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Administrator
   
Country : India | |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Sudoku Types in Prime Exotica: | DNA SudokuMultiTab SudokuPoker SudokuQuad SudokuTennisdoku | | Kid SudokuNumerologidokuPrime Number SudokuRhombus Sudoku | | Kombinance SudokuPeephole SudokuProduct SudokuRossini Sudoku |
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neerajmehrotra
Posts: 328
Country : India | As per IB The sum of all corresponding numbers in the two strands is 10. But I think 10 is not possible in case of 6X6 grid............please confirm. |
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-01-13 5:40 PM neerajmehrotra - 2011-01-13 5:24 PM
As per IB The sum of all corresponding numbers in the two strands is 10. But I think 10 is not possible in case of 6X6 grid............please confirm.
I think Rakesh forgot to mention that for the DNA sudoku, 6*6 grid in the booklet: The sum of all corresponding numbers in the two strands is 6.
For tournament grid, sum is 10 but for IB grid, sum is 6 
Fred |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Fred76 - 2011-01-13 5:40 PM neerajmehrotra - 2011-01-13 5:24 PMAs per IB The sum of all corresponding numbers in the two strands is 10. But I think 10 is not possible in case of 6X6 grid............please confirm. I think Rakesh forgot to mention that for the DNA sudoku, 6*6 grid in the booklet: The sum of all corresponding numbers in the two strands is 6.For tournament grid, sum is 10 but for IB grid, sum is 6 Fred Thanks Fred. A few things which got missed in the IB. This is only for the examples: - For DNA sudoku, the sum of corresponding cells is 6. - For Kid Sudoku, the kid cannot count or add beyond 6. - For Quad sudoku, 6 and 1 are considered consecutive. - For Poker Sudoku, there are only 2 hand types. For the actual grids, the given rules in the IB apply. |
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Calavera
Posts: 13
Country : Germany | I've spotted a small mistake in the example for the KID Sudoku: One of the 3s in the 5th row must be a 5. Haven't solved it yet so I'm not sure which.
Also I'm not completely sure about the MULTITAB Sudoku: Is the three digit number in a cage always on the right/bottom? And is the one digit number always to the left/top of the two digit number? |
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David McNeill
Posts: 63
Country : United Kingdom | Rakesh,
Looks like a great puzzle set. The clue for the 5th row in Kid Sudoku should be 46353. Will the strands in DNA Sudoku cross each other? If so, it would be helpful to make the colours more easily distinguishable on a black and white printer. I assume that the prime numbers in Prime Number Sudoku will not necessarily be of 3 digits. Loved your 2011 fact.
Thank you,
David McNeill. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Calavera - 2011-01-13 8:10 PMI've spotted a small mistake in the example for the KID Sudoku: One of the 3s in the 5th row must be a 5. Haven't solved it yet so I'm not sure which. You are right. It is 46353. Also I'm not completely sure about the MULTITAB Sudoku: Is the three digit number in a cage always on the right/bottom? Yes. And is the one digit number always to the left/top of the two digit number? Not necessarily. There will be one 1-digit number and one 2-digit number, whose product will be a 3-digit number. From the grid it will be clear which comes first - the 2-digit number or the 1-digit number. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | David McNeill - 2011-01-13 8:18 PM
Will the strands in DNA Sudoku cross each other? No. I assume that the prime numbers in Prime Number Sudoku will not necessarily be of 3 digits. You are right. The prime numbers can be of any length from 1 to 9. : ) |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Updated IB based on comments above is now available for download. |
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caudmont
Posts: 18
Country : France | DNA : would the sum of cell A in orange strand and the same cell A in blue strand equal 10 ?
Thanks
Edited by caudmont 2011-01-14 2:21 AM
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | caudmont - 2011-01-14 2:20 AM
DNA : would the sum of cell A in orange strand and the same cell A in blue strand equal 10 ? That is a good question. I would repeat the relevant portion of the rules: " The sum of all corresponding numbers in the two strands is 10 (6 in the example)." - I hope you would have got your answer. |
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tamz29
Posts: 225
Country : Thailand | tamz29 posted @ 2011-01-14 10:19 AM Hi
Looks like a wonderful test. I value presentation almost as much as the puzzle quality and this one may very well be the first to have both.
Hopefully, I come back on Sunday night in time for it.
Well done. |
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utkaarsh
Posts: 89
Country : India | Rakesh, very very creative set of puzzles, with my limited knowledge, i found these the best & most innovative ones, very excited for this one |
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caudmont
Posts: 18
Country : France | rakesh_rai - 2011-01-14 9:47 AM
caudmont - 2011-01-14 2:20 AM
DNA : would the sum of cell A in orange strand and the same cell A in blue strand equal 10 ? That is a good question. I would repeat the relevant portion of the rules: " The sum of all corresponding numbers in the two strands is 10 (6 in the example)." - I hope you would have got your answer.
