Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16
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Subject: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2015-07-17 11:09 AM (#18769) (#18769) Top


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devarajand
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-07-17 3:33 PM (#18777 - in reply to #18769) (#18777) Top




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Double treat.
lenson
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-07-17 10:27 PM (#18782 - in reply to #18769) (#18782) Top





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Nice! Looking forward to it.
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Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-07-28 6:08 PM (#18859 - in reply to #18769) (#18859) Top


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About - Indian Sudoku Championship - 2016


Logic Masters India (LMI) is conducting the Indian Sudoku Championship (ISC) 2016 (tentatively) in July-2016. Unlike the last few years, the format is different, as the qualification for the ISC will begin in August 2015.

There will be a series of eight online rounds (similar to last year's Sudoku Mahabharat), which act as a qualifier for the offline national finals. The Top-50 players from the online rounds will qualify for the finals. Provisions will be made for a deserving Indian performer not living in India to get on the National team. There will also be a system to reward newcomers & inexperienced solvers to preserve the essence of Sudoku Mahabharat. This may include having separate criteria for the Mahabharat winner and the ISC winner.

More details will be announced soon.

sanket.saxena
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-07-29 11:56 AM (#18869 - in reply to #18769) (#18869) Top




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Good initiative but now it means both TSC and ISC finals will be offline and it will be held at specific cities which will not give chance to all the participant to participate in ISC next year.
rvarun
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-07-29 12:41 PM (#18870 - in reply to #18869) (#18870) Top




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sanket.saxena - 2015-07-29 11:56 AM

Good initiative but now it means both TSC and ISC finals will be offline and it will be held at specific cities which will not give chance to all the participant to participate in ISC next year.


Hi Sanket. TSC will be under Times of India prerogative and the venues are decided by them But ISC is still a pan India online event with eight rounds instead of a single ISC. The finals alone will be held in a specific city. This can be considered an opportunity for all of us to meet with other like minded people sharing the same interest across the country.
sanket.saxena
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-07-29 12:53 PM (#18872 - in reply to #18870) (#18872) Top




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Hi Varun, I got your point but suppose If finals will be held in specific city like this year it was in Bangalore then people from Delhi/North will not prefer to travel and will skip the finals.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-07-29 6:59 PM (#18874 - in reply to #18872) (#18874) Top


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sanket.saxena - 2015-07-29 12:53 PM

Hi Varun, I got your point but suppose If finals will be held in specific city like this year it was in Bangalore then people from Delhi/North will not prefer to travel and will skip the finals.


This is true, but in the long term, the best way to expand is to have our own offline National events - we can't always rely on the same partnerships, we need to seek out new ones and expand.

Also, the 8 online rounds roughly help a person know where they stand and give them a lot to enjoy before the finals, which is unlike TSC and more like GP vs WSC. The top 10 of the GP cannot always travel to the offline playoffs & WSC.

There have been many debates in the past over offline vs online. The problems go both ways. Some solvers will tell you how they have printer issues/internet issues/electricity issues/etc. but are fine with traveling once a year within India to participate. With an online ISC the window needs to be minimal (e.g. 2 PM to 4:45 PM in recent years), and that is very demanding of participants. Each year some top Indian solvers compete in 'unofficial time', and at least one or two will have issues within the official timeline eating into their scores. The Mahabharat format has more leeway on timeline of participation because we always know we can prove whether someone is a genuine solver in the finals, which is in itself, hopefully, enough incentive to play fairly.

More than anything, having offline Nationals will give more chances to attract awareness/publicity, and also build LMI's reputation for bigger plans ahead. There are always some players who suffer from the format, be it online or offline, which is very unfortunate, but by keeping it offline, at least we are giving ourselves more of a chance to grow.
devarajand
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-07-29 7:20 PM (#18875 - in reply to #18769) (#18875) Top




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Offline finals is a big step forward. It is time for us to stand behind the organizers and support their initiative. It is also time to share the financial burden of the organizer among us, till alternate arrangements are made.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-15 12:22 AM (#19046 - in reply to #18769) (#19046) Top


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More details here -

http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2015-16sm.asp

Note that this is an early stage for the details, and things may be changed/updated soon (like a participation fee for offline finals, more clarification on prizes for ISC/Mahabharat respectively, etc.). At this stage the more important point was to get out the schedule and general structure of the online rounds since the first round is next weekend, so this page is being shared mainly for that purpose. We are working on more specifics and the Puzzle Ramayan page should also be up shortly.
dp_94
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-20 9:56 AM (#19087 - in reply to #18769) (#19087) Top




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The best place for finals should be Kurukshetra since the Mahabharata also happened there :P

But seriously the finals of such events always happens in Bangalore, Hyderabad or Mumbai.

I know the Sudoku population in Delhi/North is very less as compared to South and Mumbai ,but if finals events like this happen in Delhi/North region it would be a very good chance to introduce new people from these regions also. :)
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-20 2:38 PM (#19100 - in reply to #19087) (#19100) Top


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dp_94 - 2015-08-20 9:56 AM

I know the Sudoku population in Delhi/North is very less as compared to South and Mumbai ,but if finals events like this happen in Delhi/North region it would be a very good chance to introduce new people from these regions also. :)


The biggest factor isn't the general Sudoku population, it is the number of capable people who can put in the time and effort required to manage the logistics in that city. Deb, me and Rohan spent a good chunk of 5-6 weekends (at least, quite certain it was more) looking at potential venues, talking about the requirements and costs with the ones in charge of each venue, and had a constant line of communication going among ourselves for everything. There would probably be hundred emails between us discussing just the logistics part of the finals.

