Number Placement and Object Placement - 23rd - 27th Feb 2018 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier
@ 2018-02-10 10:44 PM (#24217) (#24217) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2018-02-10 10:44 PM




Link for rules and other details about Puzzle Ramayan: http://logicmastersindia.com/PR/2018pr.asp
Instructions for Number Placement and Object Placement: http://logicmastersindia.com/PR/201802/

@ 2018-02-12 5:04 PM (#24241 - in reply to #24217) (#24241) Top

Administrator



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Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-12 5:04 PM

Change in dates


The PR test date is moved by a week and will now be held from 23rd to 27th February.

Another contest will be held during 16-19 Feb.

@ 2018-02-16 9:57 AM (#24283 - in reply to #24241) (#24283) Top

carburra




Posts: 10

Country : India

carburra posted @ 2018-02-16 9:57 AM

Please change the dates of Round 2 in main page of PR as well to avoid any confusion.
@ 2018-02-20 8:59 PM (#24299 - in reply to #24217) (#24299) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2018-02-20 8:59 PM


Logic Masters India announces Number Placement and Object Placement - second episode of Puzzle Ramayan 2018

Dates : 23rd - 27th February

Instruction Booklet & Submission : Link

Author : Amit Sowani

@ 2018-02-20 9:01 PM (#24300 - in reply to #24217) (#24300) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2018-02-20 9:01 PM

IB is available now.
@ 2018-02-21 10:22 PM (#24308 - in reply to #24217) (#24308) Top

SCORPPROCS



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SCORPPROCS posted @ 2018-02-21 10:22 PM

Inside the webpage http://logicmastersindia.com/PR/201802/, both up-right corner and timing section, test dates seem as January.
@ 2018-02-22 12:12 AM (#24309 - in reply to #24308) (#24309) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2018-02-22 12:12 AM

SCORPPROCS - 2018-02-21 10:22 PM

Inside the webpage http://logicmastersindia.com/PR/201802/, both up-right corner and timing section, test dates seem as January.


Thanks, this is fixed now.
@ 2018-02-22 11:16 AM (#24312 - in reply to #24217) (#24312) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2018-02-22 11:16 AM

Points table

@ 2018-02-22 8:03 PM (#24315 - in reply to #24217) (#24315) Top

Administrator



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Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-22 8:03 PM

Updated IB


The updated IB with points is available now: http://logicmastersindia.com/PR/201802/

@ 2018-02-22 11:12 PM (#24316 - in reply to #24217) (#24316) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2018-02-22 11:12 PM

Puzzle Booklet


The Puzzle Booklet available for download now: http://logicmastersindia.com/PR/201802/

@ 2018-02-22 11:25 PM (#24317 - in reply to #24217) (#24317) Top

Administrator



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Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2018-02-22 11:25 PM

A lookback at similar PR contests earlier:

@ 2018-02-23 12:12 AM (#24320 - in reply to #24217) (#24320) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2018-02-23 12:12 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many medium difficult puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Partiti
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2018-02-23 8:36 AM (#24325 - in reply to #24217) (#24325) Top

swaroop2011




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swaroop2011 posted @ 2018-02-23 8:36 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many medium difficult puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Partiti
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Interesting Set of Puzzles.
Each Puzzle had nice logic behind it , probably new techniques or I didn't know. I was too slow to discover.
Not a good round for me but nonetheless puzzle quality was great. Probably my discard round. Felt difficuitly was hard though , may be very hard in comparison to 1st round.
Yet to solve remaining.
Thanks Amit for wonderful set of puzzles. Thanks LMI.
@ 2018-02-24 3:00 AM (#24329 - in reply to #24217) (#24329) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2018-02-24 3:00 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Half Dominoes
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2018-02-24 4:17 PM (#24331 - in reply to #24217) (#24331) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2018-02-24 4:17 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Partiti
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2018-02-24 10:08 PM (#24333 - in reply to #24217) (#24333) Top

tamz29



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tamz29 posted @ 2018-02-24 10:08 PM

Next time the wording for the Battleships answer keys should be changed.
"Left to right and top to bottom" would mean entering the submarines' co-ordinates column by column.
Rather than the going from "top to bottom and left to right" - which is the case with the example.
@ 2018-02-25 6:39 AM (#24336 - in reply to #24217) (#24336) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2018-02-25 6:39 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Ripple Effect
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2018-02-25 11:34 PM (#24338 - in reply to #24217) (#24338) Top

greenhorn



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greenhorn posted @ 2018-02-25 11:34 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Battleships
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


I like the LMI theme, but the puzzle type selection was really weird and I didn't enjoyed solving Partiti (they were worth 29 points - almost one third of the whole contest).
@ 2018-02-26 4:46 AM (#24339 - in reply to #24217) (#24339) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2018-02-26 4:46 AM

 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Statue Park
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? I have a different complaint


Prefer all pages have header even if it's the second page of a set of puzzles. If papers get out of order it's soemtimes hard to see which puzzles you're on.

