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debmohanty
   
Country : India |
• 04/05th September • 80 Minutes • 800 Points •
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amitsowani
Posts: 349
Country : India | Why is there one yellow in an evergreens test?
Should we expect a couple of new puzzles :P |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | I find an orange/peach coloured tree. |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2010-08-30 6:24 PM A twist in a puzzle! |
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debmohanty
Country : India | There are no twists. All basic puzzle types, with varying difficulty. |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2010-08-30 11:17 PM Attractive IB :-)
In ABC Connector, all cells need not be used? |
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2010-08-31 2:13 AM Rohan Rao - 2010-08-30 11:17 PM
Attractive IB :-)
In ABC Connector, all cells need not be used?
If so, the puzzle in the IB is wrong  see the second row.
Fred |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Rohan Rao - 2010-08-30 11:17 PM
In ABC Connector, all cells need not be used? Do I need to answer the question? I think the instruction and the example match perfectly. Same in Anglers. |
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amitsowani
Posts: 349
Country : India | The IB looks perfect.
The examples and the instructions match for ABC connect and Anglers.
The instructions do not require all cells to be used.
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2010-08-31 2:35 PM debmohanty - 2010-08-31 11:51 AM
Rohan Rao - 2010-08-30 11:17 PM
In ABC Connector, all cells need not be used? Do I need to answer the question? I think the instruction and the example match perfectly. Same in Anglers.
Ok, just confirming :- ) |
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pwahs
Posts: 3
Country : Germany | pwahs posted @ 2010-08-31 3:43 PM In H2O, are diagonal connections allowed? And are Os allowed to touch Hs to which they have no connection? |
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Administrator
Country : India | pwahs - 2010-08-31 3:43 PM
In H2O, are diagonal connections allowed?
NO, only horizontal / vertical connections allowed.
pwahs - 2010-08-31 3:43 PM
And are Os allowed to touch Hs to which they have no connection? YES, Os can touch as many Hs.
Here is another example. Hope it makes it clear.
This example appeared as practice puzzle for NPC2007 |
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rajeshk
Posts: 542
Country : India | rajeshk posted @ 2010-08-31 8:01 PM debmohanty - 2010-08-31 11:51 AM
Rohan Rao - 2010-08-30 11:17 PM
In ABC Connector, all cells need not be used? Do I need to answer the question? I think the instruction and the example match perfectly. Same in Anglers.
Can a line cover 2x2 square? |
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debmohanty
Country : India | rajeshk
Can a line cover 2x2 square? can a puzzle have unique solution when a line covers 2x2 square? |
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rajeshk
Posts: 542
Country : India | rajeshk posted @ 2010-08-31 10:11 PM debmohanty - 2010-08-31 8:33 PM
rajeshk
Can a line cover 2x2 square? can a puzzle have unique solution when a line covers 2x2 square?
You are right. In fact the original puzzle where every square is used exactly once has this condition, thats why I asked this questions. Thanks for your quick reply. |
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bartunio
Posts: 6
Country : Poland | Hi, this might be a silly question, but where exactly can I find instruction booklet for the test? I think I have reviewed the whole Logic Masters India, including the Evergreens website and cannot see them... And a minor offtopic: is it possible to find pdf with your previous competitions? |
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debmohanty
Country : India | bartunio - 2010-09-01 2:27 AM
Hi, this might be a silly question, but where exactly can I find instruction booklet for the test? I think I have reviewed the whole Logic Masters India, including the Evergreens website and cannot see them... And a minor offtopic: is it possible to find pdf with your previous competitions?
When you go to EverGreen II website (http://logicmastersindia.com/M201009P/ ), on the right side of the page, Instruction Booklet is available. See image below.
For all previous competitions, you have to visit the respective pages. See this link for monthly tests and this link for mock tests.
Please post here if you still face problems. |
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bartunio
Posts: 6
Country : Poland | Great, thanks. This might have sounded a silly question as I look at it now, but this was all because I use a MSI laptop with tiny screen and thus the resolution is set in such a way that I sometimes do not see things in the edges of the screen unless I scroll it:-) Thanks again and sorry for molesting anyway. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Filling in Country field must before you can take this test. This is done primarily because of IPC next week.
When you visit EverGreens page, the login space will be slightly different from how it looked earlier.
If you already have country updated, you can login after filling in username and password.
But if your country is blank (i.e. you have never updated the country field earlier ), you have to fill in the country field before you can start the test. Otherwise, you will get error message.
To know if your country is blank OR filled, you can visit Settings. You can update the field there too.
