM rakesh_rai - 2011-08-02 6:45 PM
Fred76 - 2011-08-02 5:01 PM
A 9*9 sudoku contains 81 skyscrapers. There will be 12 9*9 grids on this contest, so it makes 972 skyscrapers... This is undoubtedly a beautiful little city Among the Cities with most Skyscrapers, this city ranks second !!!
|
|
Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2011-08-03 12:30 AM akash.doulani - 2011-08-02 6:17 PM
any links where we can find variations of skyscrappers ?
http://www.sachsentext.de/en/taxonomy/term/157
You can find a few of the variations that will appear there. (regular/jigsaw/even-odd/non-consecutive ) |
|
Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-08-03 4:43 PM |
|
swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | just as suggestion
is it possible that after the test a pdf containing solution would be uploaded so that after the test is over for those who didnt got all the puzzles can check it out.
solution can by only solved grids or with few steps whichever is convenience..
plz reply... |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | One Total Skyscraper from me
 |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | swaroop2011 - 2011-08-03 9:26 PM
just as suggestion
is it possible that after the test a pdf containing solution would be uploaded so that after the test is over for those who didnt got all the puzzles can check it out.
solution can by only solved grids or with few steps whichever is convenience..
plz reply...
It is not always possible.
After creating the puzzles (and examples ), authors spend lot of time writing the IB and PB. We can't ask them to write the solution booklet. It takes time.
It is much easier if you ask for solution of specific grids. Even if you ask 1 month after the test is over, I'm sure you'll get the solution posted in forum. |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | Attention top players : Change in Bonus points structure
We are making a change in the bonus points structure for this test.
Players solving all 12 puzzles correctly will get "1 point per minute saved" as bonus point.
Players solving 11 puzzles correctly (and 1 incorrectly ) will get "1 point per 2 minutes saved" as bonus point.
We'll introduce "Claim Bonus" feature in this test.
You can click on "Claim Bonus" after ALL sudokus are submitted (either using online or paper mode ).
Submissions will not be allowed after you "Claim Bonus"
Time bonus as discussed above will be computed from the time this button is clicked. |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | akash.doulani - 2011-08-02 6:17 PM
any links where we can find variations of skyscrappers ? Roland Voigt's site - http://www.hochhausigel.de/e-varianten.html - lists lots of Skyscraper variations, many of them being original to that site. |
|
akash.doulani
Posts: 157
Country : India | can we have another skyscrapper from deb?
|
|
debmohanty
Country : India | Here is a "First 3" Skyscraper (though it solves like a different type of Sudoku )
Enjoy! |
|
Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-08-04 10:34 PM Nice grid, despite the fact you didn't achieve to have 2 visible skyscrapers from bottom of column 3  |
|
muralik7
Posts: 10
Country : India | @Rakesh,
this is good statistic Edited by muralik7 2011-08-05 1:18 PM
|
|
Administrator
Country : India | Password protected Sudoku booklet uploaded. It has 6 pages, there is no header page, each page has 2 Sudokus.
|
|
swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | can anybody tell how to solve the instruction booklet puzzle
PRODUCT (not got any number)
ODD/EVEN ( just placed DIgit "6" in all the rows)
plz reply.. |
|
Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2011-08-06 3:00 AM swaroop2011 - 2011-08-05 11:37 PM
can anybody tell how to solve the instruction booklet puzzle
PRODUCT (not got any number)
ODD/EVEN ( just placed DIgit "6" in all the rows)
plz reply..
PRODUCT:
Opening: 720 in Row 1 = 1x2x3x4x5x6 or 2x3x4x5x6; 120 in Column 1 is 1x4x5x6 or 4x5x6. So R1C1 is 1. With that it shouldn't be too hard.
