PANFOPCWHTTAPA 2 (28th Jan - 2nd Feb) has started Discuss
Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September80 posts • Page 2 of 4 • 1 2 3 4
How frequently you would want to see Sprint tests at LMI?
The aim of the Sprint test is to have relatively easier and less number of puzzles so that many more players can complete the full set. Please let us know if we should have more Sprint tests at LMI.
OptionResults
Once in a month22 Votes - [47.83%]
Once in a quarter18 Votes - [39.13%]
Once in 6 months5 Votes - [10.87%]
Once in a year1 Votes - [2.17%]
Never. This should be the last Sprint Test.0 Votes - [0%]
View Results

@ 2011-09-03 12:11 AM (#5499 - in reply to #5455) (#5499) Top

Ours brun




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Ours brun posted @ 2011-09-03 12:11 AM

In your case, your target points are exactly equal to your number of posts on LMI forum.

Now if you are wise, you will not answer this.
@ 2011-09-03 2:33 AM (#5500 - in reply to #5499) (#5500) Top

Fred76




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Fred76 posted @ 2011-09-03 2:33 AM

Ours brun - 2011-09-03 12:11 AM

Now if you are wise, you will not answer this.


you know me: you know that I am wise
@ 2011-09-03 6:15 AM (#5502 - in reply to #5455) (#5502) Top

Administrator



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Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-09-03 6:15 AM

Score page link - http://logicmastersindia.com/M201109P/score.asp

As usual, please use the score page to settle all claims
@ 2011-09-03 7:52 AM (#5503 - in reply to #5455) (#5503) Top

thesubro



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thesubro posted @ 2011-09-03 7:52 AM

For Fortress, the Answer Key instructions advise: "Write the length of separate white cell blocks in the marked rows and/or columns (write 0 if there is none). The answer for the example would be 1, 1."

Frankly, its a bad noninstructive example. If there were 2 separate white cells of length 1 in the first row, should the answer have been 11, 1 (a one for each separate white cell block) or 2, 1 (providing the aggregate "length of the separate white cell blocks")

Thanks.
@ 2011-09-03 8:01 AM (#5504 - in reply to #5455) (#5504) Top

thesubro



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thesubro posted @ 2011-09-03 8:01 AM

For Galaxies, the Answer Key instructions advise: "Write the length of distinct regions parts in the marked rows and/or columns."

Just as in Heyawacky, symmetrical "galaxies" can double back on themselves and have arms or legs separated by other galaxies. In such instances should the answer reflect each portion of a multi-part single galaxy by the length of its aggregate distinct parts, or each portion separately?

Thanks.

Edited by thesubro 2011-09-03 8:02 AM
@ 2011-09-03 8:13 AM (#5505 - in reply to #5455) (#5505) Top

figonometry



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figonometry posted @ 2011-09-03 8:13 AM

Does anyone know of a good tutorial for how to do Heyawake? That is easily my biggest blind spot now when it comes to puzzles. I managed to get everything else on this test solved (and mostly correct!) near my target time, but never finished the Heyawake. I've been practicing them, and still it's rare for me to finish one.
@ 2011-09-03 8:27 AM (#5506 - in reply to #5504) (#5506) Top

debmohanty




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Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-03 8:27 AM

thesubro - 2011-09-03 8:01 AM

For Galaxies, the Answer Key instructions advise: "Write the length of distinct regions parts in the marked rows and/or columns."

Just as in Heyawacky, symmetrical "galaxies" can double back on themselves and have arms or legs separated by other galaxies. In such instances should the answer reflect each portion of a multi-part single galaxy by the length of its aggregate distinct parts, or each portion separately?

Thanks.
In that case, you still need to enter the "different" number of galaxies.
@ 2011-09-03 8:45 AM (#5507 - in reply to #5455) (#5507) Top

anderson



Posts: 16

Country : United States

anderson posted @ 2011-09-03 8:45 AM

As for having fun, this test was certainly a lot of fun. Thanks a bunch for the elegant puzzles, Ours brun! :)

And the test was definitely doable in the time allotted, but that didn't prevent me from breaking a puzzle because I couldn't count to 3, restarting, getting to the final step, and then wondering for 5 minutes why it didn't have a unique solution, again because I missed something and couldn't count to 3. I ended up not solving it. Oops.
@ 2011-09-03 10:08 AM (#5508 - in reply to #5503) (#5508) Top

debmohanty




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Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-03 10:08 AM

thesubro - 2011-09-03 7:52 AM

For Fortress, the Answer Key instructions advise: "Write the length of separate white cell blocks in the marked rows and/or columns (write 0 if there is none). The answer for the example would be 1, 1."

