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TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April
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Administrator
Subject: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-25 9:46 PM (#7007) (#7007) Top


20005001001002020
Location: India
Tapa Variations Contest XII

Date: 31st March - 2nd April

Length: 75+5 minutes

IB and Submission Link : http://logicmastersindia.com/TVC/XII/
swaroop2011
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-25 10:36 PM (#7008 - in reply to #7007) (#7008) Top


WSPC Organizer

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In roman Tapa is it that
III may be 1,1,1 or 2,1 or 3 itself
and IIIII may be 2,1,2 or 2,3 or 5 itself..etc.

And in Compass Tapa,
Can you tell me the rules in some other way i am not able to understand it properly.
MellowMelon
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-25 11:02 PM (#7009 - in reply to #7008) (#7009) Top


Fillomino-Fillia 2 Author

100
Location: USA
Your understanding of Roman Tapa is correct assuming it works the same way as it did in a previous TVC (7 or 8?).

Compass Tapa: Every cell with one or more arrows has a path to the cell with the star. If we don't allow any paths that use a cell twice, the arrows tell all possible directions of the first direction the path goes in.

Here's a quick example of a wall where a cell might have more than one arrow.

_XXX
XX_A
_XXX
XB_*

The _ are white cells and everything else is part of the Tapa wall, with the * in R4C4 being the starred cell. If there were arrows in cell A (R2C4), there would be one pointing south (R2C4-R3C4-R4C4) and north (R2C4-R1C4-R1C3-R1C2-R2C2-R3C2-R3C3-R3C4-R4C4). If there were arrows in cell B (R4C2), there would only be one pointing north (R4C2-R3C2-R3C3-R3C4-R4C4). There would NOT be one pointing west because a path that goes in that direction first would have to retrace its steps to reach the *.

Some more examples of this type here, where it originated from: http://buyaketa.blogspot.com/2012/02/compass-tapa.html


Finally, after all the anxiety over the last IB, I should say I am really excited for this one. Visionary, Make Room, Compass, Borders ( )... so much to look forward to.
prasanna16391
Subject: RE: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-26 1:20 AM (#7011 - in reply to #7007) (#7011) Top


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^ Thanks for the link.

I'm looking forward to this one too. Quite a nice IB. Hopefully I stop my little run of goof-ups in the last two TVCs.
MellowMelon
Subject: RE: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-26 1:42 AM (#7012 - in reply to #7007) (#7012) Top


Fillomino-Fillia 2 Author

100
Location: USA
Some questions:

- For Wired Tapa, does the 2x2 replacement rule mean that a grid cell can't be surrounded by four edges (i.e. if there were slitherlink clues no 4s would be allowed), or that a dot can't be joined to four edges?
- Is the roman example in the IB wrong? The IIII on bottom is a single 4, which is not proper roman numerals. On the other hand if you let the IIIII be a 1-4 clue there are many other solutions.
suboree
Subject: RE: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-26 2:10 AM (#7013 - in reply to #7012) (#7013) Top




Posts: 9

Location: Turkey
MellowMelon
- For Wired Tapa, does the 2x2 replacement rule mean that a grid cell can't be surrounded by four edges (i.e. if there were slitherlink clues no 4s would be allowed), or that a dot can't be joined to four edges?


Yes, there cannot be wire segments in all of the four edges of any cell.

MellowMelon
- Is the roman example in the IB wrong? The IIII on bottom is a single 4, which is not proper roman numerals. On the other hand if you let the IIIII be a 1-4 clue there are many other solutions.


Sorry, bad example. This has been asked before in TVC VIII, we took the example from the list that contains all Tapa variations so far, and unfortunately have forgotten to correct the example puzzle. 4 is definitely IV, as discussed here:

http://logicmastersindia.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=285&p...
zachpuzzle
Subject: RE: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-26 3:10 AM (#7014 - in reply to #7007) (#7014) Top




Posts: 14

Location: USA
can paths pass through arrows? so, for exapmle, would the following picture be valid?



