Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021

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prasanna16391
Subject: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-27 11:46 PM (#29191) (#29191) Top


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Link for rules and other details about Puzzle Ramayan: http://logicmastersindia.com/PR/2021pr.asp
The Instruction booklet available on Submission Page: https://logicmastersindia.com/live/?contest=PR202105


prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-28 12:19 AM (#29192 - in reply to #29191) (#29192) Top


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Notes

- Please give us feedback if you'd like to see the answer key section divided towards each solution instead of this format, we will implement it from the next round.
- We have composite modes for Star Battle, Minesweeper, Akari that are geared specifically for those puzzles. We've used a tab between shape (for crosses) and YinYang Composite for Dosun-Fuwari and its variant. Myopia(Shapes) is defaulted to surface, and Statue Park is tabbed between surface and YinYang Composite to give solvers either option.

priyambhushan
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-28 12:19 AM (#29193 - in reply to #29191) (#29193) Top


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I'm very grateful to LMI for providing me the opportunity to author my own PR round this year. I was very excited about the project, but unfortunately in March I contracted COVID-19, had quite severe illness, and I still have not mostly recovered from it. Unable to progress with the puzzles, I was lucky enough to get help from Prasanna to complete the round. We have put this round together (with a lot of last minute work from him), hoping you guys like it!
I am sorry for the troubles caused, and very thankful to Prasanna for making it happen finally.
All the best for the round, stay safe, and take care, you guys! Lots of love!
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-28 2:29 AM (#29195 - in reply to #29191) (#29195) Top


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The Dosun-Fuwari example had 2 solutions. It should be fixed now, IB re-uploaded.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-28 3:16 AM (#29199 - in reply to #29191) (#29199) Top


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Note: Pending solution booklets (R1, R2, R4) have all been linked to in their respective discussion threads. Just thought I'd mention here since people are likely to see it. Apologies for the delay with posting them.
Timjamiller
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-28 9:31 AM (#29202 - in reply to #29191) (#29202) Top




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I think that the instructions in Dosun-Fuwari Park need some clarification. As it's written, I don't see a conflict between the solution given and the solution that would happen if the bottom-right-most black L would move 2 upwards. Every shape would have at least one ball above another iron ball.

The statement that each room contains one balloon and one iron ball is also concerning, as the solution shows 3 balls and 4 balloons per region.

Perhaps something along the lines of "groups of iron balls" and "groups of balloons" could be implemented--each room contains one group of balloons and one group of iron balls. And then something like: At least one cell of the group/shape is immediately under black cells, other balloon groups, or the upper grid border.

I understand the intent of the rules, having seen similar puzzles before, but can sense a lot of potential petitions with the instructions as written.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-28 1:48 PM (#29203 - in reply to #29202) (#29203) Top


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Timjamiller - 2021-04-28 9:31 AM

I think that the instructions in Dosun-Fuwari Park need some clarification. As it's written, I don't see a conflict between the solution given and the solution that would happen if the bottom-right-most black L would move 2 upwards. Every shape would have at least one ball above another iron ball.

The statement that each room contains one balloon and one iron ball is also concerning, as the solution shows 3 balls and 4 balloons per region.


The first sentence of the rules describes balloons as "white circle shapes" and balls as "black circle shapes". The 'shapes' bit is underlined to show that that description of balloons and balls is different from regular Dosun-Fuwari. I am open to suggestions to make it clearer but I want to know if this addresses your concern, and if not, why it doesn't.
Joo M.Y
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-28 3:55 PM (#29204 - in reply to #29191) (#29204) Top




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10 ~ 12. Myopia (Shapes)
I found better name 'Polytopia', which is appeared on Swiss WPC Qual 2017.
https://logic-masters.de/Wettbewerbe/CE/wettbewerb.php?chlang=en&id=...

or what about Polypia? (I confused Loop puzzle category...)

Edited by Joo M.Y 2021-04-28 4:10 PM
auroux
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-29 9:31 PM (#29209 - in reply to #29202) (#29209) Top


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Timjamiller - 2021-04-27 8:31 PMI think that the instructions in Dosun-Fuwari Park need some clarification. As it's written, I don't see a conflict between the solution given and the solution that would happen if the bottom-right-most black L would move 2 upwards. Every shape would have at least one ball above another iron ball.
I agree with the rest of your post, concerning the overall fairly confusing language in these instructions (but overall it's just barely clear enough that I got it right and was able to confirm using the example). But regarding what happens if you move the bottom-right-most black L shape upwards by 2, then this isn't a valid solution anymore, since the other black L shape that is currently resting on it would no longer be supported -- none of its iron balls is supported if you remove the black ball in R6C5.Since we're complaining about this puzzle, I must say my main concern about confusing rules is that this one doesn't allow white and black to touch, while the basic puzzle Dosun-Fuwari allows them to touch... and my biggest concern about both types overall is that the coding of solutions by 012 seems poorly designed. - for empty, o for balloon, * for ball would be more logical / easier to remember. Or - ^ v (things that go up and things that go down). Oh well. 012 it is.

