DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013
Administrator
Subject: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-23 8:56 AM (#12409) (#12409) Top


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swaroop2011
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-23 9:07 AM (#12410 - in reply to #12409) (#12410) Top


PR 2020 (Shading and Loops) Author

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so whats full form of DTGT ;)
Administrator
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-23 9:14 AM (#12411 - in reply to #12410) (#12411) Top


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swaroop2011 - 2013-08-23 9:07 AM

so whats full form of DTGT ;)
Well, Two letters should be obvious from the logo. Remaining two can be guessed.
swaroop2011
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-23 9:19 AM (#12412 - in reply to #12409) (#12412) Top


PR 2020 (Shading and Loops) Author

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ohk i think i got it :)
tamz29
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-24 12:36 AM (#12425 - in reply to #12412) (#12425) Top




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Finally a puzzle test.
Administrator
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-29 5:58 AM (#12490 - in reply to #12409) (#12490) Top


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Logic Masters India announces September Puzzle Test — DTGT

Dates : 7th — 9th September

Instruction Booklet & Submission : here

Author : Richard Stolk

deu
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-29 7:27 AM (#12491 - in reply to #12409) (#12491) Top




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In Prime Domino, can a domino consist of two grey cells?
If so, example puzzle has 2 solutions at bottom right.
Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-29 11:28 AM (#12497 - in reply to #12491) (#12497) Top


WCPN Author

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deu - 2013-08-29 7:27 AM

In Prime Domino, can a domino consist of two grey cells?
If so, example puzzle has 2 solutions at bottom right.


Yes, it is possible that two grey cells belong to the same domino.
New IB uploaded, two digits swapped in the bottom right.
Sorry for inconvenience.
tamz29
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-29 3:06 PM (#12498 - in reply to #12409) (#12498) Top




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In the last puzzle, can black cell touch the border diagonally?
Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-29 3:08 PM (#12499 - in reply to #12498) (#12499) Top


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tamz29 - 2013-08-29 3:06 PM

In the last puzzle, can black cell touch the border diagonally?

Yes, that is allowed.
Richard
Subject: RE: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-30 1:43 AM (#12503 - in reply to #12409) (#12503) Top


WCPN Author

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As I have written in the IB, here is a list of links to more practise material in the puzzle portal of Logic Masters Germany.

Here we go:
Killer Skyscrapers: easy; easy
Regional Yajilin: medium; easy
Capsules: very easy; medium
Masyu Battleships: very easy; easy
Easy as Chaos ABC: easy
City construction: hard; medium; hard
Easy as no ABC – No Touch: medium
Spiral City Construction: medium; medium
Filled Loop: medium; very hard; hard; medium
Pentomino in the Box: hard; hard
Japanese Sums Pentominos: very easy; very easy
Sudokakuro: easy
X-Sums Sudoku: easy
Domino Loop: medium; medium
Prime domino: easy; easy
Blackout Domino: hard; medium

In June all my puzzles in the portal were XL; same rules but larger grids. All these puzzles are (much) harder than in the real test. Still, they can be interesting from a practise point of view:
Regional Yajilin
Capsules
Masyu Battleships
Blackout Domino

If you have any questions about these extra practise puzzles, don’t hesitate to ask. Either here or in the portal.
In the coming days I will publish a few more practise puzzles. I will keep you all informed about it.
Have fun and good luck!
Richard
Subject: RE: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-08-31 7:54 PM (#12519 - in reply to #12503) (#12519) Top


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Richard - 2013-08-30 1:43 AM

In the coming days I will publish a few more practise puzzles. I will keep you all informed about it.



Meanwhile two extra practise puzzles are published in the portal:

X-Sums Sudoku
Capsules
Richard
Subject: RE: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-02 11:35 PM (#12552 - in reply to #12519) (#12552) Top


WCPN Author

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I received a question about Japanese sums Pentominos:

"Is the sum in both different 'legs' of the U-pentomino presented as one sum or as two different sums?"

The answer is that both different 'legs' have their own sum (of one digit).
By choosing the phrase '... blocks of cells ...' I have tried to take away doubts on this issue.

Later I will try to attach a small image to this message that should make it even more clear.