Thanks |
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akash.doulani
Posts: 157
Country : India | one question regarding tennisdoku. in a situation where the set is given as 1:0 , does the first number have to be greater than the second one or it could be both ways ? |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | akash.doulani - 2011-01-14 5:59 PMone question regarding tennisdoku. in a situation where the set is given as 1:0 , does the first number have to be greater than the second one or it could be both ways ? Thanks for asking this question, Akash. In a "x:y" situation, x is the number of sets won and y is the number of sets lost. So, a "1:0" means 1 set won and 0 sets lost. And a set can be won in many ways: 6-1, 6-2, 6-3, 6-4, 7-5, 7-6, 8-6 and 9-7. so the two cells in question will have one of these "final scores". To answer your question precisely, the answer is Yes. For a "1:0" situation, the first number has to be greater than the second one. I hope this helps clarify your doubt. |
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purifire
Posts: 460
Country : India | Very Interesting sudokus... nice twists Rakesh... Looking forward to the test.... : )
ps. Thanks for letting me know my numerological number 
Rishi |
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akash.doulani
Posts: 157
Country : India | will the clues(i.e the numbers that appear in each type ) be given for poker sudoku or we will have to find out the numbers ourselves? |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | akash.doulani - 2011-01-14 8:25 PM
will the clues(i.e the numbers that appear in each type ) be given for poker sudoku or we will have to find out the numbers ourselves? Akash: This is mentioned clearly in the IB. " The repeating number in three of a kind/ four of a kind will be given. For full house, two numbers will be given, one of which will form a “pair” and the other will represent “three of a kind”. For Two pair, again two numbers will be given, both of which will form “pair”. For sequence, the first and last number will be given as clues." So you do not have to find out the numbers. With the given clues, you'll probably need to find out which hand type will be on which line. |
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Para
Posts: 315
Country : The Netherlands | Para posted @ 2011-01-16 3:32 AM For Prime Number sudoku, are we provided with a list of prime numbers made up of different digits? Because to be honest I don't know all prime numbers by head between 1 and 9 digits (I don't even know them past 2 digits), or be able to figure out if for example 7142957 (which is) or 7148563(which isn't) is a prime or not on the spot. Becaused the file I found to confirm if these numbers were or weren't, contains 1 million numbers. And I don't exactly feel like sorting through it to filter out all primes that only contain different digits, just for the sake of being able to solve the sudoku. |
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purifire
Posts: 460
Country : India | In the Numerologidoku, can the resultant number be flipped. as in example you mentioned that when I add up the letters I get 63. So is only 63 to be used or it can be flipped to 36?
Rishi |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | purifire - 2011-01-16 12:02 PM
In the Numerologidoku, can the resultant number be flipped. as in example you mentioned that when I add up the letters I get 63. So is only 63 to be used or it can be flipped to 36? Rishi: Flipping is not allowed. (also because this is not the FLIP LMI Test ) As mentioned in the IB, All “clue numbers” in the shaded cells read from left to right. - without flipping. So, if one of the clues is RISHI, we'll have to fill 63 in two consecutive shaded cells in the same row, reading left to right. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Para: I was expecting this query and I'm glad you asked it. Para - 2011-01-16 3:32 AM
For Prime Number sudoku, are we provided with a list of prime numbers made up of different digits? No. Because to be honest I don't know all prime numbers by head between 1 and 9 digits (I don't even know them past 2 digits), or be able to figure out if for example 7142957 (which is) or 7148563(which isn't) is a prime or not on the spot. Because the file I found to confirm if these numbers were or weren't, contains 1 million numbers. From the IB: " ...prime numbers are like life. They are very logical but you could never work out the rules, even if you spend all your time thinking about them." Anyway, Prime Exotica is not a test of memory. So its perfectly alright if you do not remember a list of prime numbers. However, there are a few basic techniques to find out if a number is not a prime number (for example, one such link is here). You may like to go through these once. And I don't exactly feel like sorting through it to filter out all primes that only contain different digits, just for the sake of being able to solve the sudoku. I agree with you. This is not needed anyway. In my opinion, if you approach the puzzle with an open mind and only basic knowledge of prime numbers, you should be able to solve it. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | A feature being tried out this time is that of "anonymous ratings". On the score page, the average rating and number of solvers who rated will still be visible. But A cannot see ratings given by B (and vice-versa ). |
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muralik7
Posts: 10
Country : India | Rakesh, the moment I started reading first word of IB, it was very much involving and extremely interesting till the end. With my limited exposure to different kinds of puzzles/sudokus, I find these very interesting. Finishing touch (Tennisdoku) is superb. Coincidentally I read this on the day Australian Open began :). Looking forward for the test. |
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neerajmehrotra
Posts: 328
Country : India | I agree murali....... this is going to be one of the most interesting sudoku test...............looking forward for the weekend. |
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neerajmehrotra
Posts: 328
Country : India | Para - 2011-01-16 3:32 AM
For Prime Number sudoku, are we provided with a list of prime numbers made up of different digits? Because to be honest I don't know all prime numbers by head between 1 and 9 digits (I don't even know them past 2 digits), or be able to figure out if for example 7142957 (which is) or 7148563(which isn't) is a prime or not on the spot. Becaused the file I found to confirm if these numbers were or weren't, contains 1 million numbers. And I don't exactly feel like sorting through it to filter out all primes that only contain different digits, just for the sake of being able to solve the sudoku.
