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Converse - 12th-15th Feb - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier74 posts • Page 1 of 3 • 1 2 3
@ 2016-01-31 8:56 PM (#20869) (#20869) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2016-01-31 8:56 PM





Link for rules and other details about Sudoku Mahabharat : http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/2015-16.asp
Instructions for Converse - http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/201602/

@ 2016-02-05 12:24 PM (#20920 - in reply to #20869) (#20920) Top

smitra



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smitra posted @ 2016-02-05 12:24 PM

how to participate in this ?
@ 2016-02-05 1:13 PM (#20921 - in reply to #20869) (#20921) Top

prasanna16391



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prasanna16391 posted @ 2016-02-05 1:13 PM

Please go through the F.A.Q. here - http://logicmastersindia.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=381

If you have any further queries, feel free to ask.
@ 2016-02-06 6:24 AM (#20926 - in reply to #20869) (#20926) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2016-02-06 6:24 AM

Since it coincides with TVC XIX, this will start a day earlier (i.e. on 12th) than usual SM episodes.
@ 2016-02-06 5:23 PM (#20929 - in reply to #20869) (#20929) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2016-02-06 5:23 PM

Instructions published.

Link: http://logicmastersindia.com/SM/201602/
@ 2016-02-06 6:10 PM (#20930 - in reply to #20869) (#20930) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2016-02-06 6:10 PM

Can the duration of the test be added to the IB?
I'm sure most of us know the timings and duration, but it was pointed out last time and there's a chance a newcomer 'might' miss it too.
@ 2016-02-07 3:07 AM (#20936 - in reply to #20930) (#20936) Top

kishy72



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kishy72 posted @ 2016-02-07 3:07 AM

Just to clarify . Please correct me if I am wrong.
In QuadMax 4Odd 4Even Sudoku ,the arrows provide 2 kinds of information.
i)All 4 cells comprised by a single arrow are of the same parity .
ii)The arrows point towards the cell with the highest digit.In case there are 2 digits with the highest value,they will be represented by arrows with double heads.

Also ,apart from the above,I remember seeing Average in an earlier SM round (not this year) and finding it unpleasantly sticky.Can someone direct me straight to that round? I think that round was authored by Rohan or Rakesh ?!
@ 2016-02-07 3:35 AM (#20937 - in reply to #20869) (#20937) Top

shera90




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shera90 posted @ 2016-02-07 3:35 AM

In kropki, if no dots are there can it be supposed that neither the difference is 1 nor one one digit is half of other ?

And one question more, can someone give me few starting clues as to how to solve average 6*6 and average 9*9 in IB because I am confused from where to start
@ 2016-02-07 4:13 AM (#20938 - in reply to #20936) (#20938) Top

swaroop2011




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swaroop2011 posted @ 2016-02-07 4:13 AM

kishy72 - 2016-02-07 3:07 AM

Also ,apart from the above,I remember seeing Average in an earlier SM round (not this year) and finding it unpleasantly sticky.Can someone direct me straight to that round? I think that round was authored by Rohan or Rakesh ?!


Yes , it was in last year's Converse SM round authored by Me :)
Here is link: http://logicmastersindia.com/lmitests/?test=SM201503
@ 2016-02-07 4:17 AM (#20939 - in reply to #20937) (#20939) Top

swaroop2011




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swaroop2011 posted @ 2016-02-07 4:17 AM

shera90 - 2016-02-07 3:35 AM

And one question more, can someone give me few starting clues as to how to solve average 6*6 and average 9*9 in IB because I am confused from where to start


For 6x6, look at 3rd row. There will be 1 at R3c6 and 6 at r4c1. This should give you start. Remember Extreme numbers can never be on the cell with average symbol. i.e. 1,6 for this example and 1,9 for 9x9 grid.
I am posting one more post with practice links and tips. That will help you to get started.

