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Crazy Arrows — LMI Sep Sudoku Test — 10th and 11th September46 posts • Page 2 of 2 • 1 2
@ 2011-09-11 3:14 PM (#5607 - in reply to #5515) (#5607) Top

Richard



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Richard posted @ 2011-09-11 3:14 PM

Thanks a lot for a nice set of puzzles! :-)
I had a good time solving (a few) of them this morning. It was my first time.
During the test I had a few more solved, and was busy with another one when I noticed my time was almost over. Then I submitted already one answer and tried to finish the other one quickly, assuming I could submit (with penalty) after the time was over. I really only needed 10 more seconds. But I wasn't able to do so after the 110 minutes have passed.

Question: can you submit part of your answers first and later some more, when the time is not over yet?

Normally I am on the other side of the process; I do prepare sudokus for the Dutch and the German championships, and I am not very used to solving in a race against time. But I will participate more often in the future. Liked it a lot!
@ 2011-09-11 3:35 PM (#5608 - in reply to #5607) (#5608) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-11 3:35 PM

Richard - 2011-09-11 3:14 PM

Question: can you submit part of your answers first and later some more, when the time is not over yet?

Yes, that is allowed and that is advisable.
It is always better to solve 2-3 puzzles, submit them and solve more.
@ 2011-09-11 3:58 PM (#5609 - in reply to #5515) (#5609) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-09-11 3:58 PM

Nice test Rohan. The intuitions I had by just looking at the grid ultimately proved to be true in some grids. Enjoyed all the sudokus (that I could solve). Already looking forward to "Crazier Arrows."

Edited by rakesh_rai 2011-09-11 3:58 PM
@ 2011-09-11 9:37 PM (#5610 - in reply to #5515) (#5610) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2011-09-11 9:37 PM

Thanks Prasanna, Richard, Rakesh.
@ 2011-09-12 4:45 AM (#5611 - in reply to #5515) (#5611) Top

forcolin




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forcolin posted @ 2011-09-12 4:45 AM

It was an excellent set of puzzles. Thank you so much Rohan + admnistrators. Pity I wasted a lot of time to no avail on one of them (found the correct solution later).

Just a remark. I noticed the CLAIM BONUS button is dangerously close to the SUBMIT ANSWERS one, a couple of times I nearly hit it by mistake, better to move it a bit out of the way, at the end of the day it has to be used only once.....
@ 2011-09-12 6:04 AM (#5612 - in reply to #5515) (#5612) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-12 6:04 AM

With no one participating in Crazy Arrows now, the test is over. 3 players managed to solve more than 9 Sudokus and they take the podium - motris (11), Nikola(10), Kota(10). Congratulations to them and thank you everyone for participating.

Indian results : Rakesh, Amit and Jaipal take the top 3 spots.
Overall 184 players participated, and 134 got non-zero scores.

A tough test indeed with so many zero scores and many players not submitting anything towards the end. Although there were many easy puzzles, I thought SYMMETRIC was highly undervalued, thus trapping many solvers. It was only 75 points, but is solved by only 10 players. Having correct points for that puzzle would have been a huge step forward for a perfect test.
@ 2011-09-12 6:06 AM (#5613 - in reply to #5611) (#5613) Top

motris



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motris posted @ 2011-09-12 6:06 AM

forcolin - 2011-09-11 3:45 PM

It was an excellent set of puzzles. Thank you so much Rohan + admnistrators. Pity I wasted a lot of time to no avail on one of them (found the correct solution later).

Just a remark. I noticed the CLAIM BONUS button is dangerously close to the SUBMIT ANSWERS one, a couple of times I nearly hit it by mistake, better to move it a bit out of the way, at the end of the day it has to be used only once.....


I can't comment on this test since I didn't finish, but on the last few tests I've caught that this button is not "active" until you have enough correctly formatted answers in the system. In other words, while it is there to click on, it cannot end your test until you could possible have a bonus to have. It also has a "are you sure" dialog afterwards which always costs me another minute of bonus as I keep forgetting it exists and losing 3 seconds to go over a quanta of minute.
@ 2011-09-12 6:08 AM (#5614 - in reply to #5515) (#5614) Top

motris



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motris posted @ 2011-09-12 6:08 AM

I didn't post any comments during the test for a few reasons - first I was rushing off to help run a puzzle event and didn't have time and also I had some mixed feelings because the puzzles were great in places and hard in places and it really paid to switch to new puzzles. Some of it may be that puzzles like Symmetric Arrow were simply unfamiliar, but I also felt a puzzle like that had a lot of necessary steps at least under time pressure that felt more like guesses than deductions. So I put Symmetric quickly on my do not do pile until after I ran out of time. I ended up getting back to Sum 1 and Missing Arrow (worth more) before running out of time on Symmetric. Outside of those three puzzles, I think I really liked everything on the test. Thanks Rohan for a really creative set of arrow variations. I'm sure I'll be playing with some of these again in the future.
@ 2011-09-12 6:27 AM (#5615 - in reply to #5613) (#5615) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-12 6:27 AM

motris - 2011-09-12 6:06 AM

forcolin - 2011-09-11 3:45 PM

It was an excellent set of puzzles. Thank you so much Rohan + admnistrators. Pity I wasted a lot of time to no avail on one of them (found the correct solution later).