(both puzzle #s and page #s were too small to be helpful)

Edited by An LMI player 2018-02-26 4:48 AM
@ 2018-02-26 8:12 AM (#24340 - in reply to #24217) (#24340) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2018-02-26 8:12 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many medium difficult puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Partiti
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2018-02-26 1:10 PM (#24351 - in reply to #24217) (#24351) Top

chaotic_iak




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chaotic_iak posted @ 2018-02-26 1:10 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Partiti
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


These are some incredible puzzles. Some difficult ones, too. Partiti is a really tough genre, but that's probably just because it's very new; the logic was really nice. But not only that; all of them in general are very good puzzles. The only complaint is answer keys; for Battleships, I believe the usual answer key is "leftmost ship segment in each row", and I much prefer that than locating submarines. (Or if we need to locate submarines, at least give us the row numbers.) And for Partiti, I feel like putting the largest number only feels off (would probably be better "put all numbers in each cell from lowest to highest"). But minor complaints; the puzzles themselves are top-notch.
@ 2018-02-26 2:45 PM (#24352 - in reply to #24217) (#24352) Top

kiwijam



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kiwijam posted @ 2018-02-26 2:45 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Half Dominoes
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


I was confused by the lack of row numbers for the Battleships answer key, had to redownload the instruction book to see what my error was.

But the puzzles were generally very well written, thank you Amit for a great contest.
@ 2018-02-26 3:41 PM (#24353 - in reply to #24217) (#24353) Top

forsmarts



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forsmarts posted @ 2018-02-26 3:41 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Half Dominoes
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2018-02-26 4:07 PM (#24354 - in reply to #24217) (#24354) Top

Gyuszi13



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Country : Hungary

Gyuszi13 posted @ 2018-02-26 4:07 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Partiti Regions
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Too many pages / too large grids


@ 2018-02-26 6:53 PM (#24355 - in reply to #24217) (#24355) Top

ABcDexter



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ABcDexter posted @ 2018-02-26 6:53 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many medium difficult puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Ripple Effect
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2018-02-26 7:36 PM (#24356 - in reply to #24217) (#24356) Top

Para



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Para posted @ 2018-02-26 7:36 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Statue Park
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


I did enjoy the puzzles, but I think that maybe too many puzzles needed the right insight and I used uniqueness maybe a bit too much to get through this whole set.

Also, is there like a non-japanese ranking in these things? ;)
@ 2018-02-26 7:51 PM (#24357 - in reply to #24217) (#24357) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2018-02-26 7:51 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many medium difficult puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Battleships
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Too hard for a PR round.

Puzzles were excellent... felt like a typical Amit Sowani set. Loved the Partiti Regions and Battleships, was hard to pick one as favourite.
@ 2018-02-26 8:56 PM (#24358 - in reply to #24217) (#24358) Top

utkaarsh



Posts: 89
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utkaarsh posted @ 2018-02-26 8:56 PM

The difficulty of puzzles would either motivate non-regular solvers to practice much more or drive them away
@ 2018-02-27 12:04 AM (#24359 - in reply to #24217) (#24359) Top

RameshLMI



Posts: 51
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RameshLMI posted @ 2018-02-27 12:04 AM

Quite tough a set. Though enjoyed solving Ripple Effect puzzles.
@ 2018-02-27 9:29 AM (#24360 - in reply to #24217) (#24360) Top

WA1729




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WA1729 posted @ 2018-02-27 9:29 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Statue Park
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Thank you!