Edited by swaroop2011 2016-02-07 4:17 AM
@ 2016-02-07 4:18 AM (#20940 - in reply to #20869) (#20940) Top

swaroop2011




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swaroop2011 posted @ 2016-02-07 4:18 AM

This was from last year's Converse Round, authored by me, and i had shared some helpful links and tips that time. Hope that helps again.
Follow the link:
http://swaroopg92.blogspot.com/2015/03/sudoku-mahabharat-episode-7-...
@ 2016-02-07 4:29 AM (#20941 - in reply to #20869) (#20941) Top

prasanna16391



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prasanna16391 posted @ 2016-02-07 4:29 AM

In addition to Swaroop's post of assembled links and tips, I thought I'd share the only site where I have prominently seen Quad Max 4 Even 4 Odd - http://www.argio-logic.net/ . If I remember right (I have been auto-logged in for years now), registration is done by clicking on the forum link. Once registered, clicking on the 'Sudoku' link near the top left of the home page link I shared should give a list of Sudoku variants where Quad Max 4 Even 4 Odd will be there.
@ 2016-02-07 1:07 PM (#20942 - in reply to #20941) (#20942) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2016-02-07 1:07 PM

Rohan Rao - 2016-02-06 6:10 PM

Can the duration of the test be added to the IB?
We will add to the IB in the next version when we also add the points table.

kishy72 - 2016-02-07 3:07 AM

Just to clarify . Please correct me if I am wrong.
In QuadMax 4Odd 4Even Sudoku ,the arrows provide 2 kinds of information.
i)All 4 cells comprised by a single arrow are of the same parity .
ii)The arrows point towards the cell with the highest digit.In case there are 2 digits with the highest value,they will be represented by arrows with double heads.
Precisely! There are three possible cases - (a) No arrows: The 4 cells do not all have the same parity, (b) One sided arrow: All 4 cells have same parity and the cell where arrow points has the highest value. (c) Two sided arrow: All 4 cells have same parity and both cells where the arrow points have the highest value.

shera90 - 2016-02-07 3:35 AM

In kropki, if no dots are there can it be supposed that neither the difference is 1 nor one one digit is half of other ?
Absolutely!
@ 2016-02-10 5:58 AM (#20949 - in reply to #20869) (#20949) Top

Raphael



Raphael posted @ 2016-02-10 5:58 AM

It is an interesting twist that the number of points that the X-sums frame sudoku is worth must be figured out during solving!

;)
@ 2016-02-10 11:08 PM (#20953 - in reply to #20869) (#20953) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2016-02-10 11:08 PM

For those who missed the Sudoku GP Round-2 last weekend, it might be useful to try out some of the variants. Though, not explicitly mentioned, many of them turned out to be 'Converse'-like variants. Good practise before the Converse round in SM.
http://gp.worldpuzzle.org/content/sudoku-gp
@ 2016-02-11 8:05 AM (#20954 - in reply to #20953) (#20954) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2016-02-11 8:05 AM

A partcipant asked this question. Sharing it here as it may be relevant for all.

i hv a question regarding x sum frame in converse variations sudoku instruction booklet
in the 6X6 grid m getting left with numbers 4 and 3 left in the second column of the first grid and same numbers in the parallel grid in 5th column.
can you tell me where m getting it wrong.

Since there is no X to the left of the first row, by converse rule, the sum of the first three numbers cannot be equal to X. (X=7 here) If row 1 column 2 has a 4 the sum of first three numbers in row 1 becomes 7. So this cell must contain 3.
@ 2016-02-11 9:38 AM (#20955 - in reply to #20869) (#20955) Top

rajeshk




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rajeshk posted @ 2016-02-11 9:38 AM

Here are some of the practice puzzles for the three variations appearing in this test
Average Sudoku: http://www.funwithpuzzles.com/2015/11/average-sudoku-puzzles.html
Consecutive Sudoku: http://www.funwithpuzzles.com/2015/06/non-consecutive-sudoku-puzzle...
Kropki Sudoku: http://www.funwithpuzzles.com/2015/09/kropki-puzzles.html



@ 2016-02-11 8:32 PM (#20957 - in reply to #20869) (#20957) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2016-02-11 8:32 PM

Points Table

Instruction Booklet is re-uploaded with points table. Here it is for your quick reference.



@ 2016-02-12 1:55 AM (#20960 - in reply to #20869) (#20960) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2016-02-12 1:55 AM

 How well did the variants represent the theme of the test ? variations represented the theme well
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Classic Sudoku
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Many puzzles were worth too much or too little


@ 2016-02-12 7:44 AM (#20961 - in reply to #20869) (#20961) Top

shera90




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shera90 posted @ 2016-02-12 7:44 AM

Anybody give some clues on kropki sudoku 9*9 from IB. I want to know how to start as there are very few clues and I don't know where to start.

