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Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier
   LMI Tests -> Puzzle Ramayan76 posts • Page 1 of 4 • 1 2 3 4
Administrator
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-23 2:40 PM (#26482 - in reply to #26477) (#26482) Top


200050010010020
Location: India
rob - 2019-01-22 9:11 PM

Also, the contest page is titled Classics and Evergreens.

The contest does include some classic/evergreen puzzles like minesweeper, fillomino, skyscraper and tapa.

The contest name will be corrected before the start of the test.
Administrator
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-23 9:58 PM (#26483 - in reply to #26467) (#26483) Top


200050010010020
Location: India

Updated Instruction Booklet


A further updated version of the Instruction Booklet is now available: http://logicmastersindia.com/PR/2019012/

Changes
- Puzzle 19-22: Name change and instructions re-worded
- Points Table: Name change of one puzzle
- Puzzle 13-16: Answer key description changed for minesweeper

randomperson1729
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 5:57 AM (#26484 - in reply to #26467) (#26484) Top




Posts: 7

Location: USA
For the linked minesweeper/nanro, are numbered cells always blank, or can there be a mine on those spaces? The instructions were not clear on that front.
Administrator
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 11:21 AM (#26485 - in reply to #26484) (#26485) Top


200050010010020
Location: India
randomperson1729 - 2019-01-25 5:57 AM

For the linked minesweeper/nanro, are numbered cells always blank, or can there be a mine on those spaces? The instructions were not clear on that front.

For the minesweeper, numbered cells cannot contain mines. The instructions mention this indirectly "Place mines in some empty cells"
Administrator
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 11:51 AM (#26486 - in reply to #26467) (#26486) Top


200050010010020
Location: India

Final Instruction Booklet


An updated version of the Instruction Booklet is now available: http://logicmastersindia.com/PR/2019012/

Changes
- Points table added
- Kurotto example and instructions updated (Note on circles added)
- Minesweeper instructions clarification added

Administrator
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 11:59 AM (#26487 - in reply to #26467) (#26487) Top


200050010010020
Location: India

Puzzle Booklet and Test Start Time


Puzzle Booklet is available for download on the contest page.

The test will start around 15:00 IST.

Administrator
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 12:00 PM (#26488 - in reply to #26482) (#26488) Top


200050010010020
Location: India
Administrator - 2019-01-23 2:40 PM

rob - 2019-01-22 9:11 PM

Also, the contest page is titled Classics and Evergreens.

The contest does include some classic/evergreen puzzles like minesweeper, fillomino, skyscraper and tapa.

The contest name will be corrected before the start of the test.

This is corrected now.
Administrator
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 3:02 PM (#26489 - in reply to #26488) (#26489) Top


200050010010020
Location: India
The test has started now.
An LMI player
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 4:07 PM (#26490 - in reply to #26467) (#26490) Top


 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Linked Maxi Loop
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


rob
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 7:59 PM (#26491 - in reply to #26467) (#26491) Top


Classics & Regions (PR 2016/17) Author

Posts: 152
1002020
Location: Germany
Great concept, and pretty good test, thanks Prasanna!

I tripped up a bit on the first Twopa, thinking I couldn't get out under the 13s in both puzzles. I feel like they were quite tricky anyway, an easier starting type would have felt more friendly.

The Fillomino relay types are really fun ideas. Some of the types were a bit low on interaction, with the connection rule mostly coming in towards the end of the solve. But keeping them easy seems appropriate for the PR.

* The Twopa disambiguation via shaded cells late in the solve were a bit of a pain. If you want to do it like this, at least ask for the same rows/columns in both grids, so it's easy to read off if you've solved the other way around? Or ideally just accept both combinations.
* The code order and direction on the right grids in the 4-by-4 types is confusing. Intuitively, I'd want to fill the "top" codes before the "right" codes, and read the "right" codes right-to-left. Improvement (but not perfect): point the arrows on the right and below the grid right and down, respectively.