The list of first 500 prime numbers is here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_numbers
Hope this will be sufficient to solve the puzzle. |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | The points for grids are rough indicators of the difficulty level of the grid. However, your experience can vary. For every sudoku grid, exactly 10 cells are marked as answer key. I do hope that you find time to take and enjoy the test over the weekend. In case of any issues during the test, you can send PM/mail to me.  (pe.jpg)Attachments ----------------  pe.jpg (43KB - 3 downloads) |
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Tejal Phatak
Posts: 81
Country : India | Really good set of puzzles..... Had a great time solving them!
I personally liked DNA Sudoku best but unfortunately could not submit the answer to it because of lack of few seconds...
Kombinance and Kid were enjoyable too...
Thanks for the test Rakesh, got to solve some new and really good variants! :) |
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Neeraj
Posts: 12
Country : India | Neeraj posted @ 2011-01-22 2:34 PM hey i guess mine "Poker Sudoku" solution is correct.
it says the solution is wrong.could you check it.
and ya in "Product Sudoku" i forgot to write 2 numbers in a hurry.
can't i get partial marking for that?? 
because of that my 2 solutions are given wrong  |
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Neeraj
Posts: 12
Country : India | Neeraj posted @ 2011-01-22 2:58 PM i am not able to view the scores of other people who have completed the test. Edited by rakesh_rai
Removed some explicit references to puzzle grids |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Neeraj: All sudoku grids are correct. There are no missing numbers or images in any grid. Also, request you to discuss specific queries on any grids after the test. |
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Administrator
Country : India | Neeraj - 2011-01-22 2:34 PM
hey i guess mine "Poker Sudoku" solution is correct.
it says the solution is wrong.could you check it.
and ya in "Product Sudoku" i forgot to write 2 numbers in a hurry.
can't i get partial marking for that??
because of that my 2 solutions are given wrong
Neeraj: Your poker sudoku solution is incorrect. In product sudoku, you were very close - in fact, you missed entering only one digit in the answer key. Sorry to say that we cannot award any partial marks.
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Administrator
Country : India | Neeraj - 2011-01-22 2:58 PM
i am not able to view the scores of other people who have completed the test. You should be able to view your results after you complete the test. |
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Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | Thanks for this nice test Rakesh. I must admit that I wasn't completely enthousiast about some of the puzzles, which rules did not seem very interesting to me, but you exploited them well and I really had pleasure today.
Only 10 puzzles solved out on 13 because of, as usual, lots of mistakes - and also a printing problem. But no big deal, I came for fun and fun was there.
See you all on next LMI test,
Bastien |
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aldentea
Posts: 10
Country : Japan | At the example of KID sudoku, should the clue of 4th row be 5664(instead of 5655)? |
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-01-22 7:25 PM aldentea - 2011-01-22 7:09 PM
At the example of KID sudoku, should the clue of 4th row be 5664(instead of 5655)?
I think you're right, little mistake in the IB... |
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giagiax
Posts: 1
Country : ITALY | giagiax posted @ 2011-01-22 7:27 PM help!!!! la password?????????? |
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rajeshk
Posts: 542
Country : India | rajeshk posted @ 2011-01-22 7:40 PM aldentea - 2011-01-22 7:09 PM
At the example of KID sudoku, should the clue of 4th row be 5664(instead of 5655)?
I also think that 4th row clue should be 5664
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Administrator
Country : India | rajeshk - 2011-01-22 7:40 PM aldentea - 2011-01-22 7:09 PM
At the example of KID sudoku, should the clue of 4th row be 5664(instead of 5655)? I also think that 4th row clue should be 5664 aldentea, rajeshk: You are absolutely right! The kid made a mistake |
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Administrator
Country : India | giagiax - 2011-01-22 7:27 PM
help!!!! la password??????????
the password will be displayed on the test page after you login and start the test. |
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DreamRose311
Posts: 24
Country : United States | I thought something was wrong with the online part, so I wasted the time downloading and opening the pdf to check and also see there were no errors. I thought the puzzle may have been messed up. Otherwise, very fun competition as always! Edited by rakesh_rai
Removed some explicit references to puzzle grids |
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purifire
Posts: 460
Country : India | Great set of puzzles Rakesh... enjoyed them a lot .... :) |
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Administrator
Country : India | DreamRose311 - 2011-01-23 12:50 AM
I thought something was wrong with the online part, so I wasted the time downloading and opening the pdf to check and also see there were no errors. I thought the puzzle may have been messed up.
Otherwise, very fun competition as always!
As mentioned earlier, there is no missing number or image in any sudoku grid. Please discuss any grid specific queries after the test is over, or send a PM to the Author. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Tejal Phatak - 2011-01-22 2:18 PM
Really good set of puzzles..... Had a great time solving them!
...
Thanks for the test Rakesh, got to solve some new and really good variants! :)
Ours brun - 2011-01-22 6:20 PM
Thanks for this nice test Rakesh....I really had pleasure today...I came for fun and fun was there
DreamRose311 - 2011-01-23 12:50 AM
...Otherwise, very fun competition as always!
purifire - 2011-01-23 12:59 AM
Great set of puzzles Rakesh... enjoyed them a lot .... :)
Thanks for taking the test and glad you enjoyed it !!! |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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bothrasumit
Posts: 43
Country : India | Thanx Rakesh... amazing set of puzzles... had gr8 fun... quite tricky...