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aldentea
Posts: 10
Country : Japan | In MASTERMIND, can the solution have 0? |
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debmohanty
Country : India | aldentea - 2010-09-03 2:30 PM
In MASTERMIND, can the solution have 0?
0s are not allowed in the solution.
Sorry for the incomplete instruction. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Puzzle Booklet uploaded. There are 13 pages. The first page has points table and one puzzle. Each other page has 2 puzzles. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Based on the discussion during Broken Pieces, partial Bonus will be awarded in this test.
We'll use Ziti's formula in this test, as an experiment basis.
If all puzzles are not correct, a factor will be computed based on your score. Your time bonus will be (number of minutes saved * this factor * 8 ).
Factor = (Points earned - 4 * points missed ) / (Total points )
In this is case, Total Points will be considered as 575.
'Points earned' will be computed with any group bonus etc.
See table below, for how much the factor will be based on the points (without group bonus )
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Administrator
Country : India | Note :
Partial Bonus will not be available in IPC.Based on the response we get in this test, we may continue / modify / drop the idea of Partial Bonus. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Following rules will be applied in order to break ties, in case there are any.
Most points without any bonusEarliest Timestamp for last correct submission
[Subject to change in other LMI tests] |
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Administrator
Country : India | The test has started.
Best of luck to all participants. |
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Semax
Posts: 10
Country : Germany | Semax posted @ 2010-09-04 3:22 PM In darts, is it possible to hit a number more than once? |
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amitsowani
Posts: 349
Country : India | In Darts the same number cannot be hit more then once.
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Semax
Posts: 10
Country : Germany | Semax posted @ 2010-09-04 5:57 PM Thank you. |
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Gotroch
Posts: 83
Country : Czech Republic | Gotroch posted @ 2010-09-04 7:40 PM Question about time bonus.
What if someone submit all puzzles ~10 mins before time limit with one error and later he realizes he made that error.
So he will submit answers again (this time correct) 1min before time limit.
With current partial bonus system it means that solver could lose points for that action.
What points that solver will be awarded? |
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Gotroch
Posts: 83
Country : Czech Republic | Gotroch posted @ 2010-09-04 7:43 PM Also If some competitor sends blank answers, he could reach better score then competitor who solves more puzzles but doesn't submit all answers.
Edited by Gotroch 2010-09-04 7:44 PM
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Administrator
Country : India | Gotroch - 2010-09-04 7:40 PM
Question about time bonus.
What if someone submit all puzzles ~10 mins before time limit with one error and later he realizes he made that error.
So he will submit answers again (this time correct) 1min before time limit.
With current partial bonus system it means that solver could lose points for that action.
What points that solver will be awarded?
We'll just consider the final submission, and not intermediate submissions.
It is not necessary that the player will lose points because of that action. There are several parameters which will limit the partial bonus. |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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Gotroch
Posts: 83
Country : Czech Republic | Gotroch posted @ 2010-09-04 8:11 PM Administrator - 2010-09-04 7:55 PM
Gotroch - 2010-09-04 7:43 PM
Also If some competitor sends blank answers, he could reach better score then competitor who solves more puzzles but doesn't submit all answers.
This is not possible.
See table in http://logicmastersindia.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=120&s...
It is not possible to get bonus if you have scored 460 or less.
I didn't mean all answers blank, just few of them (1-3 ) |
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Administrator
Country : India | still - the answer does not change.
Partial bonus will be awarded only if someone has got 465 or more. |
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Gotroch
Posts: 83
Country : Czech Republic | Gotroch posted @ 2010-09-04 8:25 PM Administrator - 2010-09-04 8:15 PM
still - the answer does not change.
Partial bonus will be awarded only if someone has got 465 or more.
OK, but then In my opinion partial bonus should be also awarded to competitor who scored 465 and more points but didn't submit all answers. |
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neerajmehrotra
Posts: 328
Country : India | Gotroch - 2010-09-04 8:25 PM
Administrator - 2010-09-04 8:15 PM
still - the answer does not change.
Partial bonus will be awarded only if someone has got 465 or more.
OK, but then In my opinion partial bonus should be also awarded to competitor who scored 465 and more points but didn't submit all answers.
I think anyone who scores more than 465 points gets the bonus irrespective of whether he submits all the puzzles or few wrong puzzles..........Am I correct???? |
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Administrator
Country : India | Neeraj, you are correct.
Please check the factor table again.
If a players submits everything in 70 minutes, and gets a score of 465 he gets a bonus point 3.
