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Country : India | |
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Administrator
Country : India |
Logic Masters India announces September Sudoku Test — Sudoku Day
Dates : 6 th - 9 th September
Instruction Booklet & Submission : Link
Author : Nikola Zivanovic
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debmohanty
Country : India | Firstly, thanks to Nikola for bringing this concept of having Sudoku test with 9X9 innovative variants to celebrate International Sudoku Day. I hope everyone enjoys the sudokus.
While we were discussing about this concept, we agreed that it will be a good tradition to continue over the years. Nikola further suggested that the winner of this year's contest should be given the opportunity (or challenge ) to write the contest for next year. I think that is a very nice idea. At the same time, it is not a rule (it is not written in the IB  ), just a suggestion at the moment from Nikola, me and others at LMI.
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2014-09-01 4:35 PM debmohanty - 2014-09-01 4:31 PM
Nikola further suggested that the winner of this year's contest should be given the opportunity (or challenge ) to write the contest for next year. I think that is a very nice idea. At the same time, it is not a rule (it is not written in the IB ), just a suggestion at the moment from Nikola, me and others at LMI.
Careful... let it not demotivate players to vie for the top spot ;- )
On a serious note, I think its a nice simple idea and I hope the trend catches on! |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | In Rolling the Dice Sudoku: The two adjacent shaded digits should be such that they are adjacent on the dice is implied right ? |
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Nikola
Posts: 103
Country : Serbia | Nikola posted @ 2014-09-02 4:47 AM swaroop2011 - 2014-09-02 1:01 AM
In Rolling the Dice Sudoku: The two adjacent shaded digits should be such that they are adjacent on the dice is implied right ?
Correct. |
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mohanprashanth
Posts: 14
Country : India | Will you be uploading a booklet which has samples for each of the variant? |
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debmohanty
Country : India | mohanprashanth - 2014-09-02 9:07 AM
Will you be uploading a booklet which has samples for each of the variant?
This test is an exception - we are not going to have samples as mentioned in the IB. |
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swaroop2011
Posts: 668
Country : India | Nikola - 2014-09-02 4:47 AM
swaroop2011 - 2014-09-02 1:01 AM
In Rolling the Dice Sudoku: The two adjacent shaded digits should be such that they are adjacent on the dice is implied right ?
Correct.
Thanks. |
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mohanprashanth
Posts: 14
Country : India | Oh, yes. I didn't notice that part in the booklet. BTW can you give more elaborate explanations for the rules in T-crossword, aspirator and diagonal path sudokus? |
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Administrator
Country : India | mohanprashanth - 2014-09-03 5:24 PM
Oh, yes. I didn't notice that part in the booklet. BTW can you give more elaborate explanations for the rules in T-crossword, aspirator and diagonal path sudokus? Hi Mohan, Please be specific with your questions. If you can post the exact difficulty you are facing while trying to understand the rules, we will be able to answer. |
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mohanprashanth
Posts: 14
Country : India | "Each number from the top row of the grid has its own diagonal way(at least one) throughout the same numbers to a couple in the bottom row." This is in the diagonal path sudoku. What does this mean? |
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Administrator
Country : India | mohanprashanth - 2014-09-04 1:03 PM
"Each number from the top row of the grid has its own diagonal way(at least one) throughout the same numbers to a couple in the bottom row." This is in the diagonal path sudoku. What does this mean?
In image below, see how the 3 in the top row can be connected to the 3 in the bottom row diagonally. Similarly 6 in the top row can be connected to 6 in the bottom row diagonally.
At least one such diagonal path must exist for each number in the top row.
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mohanprashanth
Posts: 14
Country : India | "to a couple in the bottom row",what does this mean? And in your reply, you mentioned "Similar diagonal path (at least one) must exist for each number in the top row." . Can you also illustrate this?