And made some silly mistake in understanding t
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neerajmehrotra
Posts: 328
Country : India | Really a grt set of puzzles, some of the puzzles really puzzled the brain...........
and nice to see sumit bothra back............ |
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radekivv
Posts: 13
Country : United States |
Does it mean that it will be possible to solve the puzzles till Monday? It still shows on the submisison page that the puzzles have to be submitted by Sunday evening (U.S. Central time ). Thanks, Radek |
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Administrator
Country : India | radekivv - 2011-01-23 3:10 PM
Does it mean that it will be possible to solve the puzzles till Monday? It still shows on the submisison page that the puzzles have to be submitted by Sunday evening (U.S. Central time). Thanks, Radek
Yes, it is possible to solve till 24-Jan-2011 11:59:59 PM GMT
Changed the timings accordingly in the submission page. |
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channa
Posts: 7
Country : India | channa posted @ 2011-01-23 3:22 PM hey... It was nicely prepared. Edited by rakesh_rai
Removed some explicit references to puzzle grids |
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tamz29
Posts: 225
Country : Thailand | tamz29 posted @ 2011-01-23 9:42 PM Firstly, congratulations on the puzzle set, I like the presentation a lot.
Secondly, while I was entering solutions - the grids came up with 'try again' when I clicked 'show cells to fill' - hence, I had to type all numbers in since I was solving on paper - luckily, this restored when I had about 15 minutes left. Any ideas what happened?
Thirdly, I re-checked the Numerologidoku and still can't figure out where I went wrong.
Great puzzles, a superb debut from Rakesh. Congratulations once again.
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Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | I already completed the test so, if you want, I can take a look at your solution and try to spot the mistake. Just send it to me by e-mail.
Bastien |
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debmohanty
Country : India | tamz29 - 2011-01-23 9:42 PM
Thirdly, I re-checked the Numerologidoku and still can't figure out where I went wrong.
Sent you the solution |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | bothrasumit - 2011-01-23 2:25 PM
Thanx Rakesh... amazing set of puzzles... had gr8 fun... quite tricky... neerajmehrotra - 2011-01-23 2:39 PM
Really a grt set of puzzles, some of the puzzles really puzzled the brain... channa - 2011-01-23 3:22 PM
hey... It was nicely prepared. tamz29 - 2011-01-23 9:42 PM
Firstly, congratulations on the puzzle set, I like the presentation a lot...Great puzzles, a superb debut from Rakesh. Congratulations once again. Thanks for participating and for your kind words. |
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Akuma21
Posts: 22
Country : ITALY | Akuma21 posted @ 2011-01-24 12:31 AM Fantastic set of sudokus! Great job Rakesh! |
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Ziti
Posts: 42
Country : United States | Ziti posted @ 2011-01-24 4:14 AM LMI always puts together such clever and fun puzzle competitions, and Rakesh continued the tradition with a thoroughly enjoyable puzzle set. Kudos to all responsible for this competition.
And I'm happy to say I only typed one number in wrong!! :) |
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purifire
Posts: 460
Country : India | Ziti - 2011-01-24 4:14 AM
LMI always puts together such clever and fun puzzle competitions, and Rakesh continued the tradition with a thoroughly enjoyable puzzle set. Kudos to all responsible for this competition.
And I'm happy to say I only typed one number in wrong!! :)
Welcome to the group Jason... Im there with you on mistyping :D
Rishi |
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TroyS
Posts: 6
Country : United States | TroyS posted @ 2011-01-24 10:26 AM Was the password XX characters?
Edited by debmohanty
Removed the exact number of characters
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debmohanty
Country : India | Yes, the password was that long.
I removed the exact number of characters since the test is still on. |
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TroyS
Posts: 6
Country : United States | TroyS posted @ 2011-01-24 10:50 AM I don't think my adobe reader can input a password that long. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | TroyS - 2011-01-24 10:50 AM
I don't think my adobe reader can input a password that long. That is pretty strange. Nobody reported the problem so far. Which version of reader do you have? (and which OS? ) |
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knehren
Posts: 4
Country : ITALY | knehren posted @ 2011-01-24 1:47 PM I work for a website which would like to post the results of the competition. When will results be available to the public?
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debmohanty
Country : India | knehren - 2011-01-24 1:47 PM
I work for a website which would like to post the results of the competition. When will results be available to the public?
Results will be out immediately after the test is over (i.e. at 1/24/2011 11:59:59 PM GMT )
Approximately 16 hours from now
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bothrasumit
Posts: 43
Country : India | I loved the trickiness in the rossini sudoku.. during the comp i thot its a mistake... but i read administrator's comments stressing that all the puzzles are correct ...When are the results expected?? Edited by rakesh_rai
Removed some explicit references to puzzle grids |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | bothrasumit - 2011-01-25 12:34 AM
When are the results expected?? 5.30am Tuesday IST |
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Administrator
Country : India | Results are available now here |
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RJH0723
Posts: 13
Country : United States | RJH0723 posted @ 2011-01-25 5:40 AM Great test Rakesh!! All variants thoroughally enjoyable.
