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World Sudoku + Puzzle Convention 2021 (13th - 22nd Nov) Score Discuss

Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 25th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021
   LMI Tests -> Sudoku Mahabharat38 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1 2
Administrator
Subject: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 25th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-12 8:45 AM (#29000) (#29000) Top


2000100010010010020
Location: India



Link for rules and other details about Sudoku Mahabharat: http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2021sm.asp
The Instruction booklet is available on the contest page: https://logicmastersindia.com/live/?contest=SM202103



Administrator
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-17 9:25 PM (#29009 - in reply to #29000) (#29009) Top


2000100010010010020
Location: India

Points Table


Points table shall be updated on 19th March 2021.

Administrator
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-17 9:26 PM (#29010 - in reply to #29000) (#29010) Top


2000100010010010020
Location: India

Penpa Tabs


Please use the "Sudoku" tab for all sudokus.
Sometimes the modes reset to something else but are easily changeable as per convenience.
You can also "resize" the grid based on your device and your solving convenience.

Timjamiller
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-18 4:01 AM (#29011 - in reply to #29000) (#29011) Top




Posts: 37
20
Location: USA
Question for True or Lie: "given clues" refer specifically to the small numbers, and we should trust the large numbers to be accurate, yes?
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-19 9:03 AM (#29014 - in reply to #29011) (#29014) Top



Mean Minis (2020) Author

Posts: 774
500100100202020
Location: India
Timjamiller - 2021-03-18 4:01 AM

Question for True or Lie: "given clues" refer specifically to the small numbers, and we should trust the large numbers to be accurate, yes?

Yes. Good point. The rules will be modified to reflect this.
Administrator
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-19 4:32 PM (#29015 - in reply to #29014) (#29015) Top


2000100010010010020
Location: India

(Updated) Instructions Booklet


An updated version of the IB is now available at the contest page: https://logicmastersindia.com/live/?contest=SM202103

1) Points table has been updated.
2) True or Lie sudoku - Rule has been updated based on the comment in this thread.

Administrator
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-19 7:07 PM (#29016 - in reply to #29000) (#29016) Top


2000100010010010020
Location: India

Sudoku Booklet


The password-protected Sudoku Booklet is now available at the contest page: https://logicmastersindia.com/live/?contest=SM202103

TiiT
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-21 2:25 PM (#29017 - in reply to #29000) (#29017) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: Estonia
Thank you for the enjoyable puzzles. I even don't have favourites. They all were equally good. Although the letters in coded were hard to see when solving and I think I struggeled too much with True or Lie sudoku. There was probably something I missed.

About this visibility:
The gray in fortress vs. renban/coded was different. The fortress seemed a bit darker. Coded and Renban was still a bit too light in my opinion. But it was already a little bit better than last time. I didn't have to redraw anything this time, but I was far from comfort-zone in coded, because I really had to double check everything to be sure I didn't get a letter wrong. Luckily the coded sudoku was easy enough and the coding part wasn't the main part (thank you for that actually for making sudoku part more important than coding part).
dhruvarajsinhpuwar06
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-21 2:57 PM (#29018 - in reply to #29000) (#29018) Top




Posts: 5

Location: INDIA
I did not expect such easy sudokus from Mr. Rakesh Rai Sir. In excitement, I made an error in entering the answer key in one of the sudokus. Like Mr. Tiit Vunk Sir mentioned, I also found difficulty in visibility in 9x9 coded sudoku and 9x9 fortress was darker. But, after all, I am very happy to complete this SM-3 round fully with bonus points which is the first ever SM round I finished.
Feadoor
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-21 4:57 PM (#29019 - in reply to #29017) (#29019) Top




Posts: 17

Location: UK
TiiT - 2021-03-21 9:25 AM
Coded and palindrome was still a bit too light in my opinion.


I had the exact opposite problem. The letters in Coded were so dark that I could barely see what I had written on top of them.
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-21 5:43 PM (#29020 - in reply to #29000) (#29020) Top



Mean Minis (2020) Author

Posts: 774
500100100202020
Location: India
Thanks for bringing out the shading printing issues. We did change the shading from SM1 based on Tiit's comments but there are still issues. Will explore Penpa further to see how this experience can be improved.