Someone needs to step up and show that they can do that in other cities, maybe by organizing meets, volunteering for other LMI events in the area, and so on. One example of this is in Chennai, where Rakesh, Varun and others took the initiative to start having meets, and before that, did a lot of groundwork for Sudoku Champs. By doing these things they gradually increase their general population too, and also give us confidence to say we can hold an event in that city. But without such efforts, there is no indication for us that we can remotely manage things with the logistics being handled locally, which puts the smooth running of the finals in huge doubt.

Note: I am only talking about events where LMI has a say in venue, like Sudoku Mahabharat, Sudoku Champs, etc. TSC doesn't count because the venues are decided by ToI.
mayank
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-21 5:23 PM (#19114 - in reply to #18769) (#19114) Top




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wht happens if i miss a round. wont be in the country for round 2 and i think that will make a dent to the chances i may have in the best 6 out of 8. there should be an alternate plan also if someone misses a round and wants to compete
kishy72
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-21 5:55 PM (#19115 - in reply to #19114) (#19115) Top




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mayank - 2015-08-21 5:23 PM

wht happens if i miss a round. wont be in the country for round 2 and i think that will make a dent to the chances i may have .


That's precisely one of the reasons for considering the best 6 scores .The discard may include an unattempted test in which case your best 6 of 7 will be considered.Imagine a scenario if the rankings were to consider all 8 tests instead of 6.So,basically what I am trying to say is that the leeway has already been established for anyone who may be forced to miss a test or 2......

prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-21 10:46 PM (#19117 - in reply to #19115) (#19117) Top


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kishy72 - 2015-08-21 5:55 PM

mayank - 2015-08-21 5:23 PM

wht happens if i miss a round. wont be in the country for round 2 and i think that will make a dent to the chances i may have .


That's precisely one of the reasons for considering the best 6 scores .The discard may include an unattempted test in which case your best 6 of 7 will be considered.Imagine a scenario if the rankings were to consider all 8 tests instead of 6.So,basically what I am trying to say is that the leeway has already been established for anyone who may be forced to miss a test or 2......



Yea, consider also that all authors miss one round by default. I think 6 out of 8 is exactly the right leeway. Anything more would mean the top 50 aren't tested enough.
rajeshk
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 1:37 PM (#19172 - in reply to #18769) (#19172) Top


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I have doubt regarding "Special Case Team Selection"
Who is considered qualifying for this after coming in top 3?
1. A person staying outside India for the period of 8 rounds i.e. till March 2016.
2. A person staying in India for 8 rounds i.e. till March 2016. However person needs to travel during the finals in July 2016 outside India.
3. A person who is having genuine reason for not able to travel for finals in July 2016. It may be due to some medical emergency or other reasons.

There is gap of 4 months at the end of last online round and offline round. Person who is not able to attend finals can come in top 3 after 8 rounds i.e. March 2016 and he/she becomes sure to be part of India A team in March 2016 itself. However others even if someone is in top 4 cannot be sure of part of India A team till finals in July 2016 happens.

My suggestion will be that person not attending offline finals and coming in top 3 can be made part of India B team and let the India A team be selected from offline finals.

Writing this so that other can put views on this procedure.

lenson
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 1:58 PM (#19173 - in reply to #18769) (#19173) Top





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If I read the rules correctly, only 1 person will be given that leeway. So coming in the top 3 alone is not sufficient to make it to the A team; they need to be 1st.

But yes, there is a perverse incentive there for the person who comes 1st to not attend the offline finals. This is just theory, though.
rajeshk
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 3:54 PM (#19174 - in reply to #19173) (#19174) Top


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lenson - 2015-08-26 1:58 PM

If I read the rules correctly, only 1 person will be given that leeway. So coming in the top 3 alone is not sufficient to make it to the A team; they need to be 1st.

But yes, there is a perverse incentive there for the person who comes 1st to not attend the offline finals. This is just theory, though.


As far as I could understand rules if a person comes 3rd and he/she is the only one who in top 3 which could not attend finals due to genuine reasons will be given wild card in Team-A and there will be another wild card for the best performing players at WSC/WPC. So in this case only two slots will be left to fight for during offline finals.
There is gap of around 4 months between the end of last online round and offline finals. This gap is good enough for a 4th rank player to improve and come in top 3. However with this rule 4th ranked players has to fight for top 2 slots.

Edited by rajeshk 2015-08-26 3:55 PM
kishy72
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 4:06 PM (#19175 - in reply to #19172) (#19175) Top




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rajeshk - 2015-08-26 1:37 PM

I have doubt regarding "Special Case Team Selection"
Who is considered qualifying for this after coming in top 3?
1. A person staying outside India for the period of 8 rounds i.e. till March 2016.
2. A person staying in India for 8 rounds i.e. till March 2016. However person needs to travel during the finals in July 2016 outside India.


Doesn't matter if they stay inside India or outside India during the course of the 8 online rounds.All that matters is DURING the offline finals ,if a person who is in the top 3(after 8 online rounds)is outside India then he/she is eligible for a wild-card.

3. A person who is having genuine reason for not able to travel for finals in July 2016. It may be due to some medical emergency or other reasons.


Here, I am quoting the Special case Team Selection for clarity ." If an Indian citizen is living outside India and cannot attend the offline finals due to THIS REASON , AND that Indian is in the National top 3 after the 8 online rounds,that Indian will get a wild card into the National A-team ".There is no mention of such thing like medical emergency or any genuine reasons as such.The only scenario where the wild card can be availed IS when the person is out of India during offline finals.