Just a remark. I noticed the CLAIM BONUS button is dangerously close to the SUBMIT ANSWERS one, a couple of times I nearly hit it by mistake, better to move it a bit out of the way, at the end of the day it has to be used only once.....


I can't comment on this test since I didn't finish, but on the last few tests I've caught that this button is not "active" until you have enough correctly formatted answers in the system. In other words, while it is there to click on, it cannot end your test until you could possible have a bonus to have. It also has a "are you sure" dialog afterwards which always costs me another minute of bonus as I keep forgetting it exists and losing 3 seconds to go over a quanta of minute.

1) In a puzzle test, we deactivate the button until all puzzles are "filled in". But in Sudoku test, we don't do that because players could be solving/submitting online. ( Of course, this test didn't have online mode, but ...)
In Sudoku test, it remains enabled all the time, and it works like "Submit". Once all your sudokus are submitted (either paper mode or online mode), it pops up the "Are you sure" dialog.
If you have entered only half of the sudokus, and you click on "Claim Bonus", the sudokus will be submitted, and nothing else will happen. So it is close to the "Submit" button, but not dangerous.

motris - 2011-09-12 6:06 AM
It also has a "are you sure" dialog afterwards which always costs me another minute of bonus as I keep forgetting it exists and losing 3 seconds to go over a quanta of minute.

2) After you finish typing all puzzles/sudokus, you can directly click on "Claim Bonus". As I've noted in some earlier thread, "Claim Bonus" button also submits all puzzles. So, if you are anyway planning to claim bonus immediately after submitting, you may directly click on "Claim Bonus".

I think the "are you sure" dialog is necessary to avert any unwanted claims (especially that submission is not allowed after that). It is easy to remove the dialog box if players don't think it is any useful.
@ 2011-09-12 6:48 AM (#5616 - in reply to #5515) (#5616) Top

motris



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motris posted @ 2011-09-12 6:48 AM

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept of the "are you sure" box preventing mistaken clicks. And it is very good as you describe that the actual functionality is just "submit" not "end test" as Stefano was worried. This system seems ideal to get the correct functionality for all solvers. The exact functionality has not been described though until this response so now we can remove the potential stress some solvers might get from it.

And my nitpicky-ness is probably due to having played the typical WPC game of clock watching to "stop checking the last puzzle before the next minute" on the last two tests and gotten small point drops. My last submission was exactly on the minute I think for JPL and ST (95:00 and 41:00 I think) which is when I hit submit and claim. I should obviously have given myself 3 more seconds each time, as I just rolled over to the next minute with the second click in the other window.

Edited by motris 2011-09-12 6:49 AM
@ 2011-09-12 8:16 AM (#5617 - in reply to #5515) (#5617) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-12 8:16 AM

I misunderstood and thought you wanted to remove the "are you sure" dialog.

Yes, I agree that some of these features are not documented anywhere. We need a FAQ kinda thingy for the tests. With LMI attracting new players every week, players are unlikely to browse through old posts to know how certain things behave. With (at least) 3 weeks gap between now and next LMI test, we'll try to make a FAQ.
@ 2011-09-12 8:23 AM (#5618 - in reply to #5616) (#5618) Top

MellowMelon



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MellowMelon posted @ 2011-09-12 8:23 AM

Given that I felt like all 9 of the puzzles I solved were at a fairly sluggish pace (possible exception of sum 1, but even that had a wrong guess) and yet I still got that rank, this was evidently a very tough set. I personally enjoyed Count, Sum 2, and Product the most. My solve of Parted was rife with bifurcations, so I'll have to go back and see if I missed something. I didn't even touch Symmetric because the example in the IB destroyed me; there's too many ways to draw those arrows...
@ 2011-09-12 10:33 AM (#5619 - in reply to #5618) (#5619) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2011-09-12 10:33 AM

Thanks Stefano, Thomas and Palmer.

Firstly, congrats to the top three, Thomas, Nikola and Kota and thanks to all participants. I hope you enjoyed.
This was certainly a tough set. I thought Missing was the toughest and required some guesswork and luck.

I apologize for Symmetric. It was worth 75 points and that was clearly misleading. We missed something during testing. When I saw very few people solving Symmetric, we checked the puzzle again and thats when we found out it was much tougher than earlier thought. This is completely my lack of completion and Symmetric was worth much more (probably more than 120), only I am at fault.

Regarding the other sudokus, most of the players liked Sum2 the best. My favourite three were Sum2, Wrong and Product.

I'm glad I could conduct this event since I got the idea of Crazy Arrows over a year back.
Hope to see you in 'Crazier Arrows' :-)

Edited by Rohan Rao 2011-09-12 11:13 AM
@ 2011-09-12 10:46 AM (#5620 - in reply to #5515) (#5620) Top

Ziti



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Ziti posted @ 2011-09-12 10:46 AM

Rohan, there were some exceptional puzzles in here and you deserve many congratulations for putting together such a clever set! Rarely does a sudoku really get the mind working so hard for so long, and for the designs to be so nifty is a nice touch as well. Thank you for the set.