Administrator edited to add the image
kiwijam
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-03 9:42 AM (#12558 - in reply to #12409) (#12558) Top




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Hi Richard,

For puzzle 16 Sudokakuro, the answer key should be 235146, 261543 (and a matching solution grid).

Looks like a good collection of puzzles! :)

Also a question about Filled Loop:
In the example the loop is always one cell wide where the pentominoes touch.
Is it possible for three pentominoes to meet at a point that is not on the loop-edge?
e.g. meeting like this:

I
I
I
I
ILLLL
YL
Y
YY
Y

Edited by kiwijam 2013-09-03 9:55 AM
Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-03 9:58 AM (#12559 - in reply to #12558) (#12559) Top


WCPN Author

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Oops, you are absolutely right.
I feel pretty silly...

New IB will be uploaded.
Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-03 10:03 AM (#12560 - in reply to #12558) (#12560) Top


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kiwijam - 2013-09-03 9:42 AM

Also a question about Filled Loop:
In the example the loop is always one cell wide where the pentominoes touch.
Is it possible for three pentominoes to meet at a point that is not on the loop-edge?
e.g. meeting like this:

I
I
I
I
ILLLL
YL
Y
YY
Y


No, this is not possible. Pentominos don't touch each other diagonally.
Realshaggy
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-03 4:16 PM (#12565 - in reply to #12560) (#12565) Top




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Hi Richard,

I'm definitly looking forward to this. Just printed the practice material, there are some puzzles, I wanted to do for a long time. Unfortunately my solving percentage in the puzzle portal dropped a lot during the last years, there are just too many puzzles out there to keep up everywhere.

However, I'm a little bit confused about your answer to kiwijam. His example seems valid according to the rules in the instruction booklet.
Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-03 4:50 PM (#12566 - in reply to #12565) (#12566) Top


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Realshaggy - 2013-09-03 4:16 PM

However, I'm a little bit confused about your answer to kiwijam. His example seems valid according to the rules in the instruction booklet.


Now something funny is happening.
Of all the puzzles of this type that I published in the puzzle portal so far, none had a question like this in the comments. Also the test solvers didn't mention something about it.

But in fact you (and kiwijam) are right. Following the instructions, some 'unwanted' positioning of pentos is possible.
This type is getting incredible hard if pentos are allowed to 'fit together like jigsaw pieces'. That was not my intention when I developed the first puzzle of this type a few years ago.

I think it is wise to rephrase the instructions or add a sentence.
Something like: 'each pentomino can touch one or more other pentominos, but a pentomino segment can touch only one other pentomino'.
Is that a phrase that makes it all more clear or does anyone have a better alternative?
Realshaggy
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-03 5:08 PM (#12567 - in reply to #12566) (#12567) Top




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I remember a discussion whether or not three pentominos can met at a point, but I can't find the particular puzzle right now. It might also be one of your "Pentominoschleifen" or one of Luigis puzzles. I also solved two of these, but I can't remember that I had problems with the description. However, as far as I remember, I found them much harder than other solvers difficulty rating intended. Maybe the ones I solved are unique even without it, and it makes them much easier to use this additional rule.

I think "There is no point where three or more pentominos met." is a short addition that makes everything clear. This also excludes the case of diagonally touching pentominos, because only two would violate the loop rule, and more is not allowed.

Edited by Realshaggy 2013-09-03 5:09 PM
Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-03 7:02 PM (#12568 - in reply to #12567) (#12568) Top


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Realshaggy - 2013-09-03 5:08 PM

There is no point where three or more pentominos meet.


Added this to the instructions.
New IB is uploaded.
Richard
Subject: RE: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-04 3:39 PM (#12578 - in reply to #12519) (#12578) Top


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Two more links to extra practise puzzles:

As easy as ABC - No Touch
Sudokakuro

Before the test starts I will publish the last two practise puzzles:
As easy as Chaos ABC (Thursday)
Pentomino in the Box (Friday)

Enjoy!
David McNeill
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-05 7:46 PM (#12589 - in reply to #12409) (#12589) Top


Triplets & Triangles Author

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Another question about Prime Domino. If there are no shaded squares in a domino, is the total necessarily non-prime?
Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-05 8:06 PM (#12590 - in reply to #12589) (#12590) Top


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David McNeill - 2013-09-05 7:46 PM

Another question about Prime Domino. If there are no shaded squares in a domino, is the total necessarily non-prime?