My suggestion will be that person not attending offline finals and coming in top 3 can be made part of India B team and let the India A team be selected from offline finals.


Seems fair enough.However,the organizers must have their own line of reasoning for making this the way it is and which may be something on the following lines.A person who is good enough to be in top-3 in a contest over a duration of 8 months is certainly good enough to fit in the Top-4 irrelevant of the performance he may put in the offline finals.


kishy72
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 4:13 PM (#19176 - in reply to #19173) (#19176) Top




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lenson - 2015-08-26 1:58 PM

If I read the rules correctly, only 1 person will be given that leeway. So coming in the top 3 alone is not sufficient to make it to the A team; they need to be 1st.



There is no mention that he/she needs to be 1st .It only states that a top-3 spot is good enough for the wild card for a person outside India.ONLY,in the case where there are 2 Indians outside India and who are in top-3,then the better ranked Indian after 8 rounds will avail the Wild Card.

The position in the top-3 is irrelevant.
rajeshk
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 4:29 PM (#19177 - in reply to #19175) (#19177) Top


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kishy72 - 2015-08-26 4:06 PM

Seems fair enough.However,the organizers must have their own line of reasoning for making this the way it is and which may be something on the following lines.A person who is good enough to be in top-3 in a contest over a duration of 8 months is certainly good enough to fit in the Top-4 irrelevant of the performance he may put in the offline finals.



This reasoning looks good. However one point we should also keep in mind that there is one more wild card for best performing player at WSC/WPC. Now suppose after WSC/WPC the top player who has already got wild card for Team A decides not to contest further in SM online rounds. In this case top-3 player will not be including best player at WSC/WPC and in actual 3rd ranked player may be 4th best player. In this case this rule will be more disappointing for the 4th player if the score gap between rank 3 and rank 4 is very less.
lenson
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 4:47 PM (#19178 - in reply to #19176) (#19178) Top





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kishy72 - 2015-08-26 4:13 PM
lenson - 2015-08-26 1:58 PMIf I read the rules correctly, only 1 person will be given that leeway. So coming in the top 3 alone is not sufficient to make it to the A team; they need to be 1st.
There is no mention that he/she needs to be 1st .
Coming 1st is a sufficient condition, not a necessary condition.

Edited by lenson 2015-08-26 4:50 PM
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 5:18 PM (#19179 - in reply to #18769) (#19179) Top


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We'll think about the views put forward here but I'll just highlight few points from our thought process behind the special case team selection.
1. Understand that the offline finals are both to crown a Mahabharat winner and be a part of the team selection. Keywords being 'a part of'. There is precedence here where other countries also have multiple different tournaments offering 1/2 spots on the team. So it is not unheard of to compete for 2 spots at a National final if the reasoning is good for the 2 spots which are taken.

2. I think we should encourage as many people as possible to participate in the offline finals. The main reason the wildcard rule is in place isn't so much that X person gets a free spot on the team as it is that X person should chip in with organization. So considering that as a necessity, we just wanted to make sure that some provision is made for someone who cannot attend the finals but is good enough to be on the team. If you prove a level over 8 rounds, and you genuinely cannot make it to the finals, the team is, at least on paper, weakened if you miss out. Combining this with the desire to encourage as many participants as possible in the offline finals, which are admittedly two conflicting thought processes, we thought of this rule.

3. We want to build a scenario where attending the offline finals is in itself a great experience, since it is a major event in itself, and we encourage all the participants to view it that way too, considering that the first Sudoku Mahabharat went smoothly and got some good feedback. So considering that, if we start thinking of people exploiting reasons to avoid attending the National finals, or having the thought process of 'I didn't make it so I am too disappointed to attend the finals', then we are looking at people who won't have the enthusiasm to get into the top rankings anyway. This is a chance to build our own annual offline event which is in itself very meaningful to attend.

4. I think medical emergency is a valid reason to miss the finals, but may bring up too many complications (off the top of my head, how long the emergency lasts, will it affect the participant towards the WSC/WPC too, how far do we go to define 'medical emergency', etc.). Not being in the country around the time of the offline finals is a definable reason which is easy to prove and won't affect a person's participation in the WSC/WPC (and if it does, they can communicate as much before the finals, and the spot can be up for grabs).

Also,
"This reasoning looks good. However one point we should also keep in mind that there is one more wild card for best performing player at WSC/WPC. Now suppose after WSC/WPC the top player who has already got wild card for Team A decides not to contest further in SM online rounds. In this case top-3 player will not be including best player at WSC/WPC and in actual 3rd ranked player may be 4th best player. In this case this rule will be more disappointing for the 4th player if the score gap between rank 3 and rank 4 is very less."

I don't understand this. The team is of 4 players. So even if X is the 4th best player in India, he deserves to be on the team right? Gap being less between rankings will always be disappointing, even if these two competitors went to the offline finals and competed.
kishy72
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 5:22 PM (#19180 - in reply to #19178) (#19180) Top




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lenson - 2015-08-26 1:58 PM

So coming in the top 3 alone is not sufficient to make it to the A team; they need to be 1st.



Coming 1st is a sufficient condition, not a necessary condition.