(untitled.PNG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments untitled.PNG (2KB - 2 downloads)
MellowMelon
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-26 3:41 AM (#7015 - in reply to #7014) (#7015) Top


Fillomino-Fillia 2 Author

100
Location: USA
Yes, that is allowed, assuming we're using the same rules as the original I linked to above.

Edited by MellowMelon 2012-03-26 3:42 AM
MellowMelon
Subject: RE: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-26 4:17 AM (#7016 - in reply to #7007) (#7016) Top


Fillomino-Fillia 2 Author

100
Location: USA
To give Para either some rest or at least some puzzles for him to practice on that were not made by him, I went ahead and drew up my own practice puzzles for this test. All of the variations save for 1, 5, 10 (Previously seen, Broken, TAPA TAPA) are covered in this set. Go here to find them.
swaroop2011
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-26 10:41 PM (#7017 - in reply to #7009) (#7017) Top


WSPC Organizer

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MellowMelon - 2012-03-25 11:02 PM

Your understanding of Roman Tapa is correct assuming it works the same way as it did in a previous TVC (7 or 8?).

Compass Tapa: Every cell with one or more arrows has a path to the cell with the star. If we don't allow any paths that use a cell twice, the arrows tell all possible directions of the first direction the path goes in.

Here's a quick example of a wall where a cell might have more than one arrow.

_XXX
XX_A
_XXX
XB_*

The _ are white cells and everything else is part of the Tapa wall, with the * in R4C4 being the starred cell. If there were arrows in cell A (R2C4), there would be one pointing south (R2C4-R3C4-R4C4) and north (R2C4-R1C4-R1C3-R1C2-R2C2-R3C2-R3C3-R3C4-R4C4). If there were arrows in cell B (R4C2), there would only be one pointing north (R4C2-R3C2-R3C3-R3C4-R4C4). There would NOT be one pointing west because a path that goes in that direction first would have to retrace its steps to reach the *.

Some more examples of this type here, where it originated from: http://buyaketa.blogspot.com/2012/02/compass-tapa.html


Finally, after all the anxiety over the last IB, I should say I am really excited for this one. Visionary, Make Room, Compass, Borders ( )... so much to look forward to.


Thank you for the explanation.
So in your example for the arrows in cell B.
Only one pointing towards North exist ok.
So it means that arrow has two paths to reach star right.
one mentioned by you and the other as (r4c2-r3c2-r2c2-r1c2-r1c3-r1c4-r2c4-r3c4-r4c4)
Para
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-27 12:45 AM (#7018 - in reply to #7008) (#7018) Top




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swaroop2011 - 2012-03-25 10:36 PM

In roman Tapa is it that
III may be 1,1,1 or 2,1 or 3 itself
and IIIII may be 2,1,2 or 2,3 or 5 itself..etc.


If I understood it right. IIIII can't be 5. 5 would have to be a V, 5 I's can't be a 5.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-27 2:29 AM (#7019 - in reply to #7018) (#7019) Top


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Para - 2012-03-27 12:45 AM

swaroop2011 - 2012-03-25 10:36 PM

In roman Tapa is it that
III may be 1,1,1 or 2,1 or 3 itself
and IIIII may be 2,1,2 or 2,3 or 5 itself..etc.


If I understood it right. IIIII can't be 5. 5 would have to be a V, 5 I's can't be a 5.


Yes, on all the examples I've solved so far, that was the way I interpreted and they solved fine. You can't have a 4-1 either for the IIIII.
anurag
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-28 7:06 PM (#7032 - in reply to #7007) (#7032) Top




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Compass tapa:For the puzzle to be elegant,every arrow should find a unique path.This is not mentioned in the rules.I believe Takeya's third puzzle has unique paths,otherwise the puzzle would have three solutions.How is the test puzzle gonna be like?
rob
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-28 9:51 PM (#7035 - in reply to #7007) (#7035) Top


Classics & Regions (PR 2016/17) Author

Posts: 152
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Neither of Takeya's first and third puzzle has unique paths, and both are uniquely solvable. Also they're both elegant in my opinion…
RALehrer
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-29 1:28 AM (#7041 - in reply to #7007) (#7041) Top




Posts: 31
20
Location: USA
For Tapa Tapa:

The directions say that the cities CAN have Tapa clues. Does this mean they also have the option of not having clues? (The example shows only length 1 segments adjacent to cities, but without clues there could be longer segments. Can a city be shaded?
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-29 1:44 AM (#7042 - in reply to #7041) (#7042) Top


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RALehrer - 2012-03-29 1:28 AM

For Tapa Tapa:

The directions say that the cities CAN have Tapa clues. Does this mean they also have the option of not having clues? (The example shows only length 1 segments adjacent to cities, but without clues there could be longer segments. Can a city be shaded?