Frankly, its a bad noninstructive example. If there were 2 separate white cells of length 1 in the first row, should the answer have been 11, 1 (a one for each separate white cell block) or 2, 1 (providing the aggregate "length of the separate white cell blocks")

Thanks.
It should be 11,1
Note that several puzzles in this test use the same mechanism for answer key. Please check NURIKABE, HEYAWACKY, HORSE SNAKE, LITS
@ 2011-09-03 10:33 AM (#5509 - in reply to #5455) (#5509) Top

thesubro



Posts: 23
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Country : United States

thesubro posted @ 2011-09-03 10:33 AM

As usual, LMI is the the top site for online puzzle test fun, both in terms of the quality of the test taking mechanisms as well as the product. Thanks for all of the hours that the puzzle creators (By Bastien « Ours brun » Vial-Jaime) and Deb put into these efforts.

With that all said, I personally stink at Galaxies and Snake puzzles, so I was not looking forward to them on the test - and my concerns were accurate. I guess I will need to wait for a treatise to be published by Motris or MellowMelon so that I can advance my puzzle career.

Folks, great fun again. Thanks so much.

TheSubro
@ 2011-09-03 8:19 PM (#5510 - in reply to #5455) (#5510) Top

pribaros



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Country : Turkey

pribaros posted @ 2011-09-03 8:19 PM

i dont see the password and Pdf can not open, anyone knows? (my time is started, immediate pleasee :) )
@ 2011-09-03 8:28 PM (#5511 - in reply to #5510) (#5511) Top

debmohanty




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Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-03 8:28 PM

pribaros - 2011-09-03 8:19 PM

i dont see the password and Pdf can not open, anyone knows? (my time is started, immediate pleasee :) )

The password is shown below the timer. If you still can't see the password, send me a message


@ 2011-09-03 8:31 PM (#5512 - in reply to #5511) (#5512) Top

pribaros



Posts: 2

Country : Turkey

pribaros posted @ 2011-09-03 8:31 PM

ahh sooo, ok i see thanx for reply
@ 2011-09-03 9:24 PM (#5514 - in reply to #5502) (#5514) Top

Administrator



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Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2011-09-03 9:24 PM

Administrator - 2011-09-03 6:15 AM

As usual, please use the score page to settle all claims
All claims will be looked into. Sometimes, it might take a while.
Please check your forum inbox for updates.
@ 2011-09-04 6:53 AM (#5516 - in reply to #5455) (#5516) Top

kiwijam



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kiwijam posted @ 2011-09-04 6:53 AM

Will the Hall of Fame entries be based on how much better than the Target Time you achieved?
Sure we want to know who was fastest overall, but the same names are always seen on the podium.
Here is a rare chance for the normal puzzlers to achieve a small amount of glory! :)
@ 2011-09-04 11:36 PM (#5517 - in reply to #5455) (#5517) Top

motris



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motris posted @ 2011-09-04 11:36 PM

My pulse is racing more than on any other test. Waiting till the end to do all the typing didn't help. Many good designs and definitely "sprint" was the captured feel. Thanks Bastien!
@ 2011-09-05 12:59 AM (#5518 - in reply to #5517) (#5518) Top

MellowMelon



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Country : United States

MellowMelon posted @ 2011-09-05 12:59 AM

Yeah, I can concur with having the pulse racing. Although here, that took the place of the huge amount of sweat I've started to feel all over me after finishing a 90+ minute test.
@ 2011-09-05 6:25 AM (#5519 - in reply to #5455) (#5519) Top

debmohanty




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Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-05 6:25 AM

With no one participating now, Sprint test is over. MellowMelon (33:51), motris (34:05), xevs (37:48) take the top 3 positions. Their timings are extremely close (note that xevs took 3.5 minutes to recheck all answers before hitting 'Claim Bonus'). All of them and 3 more in top 10 are well ahead of their 'target' time.

Thank you everyone for participating and for voting in the poll. It is important for us to know what everyone expects.

Some stats :
Total number of participants : 264
Number of non-zero scores : 210
Number of players claiming bonus : 41
Number of players getting bonus : 36
Number of players submitting all 15, but not claiming bonus : 4
Number of players with all 15 correct: 29
Number of players with 14 correct: 19

Median Score : 110

@ 2011-09-05 6:36 AM (#5520 - in reply to #5455) (#5520) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-05 6:36 AM

Please post any feedback you might have regarding the test
  • Length of the test
  • Difficulty of puzzles
  • Complexity of puzzles
  • Number of puzzles
Bastien will share his thoughts some time later in the day.
@ 2011-09-05 7:15 AM (#5521 - in reply to #5455) (#5521) Top

spmcandrews



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Country : United States

spmcandrews posted @ 2011-09-05 7:15 AM

Can I ask how I got 4 points out of 5 on Masyu? Was there partial credit somehow?
@ 2011-09-05 8:18 AM (#5522 - in reply to #5521) (#5522) Top

motris



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motris posted @ 2011-09-05 8:18 AM

spmcandrews - 2011-09-04 6:15 PM

Can I ask how I got 4 points out of 5 on Masyu? Was there partial credit somehow?