Your first post suggested quite the contrary of what you stated now.That's why I clarified.Obviously, it is apparent from my posts that being 1st is not a pre-requisite.A top 3 slot alone is sufficient for a wild card for someone out of India during offline finals.
rajeshk
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 5:51 PM (#19182 - in reply to #19179) (#19182) Top


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prasanna16391 - 2015-08-26 5:18 PM

Also,
"This reasoning looks good. However one point we should also keep in mind that there is one more wild card for best performing player at WSC/WPC. Now suppose after WSC/WPC the top player who has already got wild card for Team A decides not to contest further in SM online rounds. In this case top-3 player will not be including best player at WSC/WPC and in actual 3rd ranked player may be 4th best player. In this case this rule will be more disappointing for the 4th player if the score gap between rank 3 and rank 4 is very less."

I don't understand this. The team is of 4 players. So even if X is the 4th best player in India, he deserves to be on the team right? Gap being less between rankings will always be disappointing, even if these two competitors went to the offline finals and competed.


Lets assume A, B, C, D and E are top 5 players. "A" being the best player at WSC/WPC 2015 decides not to compete in SM as he/she has got wild card entry for WSC/WPC 2016. Now assume that at the end of 8 rounds in March 2106 ranks of B, C, D and E are 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th respectively. Gap between the 3rd ranked D and 4th ranked E is very less.
There is great possibility that after 4 months during offline final in July 2016 E can score better than D. However if D is given wild card entry because of this rule, then B, C and E will be fighting for top 2 slots to be in team. So at this point of time E is better than D but still can't make it to team if he/she can't beat B or C.
In the same case in case E is able to beat B or C. then B or C is not part of team even though B or C is able to beat D in online competition.
Hope it make it clear or should I give you call to explain this :)
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 6:11 PM (#19185 - in reply to #19182) (#19185) Top


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rajeshk - 2015-08-26 5:51 PM

Lets assume A, B, C, D and E are top 5 players. "A" being the best player at WSC/WPC 2015 decides not to compete in SM as he/she has got wild card entry for WSC/WPC 2016. Now assume that at the end of 8 rounds in March 2106 ranks of B, C, D and E are 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th respectively. Gap between the 3rd ranked D and 4th ranked E is very less.
There is great possibility that after 4 months during offline final in July 2016 E can score better than D. However if D is given wild card entry because of this rule, then B, C and E will be fighting for top 2 slots to be in team. So at this point of time E is better than D but still can't make it to team if he/she can't beat B or C.
In the same case in case E is able to beat B or C. then B or C is not part of team even though B or C is able to beat D in online competition.



Its not that I didn't understand the scenario, its that I didn't (and don't) understand how that can be defined into the rules or why it is a problem only in this set of rules. This same scenario applies to ISC/TSC every year, be it 4 months or 2 months or 2 weeks between rounds. What is a defined amount of time for a player to improve? Have the best 4 of ISC/IPC always been the best 4 at the WSC/WPC? The moment you say, in a given amount of time, D could become better than C, that statement could be true no matter what the amount of time is, and how C and D are chosen. It relies more on individuals varying, than establishing/defining a system. It is the exact same as me saying that C could improve even beyond A and B and be good enough to be World Champion. It could happen, but it doesn't help defining a rule. In the end, for the rules what we can establish is, at a given point of time, A is better than B, and so gets on the team. That is the case every year, no matter the format, unless we have an offline ISC a few days before the WSC.
amitsowani
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-08-26 6:54 PM (#19186 - in reply to #19185) (#19186) Top



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One more point for organising the event in this format is that we want participants hopeful of making it to the national team to participate around the year. So even the wild cards (toppers from previous WSC/WPC) need to participate in as many of the tournaments as possible to justify their wild card position.
And so you will see Rohan participating in the Sudoku Mahabharat and Prasanna in the Puzzle Ramayan's


Also we definitely want all the top participants to definitely participate in the offline finals and are planning to sponsor travel for top X (number yet to be finalized) participants for the finals. This however will not be possible for Indian participants abroad. Hence the special rule is in place.



rajeshk
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-10-02 8:05 PM (#19545 - in reply to #18769) (#19545) Top


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Sorry to re-start this discussion again. There is no such rule which specifies that best players at WSC/WPC 2015 will have to participate in SM/PR.
Currently we are giving two wild card entries. One for best players at WSC/WPC 2015 and another for top 3 NRI player. My suggestion is both these wild card can be given based upon performance in SM/PR. One for best player at SM/PR and another for top 3 NRI player after 8 rounds . This format will force best players at WSC/WPC 2015 to participate in SM/PR and hence continuous improve his/her performance as well making PR/SM more competitive.
vopani
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-10-02 11:57 PM (#19546 - in reply to #19545) (#19546) Top


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rajeshk - 2015-10-02 8:05 PM

Sorry to re-start this discussion again. There is no such rule which specifies that best players at WSC/WPC 2015 will have to participate in SM/PR.

That's right. There is a reason. We're hoping the best Indian at WSC/WPC will most probably be part of the organizing team for SM/PR. It is very difficult and demanding for Deb to organize everything alone. In fact, it is almost certain that he does not have time/bandwidth to organize it himself, especially the finals.
Hence, that player will not be able to participate in the finals, and rightly receives a wild card for next year.

Currently we are giving two wild card entries. One for best players at WSC/WPC 2015 and another for top 3 NRI player. My suggestion is both these wild card can be given based upon performance in SM/PR. One for best player at SM/PR and another for top 3 NRI player after 8 rounds . This format will force best players at WSC/WPC 2015 to participate in SM/PR and hence continuous improve his/her performance as well making PR/SM more competitive.