Just wondering, how did u guys approach the multitab sudoku? |
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Administrator
Country : India | Prime Exotica is over -
Congratulations to motris, David, deu and don3232.
motris finished well ahead of time getting huge bonus.
David played exceptionally well too.
deu and don3232 finished in just about the time.
Out of 186 players, 144 players got non-zero scores.
Out of 42 Indian players, the familiar names did better - Rishi, Rohan and Amit.
Congratulations to all, and thank you once again for your continued support and participation at LMI.
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Fred76
Posts: 337
Country : Switzerland | Fred76 posted @ 2011-01-25 5:57 AM All participants whose number of points is not a prime number are disqualified !!!
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Fred76 - 2011-01-25 5:57 AM
All participants whose number of points is not a prime number are disqualified !!! Do you mean the "Top 9" are all disqualified !!! |
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debmohanty
Country : India | Rakesh - well done. Excellent set of sudokus, fittingly rewarded by huge participation and good feedback.
Difficult to believe that it was your first attempt.
When will you update the Sudoku Ratings? |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | There were 13 (a prime number) "nick of time" finishers - those who sent in a correct answer in the last minute. And the winners here are:
1. 100:58 skywalker
2. 100:51 Nikola
3. 100:37 Kota |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | debmohanty - 2011-01-25 9:08 AM
When will you update the Sudoku Ratings? Very soon |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Neeraj, DreamRose311, channa, bothrasumit: I had to edit your earlier posts because you had mentioned about the "no arrows" in Rossini on the forum. The grid was planned that way, but many solvers felt there was some mistake or missing arrows. Looking back, I think I should have put an explicit comment on the grid that "there are no arrows in this grid". That would have helped avoid the confusion. |
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zhergan
Posts: 32
Country : Turkey | zhergan posted @ 2011-01-25 11:24 AM Hi Rakesh,
That was very nice set of sudokus with new variants and it was really
enjoyable to deal with them  .  again to you, LMI and all
contributors for this event. And I'm not agree with you
for your last comment about Rossini. Because there was a clear
expression like "If there is no double arrow outside a
row/column, the nearest 3 digits CANNOT be in either
ascending or descending order." in the instructions and it
was really a good surprise to see that there were no double
arrows given for the grid  . And I think there had been a smile
on the faces of solvers who dealt with it. So I think adding a
phrase like "there are no arrows in this grid" was no necessary
and spoil that effect. That's what I'm  about that issue.
Regards,
Zafer |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Akuma21 - 2011-01-24 12:31 AM
Fantastic set of sudokus! Great job Rakesh! Ziti - 2011-01-24 4:14 AM
LMI always puts together such clever and fun puzzle competitions, and Rakesh continued the tradition with a thoroughly enjoyable puzzle set. Kudos to all responsible for this competition. RJH0723 - 2011-01-25 5:40 AM
Great test Rakesh!! All variants thoroughally enjoyable. debmohanty - 2011-01-25 9:08 AM
Rakesh - well done. Excellent set of sudokus, fittingly rewarded by huge participation and good feedback. zhergan - 2011-01-25 11:24 AM That was very nice set of sudokus with new variants and it was reallyenjoyable to deal with them . again to you, LMI and allcontributors for this event. Thanks all for your feedback. I am happy with the good participation level in this test (186 players from 35 countries ), much more than I was expecting. Also, special thanks to many solvers who returned to LMI after some gap, notable among them being WaterlooMathie, drsteve and mackokajka. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Also, Fred did a very good job of testing the puzzles and eliminating some multiple solution cases.
I was worried about the timing for the test - whether it was correct. In the end, it seems that I got it right. Many top solvers were able to finish 12 puzzles and were on the verge of finishing the 13th, and except for motris and purifire (who had a very good chance to come first in this test), the others almost finished on time.
The median score in this test was 164, and average number of puzzles solved was 5.04. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | RJH0723 - 2011-01-25 5:40 AM
Just wondering, how did u guys approach the multitab sudoku? Can any of you who solved this share your approach? |
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Nikola
Posts: 103
Country : Serbia | Nikola posted @ 2011-01-25 1:20 PM Lovely set of the puzzles. Great job, Rakesh! I prefer concept of DNA sudoku with a lot of clues. I took a wrong conclusion in numerologidoku grid and then I little lost a rhythm.
Congrats to all toppers!
Nikola |
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purifire
Posts: 460
Country : India | rakesh_rai - 2011-01-25 12:27 PM
RJH0723 - 2011-01-25 5:40 AM
Just wondering, how did u guys approach the multitab sudoku? Can any of you who solved this share your approach?
