Object Placement & Pentomino - 17th to 20th Mar 2017 - Puzzle Ramayan & IPC Qualifier
@ 2017-03-12 9:16 AM (#22657) (#22657) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2017-03-12 9:16 AM





Link for rules and other details about Puzzle Ramayan : http://logicmastersindia.com/PR/2016-17PR.asp
Instructions for Object Placement & Pentomino - Link

@ 2017-03-13 6:44 PM (#22664 - in reply to #22657) (#22664) Top

Administrator



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Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2017-03-13 6:44 PM


Logic Masters India announces Object Placement & Pentomino - third episode of Puzzle Ramayan 2016-17

Dates : 17th - 20th March

Instruction Booklet & Submission : Link

Author : Nikola Zivanovic & Cedomir Milanovic

@ 2017-03-14 8:42 AM (#22669 - in reply to #22664) (#22669) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2017-03-14 8:42 AM

Puzzles 1-11 will be based on battleships, akari and minesweeper.

For puzzles 12-22, some of the puzzles will be based on tetrominos and others will be based on pentominos. The polyomino shapes (as applicable) will be provided for each of these puzzles in the PB. The Instruction Booklet examples are based on tetrominos.
@ 2017-03-16 3:15 PM (#22674 - in reply to #22657) (#22674) Top

Administrator



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Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2017-03-16 3:15 PM

Updated IB available (v2)


Instruction Booklet & Submission : Link

The following updates are included in this version:
1. Points Table is added.
2. "Pentomino" replaced with "Tetromino/pentomino"

@ 2017-03-16 3:16 PM (#22675 - in reply to #22657) (#22675) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2017-03-16 3:16 PM

Points Table




@ 2017-03-16 6:03 PM (#22676 - in reply to #22657) (#22676) Top

David McNeill



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David McNeill posted @ 2017-03-16 6:03 PM

Will both Instructionless Battleships puzzles have the same rules? Same question for the two Instructionless Tetromino/Pentomino puzzles.
@ 2017-03-16 11:25 PM (#22677 - in reply to #22657) (#22677) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2017-03-16 11:25 PM

yes
@ 2017-03-16 11:32 PM (#22678 - in reply to #22657) (#22678) Top

prasanna16391



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prasanna16391 posted @ 2017-03-16 11:32 PM

Contest start postponed

Due to some technical difficulties in the submission page, the contest is postponed by 8 hours and 30 minutes and will start at 8 AM IST (2:30 AM GMT). We apologize for any inconvenience caused by this.


@ 2017-03-17 8:08 AM (#22679 - in reply to #22678) (#22679) Top

Administrator



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Administrator posted @ 2017-03-17 8:08 AM

The test has started.
@ 2017-03-17 9:00 PM (#22682 - in reply to #22657) (#22682) Top

Grizix



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Grizix posted @ 2017-03-17 9:00 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Tetromino/Pentomino Instructionless
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Really didn't like the answer keys for Akari and Minesweeper. It's quite hard to count the objects on large grids, and it take quite some time.
@ 2017-03-17 9:29 PM (#22683 - in reply to #22657) (#22683) Top

greenhorn



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greenhorn posted @ 2017-03-17 9:29 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Hungarian Tetromino/Pentomino
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Wow, that was really hard... I enjoy solving all the puzzles, but from my point of view, this was not suitable for beginners.
@ 2017-03-18 2:54 AM (#22684 - in reply to #22657) (#22684) Top

rob



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rob posted @ 2017-03-18 2:54 AM

Wow, indeed, that was (too) hard. I had to resort to quite guessy solving for quite a few of these, certainly not the difficulty I'm used to for Ramayan. For me it was still a fun contest, just not what I expected.

I'm not that happy with the instructionless battleships puzzle, though: It's really not that apparent that the relations should apply to "half rows", while you'd usually expect them to apply to the two cells that are immediately adjacent.

Worse, the example is uniquely solvable with the given solution with the following rules: Normal battleships. Equals sign between cells means both cells are filled or both are empty. Less than sign between cells means that if the "smaller" cell is filled, then also the "greater" cell must be filled.