Having said this, I found the Missing Arrow EXTREMELY difficult/impossible/guess-y (as did nearly everyone else) and the Parted Arrow felt similar to me (although 25 people solved it so I must have missed something, as usual). Until today, I had never ever torn up the page in a fit of absolute rage upon finding an error, so that must mean something! :) It is uncommon for a LMI sudoku test to have what feels like many necessary bifurcation steps, and in that sense I guess I am surprised. Of course it's very possible I just don't see the logic-based steps...

I will say that both Sum puzzles were terrific. The first one had a neat killer feel to it, and I felt that a necessary step was one I had never seen before in an Arrow puzzle. The second one had such a clean path to its solution that it will be remembered. A pity I spent 30-some minutes hitting my head against the desk on the three puzzles that stumped me midway through the test, else I might've gotten some points on #2!
@ 2011-09-12 10:49 AM (#5621 - in reply to #5515) (#5621) Top

akash.doulani



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akash.doulani posted @ 2011-09-12 10:49 AM

i wish i had not attempted the symmetric arrow which ate up my valuable 25 minutes in which i could have solved atleast 2 more . but the puzzles were really good. thanks a lot rohan for such nice set of sudokus.
@ 2011-09-12 11:32 AM (#5622 - in reply to #5620) (#5622) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2011-09-12 11:32 AM

Ziti - 2011-09-12 10:46 AM

Rohan, there were some exceptional puzzles in here and you deserve many congratulations for putting together such a clever set! Rarely does a sudoku really get the mind working so hard for so long, and for the designs to be so nifty is a nice touch as well. Thank you for the set.

Having said this, I found the Missing Arrow EXTREMELY difficult/impossible/guess-y (as did nearly everyone else) and the Parted Arrow felt similar to me (although 25 people solved it so I must have missed something, as usual). Until today, I had never ever torn up the page in a fit of absolute rage upon finding an error, so that must mean something! :) It is uncommon for a LMI sudoku test to have what feels like many necessary bifurcation steps, and in that sense I guess I am surprised. Of course it's very possible I just don't see the logic-based steps...

Missing Arrow was tough and guesswork was obligatory. An interesting fact: Missing Arrow Sudoku is the least solved individual sudoku in any LMI sudoku test so far. So, kudos to Hideaki, Minfang, Murat, Thomas and Zafer.

I will say that both Sum puzzles were terrific. The first one had a neat killer feel to it, and I felt that a necessary step was one I had never seen before in an Arrow puzzle. The second one had such a clean path to its solution that it will be remembered. A pity I spent 30-some minutes hitting my head against the desk on the three puzzles that stumped me midway through the test, else I might've gotten some points on #2!

I had created 5 Arrow Sums Sudokus for this test and I had to include two of them. I think I chose wisely :-)

Thanks a lot, and I'm glad you enjoyed.
@ 2011-09-12 11:39 AM (#5623 - in reply to #5621) (#5623) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2011-09-12 11:39 AM

akash.doulani - 2011-09-12 10:49 AM

i wish i had not attempted the symmetric arrow which ate up my valuable 25 minutes in which i could have solved atleast 2 more . but the puzzles were really good. thanks a lot rohan for such nice set of sudokus.

Thats unfortunate, I'm sorry. Thanks :-)
@ 2011-09-12 6:18 PM (#5625 - in reply to #5623) (#5625) Top

harmeet



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harmeet posted @ 2011-09-12 6:18 PM

Beautiful puzzles Rohan. All of them were gems. Congratulations!
I look forward to equally crazy arrows, not crazier, please!
@ 2011-09-12 9:28 PM (#5626 - in reply to #5625) (#5626) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2011-09-12 9:28 PM

harmeet - 2011-09-12 6:18 PM

Beautiful puzzles Rohan. All of them were gems. Congratulations!
I look forward to equally crazy arrows, not crazier, please!

Thanks Harmeet.
@ 2011-09-13 3:56 AM (#5627 - in reply to #5626) (#5627) Top

Fred76




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Fred76 posted @ 2011-09-13 3:56 AM

Thanks for the fun tournament ! Very nice variations. Missing arrow and parted arrow made me completely crazy ! I lost a lot of time on these both grids and at the end I had some mistakes...
I've to solve these grids again and the symetric, which I have not yet began. Others were very beautiful and nice grids.

Fred
@ 2011-09-13 10:27 AM (#5628 - in reply to #5627) (#5628) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2011-09-13 10:27 AM

Fred76 - 2011-09-13 3:56 AM

Thanks for the fun tournament ! Very nice variations. Missing arrow and parted arrow made me completely crazy ! I lost a lot of time on these both grids and at the end I had some mistakes...
I've to solve these grids again and the symetric, which I have not yet began. Others were very beautiful and nice grids.

Fred

Thanks Fred.
Crazy Arrows — LMI Sep Sudoku Test — 10th and 11th September46 posts • Page 2 of 2 • 1 2
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