According to the instructions it is possible that two white cells in one domino add to a prime number.
Richard
Subject: RE: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-05 10:49 PM (#12593 - in reply to #12578) (#12593) Top


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Richard - 2013-09-04 3:39 PM

Before the test starts I will publish the last two practise puzzles:
As easy as Chaos ABC (Thursday)
Pentomino in the Box (Friday)


Today the Easy as Chaos ABC was published.
Grizix
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-06 5:11 AM (#12600 - in reply to #12409) (#12600) Top




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Wow, can't find the break in any killer skyscrapers, not even in the one from the booklet ...
Can someone give me a nudge on any of the three please ?
Administrator
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-06 9:34 AM (#12601 - in reply to #12600) (#12601) Top


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DTGT starts on Friday

Considering that there are other offline championships, DTGT will be starting 12 hours prior to the usual start time. Please check the submission page for exact timing in your timezone.

The end time remains unchanged.

Richard
Subject: RE: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-06 3:31 PM (#12604 - in reply to #12578) (#12604) Top


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Richard - 2013-09-04 3:39 PM


Before the test starts I will publish the last two practise puzzles:
As easy as Chaos ABC (Thursday)
Pentomino in the Box (Friday)


And here is the last practise puzzle: Pentomino in the Box

The test starts in less than two hours.

Good luck to all participants!
Have fun!


Richard
FoxFireX
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-07 9:05 AM (#12610 - in reply to #12409) (#12610) Top





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Ugh. Not pleased with my performance, but the puzzles were great. However, I did lose about 10 minutes on an error in the instructions for 12 (Spiral City). Instructions claim the numbers go from 1 to 32, but there are only 30 segments. My math on the two center rows just refused to work until I threw out the 31 and 32 segments. Probably could have figured out one or two other puzzles in the time, but it still would've been awful. :)

Regardless, thanks for the entertaining set!
debmohanty
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-07 9:57 AM (#12611 - in reply to #12610) (#12611) Top



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FoxFireX - 2013-09-07 9:05 AM

on an error in the instructions for 12 (Spiral City). Instructions claim the numbers go from 1 to 32, but there are only 30 segments.
You are right. Just added a note in the Submission page about this typo.
auroux
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-07 12:23 PM (#12614 - in reply to #12409) (#12614) Top


Hex Slitherlink Author

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The puzzles were indeed really really good -- one of my favorite recent tests. But I had terrible luck with timing, finishing the Sudokakuro just 5 seconds too late (of course it'd have taken another 10 seconds to copy down the answer key). Sigh.
Administrator
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-07 1:32 PM (#12615 - in reply to #12614) (#12615) Top


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Link to score page : http://logicmastersindia.com/2013/09P/score.asp
kiwijam
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-07 4:32 PM (#12617 - in reply to #12409) (#12617) Top




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Great puzzles Richard, thank you! I'm glad they were easier than most of your portal ones.

One comment on the submission page: Is it possible to have the puzzle numbers (1-20) included as well as the names? It would be much faster to find the correct location to enter the answer, especially as some of the puzzles had similar names.
An LMI player
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-07 6:22 PM (#12618 - in reply to #12409) (#12618) Top


 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


xevs
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-07 8:52 PM (#12619 - in reply to #12409) (#12619) Top


Toketa? Selection Author

Posts: 43
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 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many medium difficult puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


rob
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-08 2:24 AM (#12621 - in reply to #12409) (#12621) Top


Classics & Regions (PR 2016/17) Author

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Looks like the spiral city construction was solvable without the loop part... I was quite confused when the form wanted the number of angles. :)
john_reid
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-08 4:08 AM (#12623 - in reply to #12409) (#12623) Top




Posts: 10

Location: USA
 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


bskbri
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-08 6:12 AM (#12624 - in reply to #12409) (#12624) Top


Sudoku Grand Prix - Turkish Round Author

Posts: 31
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 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