Favorite Puzzles:

Ripple Effect 2
Partiti 3
Partiti Regions 2
@ 2018-02-27 4:54 PM (#24363 - in reply to #24217) (#24363) Top

kishy72



Posts: 417
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kishy72 posted @ 2018-02-27 4:54 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Ripple Effect
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


A very hard set.My score is more or less half of what I scored in the previous PR round.I couldn't enjoy the round becuase of the difficulty level and it was a total struggle getting to the point tally that I eventually did.It would have been better if the supposedly lower pointer puzzles(1,2 etc pointers ) were valued better and the number of puzzles to solve had been lesser to account for the increase in difficulty level.

Favourite is Ripple Effect(9 points).Thanks for the set Amit.
@ 2018-02-28 12:48 AM (#24366 - in reply to #24217) (#24366) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2018-02-28 12:48 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Hidden Statue
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Many puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2018-02-28 12:10 PM (#24367 - in reply to #24217) (#24367) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2018-02-28 12:10 PM

Congratulations to Endo Ken, Yuki Kawabe, and Hideaki Jo for making it an all-Japan Top 3.

Amongst Indian participants, Congratulations to Prasanna Seshadri, Rohan Rao and Ashish Kumar for taking the top 3 places.

Of the 206 participants, 35 were from India, 28 from Japan and 23 from USA. Morey Garelick (USA) was the first to start the test while Esther Naef (Switzerland) was the last person to start the test. 9 participants completed the set within the allotted time. The median score of the test was 41.

Thanks Amit Sowani for the puzzles!

Participants may share feedback on the results page and rate the puzzles on the contest page.
@ 2018-02-28 3:07 PM (#24368 - in reply to #24338) (#24368) Top

amitsowani




Posts: 349
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amitsowani posted @ 2018-02-28 3:07 PM

greenhorn - 2018-02-25 11:34 PM

I like the LMI theme, but the puzzle type selection was really weird and I didn't enjoyed solving Partiti (they were worth 29 points - almost one third of the whole contest).


Thanks for your feedback Matus. We are contemplating a polling mechanism for selection of puzzle types for each contest.

For this particular contest with Number and Object Placement as the theme I went with three each. In wanted number placement to be different from symbol placement so each puzzle used a different properties of numbers. Futoshiki has number comparisons, Ripple Effect uses numbers to indicate distance and Partiti has number arithmetic.

For object placement I went with puzzles which have a given set of objects which need to be placed. Most of these are classic types.

Partiti is a slow moving puzzle with local logic. I attempted to make the grids smaller and introduce symmetry to aid with solving.
@ 2018-02-28 3:12 PM (#24369 - in reply to #24351) (#24369) Top

amitsowani




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amitsowani posted @ 2018-02-28 3:12 PM

chaotic_iak - 2018-02-26 1:10 PM

These are some incredible puzzles. Some difficult ones, too. Partiti is a really tough genre, but that's probably just because it's very new; the logic was really nice. But not only that; all of them in general are very good puzzles. The only complaint is answer keys; for Battleships, I believe the usual answer key is "leftmost ship segment in each row", and I much prefer that than locating submarines. (Or if we need to locate submarines, at least give us the row numbers.) And for Partiti, I feel like putting the largest number only feels off (would probably be better "put all numbers in each cell from lowest to highest"). But minor complaints; the puzzles themselves are top-notch.


Thanks for your feedback Ivan. We realized the error in Battleship formatting after the booklet had been published and the test had started. We will note this for future contests.

The answer key for Partiti was based on the need for fixed length answer keys for real time validation of answer keys.
Partiti usually solves bottom up, the smaller numbers get filled in earlier than the larger ones, hence we went with the answer key for the test.
@ 2018-02-28 3:18 PM (#24370 - in reply to #24356) (#24370) Top

amitsowani




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amitsowani posted @ 2018-02-28 3:18 PM

Para - 2018-02-26 7:36 PM

I did enjoy the puzzles, but I think that maybe too many puzzles needed the right insight and I used uniqueness maybe a bit too much to get through this whole set.