Admittedly this is not quite a satisfying rule set, but it's close enough that I think the type needs a better example.
@ 2017-03-18 9:46 AM (#22685 - in reply to #22657) (#22685) Top

Eykir



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Country : United States

Eykir posted @ 2017-03-18 9:46 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Hungarian Tetromino/Pentomino
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2017-03-18 1:13 PM (#22686 - in reply to #22657) (#22686) Top

Swagatam



Posts: 45
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Swagatam posted @ 2017-03-18 1:13 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth too much or too little


@ 2017-03-18 9:31 PM (#22687 - in reply to #22657) (#22687) Top

TheGreatEscaper



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Country : Australia

TheGreatEscaper posted @ 2017-03-18 9:31 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Tetromino/Pentomino Instructionless
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


This was really fun, this was the first test I've taken on this site. I think I managed to do fairly well, although obviously there were people doing miles better than I was! The puzzles were really fun, and had very nice solving paths. Super enjoyable, I'll be a regular from now on!
@ 2017-03-18 11:52 PM (#22688 - in reply to #22657) (#22688) Top

TiiT



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TiiT posted @ 2017-03-18 11:52 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Tetromino/Pentomino Instructionless
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2017-03-19 1:11 AM (#22689 - in reply to #22657) (#22689) Top

tamz29



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tamz29 posted @ 2017-03-19 1:11 AM

Definitely harder than the previous two PR's.
I would recommend something else as answer keys for Minesweepers and Akari.
Counting mines each row in a big grid (which was worth like 2 points was quite irking).
Maybe, count 3-4 rows/columns instead?

I enjoyed the pentomino section a lot, the second instructionless was very beautiful - although I was 30 seconds too late to submit it :(
@ 2017-03-19 3:55 AM (#22690 - in reply to #22657) (#22690) Top

kiwijam



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kiwijam posted @ 2017-03-19 3:55 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Tetromino/Pentomino Instructionless
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


An excellent set of puzzles. My thanks to Nikola Zivanovic and Cedomir Milanovic, you made me happy today. :)
@ 2017-03-19 6:00 AM (#22691 - in reply to #22657) (#22691) Top

bob



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bob posted @ 2017-03-19 6:00 AM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Average
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Tetromino/Pentomino Instructionless
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


I found many of the puzzles extremely difficult/impossible and am quite discouraged. Battleships--lots of trial and error. Instructionless didn't understand. I get that a ship middle is greater than a ship end and that ship ends are greater than water. But some ship ends are greater than other ship ends?? Minesweeper 3 (worth 2 points) I checked SIX times and I still don't see where I went wrong, lots of time wasted. The first tetromino placement I fumbled around with for some time--these seem largely intuition based. Some solvers can "see" how the pieces fall into place, I guess. I certainly can't. No time for anything else. Maybe time to try a different hobby.
@ 2017-03-19 5:49 PM (#22692 - in reply to #22657) (#22692) Top

skywalker



Posts: 42
2020
Country : Serbia

skywalker posted @ 2017-03-19 5:49 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many medium difficult puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Hungarian Tetromino/Pentomino
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2017-03-19 8:16 PM (#22693 - in reply to #22657) (#22693) Top

kishy72



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kishy72 posted @ 2017-03-19 8:16 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Below Average
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Minesweeper
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2017-03-19 9:08 PM (#22694 - in reply to #22657) (#22694) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2017-03-19 9:08 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Hungarian Tetromino/Pentomino
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Many puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? I have a different complaint


Thanks for a nice test.

One complaint with the puzzle booklet:
I'm using Ubuntu and answer grids for Instructionless examples were not printed while visible at the screen. Other grids are printed normally. I don't think this affected my perfomance significantly, but was definitely annoying.
@ 2017-03-19 10:37 PM (#22695 - in reply to #22657) (#22695) Top

WA1729




Posts: 60
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WA1729 posted @ 2017-03-19 10:37 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Tetromino/Pentomino Observer
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Very nice! I loved the variations in this one. My favorite sets were the Hungarian Polyomino and Polyomino Observer puzzles.