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mohanprashanth
Posts: 14
Country : India | Moreover, since in a sudoku one digit can appear only once in a column and row, the path will always be diagonal. Why do you keep mentioning it? |
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Administrator
Country : India | mohanprashanth - 2014-09-04 1:22 PM
"to a couple in the bottom row",what does this mean?
That probably needs to be phrased differently, but the rule means is the numbers in the top row has to be connected with the corresponding number in bottom row.
mohanprashanth - 2014-09-04 1:22 PM
And in your reply, you mentioned "Similar diagonal path (at least one) must exist for each number in the top row." . Can you also illustrate this?
In image below, 2 different paths exist for 6, one in red, other in blue. This is valid. More than 1 path may exist for a number, but there should at least be one.
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Administrator
Country : India | mohanprashanth - 2014-09-04 1:24 PM
Moreover, since in a sudoku one digit can appear only once in a column and row, the path will always be diagonal. Why do you keep mentioning it? No particular reason why I mentioned it so many times (Possibly because in most puzzles involving paths/loops, paths always consists of vertical/horizontal segments ) |
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mohanprashanth
Posts: 14
Country : India | OK :). I have two more questions. In the aspirator sudoku, what do you mean when you say the aspirator sucks up cells? That is, how do the aspirator and the sucked cells change after the aspirator sucks them? |
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Administrator
Country : India | mohanprashanth - 2014-09-04 1:47 PM
OK :). I have two more questions. In the aspirator sudoku, what do you mean when you say the aspirator sucks up cells? That is, how do the aspirator and the sucked cells change after the aspirator sucks them?
Nothing changes actually. Numbers in aspirator or sucked cells do NOT change.
It just means number in "the aspirator cell" is greater than numbers in all the "sucked cells". Also, all possible sucked cells in 8 directions are given. "Suction" stops when they hit the wall or a number >= the aspirator cell.
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mohanprashanth
Posts: 14
Country : India | Thank you very much. All this was very useful. But, don't certain instructions seem misleading or far-fetched or is it just me? |
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Administrator
Country : India | mohanprashanth - 2014-09-04 2:08 PM
But, don't certain instructions seem misleading or far-fetched or is it just me? None of the above.
These are 9 never seen variants, and we expected many more questions about the rules than what we have seen so far. |
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mohanprashanth
Posts: 14
Country : India | OK, then let me add to the question count. This is in the T crossword sudoku:"Place the given list of words into the grid (across or down) to form an interlocking crossword, so only the words in the list are formed and no others." "only the words in the list are formed": does it mean the relative positions of the digits in the word must be preserved? And if the word is "451" ,are both "451" and "154" valid? |
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chaotic_iak
Posts: 241
Country : Indonesia | I'm pretty sure that you cannot reverse the words, just like in regular word placing puzzles (and in particular T for Trees, the inspiration for this variant) you cannot reverse the words. |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2014-09-04 2:57 PM mohanprashanth - 2014-09-04 2:40 PM
And if the word is "451" ,are both "451" and "154" valid?
No, '154' is not valid. The numbers should be formed either across (left-to-right ) or down (top-to-bottom ) in the standard crossword-style. |
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mohanprashanth
Posts: 14
Country : India | Thank you. |
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TiiT
Posts: 139
Country : Estonia | TiiT posted @ 2014-09-04 6:02 PM This ""Suction" stops when they hit the wall or a number >= the aspirator cell." sentence is confusing for me.
So, as I understand, it starts sucking at some point and goes clockwise (anticlockwise) until it hits greater or equal numbers or the wall and then stops even if there would be more smaller numbers on the way? Do we have to figure out by ourselves in which way it must go and where it starts? Although the example is totally confusing to understand that sentence.
Also the quiestion about diagonal path. Can the path turn direction if it hits the wall?
Tiit |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2014-09-04 6:37 PM TiiT - 2014-09-04 6:02 PM
Also the quiestion about diagonal path. Can the path turn direction if it hits the wall?
No, the path cannot turn if it hits a wall.
