Forsmarts 10th Anniversary Contest — 1st-3rd December
@ 2012-11-23 6:28 AM (#9010) (#9010) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2012-11-23 6:28 AM





@ 2012-11-23 6:34 AM (#9011 - in reply to #9010) (#9011) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2012-11-23 6:34 AM


Logic Masters India announces Forsmarts Xth Anniversary Contest

Author : Vladimir Portugalov

Dates : 1st - 3rd December

IB and Submission Link : here

Note : Although classified as annual contest, this will be included in monthly ratings.

@ 2012-11-24 1:23 AM (#9012 - in reply to #9010) (#9012) Top

Akuma21



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Akuma21 posted @ 2012-11-24 1:23 AM

Hi, last puzzle is only a classic sudoku? Why a diagonal is marked?
@ 2012-11-24 1:40 AM (#9013 - in reply to #9012) (#9013) Top

Para



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Para posted @ 2012-11-24 1:40 AM

Akuma21 - 2012-11-24 1:23 AM

Hi, last puzzle is only a classic sudoku? Why a diagonal is marked?


The grey cells will contain the digit X from the puzzle 1-9. Row 1 contains the digit encoded by X in puzzle 1. Row 2 will contain the digit encoded by X in puzzle 2. Same goes with Rows 3-9 and Puzzles 3-9. So it's not a "marked" diagonal.
All digits X from the top puzzles go in the top Sudoku. All digits X from the bottom puzzles, go in the bottom Sudoku.
It's all explained in the instruction booklet.
@ 2012-11-24 1:44 AM (#9014 - in reply to #9010) (#9014) Top

Para



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Para posted @ 2012-11-24 1:44 AM

One question:
Does each puzzle solve independently or is the X-clue influenced by digits it can't be because of the last Sudoku?
@ 2012-11-24 3:25 AM (#9015 - in reply to #9014) (#9015) Top

forsmarts



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forsmarts posted @ 2012-11-24 3:25 AM

Para - 2012-11-24 1:44 AM

One question:
Does each puzzle solve independently or is the X-clue influenced by digits it can't be because of the last Sudoku?


You can try to use the possibilities for Xs from Sudoku, but it's not mandatory as all the puzzles 1-9 are solvable independently.

Edited by forsmarts 2012-11-24 3:46 AM
@ 2012-11-25 4:14 AM (#9016 - in reply to #9010) (#9016) Top

prasanna16391



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prasanna16391 posted @ 2012-11-25 4:14 AM

I'll have to be extra careful in this one with the 3 separate answer keys. I think if rows/columns are rightly placed one can safely assume that the decryption has been done correctly, especially since the solver knows that part may be required later.
@ 2012-11-25 10:54 PM (#9017 - in reply to #9010) (#9017) Top

forsmarts



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forsmarts posted @ 2012-11-25 10:54 PM

Prasanna,
"Cryptic sequence" is rarely more than 5 digits long, so you can treat it as the "feature" of this test, not taking much time and attention. But the rows/columns will surely need all your attention, I really don't want to take away any points in case of mistypes, but I'll have to. Also I'd like to remind everyone to pay double attention to which row/column you're describing, last year there were surprisingly lot of entrances of the wrong rows/columns.

Edited by forsmarts 2012-11-25 10:57 PM
@ 2012-11-25 11:12 PM (#9018 - in reply to #9017) (#9018) Top

prasanna16391



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prasanna16391 posted @ 2012-11-25 11:12 PM

forsmarts - 2012-11-25 10:54 PM

Prasanna,
"Cryptic sequence" is rarely more than 5 digits long, so you can treat it as the "feature" of this test, not taking much time and attention. But the rows/columns will surely need all your attention, I really don't want to take away any points in case of mistypes, but I'll have to. Also I'd like to remind everyone to pay double attention to which row/column you're describing, last year there were surprisingly lot of entrances of the wrong rows/columns.


Sorry, just to confirm again. I think its a wrong way to interpret this if I feel you'll be lenient on the Cryptic Sequence aspect of the key, as long as the rows/columns part is correct?
@ 2012-11-26 12:04 AM (#9019 - in reply to #9010) (#9019) Top

forsmarts



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forsmarts posted @ 2012-11-26 12:04 AM

I expect all the keys to be correct in order to get the points, as always. Whether I decide to satisfy the "claim points" appeal when the "cryptic sequence" is wrong - depends on each individual case, but I wouldn't count on it :)
@ 2012-11-26 9:51 AM (#9020 - in reply to #9019) (#9020) Top

tamz29



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tamz29 posted @ 2012-11-26 9:51 AM

Is it a rule that the cryptic has to be numbers from 1-N?
Like All-Seeing Snake, number set is not consecutive.
But in Minesweepers, number set is consecutive from 1-N.

Also, can the cryptic be one of the givens?
In Thermometers, 1 is given and is not in the cryptic.
In Four Winds, 2 is given and is not in the cryptic.
Is this a coincidence or a rule?