An LMI player
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-08 12:12 PM (#12628 - in reply to #12409) (#12628) Top


 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many medium difficult puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


A good test, but hard to prepare for. It was 16 unusual types, some with rather specific rules. The LMD practice material helped a little, but some of the LMD puzzles used subtly different rules from the test. Despite doing all of them, I still felt shaky going into the test.
Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-08 12:27 PM (#12629 - in reply to #12628) (#12629) Top


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An LMI player - 2013-09-08 12:12 PM

A good test, but hard to prepare for. It was 16 unusual types, some with rather specific rules. The LMD practice material helped a little, but some of the LMD puzzles used subtly different rules from the test. Despite doing all of them, I still felt shaky going into the test.


I am not aware of subtly different rules, maybe apart from the Filled Loop. I think I didn't use the non-diagonal touching of pentos when I created the first puzzles of this type a few years ago.

For the other types I think the rules in the portal are the same as in the test. Please point out if not so.

When the test is over I will post some notes and considerations about the test and selection of puzzles.
An LMI player
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-08 7:04 PM (#12630 - in reply to #12409) (#12630) Top


 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Way too many puzzles (too little time)
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Realshaggy
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-08 8:31 PM (#12632 - in reply to #12409) (#12632) Top




Posts: 42
2020
Location: Germany
 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


yureklis
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-08 9:39 PM (#12633 - in reply to #12409) (#12633) Top


CTC & TVC Author & Organizer

Posts: 180
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 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Thanks a lot Richard. Your puzzles were lovely. Whole test was smooth for me except the Spiral City C. I forgot the loop thing, probably the reason is that I solved the puzzle as Spiral Battleships. Also I assumed that we must use all numbers from 1-32, I didn't count all segments of the city. So I experienced difficulty in the middle of the grid because of this. I erased, I repeated, but the result didn't change. But last ten minutes I remembered there was a loop :) Then I did it. So I could be much better if I hadn't done this stupidity. Anyway, thanks a lot!
detuned
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-08 10:25 PM (#12634 - in reply to #12409) (#12634) Top




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 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Rubben
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-08 11:11 PM (#12635 - in reply to #12409) (#12635) Top




Posts: 20
20
Location: Romania
 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


HuDu
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-09 12:49 AM (#12637 - in reply to #12409) (#12637) Top




Posts: 4

Location: Germany
 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


An LMI player
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-09 4:46 PM (#12641 - in reply to #12409) (#12641) Top


 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


tamz29
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-09 11:54 PM (#12644 - in reply to #12409) (#12644) Top




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Had no time to prepare and jumped right in.

I've made enough Capsules to know that a puzzle with nothing but pentominoes = hell to construct.
It must have taken you ages. I remember tweaking for hours to get pentomino-only Capsules.

I really like Blackout Domino. 5 stars!

I find Prime Domino a bit "un-domino". Once you take out the adjacent cell has to be equal rule, you're
left with a shopping list. I think it took longer keeping track of the pieces than actually solving the puzzle.
Even longer, with that answer format.

Lovely set of 20 puzzles. Thanks, Richard.
An LMI player
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-10 1:43 AM (#12646 - in reply to #12409) (#12646) Top


 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


kiwijam
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-10 4:10 AM (#12647 - in reply to #12644) (#12647) Top




Posts: 159
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Location: New Zealand
tamz29 - 2013-09-10 6:54 AM
I find Prime Domino a bit "un-domino". Once you take out the adjacent cell has to be equal rule, you're
left with a shopping list. I think it took longer keeping track of the pieces than actually solving the puzzle.
Even longer, with that answer format.


"Prime Domino" is actually based on the German(?) puzzle type "Domino Hunt" (e.g. http://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Dominos/index.htm, also it was round 1 at 2012 WPC), which is a much different sort of puzzle to the domino joining types.
It has its own rules that speed up solving. Quickly, the best ones are:
1): There are two ways that two dominoes can fill a 2x2 square. If both ways would use the same two dominoes (i.e. when a digit repeats on one of the two diagonals) then there would not be a unique solution, and so the 2x2 square must be covered in another way.
e.g. If the top-left corner is:
13
36
There are two ways to draw a 1-3 domino and a 3-6 domino in these 4 cells, therefore if we expect there is a unique solution then neither can be used - the 6-domino must go down or right. Draw in two edges between the 6 and the 3s.
2) If you locate a (e.g.) 4-5 domino, then you can draw lines between all other 4-5 pairs. For uniqueness reasons, this also works for blanks. If you find a 2-blank domino, then you can rule out all other 2-blanks (as long as they have the same grey/not-grey status), even before you know what the blank will contain.