Administrator
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 10:21 PM (#26492 - in reply to #26467) (#26492) Top


200050010010020
Location: India
* The Twopa disambiguation via shaded cells late in the solve were a bit of a pain. If you want to do it like this, at least ask for the same rows/columns in both grids, so it's easy to read off if you've solved the other way around? Or ideally just accept both combinations.

Valid point. If a solver ended up solving the other way around, answer keys for 1 go into 2, and answer keys for 2 go into 1. Of course, you would have to select the correct rows/columns. But that should not be a big constraint (we thought so). We had a discussion on this exact point before the contest and then decided to go ahead with the current approach. If it was an offline contest, there would be no issue but this adjustment was only because the contest is "online."

* The code order and direction on the right grids in the 4-by-4 types is confusing. Intuitively, I'd want to fill the "top" codes before the "right" codes, and read the "right" codes right-to-left. Improvement (but not perfect): point the arrows on the right and below the grid right and down, respectively.

If someone enters top code before right code (that is intuitive), it will still be marked correct (although it is not mentioned anywhere). We have emphasized left-to-right and top-to-bottom wherever possible. And the IB examples also illustrate that. We just wanted to stick to the "rows before columns" mentioned under the generic section ("If one row and one column is marked, enter the row first and then the column"). Your idea about the arrows' direction is also a good one, perhaps better than the current depiction. We did not want the arrow to point outside the grid, as that may have also introduced some confusion.

Thanks for the useful suggestions!
An LMI player
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 11:05 PM (#26493 - in reply to #26467) (#26493) Top


 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Fillomino-Norinori Relay
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


ghirsch
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-25 11:13 PM (#26494 - in reply to #26467) (#26494) Top




Posts: 88
20202020
Location: USA
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Linked Maxi Loop
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? I have a different complaint


Regarding answer keys I think backward arrows are confusing.

I would also prefer if Twopa did not have shaded squares to force each solution to go in a specific grid, since that gives a potentially undesired break-in, and it makes it hard to plan answer drawing. I don't know if the scoring setup allows for multiple possible answers though.

I also don't like that the answer keys were separate for each grid, since if you guess to finish one piece of the puzzle I don't think you should be able to confirm that it's right until you finish the other grids.


Otherwise, I loved this contest though! I think connected puzzles are always really fun, and it's cool to see a full contest of them.


EDIT: Looks like rob already said a lot of the same things.

Edited by ghirsch 2019-01-25 11:14 PM
Administrator
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 12:19 AM (#26495 - in reply to #26467) (#26495) Top


200050010010020
Location: India
I also don't like that the answer keys were separate for each grid, since if you guess to finish one piece of the puzzle I don't think you should be able to confirm that it's right until you finish the other grids.

Your point may be valid. But we were very clear that we wanted to encourage partial points, especially for more beginner kind of solvers.
boing
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 12:32 AM (#26496 - in reply to #26494) (#26496) Top




Posts: 3

Location: USA
ghirsch - 2019-01-26 11:13 AM
Regarding answer keys I think backward arrows are confusing.


Very! In some of the puzzles the answer key instructions made it clear that the reading order was still left-to-right and top-to-bottom but not in all, and I happened to start with Norinori which did not include those instructions so I lost points because of this. I hope admins will consider retroactively awarding points for backwards answers on those - I'm sure I'm not the only one!

EDIT: other than that this was great :D

Edited by boing 2019-01-26 12:33 AM
An LMI player
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 1:48 AM (#26497 - in reply to #26467) (#26497) Top


 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Linked Minesweeper-Nanro
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Answer key arrrows poiinting left were slightly confusing.
Francwe
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 4:37 AM (#26498 - in reply to #26467) (#26498) Top




Posts: 1

Location: France
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Linked Skyscrapers-Easy as 123
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


An LMI player
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 9:53 AM (#26499 - in reply to #26467) (#26499) Top


 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Linked Skyscrapers-Easy as 123
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Mostly the same comments as ghirsch. I got tripped up by the left arrow in the norinori (like boing) and found the twopas confusing because of the one shaded cell.