If a players submits everything in 70 minutes, and gets a score of 500 he gets a bonus point 28.
If a players submits everything in 70 minutes, and gets a score of 575 he gets a bonus point 80.
It does not matter if some puzzles are wrong or not submitted. They are treated same way.
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Administrator
Country : India | so, it is obvious that the player getting 465 in 70 minutes must try for few more puzzles in the remaining 10 minutes rather than getting satisfied with 3 bonus points. |
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Administrator
Country : India | The score page is updated to take care of different bonus points.
Players who have taken the test can check their final score by visiting the score page. |
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David McNeill
Posts: 63
Country : United Kingdom | Deb,
I submitted the answer in a slightly wrong format for Number Pyramid but I think I solved the puzzle correctly. Can you check it for me?
Thank you,
David McNeill.
PS Enjoyed the puzzles. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | David McNeill - 2010-09-05 5:26 AM
I submitted the answer in a slightly wrong format for Number Pyramid but I think I solved the puzzle correctly. Can you check it for me?
done. added 30 points to your score. |
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David McNeill
Posts: 63
Country : United Kingdom | Thanks Deb. I'll say more about the puzzles later.
David McNeill. |
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davep
Posts: 43
Country : United States | davep posted @ 2010-09-05 11:40 AM Deb -- My compliments once again - despite a rather sluggish performance, I really enjoyed the puzzles and the format. As always, looking forward to the next one!Best regards, Dave |
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debmohanty
Country : India | davep - 2010-09-05 11:40 AM
Deb -- My compliments once again - despite a rather sluggish performance, I really enjoyed the puzzles and the format. As always, looking forward to the next one!Best regards, Dave Thanks Dave. We hope to continue improving with each test. |
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Ziti
Posts: 42
Country : United States | Ziti posted @ 2010-09-05 1:42 PM Pleasant as always! I believe the answer submission was the only weakness here -- it was of course a fair answer submission but required an unfortunate amount of attention in some cases, and even then mistakes could still be made. But that is what happens with internet tests, and it did not detract from the overall enjoyment. Good work, thank you Deb. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Ziti - 2010-09-05 1:42 PM
Pleasant as always! I believe the answer submission was the only weakness here -- it was of course a fair answer submission but required an unfortunate amount of attention in some cases, and even then mistakes could still be made. But that is what happens with internet tests, and it did not detract from the overall enjoyment. Good work, thank you Deb. I agree with you. After some 'guessable' answer keys in BP, I re-did some of the answer keys for this test, and in that process some answer keys became much longer than probably needed, and hence error-prone.
But yes, as you mentioned, it is very important to strike a balance in the answer keys - between being guessable and too-lengthy/error-prone. |
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rajeshk
Posts: 542
Country : India | rajeshk posted @ 2010-09-05 7:02 PM Very nice puzzles. Enjoyed a lot solving these puzzles. Submission part was tough. Lost around 103 points as I could not submit answer for one puzzle in group E in time. Big learning from this test. Thanks Deb for creating such a great set of puzzles. |
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2010-09-05 7:14 PM Thanks for the test !
It shows to me that I'm really a "sudoku-only player", as I made a ridiculous score !
Fred |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Fred76 - 2010-09-05 7:14 PM
Thanks for the test !
It shows to me that I'm really a "sudoku-only player", as I made a ridiculous score !
Fred There is always a beginning to something new and as-exciting. |
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abhishek221
Posts: 2
Country : India | I cannot see my result
My connection was gone by the end of 80 mins.. |
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Administrator
Country : India | abhishek221 - 2010-09-05 7:46 PM
I cannot see my result
My connection was gone by the end of 80 mins.. What do you mean by "connection was gone"? Did you lose internet connection?
As per our database, there is no puzzle submitted by you. |
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Zormac
Posts: 15
Country : Hungary | Zormac posted @ 2010-09-05 8:15 PM Good test, thanks guys.
Unfortunately, I wasn't very well prepared for it in technical terms - at the start, I printed the test, realising that the colour toner is very low, meaning that some of the puzzles came out in a very low quality, unsuitable for solving. I started to solve those that were visible enough and started a 2nd printing, this time in greyscale - this was when the black toner gave in too! :-(
Of course, that doesn't explain the three submission mistakes I made, in each cases the error was made at the time of determining the submission codes over a correctly solved puzzle (overlooked an X, a double bridge and a turn in Anglers, respectively). Which is part of the contest, I guess, so it's a skill to work on later!
Cheers
z. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | @Zormac - bad luck all the way, i guess.