TiiT - 2014-09-04 6:02 PM
This ""Suction" stops when they hit the wall or a number >= the aspirator cell." sentence is confusing for me.
So, as I understand, it starts sucking at some point and goes clockwise (anticlockwise) until it hits greater or equal numbers or the wall and then stops even if there would be more smaller numbers on the way? Do we have to figure out by ourselves in which way it must go and where it starts? Although the example is totally confusing to understand that sentence.
There is no clockwise/anticlockwise. You need to look in the 8 directions from the marked cell.
Check these two examples below. See if you understand:  (Aspirator_sample.png)Attachments ----------------  Aspirator_sample.png (36KB - 7 downloads) |
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TiiT
Posts: 139
Country : Estonia | TiiT posted @ 2014-09-04 8:39 PM Oh, ok. Big thanks. I think I got it now. I was looking totally in the wrong direction. These images are good for explanation.
Tiit |
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TiiT
Posts: 139
Country : Estonia | TiiT posted @ 2014-09-04 8:49 PM Nikola - 2014-09-03 1:47 AM
swaroop2011 - 2014-09-02 1:01 AM
In Rolling the Dice Sudoku: The two adjacent shaded digits should be such that they are adjacent on the dice is implied right ?
Correct.
For me it's still unclear. So does the dice needs to be rolled exactly according to the numbers on the dice and the next number must be exactly adjacent digit of the dice according to where I roll it? Or does the next digit just needs to be any adjacent digit?
I hope my question is clear. Sorry, if it's a stupid question.
Tiit |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2014-09-04 9:12 PM TiiT - 2014-09-04 8:49 PM
Nikola - 2014-09-03 1:47 AM
swaroop2011 - 2014-09-02 1:01 AM
In Rolling the Dice Sudoku: The two adjacent shaded digits should be such that they are adjacent on the dice is implied right ?
Correct.
For me it's still unclear. So does the dice needs to be rolled exactly according to the numbers on the dice and the next number must be exactly adjacent digit of the dice according to where I roll it? Or does the next digit just needs to be any adjacent digit?
I hope my question is clear. Sorry, if it's a stupid question.
Tiit
Your statement "the dice needs to be rolled exactly according to the numbers on the dice and the next number must be exactly adjacent digit of the dice according to where I roll it" is CORRECT.
Try out these examples:
 (Dice_sample.png)Attachments ---------------- Dice_sample.png (16KB - 7 downloads) |
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devarajand
Posts: 114
Country : India | In rolling Dice Sudoku if the first letter is 6, then the adjacent letter should be
A. If on the same row can be 2,3,4,5 Except 1.
B . If the second letter was 4 then the row above must be 5.
Row below must be 2 if grayed.
Is it OK. |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2014-09-04 10:40 PM devarajand - 2014-09-04 9:42 PM
In rolling Dice Sudoku if the first letter is 6, then the adjacent letter should be
A. If on the same row can be 2,3,4,5 Except 1.
B . If the second letter was 4 then the row above must be 5.
Row below must be 2 if grayed.
Correct. |
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RALehrer
Posts: 31
Country : United States | Some more questions:
1. Podium: will each square be in at most one podium?
2. Dice: "One dice with numbers 1 to 6 is rolled along the grid". How far along the grid? Is this exactly one die, or could it be more than 1? For example, is it ever legal to have a 4 to the right of a 1, outside of the "path"? Could this be the entire path?
3. T: No other words must be formed - what does this mean?
4. Is the black and white sudoku a full example (not having tried it yet)?
Sometimes unclarities with rules are only evident when one attempts the puzzle. Will there be a location where we can ask rules questions in real-time?
Also, usually I only look at the IB once the test has started & sometimes have found that the Q&As are restricted...
Edited by RALehrer 2014-09-05 2:04 AM
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chaotic_iak
Posts: 241
Country : Indonesia | 2. I believe there will be a marked path of shaded squares, which will be your path; nothing is told about squares outside the path, and the path is not necessarily maximal (so the die can still be rolled outside the path and incidentally has the correct number). I'm not qualified to answer for the second, but if there are two separate paths then certainly there are two different dice.