Also, is there like a non-japanese ranking in these things? ;)


I agree with your comment on uniqueness. It gets used quite a bit and especially in Partiti2 with the center 9 boxes missing, they have to be 1-9 to ensure uniqueness.
@ 2018-02-28 3:21 PM (#24371 - in reply to #24358) (#24371) Top

amitsowani




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amitsowani posted @ 2018-02-28 3:21 PM

utkaarsh - 2018-02-26 8:56 PM

The difficulty of puzzles would either motivate non-regular solvers to practice much more or drive them away


I hope it is the prior. Some of these puzzles required a bit of prior work in identifying strategies for solving these puzzles types.
Hope this encourages newcomers to discuss solving techniques for the new types once the IB is released for each round.
@ 2018-02-28 3:47 PM (#24372 - in reply to #24367) (#24372) Top

amitsowani




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amitsowani posted @ 2018-02-28 3:47 PM

I would like to thank Tiit and Rakesh for testing the puzzles and providing valuable feedback, especially pointing out errors/non-uniqueness in 2-3 puzzles.
Their timings also aligned with my anticipation of puzzle difficulty and I was in general happy with the point distribution except for one instance where in hindsight I made the mistake of overruling their timing in Half Dominoes -3 where I expected that it would be one of the easier puzzles with all the column and row sums being given.

We were aware that the set is a lot tougher than the previous round, but the only option we had was to reduce the number of puzzles, which would mean departure from the set pattern for PR rounds. This is something we could consider in future years.

I wanted to introduce a different solving strategy in each puzzle type and succeeded for most puzzle types except Futoshiki. I was especially happy with Statue Park where each of the 5 puzzles including the exploratory variants had a different solving strategy.

Partiti was the favorite puzzle type in the set. Thanks to Thinh Van Duc Lai for introducing the puzzle type to all of us. I would also like to thank Ashish whose Partiti puzzles from WPC 2017 inspired the puzzles in this test.

The theme was obvious in some types like Statue Park and Battleship but a bit more obscure in Futoshiki and Ripple Effect. This is the 10th year of LMI so I though the theme would be appropriate for this contest.

Thanks to all the participants for adding colour to the event and providing valuable feedback. Congrats to all the participants who were able to complete the set in the allotted time. I hope others enjoyed solving the rest of the puzzles offline. Do post here if you are stuck on any of the puzzles and I would be glad to provide hints on my intended solving path.
@ 2018-02-28 5:39 PM (#24373 - in reply to #24217) (#24373) Top

bskbri



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bskbri posted @ 2018-02-28 5:39 PM

The time count in the homepage is confusing. I wanted to start test while it was declaring the test will end in 50 minutes. But, I could not start the test in the contest page, as it said I should have started 40 minutes earlier.
@ 2018-03-01 12:59 AM (#24375 - in reply to #24217) (#24375) Top

ghirsch



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ghirsch posted @ 2018-03-01 12:59 AM

Can anyone give some hints for solving Partiti-3? I was able to prove that the bottom left corner has a 2 under an 8, and the bottom right corner has a 3 under a 7 (i.e. those four boxes only have a single number in them). But past that I'm pretty stuck.

Edited by ghirsch 2018-03-01 12:59 AM
@ 2018-03-01 12:19 PM (#24386 - in reply to #24375) (#24386) Top

amitsowani




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amitsowani posted @ 2018-03-01 12:19 PM

ghirsch - 2018-03-01 12:59 AM

Can anyone give some hints for solving Partiti-3? I was able to prove that the bottom left corner has a 2 under an 8, and the bottom right corner has a 3 under a 7 (i.e. those four boxes only have a single number in them). But past that I'm pretty stuck.


Since all the number appear in a cluster (11, 10, 9, 8 and 7) identify the possible combinations for these numbers so that can appear together in a 2X2 box of cells.
@ 2018-03-01 4:40 PM (#24387 - in reply to #24217) (#24387) Top

rob



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rob posted @ 2018-03-01 4:40 PM

Thanks Amit, I really enjoyed the puzzle set. The Partiti puzzles in particular were a lot of fun, though they feel very slow to solve to me.

(Also I can see that it would be a tough set for for the usual PR target group.)
@ 2021-02-26 12:02 AM (#28950 - in reply to #24217) (#28950) Top

achan1058



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achan1058 posted @ 2021-02-26 12:02 AM

What's the password for this? It's not showing on the contest page itself.
@ 2021-02-26 7:27 AM (#28952 - in reply to #28950) (#28952) Top

Joo M.Y



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Joo M.Y posted @ 2021-02-26 7:27 AM

achan1058 - 2021-02-26 3:02 AM

What's the password for this? It's not showing on the contest page itself.



PW = 2isharderthan1
@ 2021-04-14 3:01 PM (#29116 - in reply to #24241) (#29116) Top

alinabeth



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alinabeth posted @ 2021-04-14 3:01 PM

nice