In the twopa rules: "This means, in a multi-digit clue, some of the digits can have the same behavior, but not all," I would have liked the example puzzle to clarify whether a single-digit clue could have identical behaviour between two grids (I guessed not but couldn't solve the puzzle).

With partial marks I noticed one of my mistakes by submitting an incorrect subpart which you wouldn't usually be able to notice, so I felt like having separate answer keys was bad - perhaps you could still submit separate answer keys but only mark them individually at the end of the contest / when all other subgrids have also been submitted.

A very nice test though - the logic was nicer than I was expecting in the puzzles I did solve (especially the linked skyscrapers-easy as 123).

mstang
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 10:40 AM (#26500 - in reply to #26467) (#26500) Top





Posts: 47
2020
Location: USA
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Twopa
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


I also got tripped up by some backwards arrows, and I couldn't finish the harder Linked Maxi Loop! Still, nice puzzles overall.

Personally, I think the Fillomino/Star Battle relay was worth (a lot) more than 2+2 points.

Edited by mstang 2019-01-26 10:48 AM
mstang
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 10:45 AM (#26501 - in reply to #26499) (#26501) Top





Posts: 47
2020
Location: USA
@2 above:

Yes, the rules for Twopa as I would state them are: "for any pair of corresponding clues in the two grids, the arrangements of shaded/unshaded cells in the (usually 8) neighboring squares cannot be exactly the same." So that applies to single-digit clues equally well.

Edited by mstang 2019-01-26 10:47 AM
puzzler05
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 11:44 AM (#26502 - in reply to #26467) (#26502) Top




Posts: 3

Location: korea rep
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many medium difficult puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Below Average
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Twopa
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


An LMI player
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 12:37 PM (#26503 - in reply to #26467) (#26503) Top


 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Linked Maxi Loop
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? I have a different complaint


Grid for Cave(17) was too thinly coloured
chaotic_iak
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 2:22 PM (#26504 - in reply to #26467) (#26504) Top



NEW, HUGE, AND CHALLENGING Author

Posts: 228
10010020
Location: Indonesia
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Fillomino-Norinori Relay
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Very interesting, novel theme. Many interesting uses of connected puzzles. I'm not sure if it fits for PR, but seeing the many easy puzzles I think it works well enough. Some problems:

- Connected puzzles should be considered as a single puzzle. Answer keys should span over the many grids, otherwise solvers can check partial work by submitting the answer for a grid, and if it's correct work from it for the other grids. Unless this is intentional.

- Some grids are (mostly) solvable without using the connected gimmick. Again, this might be intentional due to this being PR, but I see that as a downside.

But overall trying a new mechanic like this is interesting and I'd like to see more. Maybe variants like "liar" or something as a theme?

Edit: Apparently this echoes a lot of similar comments. Well.

Edited by chaotic_iak 2019-01-26 2:26 PM
JonaS2010
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 4:10 PM (#26505 - in reply to #26467) (#26505) Top




Posts: 17

Location: Germany
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Linked Maxi Loop


For some reason I kept making mistakes, especially on the large Maxi Loops, which I printed out again. Still happy to have finished the round.

There were some great puzzles here, and I generally enjoy linked or relay puzzles. I hope this becomes a regular round in PR. Thanks Prasanna for the very enjoyable set!
Administrator
Subject: Re: Connected Puzzles - 25th - 29th Jan 2019 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier @ 2019-01-26 4:48 PM (#26506 - in reply to #26505) (#26506) Top


200050010010020
Location: India
boing ->...I happened to start with Norinori which did not include those instructions so I lost points because of this. I hope admins will consider retroactively awarding points for backwards answers on those...

Yes
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