3. Suppose you have two T's in adjacent boxes that are back-to-back, something like this:
..##..
######
..##..
Besides the horizontal 6-digit word and the two vertical 3-digit words, you also have two horizontal 2-digit words. If the word list doesn't specify any 2-digit words, you cannot have this formation, since you're making words not listed in the list. |
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Administrator
Country : India | RALehrer - 2014-09-05 1:51 AM
1. Podium: will each square be in at most one podium?
Yes.
RALehrer - 2014-09-05 1:51 AM
4. Is the black and white sudoku a full example (not having tried it yet)?
No
RALehrer - 2014-09-05 1:51 AM
Sometimes unclarities with rules are only evident when one attempts the puzzle. Will there be a location where we can ask rules questions in real-time?
Well, you can always ask in this forum. The problem is the organizers or author or test solvers or other players may not be available to answer your questions at that point. There is no others location (e.g. real time chat or something like that ) if you are thinking in that direction.
RALehrer - 2014-09-05 1:51 AM
Also, usually I only look at the IB once the test has started & sometimes have found that the Q&As are restricted... The forum is restricted because sometimes, after finishing the test players post too much information/feedback that shouldn't be read by players who have not taken the test. We will decide if we need to keep it unrestricted this time.
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Administrator
Country : India | chaotic_iak - 2014-09-05 3:26 AM
2. I believe there will be a marked path of shaded squares, which will be your path; nothing is told about squares outside the path, and the path is not necessarily maximal (so the die can still be rolled outside the path and incidentally has the correct number). I'm not qualified to answer for the second, but if there are two separate paths then certainly there are two different dice.
There will be exactly one path in the actual puzzle. |
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Nikola
Posts: 103
Country : Serbia | Nikola posted @ 2014-09-05 8:00 AM Thanks to all for the previous questions and especially for the answers. Some of these innovations will "survive" this contest, the other maybe not. Of course, there's plenty of room here for improvement. For example, in Aspirator Sudoku using the rays probably would be better than letters. Some names of sudokus are also subject to change. Diagonal Path Sudoku could be confusing name, but I didn't come up with a better title. We can call him Nikola's Sudoku . |
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RALehrer
Posts: 31
Country : United States | Thanks to all for the answers!
To quote: "Well, you can always ask in this forum. The problem is the organizers or author or test solvers or other players may not be available to answer your questions at that point. There is no others location (e.g. real time chat or something like that) if you are thinking in that direction."
This would be a good solution, but if it is restricted, one wouldn't be able to read the reply.
"The forum is restricted because sometimes, after finishing the test players post too much information/feedback that shouldn't be read by players who have not taken the test. We will decide if we need to keep it unrestricted this time."
Two threads (one for rules Q&A, one for other postings) would solve this problem.
Edited by RALehrer 2014-09-05 1:08 PM
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rvarun
Posts: 268
Country : India | rvarun posted @ 2014-09-05 3:05 PM Can someone explain rules of Black and White Sudoku. I am not able to understand it. If there is one solved example for each type, it would have been helpful. The rules can be atleast deduced from the example. Some sentences are complicated.
The below line is confusing.
Somewhere in the grid one digit 1, two digits 2, three digits 3, four digits 4, five digits 5, six digits 6, seven digits 7, eight digits 8 and nine digits 9 are blackened. |
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Administrator
Country : India | rvarun - 2014-09-05 3:05 PM
The below line is confusing.
Somewhere in the grid one digit 1, two digits 2, three digits 3, four digits 4, five digits 5, six digits 6, seven digits 7, eight digits 8 and nine digits 9 are blackened. There will be 45 shaded cells in the grid. In those 45 cells, you need to put nine 9s, eight 8s, seven 7s, ..., one 1.