Favorite Puzzles:

Pentomino Observer 3
Classic Tetromino 1
Akari 2
Tetromino Observer 2
Hungarian Tetromino 1

Thank you!
@ 2017-03-20 11:44 AM (#22696 - in reply to #22657) (#22696) Top

mikeylyk



Posts: 16

Country : United States

mikeylyk posted @ 2017-03-20 11:44 AM

im taking test now, there is no abc labels on tetromino observer, what order do letters go?
@ 2017-03-20 11:54 AM (#22697 - in reply to #22657) (#22697) Top

Administrator



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Country : India

Administrator posted @ 2017-03-20 11:54 AM

Enter the rows first, from top to bottom. Then columns from left to right.
@ 2017-03-20 3:24 PM (#22698 - in reply to #22657) (#22698) Top

swaroop2011




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swaroop2011 posted @ 2017-03-20 3:24 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Battleships Instructionless
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Very nice set of puzzles. But felt too many hard puzzles considering the spirit of PR.
Need to solve yet remaining ones. Mostly the high pointers left.
I liked the Instructionless Ideas.
@ 2017-03-20 3:44 PM (#22699 - in reply to #22657) (#22699) Top

forcolin




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forcolin posted @ 2017-03-20 3:44 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Tetromino/Pentomino Instructionless
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2017-03-20 6:31 PM (#22700 - in reply to #22657) (#22700) Top

rajeshk




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rajeshk posted @ 2017-03-20 6:31 PM

I liked the theme of Minesweepers and Akari where Pentominos are used :)

Edited by rajeshk 2017-03-20 6:31 PM
@ 2017-03-20 8:45 PM (#22701 - in reply to #22657) (#22701) Top

vopani



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vopani posted @ 2017-03-20 8:45 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Tetromino/Pentomino Observer
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


Too hard for PR. Would have been a nice monthly test otherwise.
@ 2017-03-21 6:42 AM (#22702 - in reply to #22657) (#22702) Top

RameshLMI



Posts: 51
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Country : India

RameshLMI posted @ 2017-03-21 6:42 AM

Puzzles were harder than previous PR round. I too felt that the answer keys for Akari and Minesweeper were lengthy. However, I enjoyed solving Minesweeper and Akari puzzles.
@ 2017-03-21 1:38 PM (#22703 - in reply to #22657) (#22703) Top

RameshLMI



Posts: 51
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RameshLMI posted @ 2017-03-21 1:38 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many hard puzzles
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Minesweeper
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Answer keys could have been better


@ 2017-03-21 4:34 PM (#22704 - in reply to #22657) (#22704) Top

Joo M.Y



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Joo M.Y posted @ 2017-03-21 4:34 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Tetromino/Pentomino Instructionless
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2017-03-21 6:05 PM (#22705 - in reply to #22657) (#22705) Top

An LMI player



An LMI player posted @ 2017-03-21 6:05 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Too many medium difficult puzzles
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Fairly Nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Hungarian Tetromino/Pentomino
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Many puzzles were worth too much or too little
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


@ 2017-03-21 9:10 PM (#22706 - in reply to #22705) (#22706) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2017-03-21 9:10 PM

The object placement round was hard in 2016 and it ended up on the harder side in 2017 as well. The results also look similar - The top 3 (among those who participated, from last year's list) are the same as well.

And, yes, the answer keys for akari and minesweeper do need improvement.
@ 2017-03-21 9:17 PM (#22707 - in reply to #22684) (#22707) Top

rakesh_rai




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rakesh_rai posted @ 2017-03-21 9:17 PM

rob - 2017-03-18 2:54 AM

...Worse, the example is uniquely solvable with the given solution with the following rules: Normal battleships. Equals sign between cells means both cells are filled or both are empty. Less than sign between cells means that if the "smaller" cell is filled, then also the "greater" cell must be filled.
That sounds more "thermo" than "inequality".