I can share my thoughts.... To begin with, I had a "cheat sheet" with all possible multiplication options with unique digits.... once that was ready I saw the 4 numbers at the vertices of the puzzle grid.... 5 at R1C1, 6 at R1C9, 9 at R9C1 and 4 at R9C9. This made me realise that the 4 and 5 form a pair and so do 6 and 9. any combination of multiplication options having 4 and 5 together and any combination having 6 and 9 together can be eliminated since they would go against normal sudoku rule. For example take the following option "7 x 94 = 658". take the pair of 4 and 5. since the number 5 is there in this option, it cannot be in the multitab in R1 or C1 and since 4 is also there in the option, it can neither be in R9 or C9. Hence this option can be eliminated. Similarly if any option had 6 and 9 that also got eliminated because of the same rule. Hence the list of options got significantly reduced to begin with. then from the rest we could eliminate more based on other numbers present in the grid. I am attaching the "cheat sheet" for better understanding.
I know its not a good method since we wont have any such sheets in a offline contest but since it was online and no mention of not using any "prepared" tools, i took the liberty of using this. That is precisely why I call it a "Cheat Sheet"
Rishi Attachments ---------------- (0KB - 0 downloads) |
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David McNeill
Posts: 63
Country : United Kingdom | For the record, I had prepared a list as well. I didn't have Rishi's lovely 45, 69 insight. However, it didn't take too long to find the options which fitted. About the same length of time as it took for my printer to print out the test. There are 2 options missing from Rishi's list i.e 4x39=156 and 7x52=364. Just as well these weren't needed!
Enjoyed the contest very much. Thanks Rakesh and LMI. I also must confess to having a list of primes and the possible combinations of 4 digits totalling 17, which makes me a triple cheat!
David McNeill. |
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purifire
Posts: 460
Country : India | David McNeill - 2011-01-25 2:29 PM
For the record, I had prepared a list as well. I didn't have Rishi's lovely 45, 69 insight. However, it didn't take too long to find the options which fitted. About the same length of time as it took for my printer to print out the test. There are 2 options missing from Rishi's list i.e 4x39=156 and 7x52=364. Just as well these weren't needed!
Enjoyed the contest very much. Thanks Rakesh and LMI. I also must confess to having a list of primes and the possible combinations of 4 digits totalling 17, which makes me a triple cheat!
David McNeill.
Thanks David, I too had the list of primes with me... I just didnt have the combinations of 17 ready
Rishi |
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RJH0723
Posts: 13
Country : United States | RJH0723 posted @ 2011-01-25 8:04 PM Thx guys! I attempted it again with the list, and got it right away. I should try "cheat sheeting" next time. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Since we are discussing cheat sheets, another candidate was numerologidoku. An excel worksheet can easily save 3-4 minutes of calculation time - converting the names into clue numbers. Did anyone use this cheat sheet too? |
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akash.doulani
Posts: 157
Country : India | this was the puzzle where i had got stuck at the end. got it wrong somewhere and after 7 min realised that i had goofed up . and then in our locality people are celebrating netaji's birhday and republic day . and so the local club turned on loudspeakers . the loudspeakers are still on and will be on till tomorrow. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Those who forgot to rate the puzzles or did not have time during the test can still rate the puzzles by visiting the test link. |
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drsteve
Posts: 12
Country : United Kingdom | drsteve posted @ 2011-01-25 9:35 PM rakesh_rai - 2011-01-25 3:13 PM
Since we are discussing cheat sheets, another candidate was numerologidoku. An excel worksheet can easily save 3-4 minutes of calculation time - converting the names into clue numbers. Did anyone use this cheat sheet too?
I thought this would be a step too far - too much like using a calculator for the product sudoku. I went into the test with WPC rules in my head - anything written down was OK, but actually using a computer to speed up calculations would be frowned upon. |
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motris
Posts: 199
Country : United States | motris posted @ 2011-01-25 9:59 PM Wow. This forum went crazy in just the few short hours I was asleep. Now people are comparing (and posting) their cheat sheets to see who was better prepared? Seriously?
I personally disliked most of the puzzles that seemed to require extra/outside knowledge. Numerologidoku, for example, had no extra value to me for doing the addition. The puzzle itself solved fine once you had the sums, but I didn't feel doing the math added much value to the experience. In just the case of Kombinance, where the 9 groups should be obvious from the example (I saw no other way to finish that example than to make the connection of total # of groups), do I think - in accord with off-line tests - that "notes" were appropriate to bring in. But then my personal feelings aren't relevant so much as the author's goals and the test instructions themselves. There, no guidance was given - on the use of a calculator or a spreadsheet or printed notes. And the prime list link in the forum wasn't removed or turned away so as to say "do not bring such a thing into a test". So I think after the test it is worth a reevaluation of what the ground rules are for such a test and what should/should not be allowed. That, or simply choose puzzles that don't need extra information that doesn't add a lot of value. My favorite puzzles in this test, like the Rossini, simply solved as beautiful sudoku. |
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channa
Posts: 7
Country : India | channa posted @ 2011-01-25 10:01 PM @ Rakesh
Hehe..dint realise that...this is first time i am attempting..thot prob with software or something...BTW, nice puzzleset...ruing the fact that i couldn't stumble upon this website long before....