Thanks for participating, I don't recall many participants from Hungary at LMI in recent times (though I can't be sure since country was blank for many players in the past). Hopefully we will see more players from Hungary.
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tamz29
Posts: 225
Country : Thailand | tamz29 posted @ 2010-09-05 9:19 PM Great test, not very successful on my results.
The presentation is excellent and very welcoming for new puzzlers.
Nice set of classic puzzles and simple-to-understand layouts.
Although you may have to triple check their solution keys, which I guess is unhelpable.
All in all, 5 stars. Congratulations
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amnon
Posts: 6
Country : Israel | amnon posted @ 2010-09-05 9:51 PM debmohanty - 2010-08-31 5:33 PM
rajeshk
Can a line cover 2x2 square? can a puzzle have unique solution when a line covers 2x2 square?
A rule that a line can't cover a 2x2 square may be needed in some puzzles, to force a unique solution.
If such a rule does not included, one may use the fact that the puzzle has a unique solution, without this rule.
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amnon
Posts: 6
Country : Israel | amnon posted @ 2010-09-05 9:57 PM Two questions:
1. In H2O, based on the examples (and chemistry), molecules are always arranged as H-O-H and not H-H-O, but such a rule is not included. Does H-H-O possible?
2. In half dominoes, does the half dominoes should be placed in the marked 3x3 boxes, without overlapping, as in the example?
Thanks, Amnon
Edited by amnon 2010-09-05 9:58 PM
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amitsowani
Posts: 349
Country : India | @amnon
In H20 the atoms cannot be connected as H-H-O. They can only be connected as H-O-H.
In half dominoes the dominoes need to be placed in the marked 3X3 boxes without overlapping.
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gramar
Posts: 9
Country : United Kingdom | gramar posted @ 2010-09-06 2:01 AM Just to say thanks for the test - many of the puzzles were unknown to me but I really enjoyed having a go despite my extremely low score (although I did complete another 3 of the questions correctly worth 50 points but very stupidly made mistakes in counting the number of turns in both ABC connectors and Masyu and miscounted one of the rows of Xs in the No Four in a row puzzle! ) Not to worry, at least I'll be a bit more careful submitting the results in future! A great selection of puzzles which I will now go away and finish at leisure! Need to get the brain cells ticking over a little quicker! |
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amnon
Posts: 6
Country : Israel | amnon posted @ 2010-09-06 5:04 AM First I add my thanks for the nice puzzles.
The interesting bonus system requires different approach for the selection of problems to solve.
There is some problem with my submission of the Queens park puzzle. I entered the right solution in the form (I can still see it) and I submitted 3 answers after this one which were received correctly. It tells me that answers to 13 puzzles were submitted, which is the number I sent, including the Queens park.
However, in the results page I see the Queens park, but with empty solution.
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Administrator
Country : India | amnon, check now |
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Administrator
Country : India | Any other claims from any player, please post soon before we make the results public. |
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amnon
Posts: 6
Country : Israel | amnon posted @ 2010-09-06 5:27 AM It's OK now, thanks. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Congratulations to Thomas, Ulrich, Hideaki for topping in EverGreen II.
Out of 214 participants, 166 got non zero scores - both numbers are better than any other tests at LMI.
Thank you everyone for participating. |
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amitsowani
Posts: 349
Country : India | @ amnon
Thanks for your comments about the separate bonuses for the different puzzle sections and different puzzle difficulties.
We have tried to draw inspiration from the Brazilian Puzzle Championships and the WPC in Brazil where they gave extra credit to for participants attempting puzzles across different puzzle types.
@Everybody
Please let us know how you feel about these bonuses and what we can do to improve the bonus system.
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motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2010-09-06 12:31 PM Thanks again for running a great puzzle test!
Re: the bonuses, both in my planning before the test and during the test, I figured I would be able to keep track of the "rows" and use that to know if I should stick with a puzzle or not, but it was more difficult to follow the columns or game-plan in the same way since it was less obvious on a single page of the answer sheet that some set was being completed. Perhaps a more involved user-interface would help, but my general opinion is that "group" bonuses can be a good idea but doing two different sorts as here was a little more complicated than its value.
