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ISKL Round 4 (22nd Jan) •Part 1Part 2 ends in 7 hours 15 minutes Discuss

Poll Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017
Reply    WSC and WPC 2017 -> General Discussion about WSC and WPC 201714 posts • Page 1 of 1 • 1
We, the organizers of WSC/WPC 2017, are proposing an idea of replacing the Playoffs in the 2017 Championships with more rounds for all players to solve
Please share your opinion and thoughts about "Playoffs in the 2017 Championships"
OptionResults
Playoffs should be held at WSC & WPC 201731 Votes - [50%]
Playoffs need not be held, I prefer more competitive rounds of solving9 Votes - [14.52%]
Playoffs need not be held, I prefer better spacing of the rounds and maybe an extra round22 Votes - [35.48%]

Administrator
Subject: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2016-12-26 11:53 AM (#22270) (#22270)Quote Reply Top


2000202020

We, the organizers of WSC/WPC 2017, are proposing an idea of replacing the Playoffs in the 2017 Championships with more rounds for all players to solve

The WSC and WPC have always had playoffs at the end as a viewing attraction for audiences and as a grand finale to the competition. Over time playoff formats have changed and their fairness has always been debated among participants. With the Sudoku GP and Puzzle GP recently becoming annual tournaments with a playoff at the end, a playoff at the WSC and WPC feel redundant, in our opinion. All the positive which may be achieved by a WSC/WPC playoff are arguably achieved by the GP playoffs. In addition to this, scrapping the playoffs of WSC and WPC will give time for more rounds to solve for all competitors, and also act as a further distinction between the GPs and the World Championships. As per our suggestion, the champion will be decided by the total score across the individual rounds.



Administrator
Subject: No Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2016-12-26 11:54 AM (#22271 - in reply to #22270) (#22271)Quote Reply Top


2000202020

Poll closes on 28th Feb 2017

This poll closes on 28th Feb 2017. Based on the results of this poll, the organizers will decide if playoffs should be replaced or not. Please note that only LMI members can vote, so register/login here in order to do so.


greenhorn
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-02 4:31 PM (#22299 - in reply to #22270) (#22299)Quote Reply Top


Kakuro Author

Posts: 127
10020
Location: Slovakia
I am play-off enthusiastic and as you may have seen in Senec I would like to have even more play-offs... Team play-offs for example :)
We had 14 rounds at the WSC and 17 rounds at the WPC. Do you think that more rounds are still needed?
I believe that competitors solving both WSC and WPC may be tired and solving individual rounds on Saturday seems to be too demanding.
From my view WSC&WPC and WPF GP are totally different competitions and online solving requires different skills. Please keep in mind the difference.
Nikola
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-03 3:49 PM (#22303 - in reply to #22270) (#22303)Quote Reply Top


Sudoku Day Author

Posts: 90
20202020
Location: Serbia
I think this poll is result of wishes to make some changes at the endgame. Play-off is good way to find out who is the best solver of the year. I don't want to sound destructively, but format seen in past three years is a bit unfair. Try to compare this playoffs structure with any other team or individual competition, sport or discipline.
The advantage at the final stage should be minimal, almost negligible (better draw at the start of the tournament, better lane, home-field advantage etc.). There is no distance, time or points advantages. Simply, this is a moment when you need to give your best.
I agree that perfect play-off system is not invented yet, but the face-to-face playoffs format from Kraljevica is much more equitable. Also, there were some dramatic scenes for the audience which was never seen again. That's the reasons why my vote goes for the playoffs. I hope this discussion will generate best solutions for the future.
ingmanc
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-04 4:50 PM (#22306 - in reply to #22270) (#22306)Quote Reply Top




Posts: 33
20
Location: Italy
I think that playoffs are a suggestive moment of WSC/WPC, but certainly not like in Senec, where people weren't able to see what playoff solvers were writing, and all became rather boring. I would like an extended playoff, with the first 32 A-team players participant in face-to-face challenges like an ATP tennis tournament. This way, even reaching the 32nd position will become an interesting goal for WSC/WPC participants, whose number, besides, is ever increasing from year to year.

Edited by ingmanc 2017-01-04 4:54 PM
Fred76
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-04 9:27 PM (#22307 - in reply to #22306) (#22307)Quote Reply Top



Diagonal Vision Author

Posts: 314
100100100
Location: Switzerland
ingmanc - 2017-01-04 4:50 PM

This way, even reaching the 32nd position will become an interesting goal for WSC/WPC participants, whose number, besides, is ever increasing from year to year.


Number of official participants is rather stable (the tendancy seems even decreasing for WSC) at ~100. I don't think it would be a good idea that 1/3 of the participants can qualify for the playoffs. It has been done at WSC 2009 and even if I wasn't there, the reports I read seemed to tell that it was not a great success.