How many ppl actually rote this test?? .. Edited by channa 2011-01-25 10:02 PM
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | RJH0723 - 2011-01-25 5:40 AM
Just wondering, how did u guys approach the multitab sudoku? Thanks Rishi and David for sharing your approach. Here's the approach which I had intended. Of course, there could be better and quicker approaches. But this is what I had thought of. Do let me know if any step is not clear. Diagram A: One out of R9C4, R9C5 and R9C6 has to be a 1. And the first two cannot be a 1. So R9C6=1. Then R2C4, R1C8, and R5C9 also must be 1. Now in C1 and C5, there are two possibilities for 1 in R4 and R6. We must realize that R4C1 cannot be 1 as then we cannot get a three digit number after multiplication. So R6C1 and R4C5 are 1s. Diagram B: Lets consider the last row. 2 must be one of the cells R9C4 or R9C5. This means R9C8 must be 6 (it cannot be 8 ). As we got 1 and 6 in the three digit number, it is not difficult to find the remaining numbers. Diagram C: Now look at the last column. 5 goes into R6C9. Again, as we have got two numbers in the three digit number, the rest is easy to get. Diagram D: R6C2=2. In column 1, 7 can be only in R4C1 (it cannot be in R3C1, because then multiplication will fail ), which means R3C1=2, and the rest of column 1 falls through.After that, its normal sudoku rules and the top row also falls through.  (multitab.png)Attachments ---------------- multitab.png (54KB - 2 downloads) |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | channa - 2011-01-25 10:01 PM@ RakeshHehe..dint realise that...this is first time i am attempting..thot prob with software or something...BTW, nice puzzleset...ruing the fact that i couldn't stumble upon this website long before.... How many ppl actually rote this test?? .. I think you meant "wrote". 186 people started the test and 144 submitted at least one correct answer. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | motris - 2011-01-25 9:59 PM
Now people are comparing (and posting) their cheat sheets to see who was better prepared? Congratulations for finishing 1st in the test, and thanks for your detailed feedback. I don't think better preparation is wrong. But the use of cheat sheets - probably not fair - let the individuals decide. Since (this time ) it was not explicitly mentioned that x or y cannot be used, they were not wrong. I think this is one positive aspect from this test - in future, we may need to firm up the rules on this aspect as well, not just the puzzles. I personally disliked most of the puzzles that seemed to require extra/outside knowledge. However, in my opinion, there were no such puzzles which required extra/outside knowhow. All knowledge needed was in the instructions. Some basic rules for prime numbers, multiplication, addition was all that was needed. Numerologidoku, for example, had no extra value to me for doing the addition. The puzzle itself solved fine once you had the sums, but I didn't feel doing the math added much value to the experience. OK. Perhaps, that part could have been avoided ...And the prime list link in the forum wasn't removed or turned away so as to say "do not bring such a thing into a test". The puzzle was not much dependent on a list - It was easily solvable without needing that list, and probably faster too. And, thanks for sharing your personal feelings. While solving, as you rightly mentioned, they may be less relevant than the test instructions, but definitely they can provide us with concrete ideas for improvements in future. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | drsteve - 2011-01-25 9:35 PM rakesh_rai - 2011-01-25 3:13 PMSince we are discussing cheat sheets, another candidate was numerologidoku. An excel worksheet can easily save 3-4 minutes of calculation time - converting the names into clue numbers. Did anyone use this cheat sheet too? I thought this would be a step too far - too much like using a calculator for the product sudoku... Exactly. This was meant to be a  comment. |
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debmohanty
Country : India | rakesh_rai - 2011-01-26 1:12 AM
motris - 2011-01-25 9:59 PM
Now people are comparing (and posting) their cheat sheets to see who was better prepared? Congratulations for finishing 1st in the test, and thanks for your detailed feedback. I don't think better preparation is wrong. But the use of cheat sheets - let the individuals decide. Since (this time ) it was not explicitly mentioned that x or y cannot be used, they were not wrong. I think this is one positive aspect from this test - in future, we may need to firm up the rules on this aspect as well, not just the puzzles.
I'm not sure if we should leave it to individuals to decide. The problem is that "not everyone gets same amount of time to prepare for the test".
This is no national / world championship, so we can't blame players for not spending enough time for preparing.
The simplest solution, copied from motris's post, is to "Choose puzzles that don't need extra information that doesn't add a lot of value" |
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vopani
Posts: 739
Country : India | vopani posted @ 2011-01-26 10:14 AM Wow! I had prepared a 'cheat sheet' for Numerologidoku where just entering the alphabets gets you the sum directly in excel (just like Rakesh mentioned).
The irony is, I did not use the sheet with the view of feeling guilty later on ;-) I mean, something made me feel unfair, so I calculated the sums manually. Best part is, I made a mistake in calculating one sum. And I was lucky enough to find out the error quickly.
I too agree that such puzzles should be avoided or the extra information should be given. |
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zalak
Posts: 23
Country : India | zalak posted @ 2011-01-26 3:12 PM Rakesh, thanks for such a wonderful test, I thoroughly enjoyed all the puzzles. I couldnt solve them during the test but I tried them after the test.. I must say I was stumped by the Rossini, and got the logic just as I had some 2 minutes left, but in the end, it did make me smile.. beautiful logic!