I think you have misunderstood this. 'Two' wild card entries are not guaranteed.
If none of the top-3 Indians in SM/PR are living abroad, there will not be wild card for these players.

Also, I'm sure all the WC participants from India are going to participate in all the SM/PR rounds (except maybe Rishi).
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-10-03 12:33 AM (#19547 - in reply to #19546) (#19547) Top


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Rohan Rao - 2015-10-02 11:57 PM

That's right. There is a reason. We're hoping the best Indian at WSC/WPC will most probably be part of the organizing team for SM/PR. It is very difficult and demanding for Deb to organize everything alone. In fact, it is almost certain that he does not have time/bandwidth to organize it himself, especially the finals.
Hence, that player will not be able to participate in the finals, and rightly receives a wild card for next year.



Adding to this, we also shouldn't have a system that is fully dependent on one person, whoever that person is. If that person is unable, then what? We cancel it? I am sure that is not good for competitiveness of SM/PR. So it is best to have a team, even if it is only a team of 2.

Also, the wildcard is given for best WSC/WPC performer because that is the final hurdle and it is, in a way, a reward for someone who has done well while representing their country in that final hurdle. The NRI wildcard is given to preserve the team strength in a special case scenario. The two goals are completely different, where one is a reward of sorts (I say of sorts, because as Rohan said, it is a hope that this person also helps in organization) and the other is a necessity to an extent. So there need not be a uniformity in the reasons for these wildcards.
rajeshk
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 - Coming soon @ 2015-10-03 1:18 AM (#19548 - in reply to #18769) (#19548) Top


Object Placement (PR 2015/16) Author

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Thanks Rohan and Prasanna for explaining it in detail.
Administrator
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2015-11-02 12:29 AM (#19749 - in reply to #18769) (#19749) Top


200010020

Update - Wild Card

Following his impressive 7th place finish in the 10th World Sudoku Championship in Sofia, Bulgaria, Prasanna Seshadri gets a wildcard into the Indian A team for the 11th WSC in Slovakia, and won't be eligible for the Sudoku Mahabharat leader-board and finals.

Administrator
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2015-11-02 12:34 AM (#19751 - in reply to #18769) (#19751) Top


200010020

Update - Scoring system

After the first 3 rounds, we have noticed that it is very difficult to maintain a consistent difficulty level across rounds. This means, under the current scoring system, some rounds will become discards by default, which negates the discard advantages. So, we have decided to alter the scoring system to scale the scores in comparison to the best score for each round, starting at 100 and going lower. For the Sudoku Mahabharat rankings, it will be the best Indian score among eligible players. For the International rankings it will be the best score in the round.



Administrator
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2015-11-02 10:20 AM (#19753 - in reply to #18769) (#19753) Top


200010020
Ranks updated : http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2015-16-ranks.asp
Administrator
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-01-27 5:23 PM (#20823 - in reply to #18769) (#20823) Top


200010020
Points table updated after excluding worst two rounds.

Indians: http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2015-16-ranks.asp
International: http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2015-16-ranks.asp?all=1
Administrator
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-02-16 3:27 PM (#21015 - in reply to #18769) (#21015) Top


200010020
Ranks updated after Converse Variations

Indians: http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2015-16-ranks.asp
International: http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2015-16-ranks.asp?all=1
sanket.saxena
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-02-26 8:05 AM (#21115 - in reply to #18769) (#21115) Top




Posts: 48
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When will the finals venue and dates be decided?

Edited by sanket.saxena 2016-02-26 8:08 AM
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-02-26 3:14 PM (#21118 - in reply to #21115) (#21118) Top


WSPC Organizer

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sanket.saxena - 2016-02-26 8:05 AM

When will the finals venue and dates be decided?


We are working on it. Since we plan for the finals to be around July (based on last year we wanted participants to have enough time after the 8 rounds to decide and finalize their trip), I think its not a problem if the announcement takes a while longer.
Administrator
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-03-15 6:33 AM (#21263 - in reply to #18769) (#21263) Top


200010020
Ranks updated after Irregular Variations

Indians: http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2015-16-ranks.asp
International: http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2015-16-ranks.asp?all=1
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-05-03 7:28 PM (#21635 - in reply to #18769) (#21635) Top


WSPC Organizer

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Venue and details for offline finals


Please check here for the venue, dates, participation fee, and other necessary details about the offline finals of Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC 2016 here - http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2015-16sm-pr-finals.asp
Please note that the top 50 of SM can also participate in day two's Puzzle Ramayan event.
An email will be sent to the qualifiers shortly with an invite letter containing the same details.
Feel free to post any queries you may have here.


prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-05-04 1:07 AM (#21637 - in reply to #18769) (#21637) Top


WSPC Organizer

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Mails have been sent to the top 50 of SM. Please check your spam if you don't see it in your inbox and give us a reply.
rajgupta83
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-05-16 2:00 PM (#21650 - in reply to #18769) (#21650) Top


20
Location: India
Hi Can you please let me know when is TIMES SUDOKU CHAMPIONSHIP Going to held this year???....Sorry to post the query here
rakysh
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-05-16 10:09 PM (#21651 - in reply to #18769) (#21651) Top




Posts: 4

Location: India
Hi! I am new to LMI & I was unaware of Sudoku Mahabharat these all so, can I participate in SUDOKU MAHABHARAT finals which are going to held on july this year, and I am ready to give any test before that.Please help.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-05-17 11:01 AM (#21652 - in reply to #21651) (#21652) Top


WSPC Organizer

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rajgupta83 - 2016-05-16 2:00 PM

Hi Can you please let me know when is TIMES SUDOKU CHAMPIONSHIP Going to held this year???....Sorry to post the query here


If its not announced yet, that generally means its not confirmed yet :)

rakysh - 2016-05-16 10:09 PM

Hi! I am new to LMI & I was unaware of Sudoku Mahabharat these all so, can I participate in SUDOKU MAHABHARAT finals which are going to held on july this year, and I am ready to give any test before that.Please help.