ODD/EVEN: After the 6's. The 5 in C2 can't be in R3 or R5 as that would force the clue in that row to 3 and it has to be even. So it has to go into R2C2, which also gives you the 5 in R1. Then check out R4 for where the 5 goes. It shouldn't be too hard from here on. Look at the 4s first when you've placed all 5s. |
|
Administrator
Country : India | |
|
forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | possible typo. The test page says "Consider my score for the LMI puzzle rating". Sholdn't say "for the LMI SUDOKU rating"? is this a sudoku contest or a puzzle contest? |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | forcolin - 2011-08-06 3:13 PM
possible typo. The test page says "Consider my score for the LMI puzzle rating". Sholdn't say "for the LMI SUDOKU rating"? is this a sudoku contest or a puzzle contest?
Bad typo :- )
But no changes to interface while the test is running. Will change for the text test |
|
neerajmehrotra
Posts: 329
Country : India | debmohanty - 2011-08-06 3:15 PM
forcolin - 2011-08-06 3:13 PM
possible typo. The test page says "Consider my score for the LMI puzzle rating". Sholdn't say "for the LMI SUDOKU rating"? is this a sudoku contest or a puzzle contest?
Bad typo :- )
But no changes to interface while the test is running. Will change for the text test
A better version would be
"Consider my score for the LMI ratings"
This would not require frequent changes. Can be implemented after this test is over. |
|
rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | forcolin - 2011-08-06 3:13 PM
is this a sudoku contest or a puzzle contest? Its a bit of both |
|
motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2011-08-06 7:58 PM Thanks for a very fun test Nikola. I wish I didn't have to travel this weekend (forcing me to wake up at 4:30 AM to compete), but I'm glad I got the chance to see this beautiful, beautiful city to start my journey.
Edited by motris 2011-08-06 8:18 PM
|
|
neerajmehrotra
Posts: 329
Country : India | another test full of challenge and fun............I really sometimes wonder if we do not have these monthly LMI tests...how boring will become these weekends. |
|
swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | was a tough test for me !!!!!
I THINK I NEED LOTS OF PRACTISE AND PRACTISE..........
But nice set of sudokus.
Enjoyed a lot whatever i was doing during those 100 min..
Edited by swaroop2011 2011-08-07 6:06 PM
|
|
thesubro
Posts: 23
Country : United States | Enjoyable test indeed. Thanks for adding to my weekend.
p.s. What is up with the ever increasing number of folks who are registered and who sign in to take the test and then submit no results? My jaded American mindset is that there may be many folks registering under one name to get the test, solve it, and then return under another name to solve well later. Anything that can be done with additional technology to prevent this, or are we all just on the honor system here? Sorry to drop a mess on the table here, but the fact that so many signed up and didnt enter is disturbing - and its only been increasing.
TheSubro
Edited by thesubro 2011-08-07 6:13 PM
|
|
Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | Many other possible reasons to this. Some of these players can simply not have a printer - they get the puzzles, and they will print them or copy them by hand later. Some may not have enough free time to participate; so, again, they get the files now and solve later.
There are also some players who do not want the others to know their score - many consider that they are not skilled enough and are afraid of being ridiculous, while some are skilled and that's the reason why they do not want other top players to know about their strengths and weaknesses. I know such players.
Finally, some are just not interested at speed solving, so they see no interest in sending back answers within a time limit. |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | Some raw statistics about NonZero scores. Not much significant change over months.
More about this after the test is over.