If anyone is interested, I also wrote down some ideas and diagrams for how to solve three of the other types in the attached apreadsheet:

Regional Yajilin
Blackout Domino
Domino Loop

Edited by kiwijam 2013-09-10 4:12 AM




Attachments
----------------
Attachments DTGT - LMI Sep 2013 Theory.xls (42KB - 8 downloads)
Para
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-10 5:46 AM (#12648 - in reply to #12644) (#12648) Top




Posts: 311
100100100
Location: The Netherlands

I've made enough Capsules to know that a puzzle with nothing but pentominoes = hell to construct.
It must have taken you ages. I remember tweaking for hours to get pentomino-only Capsules.


I thought Capsules puzzles always had all pentomino regions. At least the ones I've seen and made always do. Maybe I've just seen many of Richard's.


Edited by Para 2013-09-10 5:47 AM
Administrator
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-10 9:00 AM (#12649 - in reply to #12648) (#12649) Top


20005001001001001002020
Location: India
Password removed from puzzle booklet.
An LMI player
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-10 10:51 AM (#12650 - in reply to #12409) (#12650) Top


 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Way too many puzzles (too little time)
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Many puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Too few pages / too small grids


Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-10 11:27 AM (#12651 - in reply to #12649) (#12651) Top


WCPN Author

Posts: 191
10020202020
Location: Netherlands
My first puzzle test for LMI is now over. It was an exciting weekend for me to watch players from all over the world being busy solving at lightning speed.
Congratulations to deu, MellowMelon and uvo for taking the podium positions!

Later I will write some notes about the test and puzzle selection.

Thank you all for participating and the (mostly) positive feed back so far!
flk
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-10 2:53 PM (#12655 - in reply to #12409) (#12655) Top




Posts: 23
20
Location: Australia
Unfortunately I missed the test, but am looking forward to doing it in my own time. Thanks for the puzzles.
tamz29
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-10 8:23 PM (#12656 - in reply to #12648) (#12656) Top




Posts: 187
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Location: Thailand
I discovered Capsules a long while back. Maybe around 2007, when I first started
solving WPF-style puzzles.
It was under the name "Capsules", so it must be from the same origin.
I can't remember exactly where but I'm suspecting the 24HPC.
I'm certain there were 1-cell, 2-cell regions and what not.

Perhaps someone can enlighten us.
prasanna16391
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-10 9:52 PM (#12657 - in reply to #12409) (#12657) Top


PR 2020 (Evergreens) Author

Posts: 1362
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Location: India
This was a test with most of my weaknesses. I'm not too great with puzzles that use numbers without using the row/column restrictions, and so kept making silly errors in Capsules. I'm not that good with Loop/placement puzzles with empty grids and outside clues either. Dominos is one of those broad genres that I've always struggled at, and even my Japanese Sums base isn't great.

In short, the majority of this test contained types I usually skip during other tests, and some of them, 5 months or so ago, I wouldn't even have attempted after the test. But I pretty much had to "face my fears" for this one, and then I liked the puzzles so much that I solved them all afterwards. Thanks Richard, both for making me face my fears and for the beautiful puzzles I got to solve because of that
Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-10 10:41 PM (#12660 - in reply to #12656) (#12660) Top


WCPN Author

Posts: 191
10020202020
Location: Netherlands
tamz29 - 2013-09-10 8:23 PM

I discovered Capsules a long while back. Maybe around 2007, when I first started
solving WPF-style puzzles.
It was under the name "Capsules", so it must be from the same origin.
I can't remember exactly where but I'm suspecting the 24HPC.
I'm certain there were 1-cell, 2-cell regions and what not.

Perhaps someone can enlighten us.