Also I am puzzled how the same puzzle is darker for one participant and lighter for another participant (assuming no local issues).
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-21 5:44 PM (#29021 - in reply to #29018) (#29021) Top



Mean Minis (2020) Author

Posts: 774
500100100202020
Location: India
dhruvarajsinhpuwar06 - 2021-03-21 2:57 PM

I did not expect such easy sudokus from Mr. Rakesh Rai...

Why?
Feadoor
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-21 5:48 PM (#29022 - in reply to #29020) (#29022) Top




Posts: 17

Location: UK
Also I am puzzled how the same puzzle is darker for one participant and lighter for another participant (assuming no local issues).


It could be a number of things: printer differences, a difference in personal preference, maybe one of us is using a darker pen/pencil than the other (I used HB pencil). It's difficult to please everyone :) Next time I'll know to bring a pen or a darker pencil.
TiiT
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-21 11:27 PM (#29023 - in reply to #29022) (#29023) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: Estonia
It's interesting you pointed that out. I'm using pen (blue), which is really well visible when I write something down. Cannot agree more that this is probably the reason why nothing is too dark for me. Pencil is something I just don't like using.
I also agree that there might be printer issues, although I haven't configured any settings there. Just printers are different.

But really it was better this time. You (organizers) already have done something for of me and I really appreciate it. I also don't want to say that I would have done 5 minutes faster if the gray was darker. No, I'm talking about some seconds here which probably didn't affect my result.

The fair thing would be to keep everything more or less similar than this time.


Feadoor - 2021-03-22 2:48 PM

Also I am puzzled how the same puzzle is darker for one participant and lighter for another participant (assuming no local issues).


It could be a number of things: printer differences, a difference in personal preference, maybe one of us is using a darker pen/pencil than the other (I used HB pencil). It's difficult to please everyone :) Next time I'll know to bring a pen or a darker pencil.
swaroop2011
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-22 12:07 AM (#29024 - in reply to #29000) (#29024) Top


PR 2020 (Shading and Loops) Author

Posts: 622
50010020
Location: india
@TiiT @Feadoor
Thanks for your feedback regarding the shades. One thing we can probably do in the future for coded/substitution alphabets is to provide in the top left corner in black color (similar to True or Lie), this will keep the centre space empty and also make alphabets clearly visible. In regards to shading, we hope the below test will help to further improve.

@Everyone - If you don't mind, can you please print the following puzzle and share your feedback regarding which shade you feel is very light, very dark or appropriate/suitable. That would help us to further improve the choice of color.
Thanks in advance to all.
https://git.io/Jmd7K (Use "Screenshot" button at the top to download the image with default settings as is (i.e. High Quality and PNG))
You can either share your feedback here or send it to penpaplus@gmail.com, your time is very much appreciated.

Edit: Added alphabets to each shade and option for easier reference and feedback.

Edited by swaroop2011 2021-03-22 12:18 AM
bakpao
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-22 6:29 AM (#29025 - in reply to #29000) (#29025) Top




Posts: 5

Location: Netherlands
For me, it would break down into the following:

Shaded
Ideal - C
Workable - B,D,K
Too dark - A,S

Thermo
Ideal - E
Workable - F,G
Too dark - H,I,J

Line
Ideal - R
Workable - L,M,Q
Too dark - N,O,P

Arrow
Ideal - U
Workable - T,V
Too dark - W,X

What seems to work best for me is as light as possible (since the shapes are large enough to be distinctive), except for lines perhaps take 1 shade darker than the very lightest since they can be easier to miss. But honestly anything within the workable range is perfectly fine for me

Edit: Standard printer settings, wrote some pencil marks and digits in each cell with a regular HB pencil. I also want to add that I think moving coding information etc to the cell corner is a great idea

Edited by bakpao 2021-03-22 6:40 AM
dhruvarajsinhpuwar06
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-22 2:12 PM (#29026 - in reply to #29021) (#29026) Top