| 2010 | 2011 | | TestName | NonZeroPercent | | Master Mind Twins | 71.11% | | SPEED SIXES | 88.89% | | EverGreens | 76.24% | | Classic Look-Alikes | 79.75% | | Sampler Platter | 88.41% | | Qixi Festivale Special | 72.34% | | Broken Pieces | 81.52% | | EverGreens II | 77.57% | | Sudoku Hotpot | 84.18% | | Nikoli Selection 2010 | 82.51% | | 20/10 Puzzle Decathlon | 84.51% | | Renban Grouped Sudokus | 88.83% | | FLIP | 85.22% | | Screen Test #1 | 97.34% | | Puzzles & Chess | 71.68% | | X'Mas Special Sudoku | 87.95% |
| | TestName | NonZeroPercent | | Puzzle Jackpot | 75.43% | | Prime Exotica | 77.42% | | Double Delight | 76.30% | | Melon's Puzzle Zoo | 71.20% | | Puzzle Hybrids | 76.19% | | LMI Spring Sudoku Test | 73.94% | | Twist | 77.22% | | LMI April Sudoku Test | 77.70% | | MAYnipulation | 71.55% | | Something is Missing | 67.83% | | Fillomino Fillia | 80.79% | | LOGIDOKU | 83.97% | | Nikoli Selection 2011 | 77.78% | | Fivefold Sudoku Test | 90.05% | | Magic Cube | 79.31% | | Sudoku City | ??.??% |
|
|
|
Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-08-07 10:25 PM Ours brun - 2011-08-07 9:49 PM
some are skilled and that's the reason why they do not want other top players to know about their strengths and weaknesses. I know such players.
Ours brun, are you French ???
(Sorry, private joke  )
Fred |
|
greenhorn
Posts: 164
Country : Slovakia | It is also my case. I get used to start the test and not submit my answers. I really hate rewriting the solved columns/rows, because always make some stupid typos and such mistakes. For me it is not important to be in the results table. I omit the last 5 minutes (the time of possible submiting) and that is how I can still compare my participation with the other contestants |
|
puzzlemad
Posts: 28
Country : United Kingdom | Just like to add my thanks to that of everyone else. An enjoyable end to my weekend. |
|
Ziti
Posts: 42
Country : United States | Ziti posted @ 2011-08-08 5:17 AM Thank you Nikola -- these were fun. And I need a new printer! :) |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | Sudoku City is over. Thanks to all who visited the city. 128 of 199 players got non zero scores.
I'm extremely sad to announce that one of the Sudoku (Inside Skyscraper) didn't have a solution. We are still discussing how to handle the situation. |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | debmohanty - 2011-08-08 7:15 AM
I'm extremely sad to announce that one of the Sudoku (Inside Skyscraper) didn't have a solution. We are still discussing how to handle the situation.
I'm sure many of you were surprised to read that Inside Skyscraper was not solvable. Left arrow was missing at R9C6. It was such a small mistake, and it almost didn't have much impact on solving the puzzle. para (Bram de Laat ) was the person to notice it, and we realized the mistake 3 hours before the test end time. So we decided not to announce it.
However, we realize that some players could have been affected by the mistake, most notably para. So we decide to give full points to para, Semax, jrivet, WaterlooMathie, martin for this puzzle. Their solution is very close to what we expected. motris get 80% because we strongly believe he has a typo in the submission.
Finally, the results - LMI has a new winner this time - Yuhei Kusui who is cleanly ahead of others with 93 points / 11 puzzles. motris and skywalker take 2nd and 3rd position respectively with 10 puzzles each.
Rohan, Rakesh and Neeraj complete the Indian podium.
|
|
Nikola
Posts: 103
Country : Serbia | Nikola posted @ 2011-08-08 2:14 PM I got a little sick last night when I heard about a mistake, but I'm fine now. There is a long history of wrong puzzles.
First of all I would like to say a few words about some previous posts.
@ Fred76
Yes, seems it will be a skyscrapers month, but this is coincidence. Sudoku City was originally planned for July, but in June we had Logidoku so it is rescheduled for August. Deb wanted to avoid two consecutive sudoku tests based on logic puzzle types. The reason is that these tests were qualified for UK Sudoku team.
@ rakesh rai
Nice building statistic.
@ motris, neerajmehrotra, swaroop2011, thesubro, Ours brun, puzzlemad, Ziti...
Thank you all for taking the free time this weekend for sudoku and many thanks for the compliments.
Nikola |
|
Nikola
Posts: 103
Country : Serbia | Nikola posted @ 2011-08-08 2:21 PM Now I want to thank everyone who take a walk through our small town this weekend. Congratulation to Yuhei Kusui, Thomas Snyder and Branko Ceranic for topping this test. Yuhei was inaugurated as mayor of Sudoku City. 