@ 2012-11-26 2:40 PM (#9022 - in reply to #9020) (#9022) Top

forsmarts



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forsmarts posted @ 2012-11-26 2:40 PM


Is it a rule that the cryptic has to be numbers from 1-N?
Like All-Seeing Snake, number set is not consecutive.
But in Minesweepers, number set is consecutive from 1-N.


Hidden numbers can be from a range 0-N, not necessary consecutive as can be seen from All-seeing Snake example.


Also, can the cryptic be one of the givens?
In Thermometers, 1 is given and is not in the cryptic.
In Four Winds, 2 is given and is not in the cryptic.
Is this a coincidence or a rule?


It is a coincidence, don't drop any possibilities based on the givens.
@ 2012-11-26 4:27 PM (#9023 - in reply to #9010) (#9023) Top

alberto



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alberto posted @ 2012-11-26 4:27 PM

A question about number 0.
In some puzzles (sudoku difference, futoshiki, all-seeing snake, abc-box, classic sudoku) it' obvious that a 0 cannot appear.
In other puzzles (slither link, minesweeper) it's possible and very probably it will be.
But in first seen coral, thermometers and four winds? Usually, it doesn't, but can you confirm all my interpretations?

Thanks

Alberto
@ 2012-11-27 2:44 AM (#9024 - in reply to #9023) (#9024) Top

forsmarts



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forsmarts posted @ 2012-11-27 2:44 AM

alberto - 2012-11-26 4:27 PM
A question about number 0.
In some puzzles (sudoku difference, futoshiki, all-seeing snake, abc-box, classic sudoku) it' obvious that a 0 cannot appear.
In other puzzles (slither link, minesweeper) it's possible and very probably it will be.
But in first seen coral, thermometers and four winds? Usually, it doesn't, but can you confirm all my interpretations?

I agree with your observations. In common: where it's natural for zero to appear among the givens - you should take this option into account.
@ 2012-11-27 5:51 PM (#9025 - in reply to #9010) (#9025) Top

Kota



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Kota posted @ 2012-11-27 5:51 PM

I think this set will be as difficult as till last year...
BTW, in the example answer of Sudoku Difference, R3C2(5) is wrong. it must be 4.
@ 2012-11-27 6:14 PM (#9026 - in reply to #9025) (#9026) Top

forsmarts



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forsmarts posted @ 2012-11-27 6:14 PM

Kota - 2012-11-27 5:51 PM
I think this set will be as difficult as till last year...

It won't be easy, you're right :) But I've tried to make it easier than last year.

BTW, in the example answer of Sudoku Difference, R3C2(5) is wrong. it must be 4.

Sorry for that mistype.
@ 2012-11-29 11:11 PM (#9032 - in reply to #9010) (#9032) Top

sanket.saxena



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sanket.saxena posted @ 2012-11-29 11:11 PM

Is this competition available in online mode ???
@ 2012-11-30 2:10 AM (#9033 - in reply to #9032) (#9033) Top

prasanna16391



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prasanna16391 posted @ 2012-11-30 2:10 AM

sanket.saxena - 2012-11-29 11:11 PM

Is this competition available in online mode ???


There will be no online solving for this test.
@ 2012-12-01 5:31 PM (#9037 - in reply to #9010) (#9037) Top

David McNeill



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David McNeill posted @ 2012-12-01 5:31 PM

In the thermometers example puzzle, a 1 is given as an outside clue. Is it just coincidence that none of the letters stands for a 1?
@ 2012-12-01 5:34 PM (#9038 - in reply to #9037) (#9038) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2012-12-01 5:34 PM

David McNeill - 2012-12-01 5:31 PM

In the thermometers example puzzle, a 1 is given as an outside clue. Is it just coincidence that none of the letters stands for a 1?
Just a coincidence, as mentioned above in this thread.
@ 2012-12-02 1:17 AM (#9039 - in reply to #9010) (#9039) Top

rob



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rob posted @ 2012-12-02 1:17 AM

So... I had a lot of trouble finding a logical approach to many of the puzzles on this test, and am a little unsure whether I just failed there, or whether trial and error is how you're meant to go. Particularly since some puzzles (the Futoshiki and ABC-Box puzzles, say) had a nice solution path.

Thanks for making the test regardless.
@ 2012-12-02 5:02 AM (#9040 - in reply to #9010) (#9040) Top

FoxFireX




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FoxFireX posted @ 2012-12-02 5:02 AM

Out of curiosity, what changed in the puzzle booklet? It looks like a new one was uploaded while I was working on the puzzles. (Did better than I expected; from the IB, this was pretty intimidating, and most of the puzzles were just as confounding as I expected.)
@ 2012-12-02 5:59 AM (#9042 - in reply to #9010) (#9042) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2012-12-02 5:59 AM

Slitherlink top had multiple solutions (because of which Classic Sudoku top also had multiple solutions). This was fixed in the puzzle booklet.
Players who had started before the fixed booklet uploaded will get points for submitting any of the correct solutions.