Hi, welcome to LMI! We planned the Sudoku Mahabharat and Puzzle Ramayan events with 8 online rounds to encourage regular participation among Indians. Rewarding regularity is important to us. Also, it is unfair to participants who were told they needed to do 8 rounds to qualify and also unfair to those beyond the top 50 who didn't qualify if we grant entry to newcomers at this stage.

However, I suggest that you use this time to train and improve yourself because if you are new to LMI, then odds are you are new to variations and the difficulty that exists at the National level. With some hard work you can improve and maybe get a really good rank in future competitions. You can download all the online rounds of Sudoku Mahabharat as well as other LMI contests here - http://logicmastersindia.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=60&st... . Practice them and see how you fair at solving them. Feel free to ask doubts and queries on the forum if you are stuck at a particular variant or something. There will be more National level events coming up both this year and next year, probably including the Times Championship the other member asked about above, so you will surely get a chance to participate at some point, and its better to start preparing for that even if you were too late this time.
mikeylyk
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-05-24 12:30 PM (#21664 - in reply to #18769) (#21664) Top




Posts: 12

Location: usa
great answer (i'm a 3 yr newbie, and that is exactly what to say)
Administrator
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-06-08 9:17 AM (#21670 - in reply to #21664) (#21670) Top


200010020

List of confirmed participants for the Finals (so far)

Last updated on 15th June 2016



prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-06-09 5:55 AM (#21671 - in reply to #18769) (#21671) Top


WSPC Organizer

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Preliminary version of the Instruction booklet of Sudoku Mahabharat (Day 1) has been sent to participants.
Administrator
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-06-15 4:50 PM (#21676 - in reply to #21670) (#21676) Top


200010020
Updated list
Administrator
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-03 3:02 PM (#21726 - in reply to #21676) (#21726) Top


200010020

Final list of confirmed participants for the Finals



prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-09 9:40 AM (#21739 - in reply to #18769) (#21739) Top


WSPC Organizer

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Final version of SM IB has been sent to confirmed participants.
rvarun
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-14 10:05 PM (#21753 - in reply to #18769) (#21753) Top




Posts: 219
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Can someone explain Mirror Sudoku mentioned in Round 2.
vopani
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-14 10:22 PM (#21754 - in reply to #21753) (#21754) Top


WSPC Organizer

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rvarun - 2016-07-14 10:05 PM

Can someone explain Mirror Sudoku mentioned in Round 2.

It was there in the 6th round of SM: Twisted Classics.

Box-1 and Box-9 are mirrored about the centre.
Box-3 and Box-7 are mirrored about the centre.


Cells marked with same alphabets contain the same digit.
rvarun
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-15 11:23 AM (#21755 - in reply to #21754) (#21755) Top




Posts: 219
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Rohan Rao - 2016-07-14 10:22 PM

rvarun - 2016-07-14 10:05 PM

Can someone explain Mirror Sudoku mentioned in Round 2.

It was there in the 6th round of SM: Twisted Classics.

Box-1 and Box-9 are mirrored about the centre.
Box-3 and Box-7 are mirrored about the centre.

Cells marked with same alphabets contain the same digit.


Thanks Rohan. Bad that I have missed it in the prelims also. Is it always Box 1 and Box 9 mirrored and Box 3 and Box 7 mirrored. The Rules states
"The four corner boxes (top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right) all contain the same digit in symmetrical positions with respect to the center of the grid. "

How does all contain same digit in symmetrical positions with respect to centre of grid. Am I missing something in the Rules here.

Edited by rvarun 2016-07-15 11:23 AM
debmohanty
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-15 11:28 AM (#21756 - in reply to #21755) (#21756) Top



Test Co-ordinator

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Location: India
rvarun - 2016-07-15 11:23 AM

Is it always Box 1 and Box 9 mirrored and Box 3 and Box 7 mirrored.

Yes
debmohanty
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-15 11:33 AM (#21757 - in reply to #21756) (#21757) Top



Test Co-ordinator

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Location: India
Here is another way of looking at it. If you turn the solution by 180 degrees, digits still remain same in box 1, 3, 7, 9

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

rvarun
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-15 11:46 AM (#21758 - in reply to #21757) (#21758) Top




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debmohanty - 2016-07-15 11:33 AM

Here is another way of looking at it. If you turn the solution by 180 degrees, digits still remain same in box 1, 3, 7, 9



Thanks Deb. I am now able to follow how the digits in four boxes are symmetric. I had interpreted in some other way.
rvarun
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-17 7:46 AM (#21762 - in reply to #18769) (#21762) Top




Posts: 219
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Congratulations to the Top 3 of Indan Sudoku Championship 2016

1. Rohan Rao
2. Rakesh Rai
3. Kishore Kumar

Congratulations to the Top 3 of Sudoku Mahabharat Playoffs.