Edited by auroux 2021-04-29 9:35 PM
Timjamiller
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-29 11:38 PM (#29210 - in reply to #29209) (#29210) Top




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I was under the impression earlier that the "iron ball" identified an individual circle, instead of the entire shape. Under that, I saw that any of those entire shapes in the example puzzle could be "unsupported". As such, one of the individual circles here would be directly above another individual circle (in the same linked collection) and I didn't see how the ruleset precluded that.

It has since been made clear to me that the "iron ball" is intended to be the entirety of the linked dark circles, as the "balloon" is intended to be the entirety of the linked light circles. But that's where I was coming from with that observation.

Edited by Timjamiller 2021-04-29 11:40 PM
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-29 11:49 PM (#29211 - in reply to #29191) (#29211) Top


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Re: Alternate keys, I just figured 012 are closest together on a keyboard :) For me that would be easiest but I take your point. I don't want to mess with the system changing things right now. I'll keep it in mind if I see a puzzle like this in the future.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-29 11:56 PM (#29212 - in reply to #29191) (#29212) Top


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Puzzle Booklet available


The password protected Puzzle Booklet is now available to download on the submission page.

montelucci
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-30 3:25 AM (#29215 - in reply to #29191) (#29215) Top



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I think th

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Administrator
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-30 3:55 AM (#29216 - in reply to #29215) (#29216) Top


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Thank you

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Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-30 3:58 AM (#29217 - in reply to #29191) (#29217) Top


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Important


Puzzle 18 has 2 solutions. The issue does not affect the key, so the puzzle will stay unchanged.

sstackho
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-30 7:33 AM (#29221 - in reply to #29191) (#29221) Top




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In the Dosun-Fuwari Park example in the IB, would it be a valid solution if the balloons in the solution in cells B2:E2 (Excel notation) were instead moved to B2:B5?
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-30 11:59 AM (#29225 - in reply to #29191) (#29225) Top


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Sstackho:
In that case the balloon shares an edge with the ball piece in B6 which is not allowed.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-30 2:43 PM (#29226 - in reply to #29215) (#29226) Top


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mon

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Dux
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-04-30 7:10 PM (#29229 - in reply to #29191) (#29229) Top




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I am so ha

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ropeko
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-01 3:08 PM (#29239 - in reply to #29191) (#29239) Top




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Not too di

Edited by ropeko 2021-05-01 3:08 PM


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swaroop2011
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-02 3:09 AM (#29242 - in reply to #29191) (#29242) Top


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Wonderfull

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Timjamiller
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-02 5:59 AM (#29243 - in reply to #29191) (#29243) Top




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Uh...the l

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prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-02 6:34 AM (#29244 - in reply to #29243) (#29244) Top


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Tim

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GaS
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-02 5:13 PM (#29245 - in reply to #29191) (#29245) Top




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Hi All, ju

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vopani
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-02 7:14 PM (#29246 - in reply to #29191) (#29246) Top


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prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-03 3:56 AM (#29247 - in reply to #29245) (#29247) Top


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GaS

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rajeshk
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-04 6:41 PM (#29248 - in reply to #29191) (#29248) Top


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I have doubt regarding Dosun-Fuwari Park as below
Do we need only one of the given shapes for the regions? or different regions can contain different shapes. Given example uses only one shape but the instruction does not prohibit different regions from using the different shapes. Please clarify this.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-04 8:37 PM (#29249 - in reply to #29248) (#29249) Top


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rajeshk - 2021-05-04 6:41 PM

I have doubt regarding Dosun-Fuwari Park as below
Do we need only one of the given shapes for the regions? or different regions can contain different shapes. Given example uses only one shape but the instruction does not prohibit different regions from using the different shapes. Please clarify this.


Different regions can have different shapes within the allowances below. In the example, you could have had the 2x2 ball replacing the trimino ball in any region if it didn't violate other rules.
Madmahogany
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-05 6:39 PM (#29252 - in reply to #29191) (#29252) Top




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Thank you

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rajeshk
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-06 8:48 AM (#29253 - in reply to #29191) (#29253) Top


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Nice set o

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vjain9
Subject: Re: Object Placement - 30th Apr - 5th May 2021 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-05-06 10:43 AM (#29254 - in reply to #29191) (#29254) Top




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Yes Prasan

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