(I thought I posted this in forum, but it looks like I just typed it, and may be closed my browser.)
@ 2012-12-02 6:28 AM (#9043 - in reply to #9042) (#9043) Top

FoxFireX




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FoxFireX posted @ 2012-12-02 6:28 AM

Hah. Maybe that explains why it seemed unusually easy for me. :)
@ 2012-12-02 9:15 AM (#9046 - in reply to #9010) (#9046) Top

ksun48



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ksun48 posted @ 2012-12-02 9:15 AM

can the letters be 0?
@ 2012-12-02 9:32 AM (#9047 - in reply to #9046) (#9047) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2012-12-02 9:32 AM

ksun48 - 2012-12-02 9:15 AM

can the letters be 0?

Depends upon the puzzle. They can represent 0 in puzzle like Slitherlink.
They cannot be 0 in puzzle like all-seeing snake.

Please check this post and Vladimir's reply too.
@ 2012-12-02 2:22 PM (#9048 - in reply to #9047) (#9048) Top

Nikola



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Nikola posted @ 2012-12-02 2:22 PM

Happy jubilee, Vladimir!

Very nice puzzles! I had a bad start and with one mistake I could not finish the first sudoku. It took me another 50 minutes to complete the test.

Nikola
@ 2012-12-02 2:34 PM (#9049 - in reply to #9010) (#9049) Top

chaotic_iak




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chaotic_iak posted @ 2012-12-02 2:34 PM

So it's a hard test for me. First submission in 50 minutes or something, that's after a first go looking at all and failed to find the solution. I started to go trial and error (or look ahead?) and it worked pretty nicely for 8 puzzles (the rest I didn't have time :P ).

Nice test though. If Fillomino Cipher had appeared, I would probably solve those right away, but it seems like people are sick of Fillomino after FF2 :P
@ 2012-12-02 11:08 PM (#9050 - in reply to #9010) (#9050) Top

alberto



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alberto posted @ 2012-12-02 11:08 PM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? A bit hard
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Just right
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2012-12-03 10:27 AM (#9051 - in reply to #9010) (#9051) Top

RALehrer



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RALehrer posted @ 2012-12-03 10:27 AM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Too few pages / too small grids


@ 2012-12-03 11:02 AM (#9052 - in reply to #9010) (#9052) Top

chaotic_iak




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chaotic_iak posted @ 2012-12-03 11:02 AM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? A bit hard
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Average
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Way too many puzzles (too little time)
 How fair do you think the rankings were? All players got the score they deserved
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2012-12-03 1:01 PM (#9053 - in reply to #9010) (#9053) Top

prasanna16391



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prasanna16391 posted @ 2012-12-03 1:01 PM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? A bit skewed
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? A bit hard
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 How fair do you think the rankings were? Most players got the score they deserved
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2012-12-03 8:45 PM (#9057 - in reply to #9010) (#9057) Top

xevs



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xevs posted @ 2012-12-03 8:45 PM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Perfectly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? A bit hard
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? A bit too many puzzles
 How fair do you think the rankings were? Most players got the score they deserved
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2012-12-04 5:10 AM (#9058 - in reply to #9010) (#9058) Top

Realshaggy



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Realshaggy posted @ 2012-12-04 5:10 AM

 How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? Fairly balanced
 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Average
 How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? Way too many puzzles (too little time)
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2012-12-04 2:37 PM (#9065 - in reply to #9010) (#9065) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2012-12-04 2:37 PM

@ 2012-12-04 2:55 PM (#9066 - in reply to #9010) (#9066) Top

forsmarts



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forsmarts posted @ 2012-12-04 2:55 PM

The test is over. Thanks to all the puzzlers for participation! Special thanks to Nikola for the congratulations :)

TOP 3:
1. Kota Morinishi (JAP)
2. Hideaki Jo (JAP)
3. Palmer Mebane (USA)

It was a very impressive performance from Kota, with just the bottom All-seeing snake unsolved. Congratulations!

Some statistics:

- The puzzle solved by least competitors (aside from Classic Sudokus) was the same bottom All-seeing snake. It was solved by 12 competitors.
- The puzzle solved by most competitors was top Four winds. It was solved by 89 competitors.
- The puzzle with the highest rating was bottom Futoshiki (8.83) and the puzzle with the lowest rating (again aside from Classic Sudokus) was top Sudoku difference (6.62), which is pity as it was the first puzzle I've created for this set and it led to the whole thing :)
- The puzzles submitted with the highest/lowest accuracy were the Classic Sudokus - top (100%, 3 out of 3) and bottom (40%, 4 out of 10)

I'm sorry for the fact that broken Slitherlink puzzles appeared in the original booklet (had multiple solutions, all the solutions aside from the intended ones were accepted) and we had to upload the new booklet during the contest. I believe it had no significant impact on the table of results.

See you next year or even earlier :)

All the best,
Vladimir
@ 2012-12-04 8:50 PM (#9067 - in reply to #9010) (#9067) Top

debmohanty




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debmohanty posted @ 2012-12-04 8:50 PM

Congratulations Kota for the very impressive win. That makes it 2 in 2 months.