Edited by Fred76 2017-01-04 9:28 PM
ingmanc
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-05 4:19 PM (#22309 - in reply to #22307) (#22309)Quote Reply Top




Posts: 33
20
Location: Italy
Times change, dear Fred. And a format that eight years ago was not a success could be a success nowadays. Besides, considering unofficial participants, 32 playoff finalists are a part included between 1/7 and 1/8 of all participants. Far from 1/3, isn't it?

Edited by ingmanc 2017-01-05 4:36 PM
ingmanc
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-05 4:20 PM (#22310 - in reply to #22307) (#22310)Quote Reply Top




Posts: 33
20
Location: Italy
:-)

Edited by ingmanc 2017-01-05 4:21 PM
greenhorn
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-07 2:56 AM (#22313 - in reply to #22270) (#22313)Quote Reply Top


Kakuro Author

Posts: 127
10020
Location: Slovakia
I believe that Fred talked about official participants. It seems reasonable that the play-off should be for the A-team players only.
Yes, the finals in Senec were somewhat boring. Doing the play-offs without cameras is meaningless.
forcolin
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-07 3:19 PM (#22316 - in reply to #22270) (#22316)Quote Reply Top





Posts: 107
100
Location: Italy
Playoffs should definitively be for official participants only. Having eventually taken part to playoffs this year I can confirm it has been extremely exciting (from my point of view) and the number of players admitted should be increased to give more players the taste of it, without the need to wait to be 50 or over. I remember in Minsk the number of players admitted to the playoffs of the WPC was 17 and the event was managed very well. However I admit that in Senec the audience was not involved enough
There must be consistency in what we do. Playoffs were introduced to make more spectacular the event with the aim of making it more attractive for media; consequently, the playoffs should be videoed and broadcast for the audience (and potentially for TV recording/broadcasting). It will be an essential instrument for the newly appointed director of the WPF if he will have to find sponsors. I wasn't there but I was told that the format of the playoffs held in Philadelphia was the best so far.
Playoffs require different skills from the remainder of the championship. You can't choose any more,you have to solve all the puzzles you have in front, and this is why sometimes the playoffs give different results from the qualification tournement. Playoffs on flipcharts will add another variable to the more classical format used in Senec and will require even broader skills. Why not. As long as it will be spectacular.

prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-08 10:46 AM (#22318 - in reply to #22270) (#22318)Quote Reply Top


WSPC Organizer

Posts: 1178
1000100202020
Location: India
On behalf of the organizers, I wish to add some points to the discussion.
For one thing, we have an evening event of a Player vs Player knockout tournament planned in order to create a spectacle and provide people with a different kind of outlet. We have a set system for this kind of event which we tried out in the offline finals of Sudoku Mahabharat last year, and it proved to be very efficient and a lot of fun for all involved. So as far as the 'fun' element goes, we're very much aware and prepared for the need to provide something extra.

The more important fact we discussed is that, right now, even going by the replies here, the WSC WPC playoffs have been and are still in a constant state of experimentation. There is still not a sure-fire system which everyone agrees on, and more importantly, which works in terms of bringing in sponsors and getting interest in the event from outsiders, which is the main purpose in our opinion. So the simple question is, should we subject the world's top solvers to an experimental process across two competitions, both the GP as well as the WSPC, while we are still without much input in terms of results from these experiments and a set plan of action to use them?

The Player vs Player knockout tournament, for instance, is much more conducive to experimentation, as a fun event, and is also more conducive to getting sponsors/public interested. It doesn't seem like it would be a big difference to a sponsor or an outsider that a video is "WSC/WPC playoff" or "an event at the WSC/WPC" and a direct knockout format which gets everyone involved will provide the full scope of the event in a way that will probably be grasped more easily by an outsider.
Guest
Subject: RE: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-12 4:00 PM (#22332 - in reply to #22270) (#22332)Quote Reply Top


Play off will be better in my opinion
WaterlooMathie
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-14 8:09 AM (#22340 - in reply to #22270) (#22340)Quote Reply Top




Posts: 10

Location: Canada
I think the playoffs should be included if the solving could be broadcast live to an audience or if it's done on large boards/grid such as in Beijing with the final 2. If playoffs aren't used, then perhaps later rounds should be worth extra points to allow for more movement in the standings.
greenhorn
Subject: Re: Playoffs at WSC/WPC 2017 @ 2017-01-15 5:47 AM (#22343 - in reply to #22340) (#22343)Quote Reply Top


Kakuro Author

Posts: 127
10020
Location: Slovakia
WaterlooMathie - 2017-01-14 8:09 AM

Perhaps later rounds should be worth extra points to allow for more movement in the standings.


Oh no, this is not a smart idea :(

EDIT: Now I am not sure, if I understand it correctly... Did you mean harder puzzles/rounds with more points at the end of the championship or rounds where the points will be inflated (as in the last race of the F1 championship)?
Neither does make sense to me...

Edited by greenhorn 2017-01-15 5:55 AM
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