My example was WPC Belarus 2008. Puzzle 13 in round 2 were two Capsules puzzles of the type that was also in DTGT test; pento-shapes to fill with digits 1~5 and no touching.
Few years after that WPC the editor of Breinbrekers asked me to make a couple of these puzzles. At the same time I made one for the puzzle portal with minimal clues (10); it's linked in the forum as practice material.
These puzzles are not really hard to construct if you use a lot of P-pentominos. For the test I used the complete pentomino set once in the small grid and twice in the large grid (of course with exception of the U and V pentomino. )
Richard
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-11 12:05 AM (#12661 - in reply to #12660) (#12661) Top


WCPN Author

Posts: 191
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Location: Netherlands
The puzzle portal in Germany is a breeding ground for developing puzzle variants. Every author can publish any kind of puzzle that he likes. By creating and publishing a new invention, he/she is inspiring other authors as well. Those other authors may, in turn, inspire still other authors and so on. This makes the portal a vivid place.
A lot of puzzles that are included in DTGT are the product of such a process; they First appeared in the portal because I was inspired by other authors. (Not only portal authors by the way.)

Some funny notes about the test:
The grids for Capsules and Regional Yajilin are the same. Did anyone notice that?
In the IB, the grid of the Regional Yajilin is the same as the grid of the Low sudoku in Shapes and Sizes. I liked to link my First puzzle test to my First sudoku test.
Three puzzles have a 100% accuracy submitting range. Close to the end of the test it were still four puzzles.

Some notes about the individual puzzles then.

Killer Skyscrapers
A few years ago there was a whole series of skyscraper variants in the portal. I realised that a lot of variations that are common in sudoku can also be applied to other puzzles. Also on skyscrapers. Quite a few kropki-like skyscrapers appeared. I really liked the interplay between the skyscraper clue and the First digit in the grid when there was a kropki dot on the border of the grid. I played around a bit to make a killer variant to this, with cages going over the borders. The First few puzzles had repeating digits in the cages, so I didn’t link to those for extra practise material. Later I made a few without repeating digits.

Top grid: start with placing 1 in R5C1 and 1 in R1C5. Both cages (sum 6 and sum 8) must contain a 1 and that 1 can’t be outside the grid because of the non-repeating constraint.
Bottom grid: Start with both cages of sum 4. The cage on the right side has the 1 inside the grid and the 3 outside. In the cage of sum 21 bottom right the 1 is not outside the grid, and because of the two 1's in the cages of sum 4, the 1 in the large cage goes in R5C5. Then the 1 in the cage of 3 cells with sum 7 can also be placed in R3C4. Counting the sums in C3 + C4 leads to a 6 in R4C3.

Regional Yajilin
When I first noticed these puzzles in Prasanna's Borders & Beyond test, I was a great fan of this type immediately. I have made some normal Yajilins for Breinbrekers, but the area constraint really added something to the puzzles.
Since a good mixed puzzle test must include a few loop puzzles to gain speed, I included RY's too. But since I also wanted a puzzle where T&E is necessary, I made the second puzzle very hard. Most of the puzzle can be solved by logic, except for the bottom left part. Unthough a few cells in the 3x3-block can be eliminated for blackening, a few remain, and only TE brings the solution.

Capsules
In my opinion an interesting puzzle type, although most of them solve in the same way. Next to the T and Z pentomino are two spots that are forcing the letter placed in that cell to go in exactly one possible cell of the T and Z pento. The F, L, N and Y pento have one such spot. Those spots are powerful in the solving process.

Masyu Battleships
I don't know where, but I have seen a masyu of someone else that had a constraint on the unused cells. Either they had to be connected, or the unused cells must be isolated, I don't know anymore. But I combined this idea with normal battleships to make a nice crossover. Masyu clues bring the start to the puzzle, placement of the ships is necessary to make the loop unique. These puzzles are among the ones with the most wrong answer submissions; I think in the speed of finishing the puzzle lots of mistakes are made.

Easy as Chaos ABC and - No Touch
The editor of Breinbrekers is a great fan of Easy as ... puzzles. As I wrote earlier under the Killer Skyscrapers, also Easy as... puzzles can have additional sudoku constraints like extra areas as in chaos sudokus and the no touch rule. For me these are almost standard puzzles.