For me, the example was good enough and since all the signs were placed in the centre row/column, it was quite apparent that the inequality relation applies to the two vertical/horizontal halves.
@ 2017-03-21 9:50 PM (#22708 - in reply to #22707) (#22708) Top

greenhorn



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greenhorn posted @ 2017-03-21 9:50 PM

rakesh_rai - 2017-03-21 9:17 PM

For me, the example was good enough and since all the signs were placed in the centre row/column, it was quite apparent that the inequality relation applies to the two vertical/horizontal halves.


Agree, the example was fine. However I get confused by the Observer instructions. I am probably to lazy to read (or understand) the rules carefully, but it took me few minutes to realize that the numbers are always excluding the cell itself. I am not sure whether it is usual or not, but most of the puzzles like Cave or Kuromasu operate with "including" rule. I can not see any reason why to change the rules from time to time.

Anyway, this test was great and even though I was disappointed by my performance, I really enjoyed solving the puzzles. Just after the test, I am quite surprised by my ranking. I would never guess, that incomplete solution may lead to 11th position. However the difficulty of tests within a series should be more balanced in the future.
@ 2017-03-21 10:23 PM (#22709 - in reply to #22708) (#22709) Top

chaotic_iak




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chaotic_iak posted @ 2017-03-21 10:23 PM

greenhorn - 2017-03-22 12:50 AM

I get confused by the Observer instructions. I am probably to lazy to read (or understand) the rules carefully, but it took me few minutes to realize that the numbers are always excluding the cell itself. I am not sure whether it is usual or not, but most of the puzzles like Cave or Kuromasu operate with "including" rule. I can not see any reason why to change the rules from time to time.


Some puzzles (I can't remember which ones; I think Doors is one, but I know there are more) normally don't count the cell itself. Different genres develop differently.
@ 2017-03-21 10:25 PM (#22710 - in reply to #22707) (#22710) Top

chaotic_iak




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chaotic_iak posted @ 2017-03-21 10:25 PM

rakesh_rai - 2017-03-22 12:17 AM

rob - 2017-03-18 2:54 AM

...Worse, the example is uniquely solvable with the given solution with the following rules: Normal battleships. Equals sign between cells means both cells are filled or both are empty. Less than sign between cells means that if the "smaller" cell is filled, then also the "greater" cell must be filled.
That sounds more "thermo" than "inequality".

For me, the example was good enough and since all the signs were placed in the centre row/column, it was quite apparent that the inequality relation applies to the two vertical/horizontal halves.


That's the problem with instructionless puzzles; when the variant idea gets unusual enough, it might be easier to come up with other unrelated rules. I would have just used the inequality signs on the row/column numbers to make it clear.
@ 2017-03-22 5:05 AM (#22711 - in reply to #22657) (#22711) Top

mstang




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mstang posted @ 2017-03-22 5:05 AM

Why not a simple one-per-column extraction for Akari and Minesweeper (one circle in each column, then write O for bulb/mine, X for none)?
@ 2017-03-22 6:09 AM (#22712 - in reply to #22711) (#22712) Top

Nikola



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Nikola posted @ 2017-03-22 6:09 AM

Congratulations to the top solvers and thank you all for your participation, feedback and comments. We know that test wasn't so easy for beginners, even if it is solvable for the best players in almost an hour.
@ 2017-03-22 8:05 PM (#22713 - in reply to #22657) (#22713) Top

natapi



Posts: 2

Country : Thailand

natapi posted @ 2017-03-22 8:05 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Average
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Minesweeper
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right


I have enter the answer correctly, but the score isn't shown up
@ 2017-03-23 12:31 PM (#22714 - in reply to #22657) (#22714) Top

ABcDexter



Posts: 47
2020
Country : India

ABcDexter posted @ 2017-03-23 12:31 PM

 What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? Just right
 What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? Very nice
 Which set of puzzles did you like the most? Minesweeper
 What was your opinion about the answer key extraction? Mostly perfect answer keys
 Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did the point values reflect the difficulty? Most puzzles were worth the right amount
 What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? Just right