1. Akash Doulani
2. Gaurav Kumar Jain
3. Harmeet Singh
rvarun
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-17 7:50 AM (#21763 - in reply to #18769) (#21763) Top




Posts: 219
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Photos of Sudoku Mahabharat Playoffs and Prize Distribution.

https://goo.gl/photos/xf2v98ZJjrSrtrGt9
witty
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-17 8:02 AM (#21764 - in reply to #18769) (#21764) Top




Posts: 16

Location: India
Congratulations Rohan, Rakesh, and Kishore!!
swaroop2011
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-17 9:15 AM (#21765 - in reply to #18769) (#21765) Top


Shading (PR 2015/16) Author

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Nice Photos. Congrats to Winners.
devarajand
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-18 7:23 AM (#21769 - in reply to #18769) (#21769) Top




Posts: 106
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Location: India
It was fun, fun al the way.
Really I enjoyed the two days at Indian Sudoku and Puzzle Championships.
Thanks to Prasanna and Deb for organizing and coming up with great set of Puzzles; Special mention to the Surprise package Six or Half Dozen. I enjoyed this set more, Interestingly I scored well here.
Thanks to Varun, Rakesh Rai, Kishore, Ezhil, Ravichndran, Kumareshan, Ashish and other Chennai team members, sorry I could not remember the names for the dedicated and hard work put in.
Thanks to Mr. Vivek Jain and Sai karthic for sharing the room and spend some quality time with me.
The dinner on Saturday night was a special one.
Finally thanks to Amit for the little fun with card game at Chennai mall.
Congratulation to all winners.
I am sure those missed the lost a lot of fun and enjoyment.
Thanks to all other participants and volunteers too.
Eagerly Looking forward to the finals of the 2016/17 edition.
Bye.
rvarun
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-19 11:06 AM (#21778 - in reply to #21769) (#21778) Top




Posts: 219
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Thanks Devarajan for the nice review. Glad that you had a great time here in Chennai. :-)
Hemant Kr Malani
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-20 10:44 AM (#21780 - in reply to #18769) (#21780) Top




Posts: 25
20
Location: India
I had a great time at the two day event. Right from soup to nuts everything was amazing. Thanks to Prasanna, Deb, Varun, Rakesh sir, Ezhil, Ravi sir, Kumatesan sir, Ashish Kr and others for such a great event.
It was my first time at an offline event in India. I really enjoyed meeting so many great people together.
For the 1st time I participated in any Puzzle competition. The puzzles were really very interesting. Though I didn't have practise in puzzles and could not perform very well there the amazing set of puzzles have increased my interest in them.

My parents were very tensed about my going to a new city alone. But the Chennaiyans helped me a lot with that and I hardly faced any problem. Thanks a lot for that.
I also enjoyed the board game brought by Amit and the dinner thereafter.
Last but not the least, the special prize for U-21 was really amazing. Thanks a lot to Rohan for that.
kishy72
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-20 1:25 PM (#21781 - in reply to #21780) (#21781) Top




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The finals of SM and PR was a very enriching experience for me both as a participant and as one of the main organizers from the Chennai side.I am really glad that we could host the event without any hiccups and for the participants having fun time during the 2 days.Felicitations to Deb and Prasanna for the beautiful sudokus/puzzles during the contest and for the recreation round on both days which made sure that the steam of the event was not lost one bit even by the end of the day.Kudos to the 'super' juniors Pranav who knocked out Rohan in the Classic sudoku master and to Kartik for completing the Domino round first along with Harmeet.
Though I am slightly disappointed that I didn't put up a better performance in Round 4 of SM which would have given me a second,I am happy to have made the India A-Team along with Prasanna,Rohan and Rakesh .On the puzzle front ,I am satisfied with my show not to mention that it could have been way better too had it not been for the 100 or so points that I lost in silly errors.Special thanks to Deb for the bonus Goliath 18 grid interlinked Classic sudoku and to Prasanna for the coded 8 grid puzzle respectively both of which I am yet to solve :) .Hope to see you all soon !!

Kishore
akash.doulani
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-20 5:52 PM (#21782 - in reply to #18769) (#21782) Top


Standard & Neighbours (SM 16/17) Author

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I had the most wonderful weekend of the year so far. Really loved the two days of sudoku and puzzle solving. Unlike last year when I was leading after the first two rounds and messed up rounds 3 & 4, this year was just the opposite. I faltered badly in rounds 1 & 2 and did extremely well in round 3 which I never expected. The 4th round was a masterstroke by Deb and Prasanna . I had expected myself to be in top 3 in Sudoku Mahabharata and in top 10 of ISC which I accomplished.
Play-offs was also a nice experience. Having a lead of 30 seconds & 1 minute respectively over harmeet and gaurav helped me keep my cool . Luckily, I didn't make any mistakes in the play-offs and was declared the winner. Well played Gaurav & Harmeet.
Classic Sudoku master was very nice. Unfortunately, I had to face Rohan in the second round itself and I just broke the puzzle. Pranav did amazingly well by knocking Rohan out. Congrats to Kishore for winning the title and to Rakesh for finishing runner up.
Thanks Deb and Prasanna for the lovely sudokus and the people of Chennai for organising the event so well. Last but not the least , thanks to most of the solvers for simultaneously messing up their 3rd round :)
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-20 9:45 PM (#21783 - in reply to #18769) (#21783) Top


WSPC Organizer

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Results of the Indian Sudoku Championship 2016


Results of Sudoku Mahabharat 2016



witty
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-20 9:47 PM (#21784 - in reply to #18769) (#21784) Top




Posts: 16

Location: India
Will the puzzle booklet be available online?
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-20 10:00 PM (#21786 - in reply to #21784) (#21786) Top


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witty - 2016-07-20 9:47 PM

Will the puzzle booklet be available online?