(Alternatively, in the 36 white cells, you need to put eight 1s, seven 2s, six 3s, ...., one 8, and zero 9s ) |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2014-09-05 3:28 PM rvarun - 2014-09-05 3:05 PM
Can someone explain rules of Black and White Sudoku. I am not able to understand it. If there is one solved example for each type, it would have been helpful
Here you go:
 (BlackAndWhite_sample.png)Attachments ---------------- BlackAndWhite_sample.png (17KB - 11 downloads) |
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rvarun
Posts: 268
Country : India | rvarun posted @ 2014-09-05 6:46 PM Thanks guys for the explanation and example. With respect to T-Crossword Sudoku, I assume that all combinations of words that will fill up the 81 cells will be given. Can you explain the following line.
Within each bold-lined 3×3 square, the cells occupied by letters (numbers) must form a ”T” in any one of 4 possible orientations. --> How this T is determined. What must be the numbers forming this T.
One letter (number) is already placed, and all words must be used. --> Is it one number per T or one number per 3x3 or one number per word. |
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kishy72
Posts: 417
Country : India | kishy72 posted @ 2014-09-05 8:48 PM rvarun - 2014-09-05 6:46 PM
Can you explain the following line.
Within each bold-lined 3×3 square, the cells occupied by letters (numbers) must form a ”T” in any one of 4 possible orientations. --> How this T is determined.What must be the numbers forming this T. It is part of the solve to determine how the T is oriented.But just by looking at the example you can safely assume that this T is completely formed by numbers which are given outside the grid. One letter (number) is already placed, and all words must be used. --> Is it one number per T or one number per 3x3 or one number per word. It can be any of the 3.The deduction that you can arrive at by looking at the 5 which is given in the grid is that the T can be oriented in only 2 out of 4 possible ways.Because in the other 2 ways , 5 won't be a part of the T.The next logical question that you might ask is why should 5 be a part of T ?.Look at these sentences together and you will understand why "Within each bold-lined 3×3 square, the cells occupied by letters (numbers ) must form a ”T” in any one of 4 possible orientations.One letter (number ) is already placed" (It is implied that the one number which is already placed is part of the T ) If it helps,try reading this sentence in the IB "Within each bold-lined 3×3 square, the cells occupied by letters (numbers ) must form a ”T” in any one of 4 possible orientations" in this way--->"Within each bold-lined 3×3 square, the cells occupied by letters (numbers ) must form a ”T” comprising only of numbers or part of numbers given outside the grid (Read from left to right or top to bottom ) in any one of 4 possible orientations". |
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kishy72
Posts: 417
Country : India | kishy72 posted @ 2014-09-05 9:13 PM Rohan Rao - 2014-09-04 9:12 PM
TiiT - 2014-09-04 8:49 PM
Nikola - 2014-09-03 1:47 AM
swaroop2011 - 2014-09-02 1:01 AM
In Rolling the Dice Sudoku: The two adjacent shaded digits should be such that they are adjacent on the dice is implied right ?
Correct.
For me it's still unclear. So does the dice needs to be rolled exactly according to the numbers on the dice and the next number must be exactly adjacent digit of the dice according to where I roll it? Or does the next digit just needs to be any adjacent digit?
I hope my question is clear. Sorry, if it's a stupid question.
Tiit
Your statement "the dice needs to be rolled exactly according to the numbers on the dice and the next number must be exactly adjacent digit of the dice according to where I roll it" is CORRECT.
Try out these examples:
In the top left image, if the 5 is replaced by 2, is that valid?Similarly can I replace 2 by 5 in the bottom middle image and 5 to 2,1 to 6 ,2 to 5 in the bottom right image?
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2014-09-05 10:44 PM kishy72 - 2014-09-05 9:13 PM
In the top left image, if the 5 is replaced by 2, is that valid?
See the first two images (top-left and top-centre ). One has '5' and one has '2'. One is right and one is wrong. Maybe you should take an actual die and figure out why. |
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Administrator
Country : India |
Sudoku Day has started.