Posts: 5

Location: INDIA
Sir, I did not expect that SM-3 round would be easy because generally your genius sudokus and puzzles are tough and require more time to solve but in this round all were easy. My favourites in this round were 9x9 Fortress Sudoku and 9x9 Consecutive Pairs Sudoku.
Anu G
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-22 10:25 PM (#29027 - in reply to #29000) (#29027) Top




Posts: 17

Location: India
What an interesting contest. My laptop gave trouble so I got stressed out and lost my focus.in general I get a little demoralised when contests are very tough, Thus has brought back my confidence and enthusiasm in solving contests. Thanks very much Mr, Rakesh for a very enjoyable SM. I wish my score proved it.
vopani
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-23 12:27 PM (#29028 - in reply to #29000) (#29028) Top


WSPC Organizer

Posts: 729
50010010020
Location: India
Fantastic set. Didn't expect anything lesser.
Great example of how easy sudokus can be of high quality.

Favourites:
True or Lie 6x6
Consecutive Pairs 9x9
True or Lie 9x9

Thanks Rakesh!
ravilp
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-23 1:18 PM (#29029 - in reply to #29000) (#29029) Top




Posts: 7

Location: india
As Dhruv had earlier mentioned, I too was surprised by the much easier set. I started the set remembering Rakesh's mean mini set. But found easier and so made an error in 9×9 Fortress which ate my time. Eventhough I didn't finish the set, this was my best effort in SM and a BIG thankyou for that Rakesh.
ravilp
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-23 1:25 PM (#29030 - in reply to #29000) (#29030) Top




Posts: 7

Location: india
Very apt password.
My favourite was the 9×9 Fortress and the True or Lie
Veronika
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-23 5:36 PM (#29031 - in reply to #29025) (#29031) Top




Posts: 5

Location: Slovakia
For me the best shading is:

Shaded - C, K
Thermo - E, F
Line - Q, R
Arrow - U, V

Shading A is not usable for me at all.

Thank you for asking this feedback.
TiiT
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-23 10:38 PM (#29032 - in reply to #29000) (#29032) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: Estonia
I have to be honest. I printed it out and basically everything is workable (with only few exceptions). If you have used some of these in competitions, then there must me something else, which affects this (maybe the quality of pdf file, the pdf itself or resolution).

I first recommend to create an actual pdf and not put these different variants next to each other. Like this C feels fine only because it has darker areas on it's sides.

So:
Shaded:
C - Cannot tell for sure, it seems fine, but maybe a bit too light.
K, D - Perfect for me
B, S - workable
A - A bit too much

Thermo:
E - Would say workable, but not sure
F, G, H - totally fine
I, J - workable

Line:
L - workable in here
R, Q - Perfect for me
M, N, O - workable
P - maybe too much, but would be workable for me

Arrow:
U - seems workable
V, T - perfect
W, X - Also totally fine

numbers 1 and 2. I can see them clearly in here. They are definitely not the same as they were in coded sudoku. In here both are fine.
aashay
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 24th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-24 9:33 AM (#29033 - in reply to #29000) (#29033) Top




Posts: 45
2020
Location: India
Great set of Sudokus, relatively on the easier side. I echo Tiit's views that the Fortress was too dark and the Coded alphabets were too large, which made the solve slightly uncomfortable. I also found the True or Lie 9x9 to be tougher than the Fortress 9x9, though it was worth lesser.

Overall, a fantastic set. Thanks Rakesh!
Nityant
Subject: Re: Substitution and Neighbours - 19th - 25th Mar 2021 - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier 2021 @ 2021-03-24 10:59 AM (#29034 - in reply to #29000) (#29034) Top




Posts: 17

Location: India
What a Great set of Sudokus! Loved all of them. I had some issues with reading the numbers in coded Sudokus(penpa), But didn't have much problem as they were not hard to solve. Consecutive pairs Sudoku 9x9 increased my time by a large margin.
Amazing set. Expected nothing less from you sir. Thank you
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