The entire content (there is a significant amount of content considering some 'extras') of the offline finals will be on sale within the next two days as PDFs. We are deciding on the pricing.
rvarun
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-21 2:08 PM (#21791 - in reply to #21786) (#21791) Top




Posts: 219
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On behalf of the Chennai Organizing team, we would like to thank Deb, Prasanna and LMI for finalizing Chennai as the venue for the second edition of Sudoku Mahabharat and first edition of Puzzle Ramayan finals. We were initially sceptical on the turnout due to the distance and other factors. But we decided we will go ahead and host it in Chennai this time so that the game grows in other parts of the country.

Thanks to all the participants of SM and PR finals, who made it to Chennai, supported us and made the event a success. The two days were a wonderful experience with interaction with new people from different parts of the country This creates a great atmosphere for all of us to meet annually for an event and share a platform for our common passion. We hope you had a great time in here and travelled back with great memories. Do share your reviews/feedbacks in the Forum and it will be helpful for our introspection as well as for future hosts.

Thanks to Deb and Prasanna for the wonderful set of sudokus and puzzles across the two days along with Surprises like Round 4 in SM, Recreation rounds, Limca book of Records event. Special thanks for the mammoth linked classics and inter-linked puzzle.

Thanks to the Chennai team - Rakesh, Kumaresan, Ravichandran, Kishore, Ashish, Shaheer, Ezhilarasi. It was a great team effort right from the start. This will definitely give us confidence to host more events locally as well as nationally.

Looking forward to the next edition of the event, probably in a new venue. :-)
pranavmanu
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-26 6:04 PM (#21805 - in reply to #18769) (#21805) Top




Posts: 12

Location: india
I want to share that this was such a great event,wonderfully well planned and hosted by Prasanna and Deb.Congratulations to Rohan,Rakesh and Kishore for being selected to the indian team for wsc(as expected)and also to Amit for ipc.And also congrats to Hemant and kartik for fine showings and to akash for having a great event,winning sm and finishing 6th in Isc and 4th in ipc.Congrats Ashish for winning pr.I personally am disappointed with my performance ,but having had virtually no preparation,I could do little,messing up the samurai round so badly..Wish I could have made it to Pr,but was unable to.Nevertheless,a fantastic sudoku set with the right mix of difficulty and a great surprise element,which I really enjoyed solving after the event.Also glad I could do well in classic sudoku master.Thanks to everyone for making this an unforgettable event for me and good luck to all participants for tsc and sm 2017
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-07-28 2:13 PM (#21811 - in reply to #18769) (#21811) Top


WSPC Organizer

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SM Finals Content on Sale


The entire content of Sudoku Mahabharat Finals is now available for sale as online PDF booklets for anyone interested. The pricing is Rs. 400 for Indian solvers and $ 9 for International solvers. All Sudokus are authored by Deb Mohanty and me. Indians must transfer to the LMI account (details provided below) and Internationals can transfer via PayPal to prasanna16391@gmail.com since the LMI account isn't tied to PayPal yet. Either way, please drop me a mail (same id as the PayPal one) once the transfer is done with some reference details.

LMI account:
LOGIC MASTERS INDIA
Current Account
Syndicate Bank
04931010002518
IFSC: SYNB0000493

The content that you will get includes:
* Round 1 - 12 Classic Sudokus and Solutions.
* Round 2 - 8 Variant Sudokus and Solutions. The variants are Diagonal, Quadruple, Odd Sum Pair, Sum Frame, Skyscrapers, Mirror, Consecutive and Overlapping Irregular, one each from the 8 different online Sudoku Mahabharat rounds.
* Round 3 - 2 Samurai Sudokus and Solutions. The first Samurai is a Classic throughout, and the second Samurai contains Odd, Extra Region, Thermo and Irregular with a Classic in the middle.
* Round 4 - 16 6x6 Sudokus and Solutions. 2 each of Classics, Pencil Marks, Renban, Odd Even Count, Killer, Equal Product, X Sums and Kropki. This round featured an interesting twist. Since it was a surprise for participants, there is no more information about it.
* Round 5 - 6 Classic Sudokus and Solutions.
* Sudoku Mahabharat Top 5 Playoff Sudokus - Classic, Extra Region, Untouch, Classic, Diagonal, Anti-Knight, and Solutions.
* Indian Sudoku Championship Trophy Sudokus - 3 Classic Sudokus themed on 1, 2 and 3 which were then designed on the trophies presented to the winners.
* Sudoku Gift - 18-grid Classic Samurai Sudoku and Solution.

Our $ 6 patrons will be receiving this content over the next month or so.
We have a similar sale of Puzzle Ramayan content. Please check out the details for that here - http://logicmastersindia.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1014&...

Administrator
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2016-08-02 7:00 PM (#21828 - in reply to #21811) (#21828) Top


200010020
The first refusal (i.e. as long as they confirm participation, they are in) selections for Indian team A for WSC is as follows:

India - A
Prasanna Seshadri
Rohan Rao
Rakesh Rai
Kishore Kumar
lakshmisv
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2017-05-06 11:31 AM (#22913 - in reply to #21811) (#22913) Top




Posts: 14

Location: india
Is there any way to still buy this content?
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: Sudoku Mahabharat - 2015-16 @ 2017-05-06 2:59 PM (#22916 - in reply to #18769) (#22916) Top


WSPC Organizer

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Yes you can follow the same procedure described above and purchase it.