This thread will remain unrestricted during the test, so that questions from players, if any, can be answered quicker. Please note however that organizers / authors will not be available round-the-clock. It is best to ask the questions before you start the test than asking it after you start.
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RALehrer
Posts: 31
Country : United States | Thanks! I don't expect to be able to complete them all anyway, but it's makes me glad that there is at least a *hope* that I won't have to skip a puzzle that seems particularly fun just because I realize that I can't quite figure out the rules...
Administrator - 2014-09-06 5:44 PM
Sudoku Day has started.
This thread will remain unrestricted during the test, so that questions from players, if any, can be answered quicker. Please note however that organizers / authors will not be available round-the-clock. It is best to ask the questions before you start the test than asking it after you start.
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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kishy72
Posts: 417
Country : India | kishy72 posted @ 2014-09-06 1:11 PM
Maybe you should take an actual die and figure out why.
That's precisely what I tried doing, but unfortunately I did not have dice in my possession.That has been taken care of now by sticking numbers on the 6 faces of a cube! (which I had by the way ).The next instant I understood how this sudoku works.Thanks a lot Rohan!
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cooldude
Posts: 1
Country : India | Hi...I am new to this site..Can somebody guide me.... |
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prasanna16391
Posts: 1780
Country : India | cooldude - 2014-09-07 11:40 PM
Hi...I am new to this site..Can somebody guide me....
Read the F.A.Q. for a start. If you still have difficulty, feel free to let us know. |
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Avina
Posts: 1
Country : Iran | Avina posted @ 2014-09-09 2:26 PM Hello,
I can not submit, because I have not Password : LMIMT_M201409S_IB.pdf .
Please give me password.
Thank you
zaitoon |
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Lakshmi Dhaveji
Posts: 2
Country : India | Hello, I have entered the required details but am not able to start. How do I start the test
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Joo M.Y
Posts: 72
Country : South Korea | Joo M.Y posted @ 2014-09-10 9:34 AM Zaitoon - 2014-09-09 5:26 PM
Hello,
I can not submit, because I have not Password : LMIMT_M201409S_IB.pdf .
Please give me password.
Thank you
zaitoon
The test is now ended. So, I can tell you the password. (But you can't participate the test! )
PW: SUdoKu=9X9 |
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Nikola
Posts: 103
Country : Serbia | Nikola posted @ 2014-09-10 7:44 PM LMI September Sudoku Test - Sudoku Day 2014 is now over. 241 players participated, 160 non-zero scores.
Congratulations to deu (Hideaki Jo from Japan), Kota (Kota Morinishi from Japan) and Semax (Sebastian Matschke from Germany) for taking the top 3 places. There were several very hard new sudoku variants but deu and Kota managed to complete the test much before end of time.
I'd like to again thank my test solvers Goran Vodopija, Zoltan Horvath and Rohan Rao (he solved all 9 grids in 98 minutes).
Thank you all for participating. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I creating new variants and following the live results.
Edited by Nikola 2014-09-10 7:46 PM
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2014-09-10 8:11 PM debmohanty - 2014-09-01 4:31 PM
Nikola further suggested that the winner of this year's contest should be given the opportunity (or challenge ) to write the contest for next year
Nikola - 2014-09-10 7:44 PM
Congratulations to deu (Hideaki Jo from Japan), Kota (Kota Morinishi from Japan) and Semax (Sebastian Matschke from Germany) for taking the top 3 places
So, Hideaki can start planning for next year's Sudoku Day? :- ) |
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2014-09-11 12:50 AM Thanks for the very nice tournament.
It was fun to have a tournament with only new variations.
My strategy was to solve all sudokus in the order except T crossword which is too puzzlish for me.
I broke the second even product 2 times and had not enough time to try the T crossword during the tournament.
I already look forward to take part in the tournament next year 
Fred |