City Construction
I have made a whole pile of these puzzles for Breinbrekers during 2005 - 2008. Basically it's battleships, but with other shapes. The loop constraints make it more interesting, and adds to the solving process. Main rules are along the edges where there have to be at least two cells between two buildings. In this puzzle the two bottom rows provide the start. Column 4 with 7 segments is also important later on. Three cells remain empty, so there's on single cell empty and the other two are connected, since the loop passes once from left to right and once back.

Spiral City Construction
One of the most interesting puzzle types in Serkan's akil oyunlari test was the spiral battleships. The spiral can also be applied on other placement puzzles, like City Construction. The puzzles of this type in the portal are much harder, and mainly suitable for leisure solving. By giving all outside clues, I kept it relatively easy, although it is one of the harder ones in the set.

Filled Loop
In the beginning years of the puzzle portal one of the authors there introduced one variant to slitherlink after another. Most of these variants were really good. My contribution to the ever growing list of variants was the combination with pentos, in the way of filling the interior of the loop. This constraint provides additional info on the loop: take care that no pentos appear more than once and avoid smaller ends of the loop with less than 5 connected cell.

Pentomino in the box
This is my variant of the starbattle puzzles. When I did a theme month pentominos in january 2012, this type was the highest rated one, so I picked this type for DTGT. Small shapes in general provide good starting points. In this puzzle the middle area and top left area give a quick start.

Japanese sum pentominos
In one of the older USPC's there was a japanese pentomino puzzle. Outside the grid were the number of connected cells per pentominos. I liked it a lot. By filling the grid with digits a japanese sum variant was born. Try to find complete or almost complete filled rows/columns to get started, followed by ruling out cells that can't be part of any pentomino.

Sudokakuro
More than 50% of all my puzzles in the portal are sudoku variants. For that reason I wanted to include one or two sudoku variants in the set too. But since not all players are sudoku fans, I decided to take a variant that is 'far off' the normal variants. This sudokakuro uses a lot of 'Law of leftovers', one of my favorite techniques. The chaos sudoku part is more important than the kakuro part.

X-Sums sudoku
My favorite puzzle in the LMI Sudoku 8x8-contest of 2012. As 9x9 puzzle it can be quite tough, the one in DTGT was some kind of snack; a good puzzle to save for the last minutes.

Domino Loop
Although I am not a big fan of snake puzzles, combined with domino-counting I like it a lot. Seen it once at a very old Dutch Championship, and never after. The snake-part is handy to know what happens at the border; 3 to 5 cells at the border have to be connected. A 2 elsewhere as clue tells there are two narrow passings. The puzzle in the test can best be started with the grey cell bottom right.

Prime Domino
The dissection domino puzzles don't provide much possibilities to play around with variations. One that I found was this primes constraint. In the portal it was appreciated much better than the plain domino dissection puzzles. Knowing that there are only 11 possible prime domino tiles, you can conclude that in this case, every prime sum has to have a grey cell. That makes it easy to do a lot of eliminations.

Blackout Domino
In the Breinbrekers magazines there have been a lot of puzzles of this type. Only difference is that all black cells are already placed. By leaving the black cells out, the puzzle is getting more interesting. In the Original puzzle, the black cells could be orthogonal adjacent. In this Blackout variant, that would be too hard. So I made the extra rule that black cells may not touch and also don't touch the border orthogonally.

Cells sticking out the grid provide a good start. The two cells in the leftmost column are both part of a domino, and since all tiles appear only once, these two cells form one domino. The same goes for the two (x 2) cells in row 1 and the two cells in the bottom row. Those cells sticking out are either 'doubles' or one of the cells connected to them is black.


If there are any specific questions about individual puzzles: don't hesitate to ask! I'll be happy to answer.
I also like to read alternative starts in the puzzles. ;)
An LMI player
Subject: Re: DTGT — LMI September Puzzle Test — 7th-9th September 2013 @ 2013-09-11 2:58 PM (#12665 - in reply to #12409) (#12665) Top


 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? A bit skewed
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Way too many puzzles (too little time)
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right