And also please give some starting clues for x sum frame 9*9 from IB.

Edited by shera90 2016-02-12 8:14 AM
@ 2016-02-12 8:24 AM (#20962 - in reply to #20961) (#20962) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2016-02-12 8:24 AM

shera90 - 2016-02-12 7:44 AM

Anybody give some clues on kropki sudoku 9*9 from IB. I want to know how to start as there are very few clues and I don't know where to start.

Look at column 4. Because of the 2s in col5 and col6, a 2 must come in C4R1 or C4R2 -> this means C4R1 and C4R2 must have the numbers 2 and 3. Then C4R4 has possible options as 5,6,7. 5 and 7 are not possible because of converse rule. So it must have the number 6. C4R6 now has possible options 5 or 7. If it is 7 then C4R8 and C4R9 will be 4 and 5, which is not possible. So C4R6 must be 5. Now C4R9 must be 4 as we have a black circle. And C4R7 is 7.

In general, try to start around black circles, as they are the most likely places to start. Then try to look for long consecutive sequences in a row/column/box. If you are stuck or there is less progress initially, some amount of pencilmarking around the marked circles can help get the breakthrough. After that make sure you do not forget classic rules AND converse rules. For example, if a cell has 3 and there are no circles then the neighbours cannot be 2,4, or 6.

I hope you will be able to solve this one now.
@ 2016-02-12 8:45 AM (#20963 - in reply to #20961) (#20963) Top

Guest



Guest posted @ 2016-02-12 8:45 AM

>>>And also please give some starting clues for x sum frame 9*9 from IB.

IB X sum frame 9x9: C4R4 = 4 (singlet). Concentrate on C5... C5R4 and C5R6 must contain (2,6). So, R5C4 and R5C6 must contain (3,8). Also observe that, C3R4 = C7R6 = 8.
@ 2016-02-12 8:59 AM (#20964 - in reply to #20963) (#20964) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2016-02-12 8:59 AM

Guest - 2016-02-12 8:45 AM

>>>And also please give some starting clues for x sum frame 9*9 from IB.

IB X sum frame 9x9: C4R4 = 4 (singlet). Concentrate on C5... C5R4 and C5R6 must contain (2,6). So, R5C4 and R5C6 must contain (3,8). Also observe that, C3R4 = C7R6 = 8.


Can you explain how you got (2,6) and (3,8) ?
@ 2016-02-12 9:01 AM (#20965 - in reply to #20964) (#20965) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2016-02-12 9:01 AM

>>>And also please give some starting clues for x sum frame 9*9 from IB.

The starting approach has to be to find the possibilities for X, without forgetting classic rules.

For example, in the IB, if we look at column 6, the first three numbers can have three numbers from 3,5,8 and 9. So the possible values of X are 16, 17, 20 or 22.

Now look at row 6. The possible values for first three numbers are 2,6,7,8 and 9. Using these numbers, we cannot make 20. So X cannot be 20. Also, if X=16, then we need to have 2,6 and 8 as first three numbers. Then we cannot place any number in R6C5. So X cannot be 16 either.

The possible values for X are now 17 or 22.

Similarly, you can deduct that X cannot be 17 as it leads to a contradiction in Boxes 4/5/6.

Once X is identified as 22, there are only two ways to make 22 (589 or 679). You will be able to solve easily after that.
@ 2016-02-12 11:11 AM (#20966 - in reply to #20965) (#20966) Top

harmeets



harmeets posted @ 2016-02-12 11:11 AM

>>>Can you explain how you got (2,6) and (3,8) ?

In column C5, the middle 3 numbers (in r4,r5,r6) must add up to 12. Two numbers are 4 and 2, so 3rd one must be 6.
Why the middle numbers add to 12? Because in C5, 1st 3 numbers (r1,r2,r3) = (45 - X - 12), and last 3 numbers (r7,r8,r9) = X. So middle 3 numbers = (45 - (45 - X - 12) - X) = 12.
Converse - 12th-15th Feb - Sudoku Mahabharat & ISC Qualifier74 posts • Page 1 of 3 • 1 2 3
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