One different aspect in Brazil is that the test-setters wanted people to spread out their work, so they used variable scores for the puzzles in each part, where here the bonuses seemed to encourage people to focus within a difficulty level or puzzle column. Perhaps the right bonus is some multiplicative factor like (# of group A solved * # of group B solved * # of group C solved ...)^some exponent. Then if you want a test with arithmetic puzzles and loop puzzles and sudoku and such grouped into sections, solvers have a motivation to go between the sections more. I'll think about this idea more for the future to see if a good system avails itself. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | @motris,
I agree with both your points about this test
1) grouping should be done based on puzzle type, rather than difficulty
2) 2 different bonus system was not necessarily nice, since little planning about it can be done. May be if the puzzles were grouped by 'types' and same column had different point-puzzles, it would have made little more sense. [so that every player has to solve easy puzzles and difficult puzzles to get column bonus]. But that might just make it more complicated. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Thanks to Amit - for testing all the puzzles. His timings helped me put the puzzles into different groups.
Thanks to David - for designing the banner for the test.
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pwahs
Posts: 3
Country : Germany | pwahs posted @ 2010-09-06 1:30 PM Also from me, thanks for the nice contest!
@motris: I disagree that keeping track of the columns was hard, you just needed to have the table next to you and cross out all the puzzles you solved.
But there is another disadvantage with those multidimensional bonuses: One mistake might be punished 3 times (with time bonus 4 times). E.g. I lost more than 100 points by not counting the given 2 in the polymino puzzle. |
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forcolin
Posts: 172
Country : ITALY | Unfortunately this happened to me as well, 1 error in counting vertical bridges, 3 penalties.
This was the icing on the cake of a horrible performance from me...
Excellent set of puzzles which has been rewarded by a great number of players from all over the world. The formula chosen with a relatively short time, good mix of puzzles from relatively easy to not too difficult, and two days time to play seems to be the winning combination. Hope to see more.
Will never thank enough puzzlers like you who spend time in organizing contests like this one.
Stefano |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Thanks for some excellent puzzles. I was able to look at only A and E groups in the given time and the puzzles were indeed as expected - easy in group A and not-so-easy in Group E. Darts was also very easy - Later when I looked at it, I could solve it visually. ABCD 2nd end view was a good idea and I have not seen this elsewhere. I was not able to make much of a headway in Dutch Loop, except for the border rows/columns. Can someone explain good logical starting points for solving the puzzle.
Regarding the bonus point system, it was a nice multi-dimensional concept and must have kept the participants busy with a parallel calculation. I won't be able to comment whether it was good/effective or not. Looks like it probably was. But others who got bonus points, or narowly missed bonus points, can probably comment on it. So far, I have already seen three comments already where participants suffered to the tune of 100+ points because of one mistake. |
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thesubro
Posts: 23
Country : United States | Thanks for the fun puzzles. Not sure that I saw the connection from a difficulty perspective or grouping perspective to attribute bonuses, but I will leave that to the higher dwellers to figure out. I am a bit of a turtle when it comes to puzzles, so a sprint test like this is not my forte, but the medium level and size of the puzzles did force my hand and I very much enjoyed the contest.
On a side note, this is probably the first time I can say that I beat Nick Baxter at anything. In turn, if Nick wants to turn over the responsibility for the US Team to me to run going forward, I accept.
Thanks again. Looking forward to the next tone already.
Ken
"TheSubro"
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debmohanty
Country : India | rakesh_rai - 2010-09-06 7:54 PM
Thanks for some excellent puzzles. I was able to look at only A and E groups in the given time and the puzzles were indeed as expected - easy in group A and not-so-easy in Group E. Darts was also very easy - Later when I looked at it, I could solve it visually. Yes, the dart puzzle was very easy - and was misplaced in group C. Not surprisingly, it got lowest rating 2.78 |
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debmohanty
Country : India | rakesh_rai - 2010-09-06 7:54 PM
I was not able to make much of a headway in Dutch Loop, except for the border rows/columns. Can someone explain good logical starting points for solving the puzzle. Can you share where exactly you are stuck? I can explain from there. This is probably the only puzzle in the test which needs thinking 1 or 2 steps ahead. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Never mind...while trying to create the image for posting here, I managed to solve it. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Solving the Number Pyramid applying Uniqueness funda discusssed here |
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zaki
Posts: 5
Country : Poland | zaki posted @ 2010-09-08 3:01 AM Hello,
where can I find the link to the complete answers to this test? I have gone through all the web page and I have not seen it anywhere.
Regards,
Zaki |
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debmohanty
Country : India | zaki - 2010-09-08 3:01 AM
where can I find the link to the complete answers to this test? I have gone through all the web page and I have not seen it anywhere.
Just uploaded solutions to most puzzles. It is available in the right side of the submission page. |
LMI September Puzzle Test - EverGreens II