Cities can have Tapa clues, using ONLY the digit 1. So 1, 1-1, 1-1-1, 1-1-1-1 are all possible around the train, and it has to be 1 of these 4 possibilities since otherwise a connective path between two trains wouldn't exist.
RALehrer
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-29 8:50 AM (#7043 - in reply to #7042) (#7043) Top




Posts: 31
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If I read you right, then, cities MUST have tapa clues - as a square with no tapa clues can have any number of segments around it.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-29 9:17 AM (#7044 - in reply to #7043) (#7044) Top


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RALehrer - 2012-03-29 8:50 AM

If I read you right, then, cities MUST have tapa clues - as a square with no tapa clues can have any number of segments around it.


Well true, I guess the cities are clue cells with at least a 1.
Para
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-29 10:23 AM (#7045 - in reply to #7043) (#7045) Top




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RALehrer - 2012-03-29 8:50 AM

If I read you right, then, cities MUST have tapa clues - as a square with no tapa clues can have any number of segments around it.


The rule is that any segment of the wall touching a city can only be 1 cell long.
From this my question comes. Do all cities have to be connected to eachother? For example, would the following puzzle be allowed?
The question of course can become irrelevant quickly if each city has at least one distance given.






(Valid Tapa Tapa.png)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Valid Tapa Tapa.png (12KB - 3 downloads)
anurag
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-29 10:46 AM (#7046 - in reply to #7007) (#7046) Top




Posts: 96
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Interesting.Such a city can be used as a trick.But I think Serkan wouldnt, in all probability.The test puzzle would most likely show distances involving all cities
(certainly not all pairs though),and also likely have all cities connected.
yureklis
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-29 11:07 AM (#7048 - in reply to #7045) (#7048) Top


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Para - 2012-03-29 10:23 AM

RALehrer - 2012-03-29 8:50 AM

If I read you right, then, cities MUST have tapa clues - as a square with no tapa clues can have any number of segments around it.


The rule is that any segment of the wall touching a city can only be 1 cell long.
From this my question comes. Do all cities have to be connected to eachother? For example, would the following puzzle be allowed?
The question of course can become irrelevant quickly if each city has at least one distance given.




So far i've solved only Rauno's example. I had some questions about the type too before solving. But, after solving the example i thought every city should have at least a 1 clue. I suppose that Rauno thought same way. So all cities have to be connected like in the example.

Edited by yureklis 2012-03-29 11:10 AM
anurag
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-29 4:16 PM (#7050 - in reply to #7007) (#7050) Top




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Wired tapa: Can the wire loop in to itself? This is different from using all four nodes of a cell. I know this is possible,but a bit useful to know in advance so we know that such loops do not exist.
Administrator
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-30 11:55 PM (#7051 - in reply to #7007) (#7051) Top


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PuzzlePointsGroup
1a. Visionary Tapa59Puzzles 1-2
1b. Make Room For Tapa104Puzzles 1-2
2a. Twilight Tapa25Puzzles 1-2
2b. Twilight Tapa83Puzzles 1-2
3a. Compass Tapa14Puzzles 3-4
3b. Compass Tapa92Puzzles 3-4
4a. Wired Tapa33Puzzles 3-4
4b. Wired Tapa94Puzzles 3-4
5a. Broken Tapa40Puzzles 5-6
5b. Broken Tapa71Puzzles 5-6
6a. Roman Tapa19Puzzles 5-6
6b. Roman Tapa63Puzzles 5-6
7a. Sweeper Tapa42Puzzles 7-8
7b. Sweeper Tapa163Puzzles 7-8
8a. Tapa - Like Loop14Puzzles 7-8
8b. Tapa - Like Loop90Puzzles 7-8
9a. Tapa [Borders]35Puzzles 9-10
9b. Tapa [Borders]144Puzzles 9-10
10. TAPA TAPA62Puzzles 9-10

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Para
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-31 12:43 AM (#7055 - in reply to #7007) (#7055) Top




Posts: 311
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19 puzzles in 75 minutes. That's going to be challenging. Although I guess I did 50 in an hour at the WPC.
Administrator
Subject: Re: TVC XII — 31st March-2nd April @ 2012-03-31 7:24 AM (#7058 - in reply to #7007) (#7058) Top


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Link to score page - http://logicmastersindia.com/TVC/XII/score.asp
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