I must thank to Rishi Puri and Zoltan Horvath, they helped me a lot. I have to mention Rishi’s time. He solved all 12 puzzles in amazing 89 minutes, but in the relaxed atmosphere, so he is only a virtual winner of the contest. The test was planned in two hours, but when I saw his time, I decided to limit the time on 100 minutes.
Once again many thanks to LMI and Deb Mohanty for hosting Sudoku City.
Nikola Edited by Nikola 2011-08-08 2:25 PM
|
|
debmohanty
Country : India | Nikola, Thanks for building a nice city and allowing everyone to roam around.
I myself was planning to create a Skyscraper based Sudoku test, but your "City Theme" was mind-blowing. |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | thesubro - 2011-08-07 6:12 PM
p.s. What is up with the ever increasing number of folks who are registered and who sign in to take the test and then submit no results? My jaded American mindset is that there may be many folks registering under one name to get the test, solve it, and then return under another name to solve well later. Anything that can be done with additional technology to prevent this, or are we all just on the honor system here? Sorry to drop a mess on the table here, but the fact that so many signed up and didnt enter is disturbing - and its only been increasing.
TheSubro
1 )
Yes, the number of zero scores are bit disturbing. Close to 35% players have zero scores in this test. It happens when the test puzzles are tough.
As Ours brun posted there could be various reasons for these zero scores. In this test, many good players started but didn't submit.
greenhorn has already posted why he didn't / doesn't submit his score. I'm not sure if LMI ratings has a role to play as well.
Ideas on how to improve non-zero scores is welcome. (It is not surprising that fivefold is the only test with >90% non-zero scores. Players couldn't have waited till the end to decide whether they should submit or not )
2 )
Regarding players trying to cheat the system using 2 logins : we can't be too concerned because in my mind there is no technical solution to prevent this when the test is running for 48 hours. However, let me assure all that we do our best to find out such cases, and disqualify. We don't post how we detect such cases and who we disqualify, but previous authors (as recently as Something is Missing, Fivefold ) can certify that we've disqualified more than one player in each cases.
|
|
petkav
Posts: 1
Country : Czech Republic | petkav posted @ 2011-08-08 6:29 PM I think that P07 should be voided. When I realized in the bottom row that it has no solution, I didn´t post any. I don´t think that giving points for incorrect solutions is good idea.
|
|
Yuhei Kusui
Posts: 42
Country : Japan | I was very surprised at the results. I’m very happy to win a LMI contest after an interval of more than two and a half years (Mock Test 3 held on December 2008 ). One of the main reasons for win is that the points of SUM and PRODUCT were relatively low; I’m poor at mathematics...
Nikola, thank you for the beautiful constructions.
Together with wonderful citizens, I’ll do my best for the development of Sudoku City!
(At first, I didn’t plan to participate in the skyscrapers contest in Logic Masters. But I decided to visit that contest as "official duty" )
BTW, I’d like to point out one thing. When I solved 11 grids, there were about 5 minutes left. If I had been a completely rational man, I had hit “Claim Bonus” button immediately and got additional 2 points. (In fact, I felt it was almost impossible for me to solve a 7-point PRODUCT in 5 minutes. ) But I hated to abandon a puzzle and selected to try last one, only to lose time bonus points.
We should avoid “Quit early, Get advantage” system, which is a lesson we must learn from Zilina. Thus I think some consideration is needed for putting together partial-solved time bonus system and “Claim Bonus” button.
Anyway, the next puzzle test is designed by the Japanese puzzle makers. I hope many people can enjoy our high-quality puzzles! Edited by Yuhei Kusui 2011-08-09 8:29 AM
|
|
debmohanty
Country : India | Congratulations once again for winning. Even Branko is in the LMI podium after a long time.