It looks like your answer was on the "accepted" list, but was not actually correct for the described answer mode. The solution should be 13,22, for lengths of line segments in the indicated rows, and your entry was 24,33 with consistent overcounting. So you got credit, but it counted as a typo for -20%.


------------------
I really liked the test, particularly the page with the Star Battle (123 theme) and the Tapa below (with 1234 by quadrant theme). Some other puzzles also had cute themes that didn't compromise the lower difficulty goal.

You'll notice though that I am the voter with the least interest in seeing these every month or even every quarter. Just as I liked the Screen Test when it was run a year ago, I felt that was something that could happen every year and be a welcome change from the usual. I view this kind of test the same way. I would not want a Sprint Test to replace the 2h tests we've been having every month, nor to add on a third monthly test if that is the alternate option. But I wouldn't mind it once or twice a year as a (literal) change of pace.

One side comment on scoring - we have consistently been granular on the order of minutes when it comes to bonus. I see no reason to not have fractional points to give the most correct accounting of relative performance (particularly when this test greeted me with my score of 986.252 which has excessive significance anyway). One side effect is with fractional bonus you will never have the rankings incorrectly sorted after a test which I seem to see this time around with Janka1 behind Spelvin despite earlier submission and onigame ahead of two others despite being in the same minute too. Order could change with refreshing, but it should certainly sort by score and then time. (I think the specific bug is sorting on last correct submission and not "claim bonus" time.)

Edited by motris 2011-09-05 8:21 AM
@ 2011-09-05 8:42 AM (#5524 - in reply to #5522) (#5524) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2011-09-05 8:42 AM

motris - 2011-09-05 8:18 AM

One side effect is with fractional bonus you will never have the rankings incorrectly sorted after a test which I seem to see this time around with Janka1 behind Spelvin despite earlier submission and onigame ahead of two others despite being in the same minute too. Order could change with refreshing, but it should certainly sort by score and then time. (I think the specific bug is sorting on last correct submission and not "claim bonus" time.)


I think its sorted based on "points + last correct submission time" currently. It should perhaps be changed to "points + claim time + last correct submission time". We are seeing this effect because of many claims this time (unlike earlier tests).
@ 2011-09-05 8:49 AM (#5525 - in reply to #5524) (#5525) Top

debmohanty




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Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-05 8:49 AM

rakesh_rai - 2011-09-05 8:42 AM

motris - 2011-09-05 8:18 AM

One side effect is with fractional bonus you will never have the rankings incorrectly sorted after a test which I seem to see this time around with Janka1 behind Spelvin despite earlier submission and onigame ahead of two others despite being in the same minute too. Order could change with refreshing, but it should certainly sort by score and then time. (I think the specific bug is sorting on last correct submission and not "claim bonus" time.)


I think its sorted based on "points + last correct submission time" currently. It should perhaps be changed to "points + claim time + last correct submission time". We are seeing this effect because of many claims this time (unlike earlier tests).
Certainly a glitch there. Will fix that in a while.
@ 2011-09-05 9:44 AM (#5526 - in reply to #5455) (#5526) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-05 9:44 AM

Updated score page - http://logicmastersindia.com/M201109P/score.asp

skywalker > Janka1 > spelvin
ByronosaurusRex > S_Aoki > onigame

Also,
Para > tarotaro > ppeetteerr

Players with same scores but less than 14 puzzles correct are sorted by "Last Correct Submission" irrespective of "Claim Bonus Time"
@ 2011-09-05 9:50 AM (#5527 - in reply to #5522) (#5527) Top

debmohanty




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Country : India

debmohanty posted @ 2011-09-05 9:50 AM

motris - 2011-09-05 8:18 AM

spmcandrews - 2011-09-04 6:15 PM

Can I ask how I got 4 points out of 5 on Masyu? Was there partial credit somehow?


It looks like your answer was on the "accepted" list, but was not actually correct for the described answer mode. The solution should be 13,22, for lengths of line segments in the indicated rows, and your entry was 24,33 with consistent overcounting. So you got credit, but it counted as a typo for -20%.

It was not necessarily a typo, but was a misunderstanding of answer key. It was debatable whether it should be 100% or 80%. We had same problems in JPL as well (even though the authors had done a splendid job of explaining using an image)

In fact we had players who entered row A using one method, and row B using another method. So clearly, it is not a good answer key.

We should be using Method 4 described here for loop puzzles.
Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September80 posts • Page 2 of 4 • 1 2 3 4
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