Well, about the cheat sheets, I wanted to make one for Kombinance, Multitab, Numerologidoku and Prime number but somehow was not convinced about doing that.. thought it would only be fair to take the test like it was an offline test. But since it was not mentioned in the rules, it was rightly left to the individuals.. But from next time onwards, it would be good to either mention that in the rules or give the clues, so all the participants are at the same level.. |
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | Nikola - 2011-01-25 1:20 PM
Lovely set of the puzzles. Great job, Rakesh! I prefer concept of DNA sudoku with a lot of clues. David McNeill - 2011-01-25 2:29 PM
Enjoyed the contest very much. Thanks Rakesh and LMI. channa - 2011-01-25 10:01 PM BTW, nice puzzleset...ruing the fact that i couldn't stumble upon this website long before.... zalak - 2011-01-26 3:12 PM
Rakesh, thanks for such a wonderful test, I thoroughly enjoyed all the puzzles... I must say I was stumped by the Rossini, and got the logic just as I had some 2 minutes left, but in the end, it did make me smile.. beautiful logic! |
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Administrator
Country : India | rakesh_rai - 2011-01-17 11:43 AM
A feature being tried out this time is that of "anonymous ratings". On the score page, the average rating and number of solvers who rated will still be visible. But A cannot see ratings given by B (and vice-versa ).
It could just be a coincidence, but this test got maximum number of ratings per puzzle since the introduction of ratings in mock13.
On an average, each puzzle received 14.77 number of ratings in this test.
Here is how puzzles in other tests (top 5 listed ) were rated.
14.77 | Prime Exotica
14.56 | Sudoku Mock Test 15
12.44 | EverGreens II
12.27 | 20/10 Puzzle Decathlon
12.17 | Master Mind Twins
Although ratings are not the most important thing in a test, we would like to believe that most players like the ratings this way (i.e. to be anonymous ) and we would continue this in future tests.
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Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | rakesh_rai
motris
I personally disliked most of the puzzles that seemed to require extra/outside knowledge.
However, in my opinion, there were no such puzzles which required extra/outside knowhow. All knowledge needed was in the instructions. Some basic rules for prime numbers, multiplication, addition was all that was needed.
I agree with motris; as Rakesh said, in the current case all puzzles were solvable without outside help. However, in some cases, "cheat sheets" could certainly allow to save a non-negligeable amount of time ; this, I dislike. But it is not really a specificity of this particular test ; when solving killer sudoku, using a sheet with all the possible combinations of digits can also prove useful - and lots of people use such a sheet every time they solve a killer sudoku. The important point for me is to clearly mention what is allowed, and what isn't (the ideal being for me : "no exterior help, of any kind, is allowed" ).
rakesh_rai
motris
...And the prime list link in the forum wasn't removed or turned away so as to say "do not bring such a thing into a test".
The puzzle was not much dependent on a list - It was easily solvable without needing that list, and probably faster too.
Which is why I liked the puzzle, despite being primarily reticent to the idea. No need to know - or search for - big primes to solve it. By the way, nice job on this particular puzzle.
rakesh_rai (concerning multitab sudoku)
Here's the approach which I had intended. Of course, there could be better and quicker approaches. But this is what I had thought of.
I solved this puzzle once the competition was over, and did nearly exactly the way you did. |
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lucarabino
Posts: 1
Country : ITALY | Hi. I found that ROSSINI and TENNISDOKU were not able to be solved, because in ROSSINI double arrows were not visible and in TENNISDOKU only few scores were visible (in application and in the pdf). Why??? How could be solved by the winners? |
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Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | Hi,
In both cases you need to be very careful about the sentence beginning like this : "If there is no..."
To be clear : on rossini sudoku, there are no arrows because, on this particular puzzle, digits are never in strictly ascending or descending order. This is a very useful information.
On tennisdoku, where there isn't a tennis ball the score can't be one of a tennis match. For example, if there is no ball touching a "4", there can't be a "6" in the adjacent cells.
Does it help you ? |
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Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | A few more help, if needed :
! SPOILER !
Let's have a look at Rossini sudoku :
There is no arrow at the right of 5th row. This means that the 3 corresponding digits cannot be in either ascending or descending order. We already have 5>1 so the cell located between those two must contain a digit which is either smaller than 1 (impossible) or bigger than 5. This digit has to be 8...
Now look at Tennisdoku :
The 5th row is again particularly useful. 2, 6, 8 and 9 remain to be placed. There is a ball touching the 3; the only possible score with a 3 is 6-3, so let's put a 6 in R5C2.
Then : on the left edge of this cell, there is no ball. So, R5C1 and R5C2 (6) cannot form a valid score. 2, 8 and 9 remain to be placed. 2-6 would be a valid score, as well as 8-6. So, there must be a 9 in R5C1...
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rakesh_rai
Posts: 774
Country : India | lucarabino - 2011-01-27 7:09 PM
...in TENNISDOKU only few scores were visible (in application and in the pdf)... Thanks Ours brun. lucarabino: Yes. In Tennisdoku (as also in Kid sudoku ), all scores were not given as clues, as then it would have become too easy. But the grid was solvable with the given clues as the tennis balls provided enough hints. And 59 solvers did solve it. |
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Administrator
Country : India | |
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Ours brun
Posts: 148
Country : France | Thanks for having modified my post, I didn't know that there was a "spoiler tag". |