I find it interesting to see new winners, although motris is always a favorite to win every test he plays having won 7 of the 11 Sudoku tests he has played.
The "Claim Bonus" button is new, and the functionality probably needs few refinements.
But, I'm guessing that you suggest we shouldn't have had partial bonus points in this test.
|
|
motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2011-08-09 8:34 PM Our partial bonus system in WSC Philadelphia was tied to a belief that the solver had made an honest effort on any puzzle they had a mistake in. They might have lost the puzzle points for a mistake, but they had spent enough time to get far enough on it. I would certainly lean in this direction. I still think the best system for an online test uses some amount of instant grading and reporting at the moment of claimed bonus which might tell solvers with a typo that they have 1 puzzle wrong and would tell solvers that are done that they are done. No blank (early quitting) submissions would ever make sense in this system but at the same time typos wouldn't void all possible time bonus. |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | The way "Claim Bonus" was designed would have required Yuhei to enter solutions for all 12 Sudokus. So in effect, the bonus points would have been only if all 12 are correct, OR 11 are correct + 1 is incorrect. However, there is nothing that would have stopped one to enter some dummy answers for the 12th to claim bonus.
With instant grading not in place yet, one change we could do is authors/organizers can decide whether the wrong answer is an genuine attempt and give bonus points accordingly. |
|
motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2011-08-10 5:06 AM debmohanty - 2011-08-08 4:07 AM
1)
Yes, the number of zero scores are bit disturbing. Close to 35% players have zero scores in this test. It happens when the test puzzles are tough.
As Ours brun posted there could be various reasons for these zero scores. In this test, many good players started but didn't submit.
greenhorn has already posted why he didn't / doesn't submit his score. I'm not sure if LMI ratings has a role to play as well.
Ideas on how to improve non-zero scores is welcome. (It is not surprising that fivefold is the only test with >90% non-zero scores. Players couldn't have waited till the end to decide whether they should submit or not)
So I was looking back at this comment which seemed weird to me as I thought the check box at the start meant 0's were now counting against solvers (unless they report technical problems ). But it seems from looking at some top players that indeed a solver can start a test, not submit any answers, and not impact their rankings. Which is what you are getting at above with how some good solvers don't report on a test they know they are doing bad on. I didn't know submitting no answers equaled a free pass; I don't think it should equal a free pass. Perhaps we should re-explore the purpose of the opt-in box at the start. If players can go about a test to not report their bad days, then the rankings for some will be inflated unfairly. If players don't want to report their scores, they can choose to compete unofficially and then not submit. |
|
WaterlooMathie
Posts: 10
Country : Canada | I thought the puzzles were well constructed and didn't notice the omission in the puzzle with the mistake.
My only problem with the contest was that the Odd/Even puzzle didn't allow for people solving online to input anything in the boxes around the 9x9 grid. Not being able to input these numbers turned a 11 point grid into a 30+ point grid in difficulty. If the people who printed out the puzzles don't understand where I'm coming from, try solving the puzzle blind-folded so that the puzzle becomes a test of your memory to solve a puzzle rather than a test of using logic. |
|
debmohanty
Country : India | That is really a bad miss, and I've to blame myself for that.
Extremely sorry about that, and we just have to be more careful in future. |
|
wicktroll
Posts: 16
Country : Hungary | Sorry to ask a bit late and probably not in the best topic, but I have a request. I solved Sudoku City online and found the 'Undo' button quite useful. Unfortunately I clicked on it too many times when solving the Product Sudoku and I got lost which correct numbers I have removed (I was too tired :( ).
Would it be possible to add a 'Redo' button as well or it would be an advantage for online solvers because offline solvers can't 'redo' erased numbers from the 'memory' of the paper?
Edited by wicktroll 2011-08-17 12:27 AM
|
|
debmohanty
Country : India | I'm not sure if "redo" feature is a good idea. Like you, I've a feeling that it will be more advantage to online players.
You should be using different colors, if you bifurcate while solving online. |
